England vs Chile Match Thread

[rooney]

Our lads played as well as all the others. Chile were just too quick for us in all positions that had us struggling at times.

[scotty]

Our lads played as well as all the others. Chile were just too quick for us in all positions that had us struggling at times.

 

Agreed. It was obviously an experimental side and formation for Hodgson to assess different players. I dont think J-Rod did badly given the position he was crowbarred into, and Adam did really well. I'd expect him to start against germany, and would hope Jay would get on at some stage in his natural position. Also worth mentioning how good Chile were, really fluent movement and passing, and clinical going forward. Very impressive, and great to watch.

[Lord Duckhunter]

After watching JRod isolated on the left side of the field last night I've got the words of Pochettino's left hand man ringing in my ears (sorry, his bane escapes me at the moment).... "Our forwards don't play IN positions, they play FROM positions"

 

Last night, it was clear to me that Hodgson had instructed JRod to play IN a specific position, which is not how he plays for his club.

 

It highlights the difference between how Adkins and Pochettino utilise(d) JRod. He struggled somewhat under Adkins but has flourished under Pochettino's more fluid approach.

 

Spot on.

 

Had Rickie been playing they still would not have played like they do for Saints because Woy will have detailed them to hold their position. It would have been straight lines, Rickie down the middle, Adam on the right and JRod down the left. The two things that make our system so successful are the fluidity going forward , but also the pressing which is done in a controlled and coached manner. Rooney was just tearing around with no discipline, Lampard and Wilshire seemed incapable of performing the Victor/MS roles. The Victor/Morgan roles are "unsung" type of roles, lots of hard work and lots of giving the ball to the front 3 to produce the magic. People like Wilshire and Lampard want to be the hero, want to play the superstar. The only guy in that England regular midfield (and I include Steve G) who could play in our side is Milner. He has the work rate and the tactical ability to do his job. He gets a lot of clog on here, but he will do as much of the water carrying as the Manager asks of him. Blokes like Lampard and Steve G want to spray Hollywood balls around all the time. I lost count of the number of times we won the ball back last night only for Wilshire , Lampard or one of the back 4 to give it straight back to them.

 

Woy needs to be true to himself, he is a dour defensive coach who is trying to reinvent himself and is caught between 2 stools and doesn't understand the nuances of the game he's trying to play. The media are swaying him away from what he's good at . Personally I don't like his style, but had he sat with 2 banks of 4, played someone just behind Rooney who dropped into a 5 in midfield when they had the ball, Chile wouldn't have been able to pass through us. It would have been boring and he would have got some stick in the press (which he got anyway) , but we had a chance of a 0-0 or pinching a 1-0. One thing for sure is we were always going to get beat trying to out Chile (or out Saints) Chile. If we want to play an open and expansive game, then we've got the wrong coach. Keegan said if you need a 0-0 in Kiev then I'm not the man, if we want Saints like breath of fresh air football, then Woy's not the man.

[St Chalet]

There's probably loads of fellas chatting Spanish on the ChileWeb Forum right now moaning about how every team they beat lampoons their own lacklustre performance rather than giving credit to their better organised, faster paced and high pressing team.

 

Sound familiar?

[dubai_phil]

There's probably loads of fellas chatting Spanish on the ChileWeb Forum right now moaning about how every team they beat lampoons their own lacklustre performance rather than giving credit to their better organised, faster paced and high pressing team.

 

Sound familiar?

 

You fogot the "they'll do nothing in Brazil, their squad lacks depth."

 

Yeah sounds about right

[The Kraken]

Spot on.

 

Had Rickie been playing they still would not have played like they do for Saints because Woy will have detailed them to hold their position. It would have been straight lines, Rickie down the middle, Adam on the right and JRod down the left.

Pretty much the opposite of spot on, really. Remind me where on the pitch Rickie was when he started the moves that led to both of Welbeck's goals against Moldova? If you can't remember: the first goal came from RL dropping off almost to the right hand side point of the pitch on the halfway line, and from there played a pass way over the top for Welbeck to run into the centre forward position and slot home. Second goal? Lambert was hugging the left touchline and again played the ball through for Welbeck to occupy the centre forward position. As for the continual "Woy" references

[Turkish]

There's probably loads of fellas chatting Spanish on the ChileWeb Forum right now moaning about how every team they beat lampoons their own lacklustre performance rather than giving credit to their better organised, faster paced and high pressing team.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Just had a look on there and some fella called MellaG was really talking up their chances of winning the World Cup, said their squad was good enough to target winning it but would settle for getting knocked out in the 2nd round.

[trousers]

Just had a look on there and some fella called MellaG was really talking up their chances of winning the World Cup, said their squad was good enough to target winning it but would settle for getting knocked out in the 2nd round.

 

[The Kraken]

[kwsaint]

At one point last Saturday I stopped following the ball and watched what the Saints back four were doing. They were superb. You could almost draw a straight line between the four of them at times, and they moved up as a unit. Which is down to really hard work on the training field.

 

Then I compared it to the shambles of a back four playing for England last night. Saints work hard and have a plan. Couldn't see much of a plan for England last night.

[Turkish]

At one point last Saturday I stopped following the ball and watched what the Saints back four were doing. They were superb. You could almost draw a straight line between the four of them at times, and they moved up as a unit. Which is down to really hard work on the training field.

 

Then I compared it to the shambles of a back four playing for England last night. Saints work hard and have a plan. Couldn't see much of a plan for England last night.

 

And there is the problem, MP has drilled that all through preseason and the week after week of the season. The players play together every day in training and work on it every day. International managers have 3-4 days to get their point across. This is why international managers will pick players that have played together before and that know each other's games, be that at international level or club level. You can't just throw 11 individuals together and expect them to perform, which is exactly what happened last night yet some on here seem to demand that.

[scotty]

Just had a look on there and some fella called MellaG was really talking up their chances of winning the World Cup, said their squad was good enough to target winning it but would settle for getting knocked out in the 2nd round.

 

lofl

[Lord Duckhunter]

Pretty much the opposite of spot on, really. Remind me where on the pitch Rickie was when he started the moves that led to both of Welbeck's goals against Moldova? If you can't remember: the first goal came from RL dropping off almost to the right hand side point of the pitch on the halfway line, and from there played a pass way over the top for Welbeck to run into the centre forward position and slot home. Second goal? Lambert was hugging the left touchline and again played the ball through for Welbeck to occupy the centre forward position. As for the continual "Woy" references

 

I thought this was the England - Chile thread, so surely any discussion is around englands tactics in that particularly match. Clearly the manager asked our 2 guys to hold their position, unless you're suggesting that JRod was told "play as you do for Southampton " but decided , no" , I'll play strictly up and down the left flank as I did for Nigel". Its also telling that Townsend was equally inflexible with his positioning when he came on. I dont give a flying **** about Moldova, Poland, outer Mongolia or Scotland, in yesterdays game we played in stright lines right through the side. That is woy's fault, he was tactically inept.

[DaveyR]

The fact we have so many players recently reaching 100 caps shows how stagnated the England team has become. Is this due to new talent not emerging from the club/national youth system or the fact that if they show any promise they get promoted too quickly to the senior side. Leave the quality in the U19's and U21's so these teams can bond and grow together and be a team when they reach the age of the senior side. This really isn't rocket science but the English FA let young players in too early under pressure from the media to blood young talent in the senior side.

What I state is the fact these guys shouldn't be earning 100 caps due to a failure in the youth set up and progression of young talent. It's been shamefully managed by the English FA whilst other nations have recognised this fact and kept their youth teams together.

[The9]

And there is the problem, MP has drilled that all through preseason and the week after week of the season. The players play together every day in training and work on it every day. International managers have 3-4 days to get their point across. This is why international managers will pick players that have played together before and that know each other's games, be that at international level or club level. You can't just throw 11 individuals together and expect them to perform, which is exactly what happened last night yet some on here seem to demand that.

 

That's why I'm saying "pick 6 Saints players plus a keeper, some CBs and DMs and fit Rooney and Wilshere and maybe Sturridge" and start from there with OUR system, it's hardly a secret, we nicked it from Bielsa (who ironically used it for Chile) and it would reduce the amount of initial coaching needed. Plus they have the best part of a month to get it right pre-Brazil.

 

Of course, there's the issue of whether England can provide a coach to make the system work, as well as whether a high press will be possible in certain World Cup locations nearer the equator. But it's got to be better than the Imperial War March by roboclones like Henderson, second in the group and out in Round 2.

[The9]

I thought this was the England - Chile thread, so surely any discussion is around englands tactics in that particularly match. Clearly the manager asked our 2 guys to hold their position, unless you're suggesting that JRod was told "play as you do for Southampton " but decided , no" , I'll play strictly up and down the left flank as I did for Nigel". Its also telling that Townsend was equally inflexible with his positioning when he came on. I dont give a flying **** about Moldova, Poland, outer Mongolia or Scotland, in yesterdays game we played in stright lines right through the side. That is woy's fault, he was tactically inept.

 

Worse, it's about the Chile game in the context of finding the players and system for England to be successful in Brazil - though I suppose it's reasonable to at least check that new players aren't going to slot in well BEFORE trying to change it.

[monosaint]

I did notice that at the start of the game you could see Llallana following his Saints instincts and moving to press the back four but then glancing behind him to see that the support wasn't there so he retreated. Our players work in a system that is well defined and they will press knowing that the rest of the team are of the same mind so players like Lallana and Rodriguez feel confident in their role. For England you will be asked to play in a different way and I guess that's what makes a good international player. One who can adapt to different systems Lallana clearly can but maybe Jrod struggles. Difficult to judge in one game.

[The9]

I did notice that at the start of the game you could see Lallana following his Saints instincts and moving to press the back four but then glancing behind him to see that the support wasn't there so he retreated.

 

Yep, first minute, saw that, should have put the money on then, they might as well have waved the white flag at that point.

[Window Cleaner]

I see that Sturridge is out of tomorrow night's game as likely as not, does that increase the chances of all of our lads getting a game again ?

[Badger]

I see that Sturridge is out of tomorrow night's game as likely as not, does that increase the chances of all of our lads getting a game again ?

 

Not according to the BBC.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24907635

 

As we all know, if L/pool or Mancs are fit - and are willing to make themselves available for selection - then they'll play.

[Jez]

Sturridge pulled up in training today (an hour ago or so), so may not be fit for tomorrow. Press conference soon will confirm if he is fit or not - but doubtful. Sounded like Barkley will take his place.