Morgan for England says MP

[The9]

I believe they do, there was a fair amount of comment over Owen Hargreaves commiting to England after his debut in a friendly v Holland, this was considered a 'full international.'

 

Nope, they have to be competitive matches, ie qualifiers or World Cup or confederation tournament matches. The reason there was the stuff about Hargreaves was because it indicated who he was going to commit to, not because he had committed under FIFA regulations.

 

I can already see I'm going to have to revisit the bloody national regulations soon.

[The9]

Hopefully they haven't been superseded since 2008, this FIFA clarification letter has the info on page 2: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/81/10/29/circularno.1147-eligibilitytoplayforrepresentativeteams_55197.pdf

 

It's also clarified here:

Here, Press Association Sport looks at how those laws work, according to FIFA's guidelines.

 

Q. Who can a player play for when he has never played international football?

A. A player can play for any country for whom they hold a permanent nationality.

 

Q. What if that player wants to change nationality but has already played for a country?

A. A player who has more than one nationality, acquires a new one or is able to play for several sides, can, on one occasion up to their 21st birthday, request to change countries, provided that:

 

a) The player has not played in a competitive match for his current association.

b) At the time of that appearance they already had the nationality of the country they now wished to play for.

 

Q. What if a player wants to acquire a new nationality?

A. If a player wants to get a completely new nationality, then one of the following must be met:

a) Be born on the territory of the association.

b) Have a biological mother, biological father or grandparent born on that territory.

c) Have lived continuously on that territory for at least five years after reaching the age of 18.

Q. What happens to a player who is eligible to represent more than one Association an account of his nationality?

A. The player can play may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

 

a) Be born on the territory of the association.

b) Have a biological mother, biological father or grandparent born on that territory.

c) Have lived continuously on that territory for at least two years.

[The9]

Signed for Saints on 27 June 2008 and was 18 then, so Schneiderlin's been eligible for England under the current regulations since 27 June.

 

The only other element is the "gentlemen's agreement" between the home county FAs (that doesn't include Ireland, hoho) and whether that is still in place, seeing as technically living in England is, in terms of boundaries, living in the UK.

[The9]

"The Home Nations made a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that naturalisation should only be allowed in football terms if a player had five years of education in the country before the age of 18."

 

That would somewhat put the mockers on it, though FIFA don't actually recognise it as a rule.

 

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/home-nations-must-scrap-parochial-archaic-gentleman-agreement-172637816.html

 

Oh, and of course Argentinian-born Dani Osvaldo only qualifies for Italy because he has a GREAT-grandfather who was Italian and that qualifies him for Italian citizenship - that wouldn't qualify anyone for British citizenship in similar circumstances.

Edited 11 November, 2013 by The9

[mulletsaint]

Hopefully they haven't been superseded since 2008, this FIFA clarification letter has the info on page 2: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/81/10/29/circularno.1147-eligibilitytoplayforrepresentativeteams_55197.pdf

 

It's also clarified here:

Here, Press Association Sport looks at how those laws work, according to FIFA's guidelines.

 

Q. Who can a player play for when he has never played international football?

A. A player can play for any country for whom they hold a permanent nationality.

 

Q. What if that player wants to change nationality but has already played for a country?

A. A player who has more than one nationality, acquires a new one or is able to play for several sides, can, on one occasion up to their 21st birthday, request to change countries, provided that:

 

a) The player has not played in a competitive match for his current association.

b) At the time of that appearance they already had the nationality of the country they now wished to play for.

 

Q. What if a player wants to acquire a new nationality?

A. If a player wants to get a completely new nationality, then one of the following must be met:

a) Be born on the territory of the association.

b) Have a biological mother, biological father or grandparent born on that territory.

c) Have lived continuously on that territory for at least five years after reaching the age of 18.

Q. What happens to a player who is eligible to represent more than one Association an account of his nationality?

A. The player can play may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

 

a) Be born on the territory of the association.

b) Have a biological mother, biological father or grandparent born on that territory.

c) Have lived continuously on that territory for at least two years.

 

Signed for Saints on 27 June 2008 and was 18 then, so Schneiderlin's been eligible for England under the current regulations since 27 June.

 

The only other element is the "gentlemen's agreement" between the home county FAs (that doesn't include Ireland, hoho) and whether that is still in place, seeing as technically living in England is, in terms of boundaries, living in the UK.

 

"The Home Nations made a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that naturalisation should only be allowed in football terms if a player had five years of education in the country before the age of 18."

 

That would somewhat put the mockers on it, though FIFA don't actually recognise it as a rule.

 

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/home-nations-must-scrap-parochial-archaic-gentleman-agreement-172637816.html

 

Oh, and of course Argentinian-born Dani Osvaldo only qualifies for Italy because he has a GREAT-grandfather who was Italian and that qualifies him for Italian citizenship - that wouldn't qualify anyone for British citizenship in similar circumstances.

 

Hmmm. Didn't realise you were one of MLG's alter egos.

[dubai_phil]

From a different angle.

 

As an England fan, who would YOU rather have at DM in Brazil?

 

Gerrard/Lampard/Carrick/Cleverly

 

or Morgan

[Noodles34]

I was discussing the other day to no avail, but who the **** is in the French midfield? How good are they and who are the squad players, because they have to be pretty damn good to keep MS out, surely?

Any frog followers out there?

[stu0x]

Schneiderlin wants to play for England as much as Januzaj does.

 

0%.

 

Sadly, he also has about a 0% chance of playing for France whilst Deschamps is there.

[NI Saint]

Sky reported today that Schneiderlin wants to play with France still. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11700/9021200/southampton-midfielder-morgan-schneiderlin-chasing-france-call-up

 

These are the midfielders called up for the playoff match against Ukraine. Midfielders: Mathieu Valbuena, Franck Ribery, Paul Pogba, Blaise Matuidi, Yohan Cabaye, Samir Nasri, Clement Grenier, Rio Mavuba, Moussa Sissoko. A decent bit of competition there for Schneiderlin and as he has no CL experience, plays for Saints plus with Deschamps in charge, sadly he probably doesn't have a big chance of going to Brazil next summer. Who knows though as 3 years ago I never thought I would see Saints 3rd in the PL!

[Hopkins]

"The Home Nations made a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that naturalisation should only be allowed in football terms if a player had five years of education in the country before the age of 18."

 

That would somewhat put the mockers on it, though FIFA don't actually recognise it as a rule.

 

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/home-nations-must-scrap-parochial-archaic-gentleman-agreement-172637816.html

 

Oh, and of course Argentinian-born Dani Osvaldo only qualifies for Italy because he has a GREAT-grandfather who was Italian and that qualifies him for Italian citizenship - that wouldn't qualify anyone for British citizenship in similar circumstances.

 

FIFA do recognise it as a rule. You'd also need all home nations to agree to remove it, which won't happen because it will further weaken every nation except England. Without it, not only would it turn the home nations into a farce but I doubt it would take long for FIFA to demand the home nations become a team GB.

 

It won't be happening, we can't just rip up an agreement and other than the short sited arguement of "Morgan would be able to play for England OMGZZZ how good would we be!" it is an idiotic idea.

[richard]

FIFA do recognise it as a rule. You'd also need all home nations to agree to remove it, which won't happen because it will further weaken every nation except England. Without it, not only would it turn the home nations into a farce but I doubt it would take long for FIFA to demand the home nations become a team GB.

 

It won't be happening, we can't just rip up an agreement and other than the short sited arguement of "Morgan would be able to play for England OMGZZZ how good would we be!" it is an idiotic idea.

 

 

The "home nations agreement" only applies to people who are eligible by birth (their own or parental/grandparental) so it doesn't apply to Morgan because he doesn't have any British relatives. He would qualify if he has applied for a British passport. I agree however that it is irrelevant because the player has to want to play for England, and he seems to want to play for France.

 

Source: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/51/56/07/transfer_commentary_06_en_1843.pdf (Annex 2).

 

EDIT: I think this is incorrect. I'm not sure enough to make any further statements and can't be bothered to look any more.

Edited 12 November, 2013 by richard

[Window Cleaner]

Sky reported today that Schneiderlin wants to play with France still. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11700/9021200/southampton-midfielder-morgan-schneiderlin-chasing-france-call-up

 

These are the midfielders called up for the playoff match against Ukraine. Midfielders: Mathieu Valbuena, Franck Ribery, Paul Pogba, Blaise Matuidi, Yohan Cabaye, Samir Nasri, Clement Grenier, Rio Mavuba, Moussa Sissoko. A decent bit of competition there for Schneiderlin and as he has no CL experience, plays for Saints plus with Deschamps in charge, sadly he probably doesn't have a big chance of going to Brazil next summer. Who knows though as 3 years ago I never thought I would see Saints 3rd in the PL!

 

Any decent player should be selected before Sissoko,Mavuba and Valbuena. Trouble is like everything else in France les bleus are politically motivated, you've got to have enough blacks,whites,greys or else that will **** off some section of the populace, you've got to have someone from Marseille, someone from Lyon, someone from PSG. If a team is doing well (in this case Lille) you've got to have one of their players at least, so it's far easier to ignore any player who isn't in the public eye every week.

The groans about the non selection of Schneiderlin are becoming stronger and stronger, L'Equipe is campaigning for him nigh on every day as are the rest of the sporting press. But DD is mule headed and likes his binkies so really only defeat by the Ukraine will solve the problem in the immediate future but then it would be academic as no one wll play in Brazil this summer as far as the french are concerned.

[tpbury]

By his name, I assume he is Alsatian. So is Wenger. So, Monsieur lavez les Fenetres, is there a footopolitical bias against this germanic bit of France?

[Window Cleaner]

By his name, I assume he is Alsatian. So is Wenger. So, Monsieur lavez les Fenetres, is there a footopolitical bias against this germanic bit of France?

 

No I don't think so no. The FFF would sack DD and take Wenger in an instant if he ever came within their price range. We'll see

what hapens when he's out of contract at Arsenal but when Blanc was removed Arsenal wanted a compensation of somewhere around 10 million and Wenger himself wants about 7 million euros a year. Being the French national coach would in theory deprive him of his TV role with TF1 but at about 200K€ per annum that's peanuts. Even so compared to the annual salary that the FFF

are prepared to pay (DD gets about 1 million£ a year gross, far less than half of his salary at Marseille) everything counts.

Edited 12 November, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Window Cleaner]

The groans about the non selection of Schneiderlin are becoming stronger and stronger, L'Equipe is campaigning for him nigh on every day as are the rest of the sporting press. But DD is mule headed and likes his binkies so really only defeat by the Ukraine will solve the problem in the immediate future but then it would be academic as no one wll play in Brazil this summer as far as the french are concerned.

 

 

Looks as if we're over half-way there then, last night's game was crying our for players like Morgan and Flamini, technical ability coupled with a smidgeon of EPL nastiness to give the Ukrainians a bit of their own medicine. The French were crap, unsurprising because it was all DDs binkies.

[TopGun]

Looks as if we're over half-way there then, last night's game was crying our for players like Morgan and Flamini, technical ability coupled with a smidgeon of EPL nastiness to give the Ukrainians a bit of their own medicine. The French were crap, unsurprising because it was all DDs binkies.

 

Agree with this. Will have some pleasure watching them go out tomorrow night.

[Window Cleaner]

Agree with this. Will have some pleasure watching them go out tomorrow night.

 

If they go out tomorrow night, they're well capable of winning by at least 2 goals and at least forcing extra time. Trouble is will they

fancy it, they all say they do but then they said that last week as well. I am absolutely certain that a truly competent manager could still get them through but with DD's just give it to Francky instructions its so easy to counter.

[richard]

Agree with this. Will have some pleasure watching them go out tomorrow night.

 

I think it's a shame if France don't go to the World Cup. They're normally really entertaining, either because they play really well or because the implode utterly. It would be better for them to get to the group stage and then lose all their games then imo.

[Window Cleaner]

I think it's a shame if France don't go to the World Cup. They're normally really entertaining, either because they play really well or because the implode utterly. It would be better for them to get to the group stage and then lose all their games then imo.

 

Problem is DD has made a right old foxxing mess because his is not up to the job and just calls up the same old players time and time again. I don't doubt he also gets a far old bit of interference from people who should have nothing to do with the choice of players. It is said that a players agent (probably his as well) exerts an undue influence over his choices.

[Gemmel]

DD will almost certainly get the chop if they don't qualify - And then Morgan will get his call up.

[Window Cleaner]

DD will almost certainly get the chop if they don't qualify - And then Morgan will get his call up.[/quote)]

DD said at the start of his mandate he wouldn't stay on in the eventuality of a non qualification.

[Batman]

WC, is there much interest in morgan by the french football press?

[Window Cleaner]

WC, is there much interest in morgan by the french football press?

 

Yes a lot of it, they, like us, don't understand why he's not been called up. Mind you we don't have Stars,Suns and Mirrors to help our national team manager with his choices. However it's not just non-selection that's incomprehensible, he's not even on their radar. No-one calls him from the DTN at the FFF, no-one watches his games, he's just a forgotten man as far as the FFF is concerned.

Edited 18 November, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[hutch]

Didn't the FFF tell Morgan that if he wanted a career in international football then he had to leave us when we dropped into L1?

[sotonist]

Didn't the FFF tell Morgan that if he wanted a career in international football then he had to leave us when we dropped into L1?

Rings a bell. Maybe someone in the setup is butthurt and keeping him out.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Whatever Morgans thoughts were about England watching them play against Chile must have snuffed out any chance whatsover of him turning out for the three lions!

[shurlock]

Yes a lot of it, they, like us, don't understand why he's not been called up. Mind you we don't have Stars,Suns and Mirrors to help our national team manager with his choices. However it's not just non-selection that's incomprehensible, he's not even on their radar. No-one calls him from the DTN at the FFF, no-one watches his games, he's just a forgotten man as far as the FFF is concerned.

 

So if it's at the level of the FFF and systemic, a change of manager isn't necessarily going to make a big difference?

[The Cat]

As much as I love Schneiderlin, and as much as he'd improve the England team, I wouldn't want him playing for us. I'm not a fan of the national cricket team including South African and Irish players as it is.

[Window Cleaner]

So if it's at the level of the FFF and systemic, a change of manager isn't necessarily going to make a big difference?

 

Depends on the outlook of the new manager really, depends if he watches a lot of English football or not I'd suppose, depends on who influences his choices, his immediate entourage etc. Deschamps puts a lot of faith in big clubs and CL experience, if you don't have any you'll probably get totally ignored by him. His current 23

 

Tottenham 1

Marseille 3

Juventus 1

Monaco (but ex Barcelona)1

Paris SG 1

Newcastle 4

Lille 1

Arsenal 3

Manchester City 2

Manchester Utd 1

Real Madrid 2

Lyon 1

Liverpool 1

Bastia 1 (3rd goalkeeper)

 

So the real oddity is the 4 Newcastle players (all with CL experience) but only Remy started last Friday and as we know he an ex Marseillais. No player in the current 23 is without CL games in the past. A new manager would probably mean a total clear out.