Hypothetical Scenario...

[Crab Lungs]

I'm not one to get carried away at all and after seeing The Kraken's thread about how proud he is of our team and pretty much summing up everything I wanted to say, I thought I'd ask something different - though completely hypothetical. I'd just be very interested to see what the fans would think is the right way to go in a particular scenario.

 

Anyway, imagine. We negotiate the next two months with the same level of performances and results and we still sit in the Champions League places on January the 1st. There are no injuries and no visible signs of fatigue though the squad could be, with suspensions/unforeseen injuries become a little thin if the unfortunate does happen. That said, the current squad is happy, settled and fit.

 

Though with a Champions League place possibly at stake, do you...

 

(1) Stick - maybe bring one more quality player in and keep the current squad as it is

(2) Twist - Bring in 2+ quality players in to try and give the squad more depth and competition

 

Also...

 

(a) What would you like to see us do if we're in that position come the January window

(b) What do you think Cortese will do?

 

FWIW, I'm not sure what route I'd like to go down...

[Reggie Dunlop]

FWIW I think get rid of Guly and Ramirez and bring in some one who will offer something or at least push the players we already have for a starting position

[MongoNeil]

It's clear to see that we don't have the strength in depth of many of the big teams. regardless of when we spend, it's inevitable that we will if we wan't to go to the next level. With the international call-ups too, and as someone said in another thread, our boys are not going to have a relaxing summer if they make it to Brazil (which I'm sure they will).

 

The question is then, do you bring in cover to sit on the bench or better players to replace what we have and potentially break up a winning formula? The big European sides manage having world-class talent sat on the bench to give them options, how do they do it?

 

I should win a prize for this post for the number of football cliches you can fit in a sentence.

[Ewell]

I would sign two quality players but firstly I would sell Gaston and here is my reasoning.

 

It seems quite clear to me that Pochettino does not rate Gaston and I have finally come to that conclusion this week for two main reasons. Firstly he was hauled off to give a youngster experience against Sunderland when he desperately needed 90 minutes, why not take Rodriguez off as the competition obviously was far from a priority (team selection told us that) and Rodriguez is a regular starter playing 69 minutes pre and 90 minutes post the stoke game. If he wanted to give Gaston 90 minutes then make no mistake this was the time.

Secondly he allowed Gaston to leave early to play in Uruguay's very important world cup play off with Jordan. Whilst you would think he is not a likely starter at the moment on form he would be an important game changer from the bench. Pochettino allowing him to go early can only mean one thing to me and that is he does not see Gaston as a player who can make a difference so my argument is why keep him. In my opinion is we should cut our losses.

 

So who do we sign, that I am not so sure. The continual call for wingers from the fan-base seems pointless to me as I think Pochettino has the wide options he wants as he likes to play a fluid but narrow formation allowing our full backs to overlap. The likes of Rodriguez. Lallana, JWP, Isgrove, Gully and Lee are the options and I do not see Pochettino wanting to block the path for the likes of JWP or Isgrove. So that being said I think if the interest is still there then a bid for someone like Banega could be sensible as whilst his form has not been great he is still a class act and we would be able to get him for a very reasonable amount.

[Crab Lungs]

I would sign two quality players but firstly I would sell Gaston and here is my reasoning.

 

It seems quite clear to me that Pochettino does not rate Gaston and I have finally come to that conclusion this week for two main reasons. Firstly he was hauled off to give a youngster experience against Sunderland when he desperately needed 90 minutes, why not take Rodriguez off as the competition obviously was far from a priority (team selection told us that) and Rodriguez is a regular starter playing 69 minutes pre and 90 minutes post the stoke game. If he wanted to give Gaston 90 minutes then make no mistake this was the time.

Secondly he allowed Gaston to leave early to play in Uruguay's very important world cup play off with Jordan. Whilst you would think he is not a likely starter at the moment on form he would be an important game changer from the bench. Pochettino allowing him to go early can only mean one thing to me and that is he does not see Gaston as a player who can make a difference so my argument is why keep him. In my opinion is we should cut our losses.

 

So who do we sign, that I am not so sure. The continual call for wingers from the fan-base seems pointless to me as I think Pochettino has the wide options he wants as he likes to play a fluid but narrow formation allowing our full backs to overlap. The likes of Rodriguez. Lallana, JWP, Isgrove, Gully and Lee are the options and I do not see Pochettino wanting to block the path for the likes of JWP or Isgrove. So that being said I think if the interest is still there then a bid for someone like Banega could be sensible as whilst his form has not been great he is still a class act and we would be able to get him for a very reasonable amount.

 

Good response and... I'm glad you've taken me off "ignore"

 

FWIW I do agree that out-and-out wingers aren't really are thing. If we can pick up a few options to Lallana, Rodriguez etc and possibly another centre-half then I'll probably be more than happy. I did think about what'd happen if Schneiderlin/Wanyama rack up a load of bookings but with Cork on the bench and Davis also able to adequately deputise, I think we're ok there.

 

Possibly left-back cover, but then that would go against the mantra of bringing players in to improve the side I guess...

[CanadaSaint]

CL, for me it depends on what you mean by "quality players".

 

There is a strong case that two out of the three (generally regarded as) "quality players" we signed have had some trouble fitting in. The third is prone to the occasional and often inexplicable passing error, although he contributes significantly for the most part.

 

On the other hand we have one player who I would classify (without any intended insult) as an upper-level journeyman midfielder - Steven Davis. He has found a new level under Pochettino, and he fits himself very well into our style. We have others who arrived (or came up through our system) with decent credentials, and who have also found a new level under MP.

 

I'm not convinced that we have to spend really big bucks in your hypothetical scenario. I think we have to buy decent quality players with high fitness levels who will fit into our set up - initially as depth players but with the potential to improve as others have done.

 

I can see us going for Ever Banega because he seems to tick both the quality and fit criteria, but I wouldn't be surprised if our scouting system was looking for both kinds of "fit" rather than "big name" - and thus expensive - quality.

[Batman]

in an ideal world

signing loads of player rarely works, examples all over the place.

 

definitely a LB to come in to give shaw competition, whether that is from the academy or bought in. Shaw is good for missing games randomly

I would loan/sell ramirez and bring in A N Other. be it on loan or buy. Maybe OxO/Banega on loan with a view to buy?

then again, cant see us spending in this country

 

That would be the business for me in Jan

[Turkish]

in an ideal world

signing loads of player rarely works, examples all over the place.

 

definitely a LB to come in to give shaw competition, whether that is from the academy or bought in. Shaw is good for missing games randomly

I would loan/sell ramirez and bring in A N Other. be it on loan or buy. Maybe OxO/Banega on loan with a view to buy?

then again, cant see us spending in this country

 

That would be the business for me in Jan

 

If Oxlade Chamberlian hadn't come from saints would so many fans want to see him here? I would say not.

Edited 10 November, 2013 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

If Oxlainde Chamberlian hadn't come from saints would so many fans want to see him here? I would say not.

 

Should be going all out to get Bridgey back IMO.

[Turkish]

Should be going all out to get Bridgey back IMO.

 

We could have had Chris Baird on a free in the summer too, missed a trick IMO.

[Patrick Bateman]

We could have had Chris Baird on a free in the summer too, missed a trick IMO.

 

+Surman, Steve Guppy and Jutkiewicz.

[Frank's cousin]

Big contributing factor to the progress we have made in successive seasons IMHO =

 

1. Manager changes - both seemed harsh, but the thing I see is that we have not had replacements that have changed the style radically - just made subtle but impactful adjustments - so continuity in playing style but with that extra bit... and the maanager pesonalities involved all seem to inspire. The thing with our style is it needs all to buy into it 100% and be willing to put in that extra training, effort etc - not an easy thing and why perhaps we are more selective in transfers?

 

2. All incoming signings (and really only 2-3 a season expected to become regular starters) - are expected to FIGHT for a place, even if they cast a fair whack. Means that the squad know that if they are going to lose their place, it will be to someone who deserves it.

 

3. Belief - naturally long suffereing fans who have seen plenty of false dawns, or promised scuppered on the rocks of disappointment, take a lot more convincing than the chairmans vision statements - and no one really wants to end up looking foolish, if they jump right on in -despite some being called happy clappies, most in reality are either cynical or cautious with any optimism... too often burned. BUT its clear the players have belief - not necessarily in finishing top 4, but that the media and accepted football wisdom that determines a glass ceiling for clubs like ours, is only real if you believe it to be. As MP says, the only limit to what we can achieve is ourselves - clever in that includes injuries and bad luck - but importantly so much is due to confidence in their own ability. Players who a few seasons back were in L1! Have learned, improved - through dedication, graft and decent coaching from Pards, Adkins and Poch, all of who can take some credit in where we are now.

 

I have feck all idea of where we will finish - some say we are where we are because we have a relatively easy start.... but the bottom half is the bottom half because ALL top half sides have in general beaten them... I dont think we fear anyone and on our day can beat anyone - key to where we finish is how consistent we can be, luck ... the next 5 games seem tough on paper and in reality will be, but for the first time since maybe '84, those same sides will now also be concerned by us, and adapting their natural game to counter us... we stay fit, get lucky and dont burn out and we could be top 4-6 - stranger things have happened!

 

Whatever else happens or wherever we finish, we have already shown that we have progressed. The club, the players and the staff deserve our respect for that and we should be proud of our 'plucky little side' - because if NC carries on in the same vain, we will be gain more than just patronising platitudes, but will be a new addition to the top table on merit, rather than just stupid cash - and that makes me most proud.

[beatlesaint]

Gaston was not allowed to go early, the only player given permission to meet up with the Uruguay squad late was Suarez and that is because Liverpool paid to fly him out especially.

[Deano6]

So this "hypothetical scenario" is "should we buy one player or two in January"?

[VectisSaint]

It seems quite clear to me that Pochettino does not rate Gaston and I have finally come to that conclusion this week for two main reasons. Firstly he was hauled off to give a youngster experience against Sunderland when he desperately needed 90 minutes, why not take Rodriguez off as the competition obviously was far from a priority (team selection told us that) and Rodriguez is a regular starter playing 69 minutes pre and 90 minutes post the stoke game. If he wanted to give Gaston 90 minutes then make no mistake this was the time.

Don't disagree with much you have written, but this idea that Gaston was allowed to leave early is completely wrong. FIFA rules oblige clubs to release players 5 days before WC games. It is not an option, we had no real choice. Liverpool seem to have come to an agreement with Uruguay to delay Suarez' release and maybe we didn't see it as critical to do the same, but if the country insists then there is no choice. Uruguay play Jordan on Wednesday so as long as Gaston was named in the squad we have known for some time he would not be available yesterday, whether MP wanted him to play or not. Them's the rules. People should not read anything into Gaston's absence beyond this. Frankly I have come round to the idea that Gaston will be loaned back to Italy in January and that there may be a deal already being done to do some sort of swap.

[Badger]

+Surman, Steve Guppy and Jutkiewicz.

 

..just kept Hammond.

[Tony F]

Big contributing factor to the progress we have made in successive seasons IMHO =

 

1. Manager changes - both seemed harsh, but the thing I see is that we have not had replacements that have changed the style radically - just made subtle but impactful adjustments - so continuity in playing style but with that extra bit... and the maanager pesonalities involved all seem to inspire. The thing with our style is it needs all to buy into it 100% and be willing to put in that extra training, effort etc - not an easy thing and why perhaps we are more selective in transfers?

 

2. All incoming signings (and really only 2-3 a season expected to become regular starters) - are expected to FIGHT for a place, even if they cast a fair whack. Means that the squad know that if they are going to lose their place, it will be to someone who deserves it.

 

3. Belief - naturally long suffereing fans who have seen plenty of false dawns, or promised scuppered on the rocks of disappointment, take a lot more convincing than the chairmans vision statements - and no one really wants to end up looking foolish, if they jump right on in -despite some being called happy clappies, most in reality are either cynical or cautious with any optimism... too often burned. BUT its clear the players have belief - not necessarily in finishing top 4, but that the media and accepted football wisdom that determines a glass ceiling for clubs like ours, is only real if you believe it to be. As MP says, the only limit to what we can achieve is ourselves - clever in that includes injuries and bad luck - but importantly so much is due to confidence in their own ability. Players who a few seasons back were in L1! Have learned, improved - through dedication, graft and decent coaching from Pards, Adkins and Poch, all of who can take some credit in where we are now.

 

I have feck all idea of where we will finish - some say we are where we are because we have a relatively easy start.... but the bottom half is the bottom half because ALL top half sides have in general beaten them... I dont think we fear anyone and on our day can beat anyone - key to where we finish is how consistent we can be, luck ... the next 5 games seem tough on paper and in reality will be, but for the first time since maybe '84, those same sides will now also be concerned by us, and adapting their natural game to counter us... we stay fit, get lucky and dont burn out and we could be top 4-6 - stranger things have happened!

 

Whatever else happens or wherever we finish, we have already shown that we have progressed. The club, the players and the staff deserve our respect for that and we should be proud of our 'plucky little side' - because if NC carries on in the same vain, we will be gain more than just patronising platitudes, but will be a new addition to the top table on merit, rather than just stupid cash - and that makes me most proud.

 

Excellent balanced post Frank. I concur and am equally proud of the team.