Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 How many times have you seen Rhodes play? Genuine question A few times on tele (For Blackburn and for Scotland), saw him against Leicester mid week last Feb (Leicester 3-0 Blackburn) and against Huddersfield on the 21st September (0-0.) He is an excellent finisher, the focal point of their attacking system and when the team fires he does well. But he is not someone who is on his own making a difference, he is only firing when the team click. I do not believe that he is someone who will give us something extra, he is not the same physical mobile presence that Rickie is and will not give us an option in excess of our current capability. Is he capable of playing at Premier League level? Probably, but he is not the solution for us when we use a system that needs definitive hard work, movement and something genuinely high class to make the most of our attacking moves when we have the opposition pressed/pushed back in a crowded penalty box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Patience. A novel concept among football supporters. There is more patience amongst most football supporters who go matches than there is among football supporters who spend their time trolling on football message boards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Am I the only one who likes Osvaldo? You wouldn't want loads of them, but I like having 1 unpredictable slightly temperamental player. He's got plenty of ability and I think he's settling in well and will start banging in a few goals. It is supposed to be entertainment after all. He's always smiling, laughing or shouting in anger, slightly unhinged but I like him. Nope count me in as well. We had very similar posts from experts last season about JRod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2014 A few times on tele (For Blackburn and for Scotland), saw him against Leicester mid week last Feb (Leicester 3-0 Blackburn) and against Huddersfield on the 21st September (0-0.) He is an excellent finisher, the focal point of their attacking system and when the team fires he does well. But he is not someone who is on his own making a difference, he is only firing when the team click. I do not believe that he is someone who will give us something extra, he is not the same physical mobile presence that Rickie is and will not give us an option in excess of our current capability. Is he capable of playing at Premier League level? Probably, but he is not the solution for us when we use a system that needs definitive hard work, movement and something genuinely high class to make the most of our attacking moves when we have the opposition pressed/pushed back in a crowded penalty box. Under mopo we dont create many clear cut chances, youre right with that. So for a team that doesnt create many chances - what do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Under mopo we dont create many clear cut chances, youre right with that. So for a team that doesnt create many chances - what do you need? What would you recommend? I've shared some opinion, I want to hear yours now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Jim Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 You offer that in a sarcastic fashion, but what is wrong with Rhodes? He has scored 43 in 68 for an average Blackburn side and out scored Rickie in league 1 and the championship. He's also younger than Osvaldo and alot cheaper in fees, wages and attitude. If youre going to mock, try harder as Rhodes is a top player. 110 goals in his last 200 games, he could step up to the prem imho But he's playing against some average players. Against international players (as he'd face in the Prem) he's scored only 3 in 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2014 But he's playing against some average players. Against international players (as he'd face in the Prem) he's scored 3 in 11. Didnt you say the same about Lambert? Lallana? Morgan? They were all playing in league 1 few years back........ You are effectively righting off all players from the lower leagues? Rhodes is the best goal scorer in the championship, he's also very young. Has he not earnt a chance in the prem same as Morgan, Adam and Rickie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Didnt you say the same about Lambert? Lallana? Morgan? They were all playing in league 1 few years back........ You are effectively righting off all players from the lower leagues? Rhodes is the best goal scorer in the championship, he's also very young. Has he not earnt a chance in the prem same as Morgan, Adam and Rickie? Don't forget Earnshaw, Ellington, Ricketts, Ebanks-Blake,. Scoring a hat-full at Championship League level is not an assured stamp of ongoing or premier league quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 They were discussing Rhodes on TalkSport the other day, he's been watched by many Prem Teams but he has next to no pace and very little mobility, like Rickie on a bad day. He will score a hatful in lower league football but he doesn't have the movement or speed to succeed in the PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 You offer that in a sarcastic fashion, but what is wrong with Rhodes? He has scored 43 in 68 for an average Blackburn side and out scored Rickie in league 1 and the championship. He's also younger than Osvaldo and alot cheaper in fees, wages and attitude. If youre going to mock, try harder as Rhodes is a top player. 110 goals in his last 200 games, he could step up to the prem imho If he is such a talent why has nobody signed him ? Not s if Blackburn are going to be gracing the prem any time soon ? Or are you very wrong again ? Stick to trolling and using pointless stats, this football larks not for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 And others are just ***ts And one large #wat called glasgow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 They were discussing Rhodes on TalkSport the other day, he's been watched by many Prem Teams but he has next to no pace and very little mobility, like Rickie on a bad day. He will score a hatful in lower league football but he doesn't have the movement or speed to succeed in the PL I think he has great movement but a bit like Hooper it's not anywhere else but around the box. The challenge with Rhodes is that the sort of teams that might take a punt on him need far more from their striker as they may have less than the ball than their opponents. If you look at Hooper and Norwich, they only get the best out of him when he has a partner (Elmander) and Elmander doesn't score but he has to take the burden of running the channels etc. as Hooper doesn't do it. But then if Norwich shove two up front they lose the extra man in midfield which causes them problems too. I think he has Premier League quality but I can't see a team taking a chance on him unless he is available for below £5m - like Hooper, and even then his potential destinations are minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 I think he has great movement but a bit like Hooper it's not anywhere else but around the box. The challenge with Rhodes is that the sort of teams that might take a punt on him need far more from their striker as they may have less than the ball than their opponents. If you look at Hooper and Norwich, they only get the best out of him when he has a partner (Elmander) and Elmander doesn't score but he has to take the burden of running the channels etc. as Hooper doesn't do it. But then if Norwich shove two up front they lose the extra man in midfield which causes them problems too. I think he has Premier League quality but I can't see a team taking a chance on him unless he is available for below £5m - like Hooper, and even then his potential destinations are minimal. Add that to the closing down / pressing he'd be expected to do you can see why he doesn't fit - at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 What would you recommend? I've shared some opinion, I want to hear yours now. Where is Glasgow? I genuinely want to know his opinion on how we should tackle the issue that we are not making many clear chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Where is Glasgow? I genuinely want to know his opinion on how we should tackle the issue that we are not making many clear chances. I think he was implying that as we don't create many chances we need be be clinical with the few that we get and that Rhodes, as a clinical finisher, would be appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 (edited) I think he was implying that as we don't create many chances we need be be clinical with the few that we get and that Rhodes, as a clinical finisher, would be appropriate. Sorry Pastor, but he clearly said: Under mopo we dont create many clear cut chances, youre right with that. So for a team that doesnt create many chances - what do you need? Not that I was actually explicitly saying that, taking that on though statistically we are actually about bang average in the league as far as chances are concerned, as seen in the half season stats breakdown thread. Couple that with the record of our forwards at the same level as Rhodes I would say that chance conversion isn't the specific issue.... and even if it was there is no certainty based on my opinion and the sketchy record of championship top scorers coming to the Premier League that he would be any kind of certain solution. Taking Jay Rodriguez as an example, he was never fiercely prolific at Championship level but it was his other qualities (movement, positional sense which complimented his finishing) which has allowed him to adapt and thrive. Edited 10 January, 2014 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Sorry Pastor, but he clearly said: Not that I was actually explicitly saying that, taking that on though statistically we are actually about bang average in the league as far as chances are concerned, as seen in the half season stats breakdown thread. Couple that with the record of our forwards at the same level as Rhodes I would say that chance conversion isn't the specific issue. Rhodes has a better goalscoring record then Lambert and Rodriguez doesn't he? Regardless I'm pretty certain that's the point he was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Rhodes has a better goalscoring record then Lambert and Rodriguez doesn't he? Regardless I'm pretty certain that's the point he was making. And the points countering that where that his other attributes wouldn't fit the way we play. That is an opinion it seems I share with a few other forum members, no doubting his finishing ability but he isn't someone who would sufficiently improve our first team. For better or worse we operate a certain system, anyone we sign will have to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. No, i'm a bit hormonal at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 And the points countering that where that his other attributes wouldn't fit the way we play. That is opinion it seems I share with a few other forum members, no doubting his finishing ability but he isn't someone who would sufficiently improve our first team. For better or worse we operate a certain system, anyone we sign will have to fit. Perhaps, but having a big striker on the bench who knows where the net is is useful regardless of the system you play. He'd be an ideal guy to bring on if you're chasing a game, we have zero physical presence upfront when Lambert's not on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2014 And the points countering that where that his other attributes wouldn't fit the way we play. That is an opinion it seems I share with a few other forum members, no doubting his finishing ability but he isn't someone who would sufficiently improve our first team. For better or worse we operate a certain system, anyone we sign will have to fit. Osvaldo doesn't fit our system! Can't think of many that would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 (edited) Osvaldo doesn't fit our system! Can't think of many that would? I disagree. His off the ball movement stretches the defenders similarly to Jay while he provides some unpredictability with his ingenuity on the ball, he is not having a run in the team thanks to the form of Rickie and Jay and as such hasn't been able to assert himself. For me that shows how well our strikers are doing to keep him out just as much as highlighting how disappointing it may be that he isn't scoring as many as we would hope due to his price tag. As for can't thinking of many that would, well.... the system that we play gives our strikers a very tough time. To genuinely improve things further I feel we would need to sign someone from the very, absolute top draw. Until (!?) we can offer European football we will struggle with that. Incidentally, how would you look for us to create more chances, which is a point you stated earlier? Please don't tell me I have to go all Paxman before you finally state some opinion of your own. I'm not sharing any more of my own until you do. Edited 10 January, 2014 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Osvaldo doesn't fit our system! Can't think of many that would? What do you think our system is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Looks like Jelavic is off to Hull. His career gone off the boil quickly, was the darling of Everton a couple of seasons back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2014 What do you think our system is? Possession without too much punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Possession without too much punch. Care to be more specific? That's a rather general answer. Also, how would you recommend we create more chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Possession without too much punch. You think that is what we aim for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 I disagree. His off the ball movement stretches the defenders similarly to Jay while he provides some unpredictability with his ingenuity on the ball, he is not having a run in the team thanks to the form of Rickie and Jay and as such hasn't been able to assert himself. For me that shows how well our strikers are doing to keep him out just as much as highlighting how disappointing it may be that he isn't scoring as many as we would hope due to his price tag. As for can't thinking of many that would, well.... the system that we play gives our strikers a very tough time. To genuinely improve things further I feel we would need to sign someone from the very, absolute top draw. Until (!?) we can offer European football we will struggle with that. Incidentally, how would you look for us to create more chances, which is a point you stated earlier? Please don't tell me I have to go all Paxman before you finally state some opinion of your own. I'm not sharing any more of my own until you do. Sign a pacey wideman and get it in the mixer earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Sign a pacey wideman and get it in the mixer earlier. Perfect for a Rhodes type player. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2014 You think that is what we aim for? Mopo is trying to copy Barcelona's style but we dont have the squad quailty to sustain that tactic for a full season. Its like trying to make sushi with basmati rice.... Unless you have the right ingrediants things just dont work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Sign a pacey wideman and get it in the mixer earlier. Not particularly, where we tend to pick the ball up pace isn't necessarily the attribute we need to get the ball in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Mopo is trying to copy Barcelona's style but we dont have the squad quailty to sustain that tactic for a full season. Its like trying to make sushi with basmati rice.... Unless you have the right ingrediants things just dont work I don't think we're copying that system to the degree some think we are. But we definitely have a squad where our replacements in some positions are nowhere near as good as the first choice player. That is always going to happen when you make as much progress as we have in the last 5 years. But whatever we've done tactically thus far has clearly served us well as the only clubs above us in the league are those who spend far more on wages, have bigger squads, and better teams. I am sure we will look to bridge that gap through developing the players we have and where some aren't up to it, seeing them replaced over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Mopo is trying to copy Barcelona's style but we dont have the squad quailty to sustain that tactic for a full season. Its like trying to make sushi with basmati rice.... Unless you have the right ingrediants things just dont work Its not exactly Barcas model no, its more Bielsa than even Pep chose to copy. But Im just being pedantic if Im honest. Faxt is Ossie fits us much better than anyone ive seen you care to put forward as an alternative so Im assuming your just trying to make a point, albeit a poor one. I could explain the reasons to you why ossie fits the system but I fear you wouldnt understand and your only on a pathetic troll mission again anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 I don't think we're copying that system to the degree some think we are. But we definitely have a squad where our replacements in some positions are nowhere near as good as the first choice player. That is always going to happen when you make as much progress as we have in the last 5 years. But whatever we've done tactically thus far has clearly served us well as the only clubs above us in the league are those who spend far more on wages, have bigger squads, and better teams. I am sure we will look to bridge that gap through developing the players we have and where some aren't up to it, seeing them replaced over time. That's cos we're not. We're playing a similar style of play to Bielsa's Bilbao side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 I don't think we're copying that system to the degree some think we are. But we definitely have a squad where our replacements in some positions are nowhere near as good as the first choice player. That is always going to happen when you make as much progress as we have in the last 5 years. But whatever we've done tactically thus far has clearly served us well as the only clubs above us in the league are those who spend far more on wages, have bigger squads, and better teams. I am sure we will look to bridge that gap through developing the players we have and where some aren't up to it, seeing them replaced over time. This, the tactics still work, its just as a result of our rapid progression we dont have the replacements to our best 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Mopo is trying to copy Barcelona's style but we dont have the squad quailty to sustain that tactic for a full season. Its like trying to make sushi with basmati rice.... Unless you have the right ingrediants things just dont work So what would you rather do? It's easy to criticise but not so much to provide insight and alternative.... but you would at least be respected for trying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 (edited) We might press and (attempt to) keep possession like Bilbao or Barca but we're not afraid to go long (in the air rather than to feet) which neither of those two do. So while Ossie may fit those two teams, our system/style is sufficiently different that legitimate questions will be asked about his 'fit' with us. Edited 10 January, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 We might press and (attempt to) keep possession like Bilbao or Barca but we're not afraid to go long which neither of those do. So while Ossie may fit those two teams, our system is sufficiently different that legitimate questions will be asked about his 'fit'. Bilboa used to play direct to Llorente, it was the main difference between their's and Barca's styles, and the fact they used to play a more mixed route to the box (crossing from deep etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 (edited) Bilboa used to play direct to Llorente, it was the main difference between their's and Barca's styles, and the fact they used to play a more mixed route to the box (crossing from deep etc). Ossie is much better when the ball is played quickly to feet or peeling off the last defender and having to take down a direct ball. Ask him to go up and win a ball in the air in front of two CBs, then he struggles massively. Same for Jrod. Shame because he's a class player. Edited 10 January, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 So, no transfer news then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 So, no transfer news then? Or any answers from Glasgow!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 So, no transfer news then? It would appear that way yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Or any answers from Glasgow!! Strange that someone with so many posts on a forum would be so reticent to express their own viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 Strange that someone with so many posts on a forum would be so reticent to express their own viewpoint. I hear you get more bites if you just leave the bait in the water rather than repeatedly casting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 10 January, 2014 Share Posted 10 January, 2014 We might press and (attempt to) keep possession like Bilbao or Barca but we're not afraid to go long (in the air rather than to feet) which neither of those two do. So while Ossie may fit those two teams, our system/style is sufficiently different that legitimate questions will be asked about his 'fit' with us. Im saying he fits our system, he would fit bilbaos system but not really Barca, they dont really play with a striker per se Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 11 January, 2014 Share Posted 11 January, 2014 Observation: Glasgow Saint is being mugged off in this thread. Sad to see a SWF legend fallen. #RIPGlasgow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Saint Posted 11 January, 2014 Share Posted 11 January, 2014 BACK TO TRANSFER NEWS: I see that Sunderland are in for a Argentinian CB, Santiago Vergini, 25 yrs old, 6'3",highly rated and dirt cheap, under a million, I wonder if our Argentine, ex CB coach thinks he is worth a punt. I like the possibility of getting a quality player like Fredy Guarín, his versatility as an attacking midfielder or a more central player, not to mention an ability to shoot from distance with both feet. He is supposedly wanted by Chelsea (can't see it, they are stuffed with CM). Now January is not an ideal time to buy players that are quality, because they are usually way overpriced and have very little time to adapt to a new team. But this year being a WC year you will get a lot of quality players that are wanting to get into their WC squads and pushing for a move (good for us) and some are at the end of their contracts and their clubs will be motivated to sell as to not loose out on a transfer fee (like Astori). As for Gaston and Osvaldo, I agree there is quality there, and with more integrating with the squad and system I think they will come good. I am not willing to let them go until they have a full preseason with us, which will require more patience for the fans, and this years world cup may stifle that integration even longer. If we cannot afford to hold onto a couple of promising Internationals then we have no hope of being a top 6 side, look at how many great players these big clubs have on high wages and not playing every week!at some point we will have to be able to afford to have quality players in depth. I do worry about our meteoric rise up the leagues, with the culmination of being in 3rd place earlier in the season, it lead to dreams of grandeur (i was dreaming of winning the league!, good dream that was) ahead of our squads capabilities. Not to say we can't do it, but the likes of Adam, Morgan, Jack got to improve their skills by playing match games every week for years to become the players they are. Will we give the time to JWP, Chambers, Reed and Gallager (even Ramerez) to improve their promising careers to become fully accomplished footballers, or will our desire to get to the top see us try to buy our way to the top to the detriment of our academy youth and young players. These players will take several years to be the finished articles, will we be patient enough to let this story unfold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 11 January, 2014 Share Posted 11 January, 2014 Looks like Jelavic is off to Hull. His career gone off the boil quickly, was the darling of Everton a couple of seasons back. Graham and jelavic. Steve bruce certainly doesn't buy his strikers based on current form. Fair play if he can get them two firing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 11 January, 2014 Share Posted 11 January, 2014 I'd like to see us go for a couple of players on loan as January is never the best time to buy the right players at a good price. That way if they make an impact we can look at signing them permanently in the summer. john Guidetti to give us the centre forward we need, Wilfiried Zaha to give us the right winger, pace and the ability to go past a man Ryan Bertrand to give us competition and cover at right back. All three of them need game time and been talked about as potential loans - and we need the players - and I'm sure we'd be a more attractive proposition as a destination for their parent clubs than most of the other clubs in the premier league. We're not challenging any if them for the top four, we play good football and we're not struggling at the bottom - yet. We also need a centre back but I think we are just going to have to buy one of them - Albert Botia or Hector Moreno from Spain would do dor me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 11 January, 2014 Share Posted 11 January, 2014 All of those you mention wouldnt get the game time their clubs would want. We would end up improving them for those teams as well. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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