Sunderland 2 Saints 1 - Match & Reactions

[melmacian_saint]

Of course it's down to Toni the GK coach and MP but IMO it would be more useful to elect Gazzaniga as our League Cup keeper and actually allow him to get some 1st team game time in the early rounds against lower opposition or just games where the result is not the main priority like this one as Kelvin is not going to get any better and is clearly on an exit path from his career as a footballer and we don't seem to be interested in loaning out players for development purposes.

[Saint Benali]

Am I the only one who couldn't actually care less about the league cup? I am glad we played some youngsters and gave debuts to some nippers. Rather they played in a meaningless game like this then in one where it really counts. Sure it would of been nice to get to Wembley but in terms of importance I think most (not the trolls) will agree priority = League--------Fa cup-----------------------------------league cup.

[LostBoys]

I do not rate this Cup but listening on the radio what a strange selection followed by a crap performance. I think we all know our squad is not strong enough at the moment.

[Hockey_saint]

Am I the only one who couldn't actually care less about the league cup? I am glad we played some youngsters and gave debuts to some nippers. Rather they played in a meaningless game like this then in one where it really counts. Sure it would of been nice to get to Wembley but in terms of importance I think most (not the trolls) will agree priority = League--------Fa cup-----------------------------------league cup.

 

I agree, but I remember once thinking that the league cup once meant something....maybe I was wrong.

[BlakeySFC]

Am I the only one who couldn't actually care less about the league cup? I am glad we played some youngsters and gave debuts to some nippers. Rather they played in a meaningless game like this then in one where it really counts. Sure it would of been nice to get to Wembley but in terms of importance I think most (not the trolls) will agree priority = League--------Fa cup-----------------------------------league cup.

 

This.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Just back from the game. I am quite surprised by the 'win a cup' notion on here tonight. I didn't get the feeling it existed in the two earlier rounds so not sure why it exists now? If it is because the second team should have been good enough to win in those rounds then the same excuse should be used tonight - this team was good enough to win if they performed well enough - and they didn't. We had lots of first team experience in the second string, it isn't like Pochettino left them hanging out to dry.

 

Too much focus is given to the 'rest players' reason as to why the second string played. Whilst that is a part of the reason it isn't the only one. The Manager also values giving opportunities to other players and also giving youngsters a chance to impress. A big squad on paper doesn't mean much if there isn't viable competition for the first team and the best thing the players could do tonight is play well and give the Manager selection issues. Davis has done it this season (perform well enough in the cup to earn a recall to the first team) so the Manager has proved he will change things up based on performances in this competition. It isn't an empty gesture.

 

As it goes, not many come out of tonight with any credit. K Davis, Yoshida, Hooiveld, Cork, Ramirez, and Lee all poor. S Davis, Fox and Jay-Rod ok. Chambers and Reed the better players for me. No-one else really made a case for themselves, though Gallagher had more impact on the game in 10mins than Lee did in 60. So this weekend when Pochettino selects the same 11 that started against Stoke no-one on that bench can feel aggrieved. No-one can say they don't get an opportunity, and no-one can start moaning about stuff.

 

Whilst I appreciate some will say it is hard to impress in a team full of second string players where they are not match sharp I will argue it didn't stop some in the previous rounds nor tonight (Chambers and Reed).

 

As a fan I would love a proper run at a cup and a Europa League run. I can understand why the club thinks otherwise though, and I'm not fussed that they don't fancy it themselves - certainly not to do so with any negative impact on the league form. All that money on those new signings comes from our status as a Premier League team, it doesn't come from nice little cup runs or even Europa League runs (in fact don't some teams lose money playing in that competition?). I just see the pragmatic view that puts the League Cup as an opportunity to do other things rather than a competition where you play the first team and try to win it.

[Bad Wolf]

Davis - 7

Chambers - 6

Fox - 5

Reed - 5

Yoshida - 8

26 Hooiveld - 7

09 Rodriguez -6.5

18 Cork - 6

19 Lee - 5

10 Ramírez = 4

08 Davis 6.5

[Special K]

If our first team need a rest after every Saturday game then they are not going to get very far in any European football competition are they, the poor loves. Oh dear, there is a flaw in the masterplan! If a modern day footballer cannot play 2 games a week all season, then he should have a serious look at himself, even if he does play in a super-dooper high pressing game on a Saturday.

[JoeShmoe]

Just back from the game. I am quite surprised by the 'win a cup' notion on here tonight. I didn't get the feeling it existed in the two earlier rounds so not sure why it exists now? If it is because the second team should have been good enough to win in those rounds then the same excuse should be used tonight - this team was good enough to win if they performed well enough - and they didn't. We had lots of first team experience in the second string, it isn't like Pochettino left them hanging out to dry.

 

Too much focus is given to the 'rest players' reason as to why the second string played. Whilst that is a part of the reason it isn't the only one. The Manager also values giving opportunities to other players and also giving youngsters a chance to impress. A big squad on paper doesn't mean much if there isn't viable competition for the first team and the best thing the players could do tonight is play well and give the Manager selection issues. Davis has done it this season (perform well enough in the cup to earn a recall to the first team) so the Manager has proved he will change things up based on performances in this competition. It isn't an empty gesture.

 

As it goes, not many come out of tonight with any credit. K Davis, Yoshida, Hooiveld, Cork, Ramirez, and Lee all poor. S Davis, Fox and Jay-Rod ok. Chambers and Reed the better players for me. No-one else really made a case for themselves, though Gallagher had more impact on the game in 10mins than Lee did in 60. So this weekend when Pochettino selects the same 11 that started against Stoke no-one on that bench can feel aggrieved. No-one can say they don't get an opportunity, and no-one can start moaning about stuff.

 

Whilst I appreciate some will say it is hard to impress in a team full of second string players where they are not match sharp I will argue it didn't stop some in the previous rounds nor tonight (Chambers and Reed).

 

As a fan I would love a proper run at a cup and a Europa League run. I can understand why the club thinks otherwise though, and I'm not fussed that they don't fancy it themselves - certainly not to do so with any negative impact on the league form. All that money on those new signings comes from our status as a Premier League team, it doesn't come from nice little cup runs or even Europa League runs (in fact don't some teams lose money playing in that competition?). I just see the pragmatic view that puts the League Cup as an opportunity to do other things rather than a competition where you play the first team and try to win it.

 

Best post of the night by a very long country mile

 

Couldn't agree more with all you've said. I think we have a core of deadweight players who need to be moved on with a view to bringing through better youngsters. And you don't know that until they get a chance. Shame Isgrove and Rowe didn't play tonight and there was a case to play Targett and Stephens

 

People ought to remember it was in these sorts of games we brought through players like JWP and Shaw

[trousers]

If our first team need a rest after every Saturday game then they are not going to get very far in any European football competition are they, the poor loves. Oh dear, there is a flaw in the masterplan! If a modern day footballer cannot play 2 games a week all season, then he should have a serious look at himself, even if he does play in a super-dooper high pressing game on a Saturday.

 

See post #557

[Barry Sanchez]

When didn´t it reward a European spot then?

 

Does it? I always thought it was only awarded if the winner qualifed for Champions League?

[CB Fry]

When didn´t it reward a European spot then?

 

I know you are habitually wrong but just to make the point...

 

The last time 6th didn't deliver a European spot was way, way, way back in the 2012-2013 season. Last season.

[Barry Sanchez]

I know you are habitually wrong but just to make the point...

 

The last time 6th didn't deliver a European spot was way, way, way back in the 2012-2013 season. Last season.

 

He thought 6th place automatically gave us a European spot, the lad does not even know the rules of qualification for entry into European competition, go easy on him, the people advocating this decision I also presume never went to JPT or ZDS?

Hypocrites many of them and a typical modern day fan, premiership or nothing, regardless of whether we win anything.

[DT]

Just back from the game. I am quite surprised by the 'win a cup' notion on here tonight. I didn't get the feeling it existed in the two earlier rounds so not sure why it exists now? If it is because the second team should have been good enough to win in those rounds then the same excuse should be used tonight - this team was good enough to win if they performed well enough - and they didn't. We had lots of first team experience in the second string, it isn't like Pochettino left them hanging out to dry.

 

Too much focus is given to the 'rest players' reason as to why the second string played. Whilst that is a part of the reason it isn't the only one. The Manager also values giving opportunities to other players and also giving youngsters a chance to impress. A big squad on paper doesn't mean much if there isn't viable competition for the first team and the best thing the players could do tonight is play well and give the Manager selection issues. Davis has done it this season (perform well enough in the cup to earn a recall to the first team) so the Manager has proved he will change things up based on performances in this competition. It isn't an empty gesture.

 

As it goes, not many come out of tonight with any credit. K Davis, Yoshida, Hooiveld, Cork, Ramirez, and Lee all poor. S Davis, Fox and Jay-Rod ok. Chambers and Reed the better players for me. No-one else really made a case for themselves, though Gallagher had more impact on the game in 10mins than Lee did in 60. So this weekend when Pochettino selects the same 11 that started against Stoke no-one on that bench can feel aggrieved. No-one can say they don't get an opportunity, and no-one can start moaning about stuff.

 

Whilst I appreciate some will say it is hard to impress in a team full of second string players where they are not match sharp I will argue it didn't stop some in the previous rounds nor tonight (Chambers and Reed).

 

As a fan I would love a proper run at a cup and a Europa League run. I can understand why the club thinks otherwise though, and I'm not fussed that they don't fancy it themselves - certainly not to do so with any negative impact on the league form. All that money on those new signings comes from our status as a Premier League team, it doesn't come from nice little cup runs or even Europa League runs (in fact don't some teams lose money playing in that competition?). I just see the pragmatic view that puts the League Cup as an opportunity to do other things rather than a competition where you play the first team and try to win it.

 

Excellent post, well argued.

[Barry Sanchez]

I always thought we played as a team to win things, sad day for the club if we are there merely to attend and not try and win things, are we a dog?

[Batman]

If our first team need a rest after every Saturday game then they are not going to get very far in any European football competition are they, the poor loves. Oh dear, there is a flaw in the masterplan! If a modern day footballer cannot play 2 games a week all season, then he should have a serious look at himself, even if he does play in a super-dooper high pressing game on a Saturday.

 

Look at himself? Why does nearly every club rest players then?

 

I am amazed people are so surprised that many of our fringe players are not that good

[Batman]

I dread to see the utter disgust and contempt for the club when we actually lose a game...... At home

[Joensuu]

Slim chances of winning the cup, even had we beaten Sunderland. Some on here are talking as if we threw away the cup, almost as if they think it virtually had our name on it already.

 

Had we progressed, we would have started taking it more seriously in later rounds. Sunderland are crazy playing such an experience team, they're doubtful to progress far, and really should be focussing on the real competition, their league placement.

 

I think we've sensibly prioritised the league, and IMO are far more likely to get a Europa place via league than cup. I do wish the more extreme on here would calm down.

[Barry Sanchez]

Slim chances of winning the cup, even had we beaten Sunderland. Some on here are talking as if we threw away the cup, almost as if they think it virtually had our name on it already.

 

Had we progressed, we would have started taking it more seriously in later rounds. Sunderland are crazy playing such an experience team, they're doubtful to progress far, and really should be focussing on the real competition, their league placement.

 

I think we've sensibly prioritised the league, and IMO are far more likely to get a Europa place via league than cup. I do wish the more extreme on here would calm down.

 

Far more likely?

 

Finish above 3 of the below to assure a European competition we had a possible chance of getting after 4 games as opposed to 38.

What 3?

Spurs

Everton

Liverpool

United

City

Chelsea

Arsenal

 

Good as chance now? No I think not, its not about silverware now and thats very very sad, what is the point?

[Cricketphilly]

Let's be honest the Europa League is a ginger stepson! Not enough money in it to buy players and you end up playing a load more games. It's Champion's league or nothing as far as i'm concerned.

[orchardsaint]

Just back from the game. I am quite surprised by the 'win a cup' notion on here tonight. I didn't get the feeling it existed in the two earlier rounds so not sure why it exists now? If it is because the second team should have been good enough to win in those rounds then the same excuse should be used tonight - this team was good enough to win if they performed well enough - and they didn't. We had lots of first team experience in the second string, it isn't like Pochettino left them hanging out to dry.

 

Too much focus is given to the 'rest players' reason as to why the second string played. Whilst that is a part of the reason it isn't the only one. The Manager also values giving opportunities to other players and also giving youngsters a chance to impress. A big squad on paper doesn't mean much if there isn't viable competition for the first team and the best thing the players could do tonight is play well and give the Manager selection issues. Davis has done it this season (perform well enough in the cup to earn a recall to the first team) so the Manager has proved he will change things up based on performances in this competition. It isn't an empty gesture.

 

As it goes, not many come out of tonight with any credit. K Davis, Yoshida, Hooiveld, Cork, Ramirez, and Lee all poor. S Davis, Fox and Jay-Rod ok. Chambers and Reed the better players for me. No-one else really made a case for themselves, though Gallagher had more impact on the game in 10mins than Lee did in 60. So this weekend when Pochettino selects the same 11 that started against Stoke no-one on that bench can feel aggrieved. No-one can say they don't get an opportunity, and no-one can start moaning about stuff.

 

Whilst I appreciate some will say it is hard to impress in a team full of second string players where they are not match sharp I will argue it didn't stop some in the previous rounds nor tonight (Chambers and Reed).

 

As a fan I would love a proper run at a cup and a Europa League run. I can understand why the club thinks otherwise though, and I'm not fussed that they don't fancy it themselves - certainly not to do so with any negative impact on the league form. All that money on those new signings comes from our status as a Premier League team, it doesn't come from nice little cup runs or even Europa League runs (in fact don't some teams lose money playing in that competition?). I just see the pragmatic view that puts the League Cup as an opportunity to do other things rather than a competition where you play the first team and try to win it.

 

Sorry, but you will not get far on here coming out with normal, well balanced views of our club. You have just shown yourself up as a clear minded free thinking person. Why did you bother? By the way, I agree with you, but let's not say anything, some on here will go mental.

[yorkie]

As I managed to go last night here are my views:

I went to watch a game of football between 2-Premiership sides and be entertained. Unfortunately neither side were worthy of the tag - and at times I was convinced neither team wanted to win.

At times it was almost like watching the first eleven - just not as good. From the back - Davis's districbution was woeful. The back four played it across the back confidently and never looked in any trouble. Fox was virtually a left winger most of the time - but his delivery was woeful too. It's not until you watch a game like last night do you realise what a difference the first eleven offer. We looked sluggish, lacked pace and seemed to slow everything up at every opportunity.

Midfield was OK ish - Cork, Reed and Davis were all in the game but did little to get the team moving. Probably too defensive oriented.

Forwards - JRod looked menacing all night; Lee did a lot of running but either his runs or the teams passing always managed to pass him by or hit his heels! I don't think his future is in this country at the top level. Then there was Gaston - what can I say? He gets pushed off the ball too easily; gets niggled and has a nibble at opponents when he loses possession; lots of fancy touches - but no end result! He should have buried one on half time but blazed it over - the only real chance created in the first half.

The second half wasn't much better - and like many cynical older fans I knew what to expect - and sure enough a needless set piece given away and a calamity spill - 1-0. Changes made us look a bit more interested and then caught on the break.

Well that was enough for me - if I take anything away from last nights game - forget the FACup too - it will be an opportunity for the reserves to play again. European qualification through the league is obviously the target for this season.

Individually any of the team last nigh could slot in and do a job except for a couple. The defence doesn't look as composed with Davis in goal; Fox is caught out of position too much (but I felt he didn't get much support or cover); Gaston - for a £12-m player he doesn't look the part to me, not sure what it is I think it's attitude. The high pressing game is not his style and I think he needs another club. Sorry to say Tadanari Lee just isn't on the same level.

I know I went to watch a game of football, and like every fan wanted my team to win. Useful exercise - not convinced.

One final word about the fans - boy have we got some real to55ers following us these days. Sure they sing - but what do they sing. At one stage last night after confrontation with stewards for standing up we got chorus after chorus of "We ****ing hate you" - how does that support the team? Must be getting old as once upon a time I might be amused at the antics of exuberant youth - but honestly I was embarassed for them!

I will look forward to Saturday and the game against Hull as it will be the real deal. I have no worries about the defeat, the overall performance as I know know normal service will be resumed then.

For those of you who go to SMS regularly - you really don't know how lucky you are to have a first team like us to watch. Going last night really brought it home big time!

[raynesparksaint]

Our first team has barely changed all season, we have been lucky so far that we have been able to keep a settled side. This is in spite of the exertions of the high-pressing game. However, we know it won't last forever.

 

Playing first teamers would have tired them out further, not taught us anything knew, and wasted an opportunity not to have a look at the depth of our squad and give them some match time. Yes it came at the cost of going out of a cup competition, but as many have said on here, the competition is not regarded highly by any PL team or their fans. Our result wasn't even mentioned by Jeff after the CL games last night! Yes a trip to Wembley would have been great, but even had we won last night, it would still have been a long way off.

 

Maybe I'm a glass-full kind of guy but I didn't think the performance was a disgrace last night. Looking at the positives, we got the chance to give academy players an outing and we learned that some of our fringe players aren't up to it. It should make MP and NC realise they need to bolster the squad in January... new LB in particular. Or even give Targett a chance.. judging by the rest of the academy graduates, they look more at home than a lot of the Lees, Hooivelds etc.

 

As for trophies, Arsenal fans have more to complain about than us in recent seasons. Do you think this morning they are still cursing last week's Chelsea defeat?

[John Boy Saint]

Just woken up in my hotel in Sheffield

 

Reading some of the above match thoughts, there seems to be a bit of a "we should have steamrollered Sunderland as they are bottom of the league" attitude. They had a larger slice of first teamers out on the pitch than us, and whilst some of them looked really bad there were others who under new management were out to impress the the new boss.

We on the other hand had players who despite training all together who don't play every week and you could see the telepathy was not there or match sharpness.

That said we did play in the same style as the first team so at least there is an understanding of the system if called upon.

Their first goal was a 6 yard box lottery with the ball & players everywhere as soon as Kelvin was on his backside the target just got even more tempting. Their second goal was was a bit more measured with a bit of good fortune but when the ball went out to our left there was and area the size of the New Forest for the Sunderland player to make the most of.

 

With our 1st eleven not smashing in goals from all over the park, the final third fizzle out also applied more so with last nights team. Rather bizarrely I would like to see Lee brought on in the latter stages of games as he does buzz about like a hornet and seemed to be showing for a pass that never came or when it did was at him rather for him to work with.

Jack Cork seemed to be his usual putting himself about winning balls passing well, still unlike the Brick outhouse and his Ninja buddy who will have a crack at goal, he gets towards the 18yard box then just just takes the soft passing option: have a go mate otherwise until suspension or injury presents an opportunity you will be sitting on the bench for a while.

Then there is the enigma that is Gaston Ramirez, the lad obviously has talent but he gets the ball and slows down and as a result is instantly swarmed and overcome by opposition players, there was a moment in the first half where basically what he decided to do was woeful, from our lofty perch you had a good view of everything, looking at MP just moments after he just looked at the floor arms crossed and scuffed the head off a worm that had just popped his head of the ground in the technical area: did not look impressed. Second half I forgot that he was still on the pitch when he was subbed. If he us still here on Feb 1st I will be very surprised.

 

The player who impressed me on the night was young Master Reed, he looked very comfortable and combative, although in the second half not quite sure what his instructions were from MP but he went on a few meanders from left back to almost right wing on one occasion to hunt down the ball, this aside, I think we have another able Academy player about to be pushing for a first team start.

 

Bit of a shame not to have progressed further. Still interesting evening out at a ground I haven't been to before.

[The Kraken]

Am I the only one who couldn't actually care less about the league cup? I am glad we played some youngsters and gave debuts to some nippers. Rather they played in a meaningless game like this then in one where it really counts. Sure it would of been nice to get to Wembley but in terms of importance I think most (not the trolls) will agree priority = League--------Fa cup-----------------------------------league cup.

 

You're not the only one Benny, but it's a shame you have such a simplistic take on things that anyone who doesn't share your POV is a "troll"(ironically that's rather troll-like behaviour in itself, but that's by the by.

 

I maintain that progress in the league and trying to win a cup are not mutually exclusive efforts. So, for me, it was a shame we didn't make more of this opportunity.

[tajjuk]

Wow 12 pages really? We lost a league cup game away to a full strength Sunderland team with our B team, and only narrowly.

 

Not sure that needs twelve pages of reaction. I suspect certain posters have been waiting for the 'fall' to jump all over it, sorry to say this isn't it. Clutching at straws comes to mind.

 

Fresh players for a winnable game on Saturday.

[Joensuu]

Barry, unfortunately my phone insists on showing me your posts despite having you on ignore.

 

Why would we need to finish above three of the 7 listed teams to get a Europa place? Surely we'd need to better only one of them to finish sixth? (or looking at the remaining league cup teams, 7th might well be enough.

[Dig Dig]

Would love to see the reaction if we had played a strong side a picked up an injury or two to key players.

 

For all the talk of silverwear or lack of it, how many similarly sized clubs have won the league cup recently and been better off for it? You'll find a couple in the championship and another doing much worst than they did last season. Apparently people wouldn't mind if that was us but I don't believe it for a second.

[trousers]

Wow 12 pages really? We lost a league cup game away to a full strength Sunderland team with our B team, and only narrowly.

 

Not sure that needs twelve pages of reaction.

 

This was also the match thread

[alpine_saint]

Wow 12 pages really? We lost a league cup game away to a full strength Sunderland team with our B team, and only narrowly.

 

Not sure that needs twelve pages of reaction. I suspect certain posters have been waiting for the 'fall' to jump all over it, sorry to say this isn't it. Clutching at straws comes to mind.

 

Fresh players for a winnable game on Saturday.

 

Its not 12 pages of reaction. This is the match thread, and the title was changed by a mod last night after the final whistle.

[Cabrone]

Dissapointing, not because we lost as Sunderland aren't a bad team (too much disrespect generally on here) but because we tamely surrendered a quarter final place in a major cup by selecting a second string XI.

 

Why was Kelvin playing? He's at the end of his career - Boruc should have been on and if not Boruc then Gazzaniga - assuming he was fit.

 

We should be going for it in all competitions otherwise what's the point? It's not as if we have a trophy cabinet bulging with silverware is it.

 

Fans want to win things and the attitude that the league cup is irrelevant is pretty sad IMO.

[alpine_saint]

Since NC had the strength of will to get rid of NA at the time he did, I am confident that The Gash will be off somewhere else in January.

[Bucks Saint]

As I managed to go last night here are my views:

I went to watch a game of football between 2-Premiership sides and be entertained. Unfortunately neither side were worthy of the tag - and at times I was convinced neither team wanted to win.

At times it was almost like watching the first eleven - just not as good. From the back - Davis's districbution was woeful. The back four played it across the back confidently and never looked in any trouble. Fox was virtually a left winger most of the time - but his delivery was woeful too. It's not until you watch a game like last night do you realise what a difference the first eleven offer. We looked sluggish, lacked pace and seemed to slow everything up at every opportunity.

Midfield was OK ish - Cork, Reed and Davis were all in the game but did little to get the team moving. Probably too defensive oriented.

Forwards - JRod looked menacing all night; Lee did a lot of running but either his runs or the teams passing always managed to pass him by or hit his heels! I don't think his future is in this country at the top level. Then there was Gaston - what can I say? He gets pushed off the ball too easily; gets niggled and has a nibble at opponents when he loses possession; lots of fancy touches - but no end result! He should have buried one on half time but blazed it over - the only real chance created in the first half.

The second half wasn't much better - and like many cynical older fans I knew what to expect - and sure enough a needless set piece given away and a calamity spill - 1-0. Changes made us look a bit more interested and then caught on the break.

Well that was enough for me - if I take anything away from last nights game - forget the FACup too - it will be an opportunity for the reserves to play again. European qualification through the league is obviously the target for this season.

Individually any of the team last nigh could slot in and do a job except for a couple. The defence doesn't look as composed with Davis in goal; Fox is caught out of position too much (but I felt he didn't get much support or cover); Gaston - for a £12-m player he doesn't look the part to me, not sure what it is I think it's attitude. The high pressing game is not his style and I think he needs another club. Sorry to say Tadanari Lee just isn't on the same level.

I know I went to watch a game of football, and like every fan wanted my team to win. Useful exercise - not convinced.

One final word about the fans - boy have we got some real to55ers following us these days. Sure they sing - but what do they sing. At one stage last night after confrontation with stewards for standing up we got chorus after chorus of "We ****ing hate you" - how does that support the team? Must be getting old as once upon a time I might be amused at the antics of exuberant youth - but honestly I was embarassed for them!

I will look forward to Saturday and the game against Hull as it will be the real deal. I have no worries about the defeat, the overall performance as I know know normal service will be resumed then.

For those of you who go to SMS regularly - you really don't know how lucky you are to have a first team like us to watch. Going last night really brought it home big time!

 

Thanks for the sensible, informative post, its appreciated

[hutch]

You're not the only one Benny, but it's a shame you have such a simplistic take on things that anyone who doesn't share your POV is a "troll"(ironically that's rather troll-like behaviour in itself, but that's by the by.

 

I maintain that progress in the league and trying to win a cup are not mutually exclusive efforts. So, for me, it was a shame we didn't make more of this opportunity.

That bit I can agree with, but many seem to be demanding it right now.

 

In my own opinion, a team that is stabilised and consolidated in the top third of the premier league is much more likely to achieve success in European qualification and domestic cups in years to come. We aren't consolidated there yet, but I'm pretty sure that's where the focus is, and with Cortese's dogged perseverance, we will be in the near future.

[Saint_Tony]

When, exactly, are we meant to give players like Davis, Hooiveld etc. a run out during the season, apart from injury? Surely this competition is the best opportunity to give them game time? It's a squad game, and you can't just leave them on the sidelines all season. All we've done is what half the other teams in this competition have, and this season a lot of Championship sides have also put out a 'weakened' team. Anyway, this thread has become very tedious, just the usual people trying to put down everyone's opinions. We lost. We're out the cup.It's not the biggest disaster ever. Now let's all get behind the team and hope we take 3 points at the weekend

[trousers]

Since NC had the strength of will to get rid of NA at the time he did, I am confident that The Gash will be off somewhere else in January.

 

Alps me ol' mucker, I was wondering if you could help me out? My short term memory is dreadful. As such its difficult for me to keep pace with everyone's opinions on here. If you could post the above opinion of Ramirez every day for the next 2 months that would be a great help. Cheers mate.

[The Kraken]

Would love to see the reaction if we had played a strong side a picked up an injury or two to key players.

 

For all the talk of silverwear or lack of it, how many similarly sized clubs have won the league cup recently and been better off for it? You'll find a couple in the championship and another doing much worst than they did last season. Apparently people wouldn't mind if that was us but I don't believe it for a second.

Come on Diggers, you're better than that, you can see through the black and white of it. What about the reaction had we played a few more first framers, won the game and come through entirely unscathed by injury. Then it would have been a risk worth taking.

 

ultimately it comes down to opinion so there's little point saying one way or the other is wrong. Some think the League Cup is just an irritation to league progress; fair enough, but others see a little different, and while league form is of course the main priority there might just be room for other priorities too.

 

I remember similar debates in JPT year when people said cut progress would hinder promotion chasing, yet there was little evidence to suggest it was the case either way (in fact our league form got better and better the further we got in the cup).

[Bearsy]

We are a little bit disappointed to be out of the cup because it was an important competition for us to provide minutes for our squad and for our youngsters

 

Cheers SFC! I was wondering bout the good fans who went up to the game - would you of bothered if the club made this sort of statement beforehand?

[Shroppie]

Wasn’t going to bother posting but can’t resist replying to some of the misguided (IMO) comments on here.

 

Firstly, as has been pointed out by a few sensible posters, winning this game would not have given us a particularly good chance of winning the cup. We would have faced Chelsea at home, then a two-leg semi and final all against, in all probability, top teams.

And if we had won, the dilemma of what team to put out against Chelsea would have been even greater. Obviously the “win a cup at all costs” camp would have expected a full strength team and I agree that progression would probably have been unlikely playing the team we had out tonight.

 

Two points about that are, firstly, whether it is fair on the B team who have got us so far to be replaced once there’s the chance of actually winning something? And secondly, the next round falls a few days after what will be a long trip and probably tough game away at Newcastle and before Spurs at home. Not an ideal time to have the first team playing an extra game, and potentially 120 minutes. Add to that the risk of injuries, cards and suspensions and it would have made a difficult decision.

 

But more significantly for me, to win this cup we would have to beat (probably) Chelsea and two out of Man City, Man Utd and Spurs. Is it really more likely that we could do that in the cup than in the league? And if we can do it in the league, who can say 4^th place would be out of the question?

Also can’t help wondering if some of those disappointed at the loss last night (I’m disappointed, don’t think I ever like Saints losing) are just sorry to be missing out on a chance of seeing Chelsea.

 

I don’t expect to change any opinions but I agree totally with the team put out last night and the philosophy of using the Capital One Cup to give fringe players game time and the chance to impress, blood youngsters, rest key first team players and minimise risk of injuries and suspensions.

 

Move on. Three points on Saturday!

[JoeShmoe]

Wow 12 pages really? We lost a league cup game away to a full strength Sunderland team with our B team, and only narrowly.

 

Not sure that needs twelve pages of reaction. I suspect certain posters have been waiting for the 'fall' to jump all over it, sorry to say this isn't it. Clutching at straws comes to mind.

 

Fresh players for a winnable game on Saturday.

 

8 pages are Barry and his verbal diarrhoea

[shurlock]

Come on Diggers, you're better than that, you can see through the black and white of it. What about the reaction had we played a few more first framers, won the game and come through entirely unscathed by injury. Then it would have been a risk worth taking.

 

ultimately it comes down to opinion so there's little point saying one way or the other is wrong. Some think the League Cup is just an irritation to league progress; fair enough, but others see a little different, and while league form is of course the main priority there might just be room for other priorities too.

 

I remember similar debates in JPT year when people said cut progress would hinder promotion chasing, yet there was little evidence to suggest it was the case either way (in fact our league form got better and better the further we got in the cup).

 

They picked up a few injuries -and they were more than minor niggles.

 

Where there's a will, there's a way....

 

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/while-we-won-there-was-a-few-negatives.833405/

[trousers]

Cheers SFC! I was wondering bout the good fans who went up to the game - would you of bothered if the club made this sort of statement beforehand?

 

You're not suggesting that some Saints fans aren't clever enough to have worked this out themselves are you... ?

[shirleysfc]

Since NC had the strength of will to get rid of NA at the time he did, I am confident that The Gash will be off somewhere else in January.

 

 

It will be fun watching the meltdown when he's still here at the end of the transfer window.

[Bearsy]

You're not suggesting that some Saints fans aren't clever enough to have worked this out themselves are you... ?

 

haha yeah maybe! I didn't realise it was entirely just about giving match practise to Kelvin Davis tho! I thought we might have some interest in winning the ****ing thing!

 

I am also a "little bit dissappointed", but not just cos Danny Fox might lack opportunities to play!

[captainchris]

Just back from the game. I am quite surprised by the 'win a cup' notion on here tonight. I didn't get the feeling it existed in the two earlier rounds so not sure why it exists now? If it is because the second team should have been good enough to win in those rounds then the same excuse should be used tonight - this team was good enough to win if they performed well enough - and they didn't. We had lots of first team experience in the second string, it isn't like Pochettino left them hanging out to dry.

 

Too much focus is given to the 'rest players' reason as to why the second string played. Whilst that is a part of the reason it isn't the only one. The Manager also values giving opportunities to other players and also giving youngsters a chance to impress. A big squad on paper doesn't mean much if there isn't viable competition for the first team and the best thing the players could do tonight is play well and give the Manager selection issues. Davis has done it this season (perform well enough in the cup to earn a recall to the first team) so the Manager has proved he will change things up based on performances in this competition. It isn't an empty gesture.

 

As it goes, not many come out of tonight with any credit. K Davis, Yoshida, Hooiveld, Cork, Ramirez, and Lee all poor. S Davis, Fox and Jay-Rod ok. Chambers and Reed the better players for me. No-one else really made a case for themselves, though Gallagher had more impact on the game in 10mins than Lee did in 60. So this weekend when Pochettino selects the same 11 that started against Stoke no-one on that bench can feel aggrieved. No-one can say they don't get an opportunity, and no-one can start moaning about stuff.

 

Whilst I appreciate some will say it is hard to impress in a team full of second string players where they are not match sharp I will argue it didn't stop some in the previous rounds nor tonight (Chambers and Reed).

 

As a fan I would love a proper run at a cup and a Europa League run. I can understand why the club thinks otherwise though, and I'm not fussed that they don't fancy it themselves - certainly not to do so with any negative impact on the league form. All that money on those new signings comes from our status as a Premier League team, it doesn't come from nice little cup runs or even Europa League runs (in fact don't some teams lose money playing in that competition?). I just see the pragmatic view that puts the League Cup as an opportunity to do other things rather than a competition where you play the first team and try to win it.

 

Fox- but where was he when they scored their first goal? Granted he was slightly better than usual but well, still Fox - missing at critical moments....

[bender]

Nope, gets you into qualification rounds. 4 extra games in August if you want to qualify for Europa League competition.

 

What if you win the FA cup (or come 2nd assuming a top five team wins it) ?? At what point do you enter the competition then?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Fox- but where was he when they scored their first goal? Granted he was slightly better than usual but well, still Fox - missing at critical moments....

 

I haven't seen the goals back on TV so I will need to check who was marking who from the free kick. Whomever was marking Wes Brown is at fault for that, as they completely lost him. Just because Wes Brown headed it back across the box from the far post doesn't mean Fox is at fault for that one (unless he was of course marking him).

 

The second goal came after an awful pass from Cork made us lose possession as we were chasing the equaliser. It was an awful shunt forward that was devoid of ideas or technique (it looked a very tired pass to me).

[trousers]

the next round falls a few days after what will be a long trip and probably tough game away at Newcastle and before Spurs at home. Not an ideal time to have the first team playing an extra game, and potentially 120 minutes. Add to that the risk of injuries, cards and suspensions and it would have made a difficult decision.

 

Indeed. We've already got 7 (seven) games in December. I'm convinced Pochettino would have played the 'B team' vs Chelsea had we progressed last night, thus giving rise to yet more toys being thrown out of prams across SaintsWeb Forum land in the next round.

 

 

to win this cup we would have to beat (probably) Chelsea and two out of Man City, Man Utd and Spurs. Is it really more likely that we could do that in the cup than in the league? And if we can do it in the league, who can say 4^th place would be out of the question?

 

[SB]

I'll say it again for all those bed wetters, we didn't go there to win.

[Bearsy]

I'll say it again for all those bed wetters, we didn't go there to win.

 

Before the game ponch said the exact opposite!