Sunderland 2 Saints 1 - Match & Reactions

[Barry Sanchez]

The same bookies who went 9/1 after Arsenal got thumped by Aston Villa?

 

Never wrong bookies.

 

Cue Card 10/11 favourite - third. As I know to my cost.

 

I backed us at 16/1 to win the Championship. We missed out by one fecking point.

 

This is not to win, this is for a place in the top 4, different altogether.

[The Kraken]

Well, if you want to look at those options you might want to read a bit up the thread to see who brought that up....

 

Answer....Not me.

I was just responding to your plate of nonsense, I have no time at this late hour for anyone else's.

[Turkish]

Are the trolls even disappointed about losing or are they too happy about being right?

 

C'mon Turks, Barry, Mr X, you must be just a little bummed?

 

You're weird and haven't even read the thread properly. Go on have a go, see what I said about how seriously we should take this completion. You might also learn which player I was saying I was right about, here a clue, it ain't Ramirez.

[Fowllyd]

What I was trying to say was I would always have the silverware, others understood it, you ok?

 

How does saying that you couldn't believe some of our fans would rather we finished 17th and won a cup equate with wanting the silverware then?

[Olallana]

But it isn't a choice is it. The premier league haven't given us one or the other, it's not either or is it.

 

Nope, its a hypothetical approach to the discussion.

As many of the discussions on this forum is, cant be that new to you??

[modern matron]

Fixed it for you, and that would be me alone then.....(and many players that would be attracted to the club but who cares about that...)

 

So players are attracted to a club only by league position? Anyway league position and cup success are not linked and I think winning things attract players.....

[Legod Third Coming]

This is not to win, this is for a place in the top 4, different altogether.

 

Bookies make mistakes. They under-rate us and our manager. What price we are makes not one iota of difference to where we will finish.

I don't expect us to finish 4th, but if we are trying to do so, I understand and support that decision totally.

[LGTL]

What the hell are we resting from anyway? A home game against Hull and then two weeks without a game.

 

No reason at all why more first teamers couldn't have been involved and get a result.

[Olallana]

I was just responding to your plate of nonsense, I have no time at this late hour for anyone else's.

 

And I was responding to someone elses hypothetical discussion, still I´m responsible for a plate of nonsense.....blimey....

 

Might want to check the background to posts before you slam them, dont you think that´s fair???

[Legod Third Coming]

So players are attracted to a club only by league position? Anyway league position and cup success are not linked and I think winning things attract players.....

 

Mainly yes. League position dictates budget. Budget dictates salary. Pretty simple.

[Turkish]

Nope, its a hypothetical approach to the discussion.

As many of the discussions on this forum is, cant be that new to you??

 

But it's nonsense as it isn't a real choice. Surely the aim for every club, manager and Player is to win every game which by default means that you should try and win every completion you enter.

[Olallana]

So players are attracted to a club only by league position? Anyway league position and cup success are not linked and I think winning things attract players.....

 

Tell me, how many great players were offering themselves to Wigan this summer?

[Turkish]

Mainly yes. League position dictates budget. Budget dictates salary. Pretty simple.

 

So why did Ramirez and forren chose is over Liverpool?

[Barry Sanchez]

How does saying that you couldn't believe some of our fans would rather we finished 17th and won a cup equate with wanting the silverware then?

 

 

What number was that post, written poorly by myself or edited, I shall clarify, silverware and a lower league position.

[Turkish]

Tell me, how many great players were offering themselves to Wigan this summer?

 

So why did Ramirez and forren chose is over Liverpool?

 

Please explain.

[Olallana]

But it's nonsense as it isn't a real choice. Surely the aim for every club, manager and Player is to win every game which by default means that you should try and win every completion you enter.

 

Of course it is and I think we tried to win tonight but not at all cost.

 

My discussion with Barry was hypothetical, and if you dont like those kind of discussions it´s very easy to dont bother about them...

[Junior Mullet]

Some of you guys need to put the keyboard down and go and have sex. Chill out guys.

[Olallana]

Please explain.

 

Please show proofs of them getting offers from Liverpool.

[Graffito]

'Originally Posted by Olallana

Tell me, how many great players were offering themselves to Wigan this summer?

Originally Posted by Turkish

So why did Ramirez and forren chose is over Liverpool?

Please explain.'

 

Maybe Liverpool chose not to sign them and maybe they were right.

 

Please explain.

[Barry Sanchez]

Of course it is and I think we tried to win tonight but not at all cost.

 

My discussion with Barry was hypothetical, and if you dont like those kind of discussions it´s very easy to dont bother about them...

 

 

You did not reply to my previous questions to you

 

Does 6th place give European football?

Why does 6th place automatically assure betters players?

[Legod Third Coming]

So why did Ramirez and forren chose is over Liverpool?

 

Did they? Says who? Of course playing a game rather than being on the bench might also come into it.

But I can't believe many agents take a check of who won last year's Capital One/Rumbelows/Milk/Coca-Cola/Worthington's Cup before they have a little shufty at the EPL table do you? Seriously?

[modern matron]

Mainly yes. League position dictates budget. Budget dictates salary. Pretty simple.

 

Rubbish Ramirez, Lovren, Wanyama, Osvaldo joined us because of our league position last season?? Wages and contracts determined that.....

[Turkish]

Please show proofs of them getting offers from Liverpool.

 

Sure. Spurs as as well for Ramirez

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/tottenham-target-gaston-ramirez-turns-1260256

 

http://metro.co.uk/2012/08/17/gaston-ramirez-snubs-spurs-and-liverpool-to-sign-for-southampton-540202/

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/vegard-forren-to-liverpool-norwegian-defender-1534344

 

Now what was that about only signing due to league position?

[Legod Third Coming]

Rubbish Ramirez, Lovren, Wanyama, Osvaldo joined us because of our league position last season?? Wages and contracts determined that.....

 

Correct. Which is why they didn't join Wigan right?

 

We're agreed. Because we finished higher than Wigan they joined us.

 

So they joined a team higher up the football league than a cup winner.

[Turkish]

Did they? Says who? Of course playing a game rather than being on the bench might also come into it.

But I can't believe many agents take a check of who won last year's Capital One/Rumbelows/Milk/Coca-Cola/Worthington's Cup before they have a little shufty at the EPL table do you? Seriously?

 

I've provided links. Of course this might be just lazy, lying scumbag journos, it's difficult to know on this mongboard which stories we believe and the ones we don't.

[Olallana]

You did not reply to my previous questions to you

 

Does 6th place give European football?

Why does 6th place automatically assure betters players?

 

Thought I had answered that amongst my three points earlier....my apologies..

 

6th place normally does, when was the last time it didn´t? (no this one I didn´t answer earlier).

 

6th place means that you are actually getting closer to the top 4 that gives you the opportunity to go into CL competition which, as I said, is the aim for most players if you look at their individual goals in their careers. If you finish 12th-ish you have a long long way to go to be close to CL.

6th place also gives you more £ which attracts better players.

[Legod Third Coming]

I've provided links. Of course this might be just lazy, lying scumbag journos, it's difficult to know on this mongboard which stories we believe and the ones we don't.

 

I can't be arsed with this debate again...

 

Journalist has contacts. Contacts give stories. Contacts are:

 

1. Player.

2. Agent.

3. Football Club PR.

 

They don't make anything up. They report what someone tells them. Someone with a motivation.

[CB Fry]

Did they? Says who? Of course playing a game rather than being on the bench might also come into it.

But I can't believe many agents take a check of who won last year's Capital One/Rumbelows/Milk/Coca-Cola/Worthington's Cup before they have a little shufty at the EPL table do you? Seriously?

 

Who finished fourth last time the league cup was called the Rumbelow's cup?

 

I'm sure Chris Samba's agent certainly studied the league table in great detail before recommending his client jump feet first into the Redknapp revolution at QPR.

[Graffito]

But it's nonsense as it isn't a real choice. Surely the aim for every club, manager and Player is to win every game which by default means that you should try and win every completion you enter.

 

It is, but there's a danger you could win the battle and lose the war. There's a short term objective and a medium/long term aim to all this. It's a question of balance and judgement not black and white either/ or. We'd all love silverware, that's a given, but it seems the club has chosen to use the LC as a way of developing the squad and they're not the only ones to make that judgement. We have more invested in our academy than many others and potentially more to gain in the medium/long term. At the same time we want to finish higher in the league year on year. It seems a sensible approach to me much as I'd love to relive '76.

[Legod Third Coming]

Who finished fourth last time the league cup was called the Rumbelow's cup?

 

Chris Samba's agent certainly studied the league table in great detail before recommending his client jump feet first into the Redknapp revolution at QPR.

 

I'm willing to bet the answer is irrelevant as the CL didn't exist when it was called the Rumbelow's Cup - might be wrong. I'm not a football historian.

[Barry Sanchez]

Thought I had answered that amongst my three points earlier....my apologies..

 

6th place normally does, when was the last time it didn´t? (no this one I didn´t answer earlier).

 

6th place means that you are actually getting closer to the top 4 that gives you the opportunity to go into CL competition which, as I said, is the aim for most players if you look at their individual goals in their careers. If you finish 12th-ish you have a long long way to go to be close to CL.

6th place also gives you more £ which attracts better players.

Normally? Go on.

[Turkish]

I can't be arsed with this debate again...

 

Journalist has contacts. Contacts give stories. Contacts are:

 

1. Player.

2. Agent.

3. Football Club PR.

 

They don't make anything up. They report what someone tells them. Someone with a motivation.

 

Ahh right so the offers didn't exist, it was all talk from someone with a motivation to make it appear that spurs and Liverpool wanted them. The back slapping on here about us beating Liverpool to players was all bulls*it then, glad we cleared that up.

[Legod Third Coming]

Who finished fourth last time the league cup was called the Rumbelow's cup?

 

I'm sure Chris Samba's agent certainly studied the league table in great detail before recommending his client jump feet first into the Redknapp revolution at QPR.

 

Ah. Here's my take on your second point:

 

QPR Manager = Redknapp

 

Chris Samba agent = Willy Mackay by any chance?

 

Just a wild guess...

[Olallana]

Sure. Spurs as as well for Ramirez

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/tottenham-target-gaston-ramirez-turns-1260256

 

http://metro.co.uk/2012/08/17/gaston-ramirez-snubs-spurs-and-liverpool-to-sign-for-southampton-540202/

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/vegard-forren-to-liverpool-norwegian-defender-1534344

 

Now what was that about only signing due to league position?

 

So that´s your proof......ok then.

Mirror and the Metro.....I give up...

You "win"...

[Legod Third Coming]

Ahh right so the offers didn't exist, it was all talk from someone with a motivation to make it appear that spurs and Liverpool wanted them. The back slapping on here about us beating Liverpool to players was all bulls*it then, glad we cleared that up.

 

No idea. But it doesn't hurt for the club PR to have you believe that does it?

 

Some days I long to live in a world where we can believe what we read in newspapers...

[CB Fry]

Ah. Here's my take on your second point:

 

QPR Manager = Redknapp

 

Chris Samba agent = Willy Mackay by any chance?

 

Just a wild guess...

 

So money then. Not league position.

 

Good guess.

[Olallana]

Normally? Go on.

 

When didn´t it reward a European spot then?

[Legod Third Coming]

So money then. Not league position.

 

Good guess.

 

Yep. But you would agree I guess that we have more money to throw around than Wigan? Most likely because we're higher in the league (although pitifully cupless - woe is us...)

[Turkish]

So that´s your proof......ok then.

Mirror and the Metro.....I give up...

You "win"...

 

There are direct quote from agents there.

 

What do you want? A copy of the offer from Liverpool to bologna and Molde? Just admit it you've made yourself look stupid again just like your shots on goal nonsense.

[Turkish]

No idea. But it doesn't hurt for the club PR to have you believe that does it?

 

Some days I long to live in a world where we can believe what we read in newspapers...

 

Ahh so saints fed the stories to the papers! Did they also tell Ramirez agent what to say to the papers as well when he turned down spurs?

[Olallana]

What do you want? A copy of the offer from Liverpool to bologna and Molde? Just admit it you've made yourself look stupid again just like your shots on goal nonsense.

 

You still haven´t learned the difference between the words performance and result?

They are not that similar you know, they only share two letters...

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

OK - back from the match a while ago, so here's some thoughts...

 

* Sunderland were woeful - if they don't improve significantly they will be relegated.

* Great debut performance by Harrison Reed - one of our best players on the night - made important tackles on a number of occasions.

* Danny Fox cannot defend to save his life and should never be played as a full back again - by all means play him as a winger, but not as a full back. Both goals came as a result of his failure to pick up Sunderland's player beyond the far post on our left where he should have been defending.

* Gaston Ramirez is a player of quality but is completely lacking in sharpness and will to fight for his place in the first team. I have been a big fan of his ever since we signed him, but tonight I saw a player that was not up for it and a player who tries to guess what his fellow players might do instead of being able to pick out that defence splitting pass to one of our players. Sadly, I think his future may lie elsewhere.

* In just the few moments he had on the pitch, Lallana showed he is getting back to his best - he was the most quality player on the pitch for those few minutes.

* We lack width & pace - especially without Clyne and Shaw. I find it startling that we let Puncheon go out on loan. He could have made a significant difference tonight.

* I am concerned that Rodriguez may never achieve his full potential. He has a lot of improving still to do and his rate of improvement is not what I would expect of a player playing regularly in the Premier League.

* It was great to blood a couple of youngsters tonight in Reed and Gallagher, but if Pochettino had decided to play with a reserve squad and develop youngsters then I would have liked to have seen a couple of others maybe also given their chance - Matt Targett and Lloyd Isgrove in particular. That having been said maybe too many youngsters would have been a difficult challenge for the players.

 

Overall, we did not deserve to lose the match as we bossed possession (despite what some statistics seem to be suggesting!) and Sunderland were woeful. If we had not had Fox at left back we may not have conceded either of those goals and could have won.

[CB Fry]

Yep. But you would agree I guess that we have more money to throw around than Wigan? Most likely because we're higher in the league (although pitifully cupless - woe is us...)

 

You think we'd get relegated if we won a cup this season? Seriously?

 

Are you actually bi-polar? We were off to the NOU CAMP according to you half an hour ago.

[Legod Third Coming]

Ahh so saints fed the stories to the papers! Did they also tell Ramirez agent what to say to the papers as well when he turned down spurs?

 

Ramirez turned down Spurs? Or we offered a higher salary? Or his agent was angling for more money from us/them?

 

I know you're not really this dense.

 

If you are, I normally charge for educational talks. But I'm banking on your just wanting to waste a little of my time.

 

Which, looking at my watch, I've just run out of. Ciao.

[shurlock]

Thought I had answered that amongst my three points earlier....my apologies..

 

6th place normally does, when was the last time it didn´t? (no this one I didn´t answer earlier).

 

6th place means that you are actually getting closer to the top 4 that gives you the opportunity to go into CL competition which, as I said, is the aim for most players if you look at their individual goals in their careers. If you finish 12th-ish you have a long long way to go to be close to CL.

6th place also gives you more £ which attracts better players.

 

Dont think it's about £.

 

To quote the old cliché, the league doesn't lie. It's the ultimate benchmark of where a club is, whether it's the real deal. The prize winnings from finishing 6th as opposed to 10th is trivial but reputationally in terms of being taken seriously and therefore bring able to better players and taking the next step, it's huge.

[TUS]

Just back from the match. Anyone interested?

 

Anyone who thought it would be anything but a B-side is seriously deluded. I was expecting it and happy to see it - it was interesting seeing how the other players coped without the 7 or so core players. It was basically a different team, so pointless comparing it to any other performance this season. See it on its own - it was what it was.

 

We passed the ball fairly well. Some of the defending was weak. We lacked any sort of cutting edge up front. That basically sums it up. A few players did OK - mainly the younger lads. Gaston chuffed away but it is desperately obvious he isn't going to ever "do it" for us. Let him go - for his own sake. Cork, Lee and Fox were poor. Kelvin could have done better for the first goal.

 

The ref had an absolute shocker. As if 3 strong penalty shouts weren't enough - he was consistently inept (as was the lino to our left).

 

Sunderland fans were .... hang on, were there any of them there? Less said the better. Saints fans - excellent as always. I never expect any different. No moaning, enjoyed the night and supported the lads regardless. What it's all about IMO.

 

Bring on the repeat trip in January - it'll be a different kettle of fish completely.

[Turkish]

You still haven´t learned the difference between the words performance and result?

They are not that similar you know, they only share two letters...

 

Ha ha ha! Excellent try, when all else fails try and patronise. The last haymaker for the mongboarder who has been battered senseless and on the ropes. Night night sunshine.

[Turkish]

Ramirez turned down Spurs? Or we offered a higher salary? Or his agent was angling for more money from us/them?

 

I know you're not really this dense.

 

If you are, I normally charge for educational talks. But I'm banking on your just wanting to waste a little of my time.

 

Which, looking at my watch, I've just run out of. Ciao.

 

Ahh so what you're saying is he didn't chose us over them for our league position. Glad you've finally realised!

[TUS]

Wholeheartedly agree with everything you say there.

 

Sunderland are indeed in very serious trouble. There is no saving them IMO. I'm glad we don't have to watch that lump up front every week.

[trousers]

Been out all evening. Just got back and read this thread from the beginning. By half time we had been "playing as good as our first choice 11" and everything was rosy. That prevailing view, of course, completely changed when they scored.

 

It's quite entertaining to read these threads retrospectively having not been around during the game.

 

Not sure what's more amusing though. The wind up merchants or those being wound up and reacting.