Sunderland Build Up Thread

[S-Clarke]

Small timers. Yes I want to win something. The premier league. A Champions League spot.

 

Yeah, like that's going to happen...

[SNSUN]

I hadn't thought about the possibility of penalties. Lambert on the bench then, with 6 of his clones.

[egg]

It'll be a reserve team, no doubt pretty much like most above have picked.

 

Out of interest, why have so many people picked squad players but thrown in Rodriguez and/or Jwp rather than any other first teamer? Seems odd to single them out.

[Bearsy]

Davis

 

Chambers

Yoshida

Hooiveld

Fox

 

Cork

S.Davis

Ramirez

Lee

Rowe or Isgrove

 

J Rod

 

I feel in my dark ursine soul that if we put out a side like that we'll get beat. I want that QF spot vs Chelsea!

 

I would like to be more:

 

Boruc

 

Clyne

Lovren

Fonte

Chambers

 

Cork

Schneiderlin

 

Ramirez

Davis

Ward Prowse

 

Osvaldo or Lambert or Rodriguez

[Tom28]

Yeah, like that's going to happen...

 

We must be the only club in the world whose chairmans ambition exceeds that of the fans.

[LGTL]

We must be the only club in the world whose chairmans ambition exceeds that of the fans.

 

A champions league spot isn't "winning" anything....

[SaintBobby]

I'm with those who take this competition seriously. Yeah, maybe it is the higher league equivalent of the JPT, but so what? I went bat sh1t mental when we won that.

 

I'd rather end up 10th in the League and get to a Wembley final then finish 7th or 8th without the glory.

 

Maybe 3 or 4 changes from Saturday depending who is fit/knackered (possibly Osvaldo in, maybe Steve Davies to start, maybe rest Lambert, possibly give Ramirez a run out?)

[CB Fry]

We must be the only club in the world whose chairmans ambition exceeds that of the fans.

 

My ambition for the club is to win a trophy. Not finish seventh place, with a hope of finishing fourth place...which, lets remember, is winning eff all. Nothing. No major trophy for thirty years and no ambitions to win one. Great.

 

My ambitions beat the Chairman.

[Bucks Saint]

I'm with those who take this competition seriously. Yeah, maybe it is the higher league equivalent of the JPT, but so what? I went bat sh1t mental when we won that.

 

I'd rather end up 10th in the League and get to a Wembley final then finish 7th or 8th without the glory.

 

Very much this

[Bucks Saint]

I'm with those who take this competition seriously. Yeah, maybe it is the higher league equivalent of the JPT, but so what? I went bat sh1t mental when we won that.

 

I'd rather end up 10th in the League and get to a Wembley final then finish 7th or 8th without the glory.

 

Very much this. Not at all costs of course, but it is a good chance of a trophy

Edited 5 November, 2013 by Bucks Saint

[Glasgow_Saint]

Anyone know what sort of side sunderland will put out? Is this a battle of the backups?

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

My ambition for the club is to win a trophy. Not finish seventh place, with a hope of finishing fourth place...which, lets remember, is winning eff all. Nothing. No major trophy for thirty years and no ambitions to win one. Great.

 

My ambitions beat the Chairman.

 

Get with the times buddy. Cortese wants CL football, it is clear from the players and manager this is the goal. Cortese believes Poch and the current squad can achieve this, however playing a full or near full strength side in Capital One Cup is not going to help achieve that. As I previously wrote on this thread it is imperative that the 1st choice players are given adequate time off to rest and recover in between games in order to sustain our high intensity pressing game and keep injuries to a minimum. This is our A game and we need it in every game to have any hope of qualifying for the CL. We may well end up finishing in 7th or 8th but that is not the point. The club have ambition and objectives far greater than this and have a plan in place to achieve it, as fans who are we to question this given the successes of the last few years?

[egg]

Anyone know what sort of side sunderland will put out? Is this a battle of the backups?

 

They've got 2 players banned for the next 3 league games following Saturdays red cards. My guess is they'll want to save their better backups for the weekend and will be forced to play some youngsters.

[trousers]

Get with the times buddy. Cortese wants CL football, it is clear from the players and manager this is the goal. Cortese believes Poch and the current squad can achieve this, however playing a full or near full strength side in Capital One Cup is not going to help achieve that. As I previously wrote on this thread it is imperative that the 1st choice players are given adequate time off to rest and recover in between games in order to sustain our high intensity pressing game and keep injuries to a minimum. This is our A game and we need it in every game to have any hope of qualifying for the CL. We may well end up finishing in 7th or 8th but that is not the point. The club have ambition and objectives far greater than this and have a plan in place to achieve it, as fans who are we to question this given the successes of the last few years?

 

Calling all thought police to post #113. Someone caught red handed expressing pragmatic view on SaintsWeb forum...

 

Nee naw nee naw nee naw

[Glasgow_Saint]

if we do ditch the cups in favour of our hunt for CL we best deliver

 

finishing around 10th and forfeiting both cups would be a bad season imho

[trousers]

if we do ditch the cups in favour of our hunt for CL we best deliver

 

 

This season or the accumulative effect of finishing as high as possible over the next 2 or 3 seasons?

[JRM]

those who you who keep saying forget about the cup because we've got champions league ambition, lets bear in mind we are only 10 games into the season, our next 5 games include Arsenal & Chelsea away and Man City at home. it is quite possible we'll lose all 3 of those (I hope not) and find ourselves back with the mid-table pack.

 

we should at least be making an attempt to win the cups , anyone who has ever done the stadium tour will know our trophy cabinet is quite empty

 

I don't know enough about Sunderlands squad , will the two players sent off on Saturday be out ? I think their keeper went off as well, any news on that?

if we somehow get into the quarter finals then we must play a full strength team. .

[JRM]

those who you who keep saying forget about the cup because we've got champions league ambition, lets bear in mind we are only 10 games into the season, our next 5 games include Arsenal & Chelsea away and Man City at home. it is quite possible we'll lose all 3 of those (I hope not) and find ourselves back with the mid-table pack.

 

we should at least be making an attempt to win the cups , anyone who has ever done the stadium tour will know our trophy cabinet is quite empty

 

I don't know enough about Sunderlands squad , will the two players sent off on Saturday be out ? I think their keeper went off as well, any news on that?

if we somehow get into the quarter finals then we must play a full strength team. .

[Glasgow_Saint]

This season or the accumulative effect of finishing as high as possible over the next 2 or 3 seasons?

 

Just think a cup is our best option for europe next few seasons - we should take it serious if we are serious about playing europe.

 

CL is great chat but not realistic

[dubai_phil]

Agree with JRM's double post.

 

In our next run of games we play Arsenal, Chelsea, City AND Spurs.

 

If Osvaldo is still not 100% it would be insane to risk SRL tonight when the Hull game is so important in terms of games we could earn maximum points from in this run.

 

Likewise while JRod has had game time in the previous, do we REALLY want to face Hull with SRL & Gaston/Guly?Lee up front?

 

Mayuka & Jos need game time - they may have to step in for Fonte/Lovren at any moment. Chambers needs game time to stay ready, and Jack Cork would probably go Ape Sh1t if he did not get a game tonight.

 

Luke Shaw is prone to midweek knocks (see England Call-Ups)

 

Yes I would LOVE another trip home to Wembley.

 

But no way do I want to be facing Hull with Guly & Lee up front because SRL/JRod got knocks or stupid cards

 

Basically we all know we don't want to damage the chances of the first team and we want to win the cup. So in reality everyone is just saying pick our back up team but FFS leave Danny Fox out of it.........

 

[CWD]

Call me crazy but could we possibly win a trophy and still finish in the top 8? I didn't realise that if you win the League Cup you automatically finish 2 places lower than if you don't!

 

I think people are exaggerating the strain this will put on the players. It's only one extra game ffs. Also didn't MP say that every week the lads play at least one full intensity, 90 min training match against each other? So surely they can manage a game on a Wednesday night instead - in fact you could argue it would be more beneficial to go up against real opposition.

Edited 5 November, 2013 by CWD

[Tom28]

My ambition for the club is to win a trophy. Not finish seventh place, with a hope of finishing fourth place...which, lets remember, is winning eff all. Nothing. No major trophy for thirty years and no ambitions to win one. Great.

 

My ambitions beat the Chairman.

 

Pompey won the cup a few years ago; look at them now. Winning one trophy isn't long term success. Champions League qualification and the extra money that would bring would secure us in the upper echelons of the Premier League for years, and would allow us the opportunity to grow and to build a squad that could win multiple trophies, not just one League Cup.

 

Your ambitions are small time and short term. They do not beat the Chairmans'.

[Tom28]

Just think a cup is our best option for europe next few seasons - we should take it serious if we are serious about playing europe.

 

CL is great chat but not realistic

 

Pochettino said himself (I accept this isn't verbatim) that Europa League is just a cup for teams not good enough for the Champions League. Thursday night trips to some far eastern corner of Europe in late November against a team no one has ever heard of with a tin pot stadium full of racists? No thanks. Barcelona at the Nou Camp? Oh go on then.....

 

Too many on here with a small minded, English mentality of "it'll never happen for us so we may as well just settle for the League Cup". Dream bigger. If we don't get there, we don't get there, but I'd far rather we focussed on the league and gave it a good go.

[Tom28]

Call me crazy but could we possibly win a trophy and still finish in the top 8? I didn't realise that if you win the League Cup you automatically finish 2 places lower than if you don't!

 

I think people are exaggerating the strain this will put on the players. It's only one extra game ffs. Also didn't MP say that every week the lads play at least one full intensity, 90 min training match against each other? So surely they can manage a game on a Wednesday night instead - in fact you could argue it would be more beneficial to go up against real opposition.

 

 

You're crazy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, you may be right, but someone above made a good point... if we were to play Lambert and J-Rod, and one or both picked up a knock, or we ended up playing 120 mins, and then Osvaldo didn't recover in time for Saturday, then I really wouldn't fancy our chances of beating Hull. It's a percentages game; my view is we shouldn't take the gamble. We have a squad - lets use it in this competition. We've used the League cup in years gone by for our fringe players and for the likes of Luke Shaw, Calum Chambers, James W-P, Alex Ox-C, etc...I'd far rather we use the League Cup for giving our fringe players game time and for bringing younger players through like Omar Rowe, Harrison Reed etc. Why move away from that strategy now?

Edited 5 November, 2013 by Tom28

[Glasgow_Saint]

Pochettino said himself (I accept this isn't verbatim) that Europa League is just a cup for teams not good enough for the Champions League. Thursday night trips to some far eastern corner of Europe in late November against a team no one has ever heard of with a tin pot stadium full of racists? No thanks. Barcelona at the Nou Camp? Oh go on then.....

 

Too many on here with a small minded, English mentality of "it'll never happen for us so we may as well just settle for the League Cup". Dream bigger. If we don't get there, we don't get there, but I'd far rather we focussed on the league and gave it a good go.

 

If mopo did say that then I’m surprised and that’s very disrespectful of him in many ways (hoping it was lost in translation)

 

We have to be realistic and CL is not realistic I’m afraid. I am all for thinking big but within the realms of possibility.

 

The top four teams in the Barclays Premier League qualify for the UEFA Champions League. We will not finish top 4

 

There are then three places in the UEFA Europa League available: the FA Cup winners, the fifth place team and the League Cup winners – we will not finish 5th

[Griffo]

Thursday night trips to some far eastern corner of Europe in late November against a team no one has ever heard of with a tin pot stadium full of racists? No thanks.

 

Yes please. You don't understand how much that appeals to some of us. Much more than a boring trip to Barcelona.

[Tom28]

If mopo did say that then I’m surprised and that’s very disrespectful of him in many ways (hoping it was lost in translation)

 

We have to be realistic and CL is not realistic I’m afraid. I am all for thinking big but within the realms of possibility.

 

The top four teams in the Barclays Premier League qualify for the UEFA Champions League. We will not finish top 4

 

There are then three places in the UEFA Europa League available: the FA Cup winners, the fifth place team and the League Cup winners – we will not finish 5th

 

Boss Pochettino said: “I’m not really keen on the Europa League. We’re all more attracted to the Champions League.

 

“I like it when my players have ambition and that way of thinking obliges them to work even harder to achieve those things. It also forces you to be very demanding of your team.

 

“The Europa League means you haven’t been good enough to make it to the Champions League. All managers are aiming to go one step higher.

 

“We can’t set ourselves any limits. We have to be ambitious. We don’t know if that will happen in one year, three years or five years. If we are ambitious one day we will achieve it.”

 

Wasn't lost in translation. Wasn't disrespectful. He just wants more. So should we. As I said earlier in the thread, our managements' ambition exceeds that of a lot of our fans'.

[Tom28]

Yes please. You don't understand how much that appeals to some of us. Much more than a boring trip to Barcelona.

 

I'm sure it does appeal to the Football Factory contingent.

[Griffo]

I'm sure it does appeal to the Football Factory contingent.

 

..

[eelpie]

Get with the times buddy. Cortese wants CL football, it is clear from the players and manager this is the goal. Cortese believes Poch and the current squad can achieve this, however playing a full or near full strength side in Capital One Cup is not going to help achieve that. As I previously wrote on this thread it is imperative that the 1st choice players are given adequate time off to rest and recover in between games in order to sustain our high intensity pressing game and keep injuries to a minimum. This is our A game and we need it in every game to have any hope of qualifying for the CL. We may well end up finishing in 7th or 8th but that is not the point. The club have ambition and objectives far greater than this and have a plan in place to achieve it, as fans who are we to question this given the successes of the last few years?

 

But if we achieve Champions league competition by resting players midweek to get there, we are not going to get far in the two matches a week competition, are we?

[JRM]

I'm sure it does appeal to the Football Factory contingent.

 

you're obviously a youngster, ask anyone who went to Bucharest away in 2003 if they'd want more of that.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Boss Pochettino said: “I’m not really keen on the Europa League. We’re all more attracted to the Champions League.

 

“I like it when my players have ambition and that way of thinking obliges them to work even harder to achieve those things. It also forces you to be very demanding of your team.

 

“The Europa League means you haven’t been good enough to make it to the Champions League. All managers are aiming to go one step higher.

 

“We can’t set ourselves any limits. We have to be ambitious. We don’t know if that will happen in one year, three years or five years. If we are ambitious one day we will achieve it.”

 

Wasn't lost in translation. Wasn't disrespectful. He just wants more. So should we. As I said earlier in the thread, our managements' ambition exceeds that of a lot of our fans'.

 

Depends what you interpret as ambition - going after the best looking girl in the club, but going home alone every week does not show ambition….. its just stupid and a waste of your time.

[Tom28]

But if we achieve Champions league competition by resting players midweek to get there, we are not going to get far in the two matches a week competition, are we?

 

If we were to qualify for the Champions League, it would raise our profile considerably, as well as our finances. We could attract better players and build the squad to be able to compete in multiple areas.

[Sour Mash]

If we were to qualify for the Champions League, it would raise our profile considerably, as well as our finances. We could attract better players and build the squad to be able to compete in multiple areas.

How likely do you think it is that we will finish in the top 4 this season?

[Cabrone]

We aren't going to get top 4 but we could win this one. Silverware is good for standing and morale, raises the profile and gives the fans & club a buzz.

 

Top 4, if it were ever to happen would take several seasons, a cup win is a stepping stone on that path.

 

We need to take this one seriously, maybe swap a couple of first teamers out but put up a strong team.

 

If we lost this one because of a weakened team I'd be gutted.

[Tom28]

I'm done arguing with small timers. You'll always have a small club, 'it will never happen to us', mentality and no amount of me posting on here will change your minds.

 

We'll see tomorrow night won't we. I come back to my earlier point; those of you hoping for significant presence of 'first choice' players in our starting eleven I think will be disappointed. If I'm right, please try to keep the moaning and complaining to a minimum if we play a second eleven and lose, and do try to remember that maybe there is a bigger plan at the club than what you may have in mind. Thank you.

[Turkish]

Pompey won the cup a few years ago; look at them now. Winning one trophy isn't long term success. Champions League qualification and the extra money that would bring would secure us in the upper echelons of the Premier League for years, and would allow us the opportunity to grow and to build a squad that could win multiple trophies, not just one League Cup.

 

Your ambitions are small time and short term. They do not beat the Chairmans'.

 

How did that work out for Leeds?

[Griffo]

I'm done arguing with small timers. You'll always have a small club, 'it will never happen to us', mentality and no amount of me posting on here will change your minds.

 

We'll see tomorrow night won't we. I come back to my earlier point; those of you hoping for significant presence of 'first choice' players in our starting eleven I think will be disappointed. If I'm right, please try to keep the moaning and complaining to a minimum if we play a second eleven and lose, and do try to remember that maybe there is a bigger plan at the club than what you may have in mind. Thank you.

 

Somehow I get the feeling that you don't get to games much..

[Turkish]

I'm done arguing with small timers. You'll always have a small club, 'it will never happen to us', mentality and no amount of me posting on here will change your minds.

 

We'll see tomorrow night won't we. I come back to my earlier point; those of you hoping for significant presence of 'first choice' players in our starting eleven I think will be disappointed. If I'm right, please try to keep the moaning and complaining to a minimum if we play a second eleven and lose, and do try to remember that maybe there is a bigger plan at the club than what you may have in mind. Thank you.

 

Do you play a lot of Football Manager by any chance?

[Tom28]

How likely do you think it is that we will finish in the top 4 this season?

 

15-25%. Thats 15-25% more than last season. Who knows what it might be next season. If we started playing our first choice team in both cups then I'd say our chances would drop back to 0%.

[Tom28]

Do you play a lot of Football Manager by any chance?

 

Not for about 10-15 years. No. You? Is it any good these days?

[Bearsy]

How likely do you think it is that we will finish in the top 4 this season?

 

I saw bookies offering 26-1. I wasn't tempted.

[WindsorSaint]

Best price I can find for a top 4 finish is 40/1 with Ladbrokes, (but 7/1 for top 6, also with Ladbrokes).

Best price for League Cup win is 16/1 with Coral.

[Sour Mash]

I'm done arguing with small timers. You'll always have a small club, 'it will never happen to us', mentality and no amount of me posting on here will change your minds.

 

We'll see tomorrow night won't we. I come back to my earlier point; those of you hoping for significant presence of 'first choice' players in our starting eleven I think will be disappointed. If I'm right, please try to keep the moaning and complaining to a minimum if we play a second eleven and lose, and do try to remember that maybe there is a bigger plan at the club than what you may have in mind. Thank you.

No need to get angry just because your worship of a Champions League place at all costs is at odds with most normal Saints fans that would like to actually try and win a trophy.

[Tom28]

Somehow I get the feeling that you don't get to games much..

 

I've been to every home game except Sunderland and West Ham, and I went to Anfield, and Bristol City in the League Cup.

[Sour Mash]

15-25%. Thats 15-25% more than last season. Who knows what it might be next season. If we started playing our first choice team in both cups then I'd say our chances would drop back to 0%.

That answer doesn't make sense.

[Tom28]

How did that work out for Leeds?

 

How did winning the League Cup work out for Leicester, Birmingham, Middlesbrough???

[Tom28]

That answer doesn't make sense.

 

I agree. I know what I meant though!

[eelpie]

If we were to qualify for the Champions League, it would raise our profile considerably, as well as our finances. We could attract better players and build the squad to be able to compete in multiple areas.

 

So should we be prioritising CL league or Premiership matches when we have two matches a week? Would the best players play in CL at the expense of our league position? How much more might our seat prices rise? Could we get into financial trouble by signing expensive CL quality players who we might not be able to afford once we are out of the competition? The historic tragedy of Leeds Utd and Ipswich before comes to mind. I'm not dissing European football for us which would be momentous, just pointing out some risks.

(The same applies equally whichever European competition we might find ourselves in)

 

Meanwhile back to the thread, I would give game experience to Chambers, Maya, Ramires, Cork, Lee, Davies and Fox, the remainder of places (but not full 90 minutes) to first team players. Rickie and JWP must be on the pitch towards the end in case it comes down to penalties. I think that if our fringe players can't do enough to beat Sunderland then European football is not yet a realistic option.

[SaintSteve]

No need to get angry just because your worship of a Champions League place at all costs is at odds with most normal Saints fans that would like to actually try and win a trophy.

Speak for yourself... most intelligent saints fans agree with MPs approach of pursuing the ultimate objective.. we may beat Sunderland with a squad team anyway.