Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 His attempted turn and snap shop finish (was offside anyway) sums it up for me, no composure, no skill shown, simply turn and blast the ball and hope, thats not good enough at this level and his stay here has been that all over, he does not merit a start and he is only on the bench as he cost a lot and previous reputation from 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 One of GR's big selling points when we got him was that he had either the best or certainly top 10 stats in Seria A for successful dribbling and for fouls against. And that was in an unfashionable mid to lower table team on Cagliari who outperformed as a consequence with his impact. In other words he ran with the ball a lot and quite often got illegally challenged. I suspect ( well i think its pretty much an accepted fact) that an illegal challenge in Italy is going to be less obvious than what we see here in the EPL which is notoriously " tougher" though ostensibly running according to same UEFA refereeing guidelines. There's a lot more falling over and rolling around for what appears hardly anything and free kicks awarded by consequence in Italy. You can get knocked unconscious here and it's not a foul......;-) GR has had to adjust to that. If he goes on a dribble and is nudged then its not an immediate foul.this is a problem for him and Saints. Its perverse but at the highest international level his technical characteristics will actually be better suited to matches such as in the slow slow slow quick pace of the Rio World Cup than EPL matches. A lot of his dribbles came from a central midfield area in serie A. If he does that in EPL and loses the ball because " its not been given as a foul" then we are in danger of counter attack. So, he is having to totally adapt his game to play two different ways - one which is what he'grew up being Good at and the other the way saints want him to play. Jrod and Rickie and Osvaldo have all had to do this - with mixed success. He is just like them in that regard - but younger. If he stays at SFC I'd back him to come good and then kick on to being a great player for us, tough times for him at present though so its a real test of character. I really hope he comes through. If we see him next year scoring s screamer for Uruguay against Brazil and think" he used to be a saint" what a bummer that would be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 One of GR's big selling points when we got him was that he had either the best or certainly top 10 stats in Seria A for successful dribbling and for fouls against. And that was in an unfashionable mid to lower table team on Cagliari who outperformed as a consequence with his impact. In other words he ran with the ball a lot and quite often got illegally challenged. I suspect ( well i think its pretty much an accepted fact) that an illegal challenge in Italy is going to be less obvious than what we see here in the EPL which is notoriously " tougher" though ostensibly running according to same UEFA refereeing guidelines. There's a lot more falling over and rolling around for what appears hardly anything and free kicks awarded by consequence in Italy. You can get knocked unconscious here and it's not a foul......;-) GR has had to adjust to that. If he goes on a dribble and is nudged then its not an immediate foul.this is a problem for him and Saints. Its perverse but at the highest international level his technical characteristics will actually be better suited to matches such as in the slow slow slow quick pace of the Rio World Cup than EPL matches. A lot of his dribbles came from a central midfield area in serie A. If he does that in EPL and loses the ball because " its not been given as a foul" then we are in danger of counter attack. So, he is having to totally adapt his game to play two different ways - one which is what he'grew up being Good at and the other the way saints want him to play. Jrod and Rickie and Osvaldo have all had to do this - with mixed success. He is just like them in that regard - but younger. If he stays at SFC I'd back him to come good and then kick on to being a great player for us, tough times for him at present though so its a real test of character. I really hope he comes through. If we see him next year scoring s screamer for Uruguay against Brazil and think" he used to be a saint" what a bummer that would be! Very well reasoned post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Very well reasoned post. As well as it may be but it does not disguise the fact why did we buy him if he was going to fall over so easily? How long does the board and management have before they finally sell? Do we buy players on a 4 year contract and allow them 2 years to settle? Is this normal? Wanting something to happen does not make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 As well as it may be but it does not disguise the fact why did we buy him if he was going to fall over so easily? How long does the board and management have before they finally sell? Do we buy players on a 4 year contract and allow them 2 years to settle? Is this normal? Wanting something to happen does not make it so. By all accounts (Ramirez's agent for one) the club were looking to off load back in the summer and its just a case of finding a buyer. expect him to go this Jan (loan or sale) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 His attempted turn and snap shop finish (was offside anyway) sums it up for me, no composure, no skill shown, simply turn and blast the ball and hope, thats not good enough at this level and his stay here has been that all over, he does not merit a start and he is only on the bench as he cost a lot and previous reputation from 2 years ago. you do talk some bollocks barry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 As well as it may be but it does not disguise the fact why did we buy him if he was going to fall over so easily? How long does the board and management have before they finally sell? Do we buy players on a 4 year contract and allow them 2 years to settle? Is this normal? Wanting something to happen does not make it so. Breaking news: not every player acquired works out exactly as hoped. Some do better, some adjust quicker, some take longer, some dont work out at all. We did not buy knowing full well it would take 2 years for him to settle. The fact that it is taking longer than we wanted does automatically mean we should give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 (edited) As well as it may be but it does not disguise the fact why did we buy him if he was going to fall over so easily? How long does the board and management have before they finally sell? Do we buy players on a 4 year contract and allow them 2 years to settle? Is this normal? Wanting something to happen does not make it so. Double post. On the beers even this early Edited 5 November, 2013 by Bucks Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 you do talk some bollocks barry! Beersy, now thats a clapper argument, why do you disagree with it? You have to put your argument in there, not simply a thats sh it comment as that makes you sound like a person who lives on a trumpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Breaking news: not every player acquired works out exactly as hoped. Some do better, some adjust quicker, some take longer, some dont work out at all. We did not buy knowing full well it would take 2 years for him to settle. The fact that it is taking longer than we wanted does automatically mean we should give up Do you genuinely think Gaston will come good after 2 years? Who was the last crap player that suddenly became good after 2 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Breaking news: not every player acquired works out exactly as hoped. Some do better, some adjust quicker, some take longer, some dont work out at all. We did not buy knowing full well it would take 2 years for him to settle. The fact that it is taking longer than we wanted does automatically mean we should give up So how long do we take for His Majesty to actually be worth even half his fee? Hope is not reality, lets judge him fairly upon what he has done, not what he may do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Who was the last crap player that suddenly became good after 2 years? wassisname at arsenal. Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Double post. On the beers even this early No, just put it there to see what clapper would use this as part of their Gashton deflector shield, you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Beersy, now thats a clapper argument, why do you disagree with it? You have to put your argument in there, not simply a thats sh it comment as that makes you sound like a person who lives on a trumpet. I'd be interested to see if you can come up with the counter arguments, they seem to me so obvious that it feels patronising to present them! What does lives on a trumpet mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 (edited) Yes, I have for a long time suspected this. Please post picks of bear and the trumpet Baz. Edit: Don't worry found it. Edited 5 November, 2013 by Tokyo-Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 wassisname at arsenal. Ramsey. He was never crap? He's played over 110 games for Arsenal and its only this season that Wenger has played him in the advanced role - he was still getting rave reviews. His goals have got him more recognition this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 He was never crap? He's played over 110 games for Arsenal and its only this season that Wenger has played him in the advanced role - he was still getting rave reviews. His goals have got him more recognition this year Obv he was never crap, but neither is Gaston! He was crap in the same was as Gaston, in that vociferous elements of his own fan base labelled him such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 wassisname at arsenal. Ramsey. Reaching there, he was not £12 Million and he has been far more effective than Ramirez. Arsenal fans in the main were frustrated he did not score more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Gareth Bale at Tottenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 I'd be interested to see if you can come up with the counter arguments, they seem to me so obvious that it feels patronising to present them! What does lives on a trumpet mean? I thought it would strike a chord with you and your fellow Saints Web office workers, you know that friendly zany devil may care attitude you have and thats others simply love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 One of GR's big selling points when we got him was that he had either the best or certainly top 10 stats in Seria A for successful dribbling and for fouls against. And that was in an unfashionable mid to lower table team on Cagliari who outperformed as a consequence with his impact. In other words he ran with the ball a lot and quite often got illegally challenged. I suspect ( well i think its pretty much an accepted fact) that an illegal challenge in Italy is going to be less obvious than what we see here in the EPL which is notoriously " tougher" though ostensibly running according to same UEFA refereeing guidelines. There's a lot more falling over and rolling around for what appears hardly anything and free kicks awarded by consequence in Italy. You can get knocked unconscious here and it's not a foul......;-) GR has had to adjust to that. If he goes on a dribble and is nudged then its not an immediate foul.this is a problem for him and Saints. Its perverse but at the highest international level his technical characteristics will actually be better suited to matches such as in the slow slow slow quick pace of the Rio World Cup than EPL matches. A lot of his dribbles came from a central midfield area in serie A. If he does that in EPL and loses the ball because " its not been given as a foul" then we are in danger of counter attack. So, he is having to totally adapt his game to play two different ways - one which is what he'grew up being Good at and the other the way saints want him to play. Jrod and Rickie and Osvaldo have all had to do this - with mixed success. He is just like them in that regard - but younger. If he stays at SFC I'd back him to come good and then kick on to being a great player for us, tough times for him at present though so its a real test of character. I really hope he comes through. If we see him next year scoring s screamer for Uruguay against Brazil and think" he used to be a saint" what a bummer that would be! Utter garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Gareth Bale at Tottenham. Really? Was he as bad as Ramirez has been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 I thought it would strike a chord with you and your fellow Saints Web office workers, you know that friendly zany devil may care attitude you have and thats others simply love. Oh! Were you being irony about Gaston? Soz! Too subtle for me! I'll leave you alone then - carry on as you were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 for someone who dislikes ramirez so much, you spend an awful lot of time talking about him. About 50% of your waking life by the looks of it, seriously have you not got anything better to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Bale at Spurs, Walcott at Arsenal? Arguably Jay Rodriguez with us. Pretty deeply average for his first six months, but now a valued part of the squad/team. Ramirez has been a disappointment for sure. One or two very good games, but I hoped for so much more. Unless he is "want away", I'd have thought now to January is crunch time. He doesn't need to look like a world beater by Christmas, but there does need to be a marked improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Don't give up the day job, Joe. Football management might not be for you....... Judging by my progression on FM14 you're right but suspect Poch thinks differently - Theoertical question who would you rather have, GR, or sell him for 10m and buy Tom Ince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 17m quid wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Take Tom ince, can't be any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Take Tom ince, can't be any worse. Actually I think Ince would be considerably better. Young, English, done the yards in the Champs which we know benefited Lallana, JRod, Morgan etc. Would suit the pressing game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Actually I think Ince would be considerably better. Young, English, done the yards in the Champs which we know benefited Lallana, JRod, Morgan etc. Would suit the pressing game I have wanted him for ages, wouldn't come here now, Liverpool are interested again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Really? Was he as bad as Ramirez has been? Yep, was nearly sold/went on loan to Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Really? Was he as bad as Ramirez has been? Yep, was nearly sold/went on loan to Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 every time I see this thread out of the corner of my eye I think it's something to do with glastonbury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Yep, was nearly sold/went on loan to Birmingham. So he was not sold then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 He was never crap? He's played over 110 games for Arsenal and its only this season that Wenger has played him in the advanced role - he was still getting rave reviews. His goals have got him more recognition this year Absolute nonsense. He was getting slated for quite a while prior to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 So he was not sold then. Bale was far worse for Spurs in his first season than Ramirez was for us. So bad in fact that Redknapp wanted to send him to Middlesbrough along with £15million in exchange for Stewart Downing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Breaking news: not every player acquired works out exactly as hoped. Some do better, some adjust quicker, some take longer, some dont work out at all. We did not buy knowing full well it would take 2 years for him to settle. The fact that it is taking longer than we wanted does automatically mean we should give up Yeah, lets allow his contract to run down and part with another 10,000 ST revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Yeah, lets allow his contract to run down and part with another 10,000 ST revenues. Why are people so obsessed with what he cost? It's not coming out of your pocket, is it? More likely, it's coming from Sky and the other companies paying silly amounts to play games on their tv stations around the world. Also the reason fees for all teams have gone up. People still don't seem to understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Absolute nonsense. He was getting slated for quite a while prior to this season. He was getting flack for not scoring enough goals, there were some who wanted him out but mostly for not hitting the net, his effort was never questioned and neither was his fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 He was getting flack for not scoring enough goals, there were some who wanted him out but mostly for not hitting the net, his effort was never questioned and neither was his fitness. Being a resident of NW London, I come across a lot of Gooners fans. It was not just his goal scoring. He was perceived as being too negative, always passing sideways, too slow (as in slowing play down too much) and having poor ball retention. Plenty wanted shot of him, he was held up by a fair few I know as being representative of their 'problems', i.e. Average players not really good enough to take them where they wanted to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Why are people so obsessed with what he cost? It's not coming out of your pocket, is it? Never forget mate >> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4314803.Saints_are_relegated_as_league_deduct_points/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Never forget mate >> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4314803.Saints_are_relegated_as_league_deduct_points/ I'm not saying forget. And if we suddenly started spraying silly fees left right and center, with silly wages I would be worried. But, we aren't. Fees are bigger now than ever before, and that is simply because Prem clubs are just richer. The new tv deals are eye-watering. As ridiculous as it sounds, £12m (obviously a huge sum to most) isn't THAT much for a Premiership club. Even compared to very recent years, the latest TV deal takes clubs spending power way beyond what fans are used to. Especially Saints fans, that have been out of the Prem. Palace spent £8.5m(ish) on that Gayle for christ sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Never forget mate >> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4314803.Saints_are_relegated_as_league_deduct_points/ How short the memories of some......... Because ML and NC came along, we now apparently have the right to waste money. KRGs post belongs on your very own thread : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?47470-arrogance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Being a resident of NW London, I come across a lot of Gooners fans. It was not just his goal scoring. He was perceived as being too negative, always passing sideways, too slow (as in slowing play down too much) and having poor ball retention. Plenty wanted shot of him, he was held up by a fair few I know as being representative of their 'problems', i.e. Average players not really good enough to take them where they wanted to be. A reaction probably to selling RVP, getting rid off a good squad player does not makes sense, Ramirez is not supposed to be a squad player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 How short the memories of some......... Because ML and NC came along, we now apparently have the right to waste money. KRGs post belongs on your very own thread : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?47470-arrogance How exactly am I being arrogant? Read what I just posted. I've been making this same point for months. You seem unable to do a bit of joined up thinking. TV money and ticket prices go up = transfer fees go up. Isn't that hard really, is it? It isn't 2005 anymore. The market isn't the same. It's vastly different from 3/4 years ago with the latest sums on offer from the stupidly big new tv deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Utter garbage. Giordano posts quite a lengthy critique of why Ramirez might be having problems adapting to not only the English game, but also how we want him to play to fit our style. And your reponse is just two words rubbishing the entire post. Was it all rubbish, or only parts of it? Which parts? What do you think the reasons are that he is finding it difficult to adapt? Do you think that he would be better suited to playing for Arsenal? Come on; let's hear the reasons for your disparaging response, if you have any. Or is it that you're just not capable of expressing yourself in a more cogent manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 I'm not saying forget. And if we suddenly started spraying silly fees left right and center, with silly wages I would be worried. But, we aren't. . Gaston cost £12 million and is earning circa 50k a week - over the 4 years thats £22 million or 44,000 season tickets!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Gaston cost £12 million and is earning circa 50k a week - over the 4 years thats £22 million or 44,000 season tickets!! We did get a forearm smash last season that Hulk Hogan would have been proud of, in return... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Gaston cost £12 million and is earning circa 50k a week - over the 4 years thats £22 million or 44,000 season tickets!! Because season tickets are our only source of revenue then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 5 November, 2013 Share Posted 5 November, 2013 Utter garbage. Wow! Amazing to get two ends of the spectrum responses to one post. Someone thought it was a well-reasoned post but you thought it was utter garbage. Its a bit like watching Saints play and then coming on here to find that someone else at the match had the diametrically opposite point of view of how it went to you. It does happen quite a lot but it can confuse. Was i watching the same match? I don't recall a two word dismissal before on what I thought was a fairly harmless little post of mine but anyway thanks for your feedback, its the kind of thing you might say in the pub to your mate,but, just a heads up though Charlie, online it does come across as not so friendly. You don't think what I wrote regarding GR has any bearing on his form for Saints in any way shape or form at all? OK. What do you put it down to then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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