How long can roy ignore our other English players?

[Batman]

Lallana surely is on route for a call up. been brilliant this season

clyne too

 

I would be furious if I was either of those and failed to get called up for the next round of friendlies

throw shaw in the mix too

 

france must be amazing if morgan cant get a look in

 

 

sadly, we all know it is big club bias, especially in England

[OldNick]

Being selfish I don't want our bright young players being burnt out playing for England, and mixing with the big time Charlie's.

[Batman]

Being selfish I don't want our bright young players being burnt out playing for England, and mixing with the big time Charlie's.

 

true. but surely, lallana offers more than cleverly, sterling?

we go on about not having players with natural ability on the ball. he has been outstanding so far this season.

[Saint Charlie]

Lallana and Clyne have been consistently excellent this season.

[Batman]

its so tragic seeing a player who has been terrible for liverpool get in ahead of him

[OldNick]

I noted on here a few weeks back that I felt AL had found a spark, and was looking good. Watching his interview on Sky after today's game he seems to have found a new confidence, he has matured and this season may become a major influence for us

[Badger]

its so tragic seeing a player who has been terrible for liverpool get in ahead of him

 

Not to mention Woy's faith in Danny Bellw^nk, but then again he does play or MancU

[Batman]

Not to mention Woy's faith in Danny Bellw^nk, but then again he does play or MancU

 

I can see why welbeck comes in. but cleverly is just plain average and only gets in on the back of his playing (occaisionally) for united

 

same as sterling. He has been crap for almost the whole of 2013. yet gets called up.

such a shame really that for so long, the national team selections are so blinkered

[Smirking_Saint]

Sterling has done naff all this season, lallana wouldnt be replacing Cleverley in the england set up but should probably be near it on his own merits.

 

Clyne should be close imo

[Badger]

I can see why welbeck comes in.

such a shame really that for so long, the national team selections are so blinkered

 

Can you ? I thought he was a liability or England the other night, and as posed on the thread at the time, I was let wondering if he was playing in clown shoes from the lack of control,and inability to stay on his feet. Perhaps he is England's Guly.

I was just thankful the cross from Baines did not go near his head, and Rooney got to it, otherwise the ball might have bounced vertically off of him and out of the stadium.

Agree on team selections.

[Rebel]

Wellbeck works hard but his touch is far more often than not truly terrible

 

Sturridge is one of those Hollywood players - selfish to the core and no where as near as good as he thinks he is.

 

Those two, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley and Milner are only in the England squad because of the clubs they play for - there are better English players out there than them - but it's big club syndrome

[tajjuk]

Utd are even doing that well yet Cleverley not in the squad today, Wellbeck and Smalling both on the bench.

 

Sterling on the bench today for pool and hasn't done anything this season or really much since bursting on the scene early last season.

 

Milner on the bench for City.

 

Not sure how these players keep getting in the England squads when they don't play. He's shown hell pick new players by picking Townsend and Lambert so I think Lallana deserves a shout, doesn't have the pace of a Wellbeck or Stirling but far more technically and more to the mental side of his game. I've always though Lallana has a bit of Joe Cole about him and England were never really sure where to play him either because like Lallana he didn't have pace yet played on the wing.

[mulletsaint]

Wellbeck works hard but his touch is far more often than not truly terrible

 

Sturridge is one of those Hollywood players - selfish to the core and no where as near as good as he thinks he is.

 

Those two, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley and Milner are only in the England squad because of the clubs they play for - there are better English players out there than them - but it's big club syndrome

 

I agree that players often get in because of the teams they represent and not because of form. I also agree that on form many of those players should not be in the England squad. However I don't really agree on them all being poor players.

 

Sturridge is the form English forward in the league so far this season. He undoubtedly has skill but comes across as a bit of a knob. Granted in the last England game he came across as a Jermain Defoe type but at Liverpool I think he's looked anything but greedy.

 

Personally I like Welbeck. Great team player, decent skill, who's touch occasionally let's him down. Not uncommon in an English player now is it? Doesn't score enough, but I'd say that's at least in part down to how he's asked to play.

 

Cleverly's a decent player, similar to JWP in that he's all about retaining possession.

 

Milner's not my favourite player but his versatility is in his favour as is that of the two defenders you mention. England are in transition where centre backs are concerned so I can see why they get in the squad.

 

I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either.

[Turkish]

Lallana was superb today, Shaw is clearly class and Clyne I quality too. Neil Warnock tipped Clyne a few weeks back to be the long term England right Back and an example to other young players in that he didn't leave Palace too early and when he did went to a good club where he would play.

 

As for Schinderlin his tracking and tackle on Wellbeck just before our goal was absolutely superb, probably won't show it on MOTD but it really was top draw.

[red&white56]

As for Schinderlin his tracking and tackle on Wellbeck just before our goal was absolutely superb, probably won't show it on MOTD but it really was top draw.

 

Watched the game on a stream and had the priveledge to see it 3 or 4 times on replays - it was a superb tackle! the commentators were still trying to figure out how he'd managed to run so fast and catch him (WellbecK) up - it's worth staying up for MOTD to see it again!

[Graffito]

I agree that players often get in because of the teams they represent and not because of form. I also agree that on form many of those players should not be in the England squad. However I don't really agree on them all being poor players.

 

Sturridge is the form English forward in the league so far this season. He undoubtedly has skill but comes across as a bit of a knob. Granted in the last England game he came across as a Jermain Defoe type but at Liverpool I think he's looked anything but greedy.

 

Personally I like Welbeck. Great team player, decent skill, who's touch occasionally let's him down. Not uncommon in an English player now is it? Doesn't score enough, but I'd say that's at least in part down to how he's asked to play.

 

Cleverly's a decent player, similar to JWP in that he's all about retaining possession.

 

Milner's not my favourite player but his versatility is in his favour as is that of the two defenders you mention. England are in transition where centre backs are concerned so I can see why they get in the squad.

 

I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either.

 

I agree with your comments about Sturridge for Liverpool. He's learnt to play with his head up and links well with Suarez. I don't agree at all about Wellbeck. Since, as you say, his first touch lets him down he shouldn't, imo, be in the England team. Berkamp was interviewed on the BBC today and was saying its all about the first touch. Lallana's first touch is good. Has to be to give him time on the ball since he doesn't have pace.

[Batman]

I agree that players often get in because of the teams they represent and not because of form. I also agree that on form many of those players should not be in the England squad. However I don't really agree on them all being poor players.

 

Sturridge is the form English forward in the league so far this season. He undoubtedly has skill but comes across as a bit of a knob. Granted in the last England game he came across as a Jermain Defoe type but at Liverpool I think he's looked anything but greedy.

 

Personally I like Welbeck. Great team player, decent skill, who's touch occasionally let's him down. Not uncommon in an English player now is it? Doesn't score enough, but I'd say that's at least in part down to how he's asked to play.

 

Cleverly's a decent player, similar to JWP in that he's all about retaining possession.

 

Milner's not my favourite player but his versatility is in his favour as is that of the two defenders you mention. England are in transition where centre backs are concerned so I can see why they get in the squad.

 

I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either.

 

Then why does sterling keep getting called up.

 

Would hen if he played for Stoke?

[The Kraken]

I agree that players often get in because of the teams they represent and not because of form. I also agree that on form many of those players should not be in the England squad. However I don't really agree on them all being poor players.

 

Sturridge is the form English forward in the league so far this season. He undoubtedly has skill but comes across as a bit of a knob. Granted in the last England game he came across as a Jermain Defoe type but at Liverpool I think he's looked anything but greedy.

 

Personally I like Welbeck. Great team player, decent skill, who's touch occasionally let's him down. Not uncommon in an English player now is it? Doesn't score enough, but I'd say that's at least in part down to how he's asked to play.

 

Cleverly's a decent player, similar to JWP in that he's all about retaining possession.

 

Milner's not my favourite player but his versatility is in his favour as is that of the two defenders you mention. England are in transition where centre backs are concerned so I can see why they get in the squad.

 

I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either.

This is probably the most sensible thing I've read on here for ages.

[Saint in Paradise]

It's funny really as the vast majority of supporters for any team other than the so called big time

charlies all say the same thing about so called big club syndrome. However all the time the mainly

London media keep banging on about how wonderful anyone who plays/is on the bench for them is

then I suspect the England manager ( whoever he is ) will only have the nerve to pick someone from

another team now and then. He will know that if/when the media turn against him his days are numbered.

[Smirking_Saint]

I agree that players often get in because of the teams they represent and not because of form. I also agree that on form many of those players should not be in the England squad. However I don't really agree on them all being poor players.

 

Sturridge is the form English forward in the league so far this season. He undoubtedly has skill but comes across as a bit of a knob. Granted in the last England game he came across as a Jermain Defoe type but at Liverpool I think he's looked anything but greedy.

 

Personally I like Welbeck. Great team player, decent skill, who's touch occasionally let's him down. Not uncommon in an English player now is it? Doesn't score enough, but I'd say that's at least in part down to how he's asked to play.

 

Cleverly's a decent player, similar to JWP in that he's all about retaining possession.

 

Milner's not my favourite player but his versatility is in his favour as is that of the two defenders you mention. England are in transition where centre backs are concerned so I can see why they get in the squad.

 

I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either.

 

Absolutelty bang on, the last paragraph is basically why I cant be arsed to talk abot England any more.

[Batman]

Then why would cleverly get in whilst unable to get into a poor unites side. Why not pick someone who is playing and on form

. Same for sterling

[Graffito]

"I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either."

 

Absolutelty bang on, the last paragraph is basically why I cant be arsed to talk abot England any more.

 

It's not about "world class" it's about the best players available.

[mulletsaint]

Then why would cleverly get in whilst unable to get into a poor unites side. Why not pick someone who is playing and on form

. Same for sterling

 

"I'm all for bigging up our players when they deserve it, but I can't be arsed with all this anti-big club players mentality just for the sake of it. The players you mention may not be world class, but then again none of ours mentioned are either."

 

 

 

It's not about "world class" it's about the best players available.

 

I'm not saying Lallana deserves to be in the squad less than Welbeck, Cleverly or Sterling. However, the first two have played for England numerous times and have done well. In that case the manager will always plump for the players that have experience for important matches like the ones just gone. I agree Lallana should get the nod for the next couple of friendlies. There are plenty of players he should be in there in front of, Young for one.

 

United may be having troubleand Cleverly may not be in the side but, if it wasn't for JWP coming through with such promise, I'd be happy to have Cleverly here. He can see a decisive attacking pass and would suit our style perfectly.

[simo]

Everyone thinks they show be playing for England at the world cup ! Did anyone else read Nolan moaning that no west ham players are getting picked for England and how he should of been capped by now !?

[SarniaSaint]

Being selfish I don't want our bright young players being burnt out playing for England, and mixing with the big time Charlie's.

 

This I have already said on another thread what I think of the England team and how it is selected :lol:out of the WC in the group games and a waste of the plane fair:lol:

[The9]

Lallana surely is on route for a call up. been brilliant this season

clyne too

I would be furious if I was either of those and failed to get called up for the next round of friendlies

throw shaw in the mix too

france must be amazing if morgan cant get a look in

sadly, we all know it is big club bias, especially in England

 

Lallana needs to do this consistently for another few games to get a(nother) call up. He's been "not good enough for England" for about 40 games and good enough for about 5.

Clyne needs to sustain his level for a couple of months, and to undo the memory of his poor U21 summer campaign when he personally did not play well.

Shaw has Baines and Ashley Cole ahead of him, but if Cole fades away might get a call up.

James Ward Prowse might also be a contender sooner or later, but he may need to be a regular starter first.

 

Oh, and I think Sturridge has been excellent this season and will become a massive player (I don't mean "fat") for England over the next 5 years. Welbeck, however, is the black Brett Ormerod with a worse touch, more pace and fewer goals.

Edited 20 October, 2013 by The9

[Batman]

Lallana needs to do this consistently for another few games to get a(nother) call up. He's been "not good enough for England" for about 40 games and good enough for about 5.

Clyne needs to sustain his level for a couple of months, and to undo the memory of his poor U21 summer campaign when he personally did not play well.

Shaw has Baines and Ashley Cole ahead of him, but if Cole fades away might get a call up.

James Ward Prowse might also be a contender sooner or later, but he may need to be a regular starter first.

 

Oh, and I think Sturridge has been excellent this season and will become a massive player (I don't mean "fat") for England over the next 5 years. Welbeck, however, is the black Brett Ormerod with a worse touch, more pace and fewer goals.

why isnt that the case for liverpool/united players?

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

I'm not saying Lallana deserves to be in the squad less than Welbeck, Cleverly or Sterling. However, the first two have played for England numerous times and have done well. In that case the manager will always plump for the players that have experience for important matches like the ones just gone. I agree Lallana should get the nod for the next couple of friendlies. There are plenty of players he should be in there in front of, Young for one.

 

United may be having troubleand Cleverly may not be in the side but, if it wasn't for JWP coming through with such promise, I'd be happy to have Cleverly here. He can see a decisive attacking pass and would suit our style perfectly.

 

Jeez Cleverley is garbage. Lallana ten times the player.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[lloydie]

Welbeck is a slight improvement on Heskey. A slight improvement.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Luke Shaw's time will surely come one day - but probably not next summer.

 

It must be said that never being 'fit' enough to play in England U21 games is not helping his cause in the meantime.

[toofarnorth]

Lallana surely is on route for a call up. been brilliant this season

clyne too

 

I would be furious if I was either of those and failed to get called up for the next round of friendlies

throw shaw in the mix too

 

france must be amazing if morgan cant get a look in

 

 

sadly, we all know it is big club bias, especially in England

 

And what about Jose being overlooked by Portugal!

[Smirking_Saint]

why isnt that the case for liverpool/united players?

 

Well Ive tried to explain the probable reasoning god knows how many times Jamie but you just put it down to big club bias.

 

Also, in an england team that now plays an adapted 433 where will Adam fit in ?

[Saint_Tony]

Can't see Clyne getting picked. Richards is back in the frame at City, have always rated him and can see him getting back in the England squad. Shaw is just unfortunate in that we have 2 quality left backs already. Baines is absolute class, such a shame Roy doesn't have a similar selection dilemma in other positions. Lallana has a chance of being called up, but will really have to take his chance in the same way Townsend has. Hopefully Cleverley will disappear from Hodgson's plans, he has failed miserably on the international stage. We seem to have a lot of central midfielders so JWP has a limited chance too. Hopefully with our rise up the table, other fans and the media will see what a fantastic group of English players we have. Right now, they are performing better than Jones, Smalling, Cleverley etc as we as playing regularly. Roy won't be able to ignore them if we keep up this sort of forn though

[Batman]

Well Ive tried to explain the probable reasoning god knows how many times Jamie but you just put it down to big club bias.

 

Also, in an england team that now plays an adapted 433 where will Adam fit in ?

 

you have your views, I have another.

players that are dire, have been dire for a while and no where near starting for their clubs that continuously get called up only really do so because of the club they play for.

 

that does not mean it is the case for all.

[Saint Mikey]

Shaw has got two exceptional players in front of him (Cole, Baines), plus quite a few others that have more experience and are decent (Gibbs, Bertrand, Rose). He's going to have play well for us and for the U21s to go to the WC ahead of all these players. There'll be plenty of time for him anyway.

[Colinjb]

He can ignore them for as long as he likes! Keep them focused on their club form.

[david in sweden]

IF (as has been suggested before) the England squad is chosen from players in the top six clubs... what are all those Man.Utd players doing there?.

 

Rooney?... OK... but Carrick is a complete waste of space (not to mention his poor positioning)....and Cleverley and Welbeck find it hard to get off the bench to get a sub.appearance.

[david in sweden]

Shaw has got two exceptional players in front of him (Cole, Baines), plus quite a few others that have more experience and are decent (Gibbs, Bertrand, Rose). He's going to have play well for us and for the U21s to go to the WC ahead of all these players. There'll be plenty of time for him anyway.

 

it's still a long way to the actual WC games. Injuries can play a key role in selection.

 

Anyone out for any length of time loses that top level fitness quickly. IF Ashley Cole is out much longer he'll find it tough to get back in the Chelsea line-up, although his experience is invaluable...fitness is the first priority.

[The9]

why isnt that the case for liverpool/united players?

 

I would imagine the assumption is that they must already be performing to an adequate level to be in their club sides to begin with, the assumption being that Lallana will get picked for Saints even if he's not firing on all cylinders - and he's not got the same level of big-game experience.

 

Which Liverpool players do you think are not worth their place then? Sturridge and Gerrard are worth their places, Johnson's injured and hasn't done anything majorly wrong for England, can't defend Henderson but he's not been on the pitch for ages for England and nor has Sterling, who's still living off his first 3 months as a pro nearly 18 months ago.

 

I agree that some of the Man U players chosen shouldn't ever have got near the squad in the first place, but they do have European experience and Prem-winning experience and even that knowledge counts for something.

[The9]

IF (as has been suggested before) the England squad is chosen from players in the top six clubs... what are all those Man.Utd players doing there?.

 

Rooney?... OK... but Carrick is a complete waste of space (not to mention his poor positioning)....and Cleverley and Welbeck find it hard to get off the bench to get a sub.appearance.

 

Carrick is an excellent player to have when you've got the ball, not so great when you don't. Welbeck will get a contract out of some bottom-half suckers when Man U don't renew it in a couple of years and thereafter disappear from view. I've not seen Cleverley do anything, ever, to suggest he's anything other than someone who can probably control a ball with the fitness to run around in a Prem match for 90 minutes without achieving anything.

[Saint_Tony]

Clyne made Garth Crooks' (yes I know, terrible pundit) team of the week, in which he has recommended him for an England call up

[westmidlandsaint]

Everyone's favourite person Neil Warnock was on TalkSport this morning singing Nathaniel Clyne's praises saying with England's rightback's ie Walker & Johnson they are both good going forward but with Clyne he can defend as well as attack.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I find it bizarre that when talking about Welbeck, the first thing that gets mentioned is his running.

 

Not his technique, positioning, touch, link up, holding-up of play, dribbling, heading, or most importantly finishing. These are the things that should be top of a strikers list surely?

 

Sums up my empathy for England really, "He runs around a lot, so must be good for the England side".

[studentsaint]

When walker was suspended I couldn't believe all we had were 2 CBs that can do a job there, especially seeing as Roy knew he was a yellow away from missing a game. Should choose between the man united reserves and put Clyne in to push walker. 2 players for each position.

[skintsaint]

Sums up my empathy for England really, "He runs around a lot, so must be good for the England side".

 

That's because about ten years ago the English game lacked pace, so then the academies, FA etc looked to correct that by bringing in loads of fast lads, but also forget to teach the kids the other skills.