edprice1984 Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/248740/Football_Arrest_BO_Statistics_2012-13.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 I think that means 0.006% of people at football matches get arrested. (1762 out of 29m+) Practically a crime free zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 I think that means 0.006% of people at football matches get arrested. (1762 out of 29m+) Practically a crime free zone. Yet the police still film people doing nothing wrong and treat us like criminals just for going to football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Jeweller Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 surprised to see in table 5 that there were no arrests for pitch incursion in the outside stadia category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Yet the police still film people doing nothing wrong and treat us like criminals just for going to football. That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restark19 Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? ...they do stand there filming everyone at the games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? Tell that to my missus. We went to Leeds many years ago and they practically stuck the camera up her nose. I had to restrain her from walloping him with her handback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 ...they do stand there filming everyone at the games? They are filming you in the queues at shops, banks and petrol stations. Do they treat drivers, account holders or just consumers in general as criminals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Tell that to my missus. We went to Leeds many years ago and they practically stuck the camera up her nose. I had to restrain her from walloping him with her handback. Agreed there were some bad times many years ago but he was talking about here and now. Times have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? Ah, my mistake. What I've seen with my own eyes is clearly utter rubbish. Thanks for clearing that one up for me. Those policemen weren't filming large sections of our support for no apparent reason at numerous games home and away then. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Agreed there were some bad times many years ago but he was talking about here and now. Times have changed. You clearly don't go to many games these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Ah, my mistake. What I've seen with my own eyes is clearly utter rubbish. Thanks for clearing that one up for me. Those policemen weren't filming large sections of our support for no apparent reason at numerous games home and away then. Cheers. Yup and i've definitely not seen police filming us as we queue to go into grounds - home and away - and there's definitely never any cameras in pubs before hand. Sounds like it's time for me to go to the shrink though, since i'm sure i've seen all of the above but apparently i imagined it. On another note looks like the Chelsea/Cardiff thing the other season has properly hammered those two clubs on the banning order front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Yup and i've definitely not seen police filming us as we queue to go into grounds - home and away - and there's definitely never any cameras in pubs before hand. Sounds like it's time for me to go to the shrink though, since i'm sure i've seen all of the above but apparently i imagined it. On another note looks like the Chelsea/Cardiff thing the other season has properly hammered those two clubs on the banning order front. Of course, if 'Charlie Wayman' says it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen! MK Dons away in League One, police definitely weren't stood at the top of the stairs, in the way I might add, filming the fans after the final whistle. Didn't happen! Definitely don't remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20247482 This is utter rubbish. What evidence do the BBC have for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 They are filming you in the queues at shops, banks and petrol stations. Do they treat drivers, account holders or just consumers in general as criminals? Let's not start this again. There is a clear difference between a fixed view, stationary CCTV camera and a handheld police camcorder being specifically pointed at you for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolsi Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 What about the security cameras inside that can be moved around to focus on individual seats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 I feel sorry for Cheltenham . They have had their supporter base reduced by 50% following the banning of one of their supporters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? Because it is absolutely correct.....you are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggy Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 the main reason for filming by the OB at sporting events and potential public order situations is so that the facial recognition software can id any known offenders. if you aint on their system you aint got anything to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Alert Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Also massive respect to the one person who got arrested for alcohol offenses at the women's Olympic football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Also massive respect to the one person who got arrested for alcohol offenses at the women's Olympic football. #Lad #Bantersaurusrex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Also massive respect to the one person who got arrested for alcohol offenses at the women's Olympic football. No amount of alcohol could make women's football entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Yet the police still film people doing nothing wrong and treat us like criminals just for going to football. Maybe there's a link between the low arrest levels and the amount of filming that takes place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 I have huge amounts of respect for the police. They do a very difficult job, often in incredibly difficult circumstances, with their hands tied behind their backs. But I have seen too many times, when the police (For their own reasons) have deliberately created hot spots or caused ension, to effect a reaction. The transport police seem to be the worst, but I simply don't trust old bill when it comes to football. If any coppers reads this forum and want to discuss further, contact the mods and I am happy for my details to be passed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Yup and i've definitely not seen police filming us as we queue to go into grounds - home and away - and there's definitely never any cameras in pubs before hand. Sounds like it's time for me to go to the shrink though, since i'm sure i've seen all of the above but apparently i imagined it. On another note looks like the Chelsea/Cardiff thing the other season has properly hammered those two clubs on the banning order front. Not that they scan Facebook, Twitter, the Internet sites you lot all visit etc etc etc etc Least of your worries IF you are going to football to enjoy the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Tell that to my missus. We went to Leeds many years ago and they practically stuck the camera up her nose. I had to restrain her from walloping him with her handback. Perhaps he thoght she was fit. Surely a perk of the camera job is homing in on the chicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 13 October, 2013 Share Posted 13 October, 2013 Yup and i've definitely not seen police filming us as we queue to go into grounds - home and away - and there's definitely never any cameras in pubs before hand. They were blatantly filming all Saints supporters at Palace a few years ago as we filed along the back of the stadium to the entrance gates. No idea why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 It's just clear proof that policing is over-heavy at football. Obviously, police officers on over-time will disagree. To a man who only has a hammer, every problem is a nail. The ludicrous filming by the police should stop. They are like children playing video games. It's mental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manji Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 That is utter rubbish. What evidence have you for supporting such a claim. Why make things up just to stir the pot? They were doing it big time at the the Swansea game.The only two incidents I saw was a Saints fan with a disgusting Hot Dog and that fat Swansea fan flashing his stomach.There at least 4 filth that I saw filming including a couple of Heddlu ******s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 When I was in the Northam up to last season, you would often have a rozzer with his camcorder in hand filming the fans. I thought that it was deliberately provocative. By all means film an incident involving the police restraining a troublemaker, as evidence to back up a complaint against them, but filming us when we are just watching the match is totally unecessary. It's a pity that we aren't allowed to bring in camcorders ourselves, as it would be very satisfying to point them back at the police and see how they liked it. It seems to me that they pick a particular type of officer to police matches, ones who are deliberately confrontational and who like to make a point that they are more macho than the fans and look for any excuse to exercise their powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 the main reason for filming by the OB at sporting events and potential public order situations is so that the facial recognition software can id any known offenders. if you aint on their system you aint got anything to worry about. If this is true, and I hope it is, as it makes the most sense, then it would make sense for them to actually tell fans this. But still, I'm sure there are far less obtrusive ways of doing so, like at the turnstile? Now I'm paranoid about Saints' 'fan in the stand' half-time competitions... is that actually to give the Police more footage to study? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Perhaps he thoght she was fit. Surely a perk of the camera job is homing in on the chicks. She was when I first met her but after forty years of living with me she's put on some weight and let things slip a bit. Mind you, she probably counts as 'fit' in Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 They were blatantly filming all Saints supporters at Palace a few years ago as we filed along the back of the stadium to the entrance gates. No idea why. They used to say that they did it so that if there was any trouble later they could identify the troublemakers from their clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 When I was in the Northam up to last season, you would often have a rozzer with his camcorder in hand filming the fans. I thought that it was deliberately provocative. By all means film an incident involving the police restraining a troublemaker, as evidence to back up a complaint against them, but filming us when we are just watching the match is totally unecessary. It's a pity that we aren't allowed to bring in camcorders ourselves, as it would be very satisfying to point them back at the police and see how they liked it. It seems to me that they pick a particular type of officer to police matches, ones who are deliberately confrontational and who like to make a point that they are more macho than the fans and look for any excuse to exercise their powers. Just use your camera phone. Very tempting, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Just use your camera phone. Very tempting, actually. You will get arrested under Anti-terrorism act. It has happened in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 You will get arrested under Anti-terrorism act. It has happened in the past. Then I will have video evidence of the fact I've done nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Can I legally film the police? There is no law stopping anyone filming in a public place, so if you are on the streets you can film without asking permission – the Metropolitan Police’s own guidelines (adopted by all police forces in Britain) make clear that “police have no power to stop them filming or photographing incidents or police personnel”. There is a law – Section 58A of the Terrorism Act 2000 – that says police officers can stop you filming them if they believe that the video will be used for purposes of terrorism. However, police guidelines state that: “it would ordinarily be unlawful to use section 58A to arrest people photographing police officers in the course of normal policing activities… An arrest would only be lawful if an arresting officer had a reasonable suspicion that the photographs were being taken in order to provide practical assistance to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism”. Of course, the key phrase, in the first sentence is 'public place'. I don't know what the ground regs state about the Police - just tried to find them and can't see them on the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Just use your camera phone. Very tempting, actually. The use of a camcorder would be much more intimidating, as an individual phone camera would hardly be noticeable. Perhaps when they hold up their camcorders, hundreds of mobile phone cameras pointed in their direction might get the message across though. If anybody was arrested for filming the fuzz at a football match on grounds that they were a suspected terrorist, it would be laughed out of court. We are not a Police State - Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 This a style of policing that has been adopted for some while, they film you in a normal situation where you are not hiding your face, they get a good picture of you. You can then later be identified if you are causing trouble later. There us a bike meet near me every Wednesday evening, the fuzz do the same there. It's hardly worth getting upset over seeing as we are filmed all the time, there is no difference. Although I bet the tapes would get lost in a incident where the kops were at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Although I bet the tapes would get lost in a incident where the kops were at fault. The season pompey first got promoted to the premier league we drew them in the cup at St Marys. Amazingly () 50 plus pompey fans made it off the train through the city centre and upto St Marys street, without an escort or alerting the police to their presence () It was all pre arranged and it kicked off at the Joiners. But as luck would have it, the police filmed the whole thing (Would love to see the flying bike again)....... A cynic might suggest they wanted it to kick off so they could film everything. Anyway (According to this guy), they did their bit, filmed the whole thing and sent the recordings to the usual place, which were entrusted into a die hard, no nonsense Saints fan........ who by complete accident, managed to lose / ruin every bit of footage that was taken :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 If this is true, and I hope it is, as it makes the most sense, then it would make sense for them to actually tell fans this. But still, I'm sure there are far less obtrusive ways of doing so, like at the turnstile? Now I'm paranoid about Saints' 'fan in the stand' half-time competitions... is that actually to give the Police more footage to study? Finger prints at turnstitle followed by retinal scan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 thing that always makes me laugh is in the anti-capaitalist rallies the yobs are there with there scaffold poles and crash helmets, me at nearly 60 cannot take a plastic bottle top into SMS or go to an away game at Fratton without a CRB check. football fans are easy targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Agreed there were some bad times many years ago but he was talking about here and now. Times have changed. "These are not the droids you're looking for." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 14 October, 2013 Share Posted 14 October, 2013 Of course, the key phrase, in the first sentence is 'public place'. I don't know what the ground regs state about the Police - just tried to find them and can't see them on the website. No, it isn't. It's irreleavnt whether it's public or private. It is now illegal for a citizen to film the police for the purpose of filming the police. Can't remember the act of Parliament - c2008/9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 October, 2013 Share Posted 15 October, 2013 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7888301.stm It would be strange that there were two pieces of legislation on this matter at more or less the same time, so in the absence of any link to anything else, then I conclude that the act was to prevent the filming of the police for fear of terrorism, rather than just for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 15 October, 2013 Share Posted 15 October, 2013 Wes is quite right, the exact wording is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58A And the guidance issued by the Home Office is here:https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/photography-and-counter-terrorism-legislation Photography and Section 58A of the Terrorism Act 2000 The offence concerns information about persons who are or have been at the front line of counter-terrorism operations, namely the police, the armed forces and members of the security and intelligence agencies. Section 58A makes it an offence to publish, communicate, elicit or attempt to elicit information about any of such persons which is of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism. An officer making an arrest under section 58A must reasonably suspect that the information is of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism. An example might be gathering information about the person’s house, car, routes to work and other movements. All clearly designed to be terrorism linked. And the reason I then mentioned the public/private thing is that it then comes down to the Ground Regulations about what recording of images is permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 15 October, 2013 Share Posted 15 October, 2013 I get filmed while at the shops, I have my vehicle hit multiple ANPR cameras while driving on the motorway and at petrol station/service stations, I am filmed by CCTV walking around at work and my internet is monitored. Does it bother me? No. Unless I have done something wrong, the footage and data will not be viewed and will be deleted after a certain time period has passed. Also, Hampshire police officers now all use body worn video so better get used to it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23776839 Sorry but that misses the point. Just watch the atmosphere change, once a copper gets a camcorder out. Sometimes it is hard not to believe that it isnt deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JN9 Posted 15 October, 2013 Share Posted 15 October, 2013 I get filmed while at the shops, I have my vehicle hit multiple ANPR cameras while driving on the motorway and at petrol station/service stations, I am filmed by CCTV walking around at work and my internet is monitored. Does it bother me? No. Unless I have done something wrong, the footage and data will not be viewed and will be deleted after a certain time period has passed. Also, Hampshire police officers now all use body worn video so better get used to it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23776839 Completely agree... perhaps I'm just being niave but I see no particularly bad reason for the filming. I've also not seen any coppers filming for a few years now. Or am I just not very observant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 15 October, 2013 Share Posted 15 October, 2013 I get filmed while at the shops, I have my vehicle hit multiple ANPR cameras while driving on the motorway and at petrol station/service stations, I am filmed by CCTV walking around at work and my internet is monitored. Does it bother me? No. Unless I have done something wrong, the footage and data will not be viewed and will be deleted after a certain time period has passed. Also, Hampshire police officers now all use body worn video so better get used to it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23776839 A poor comparison I'm afraid. You don't have a store detective following you around with a handheld camera assuming you are going to take something? It changes the atmosphere completely as, quite rightly, we live in a society where we are presumed innocent. You are being paid to be at work, quite rightly your company has KPI's in place to monitor the fact you are working effectively. However we are maying more and more to go to a football match these days yet fans, like yourself, are happy to be treated like a piece of **** after coughing up £30+ just to get in the door (minus a bottle top or other potentially dangerous "you could take someone's eye out with that" weapon). Also, anyone that just says it's OK as you are doing nothing wrong obviously were not at Tranmere away a couple of season ago when they arrested a few of our fans for (genuinely, not a knee jerk reaction) absolutely no reason at all. Despite witnesses including a 60 year old woman in their defence, the Police tried claiming they insulted them with the word (and I may be wrong here as not being from Birkenhead I've never in my life heard the word used before) "Bute". These 2 fans now have football banning orders. I'm sorry but I would never ever trust a football copper. They need to justify their (rather cushy) role and won't hesitate to stitch fans up to reach their quota. I cringe when I see some of our more "excitable" support take pleasure in the fact the football OB know their name, talk to them etc. That's a huge red flag, stay away from them, avoid eye contact and never, ever speak to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 October, 2013 Share Posted 15 October, 2013 Completely agree... perhaps I'm just being niave but I see no particularly bad reason for the filming. I've also not seen any coppers filming for a few years now. Or am I just not very observant? As Gemmel rightly points out, the atmosphere does change, because the use of the handheld camcorders is a form of intimidation. You might not have seen it recently, but perhaps you're not in the Northam nearest to the away fans, because I can assure you that it is quite frequently aimed towards the home fans there. The difference between the footage filmed that way and all of the static cameras around the stadium, is that the camera also picks up chants and banter from much closer and then if that was used against certain fans, then we can have the inevitable debate about what is acceptable as banter and what crosses some line determined by the PC brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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