Gaston On His Way Out?

[Glasgow_Saint]

Éver Banega in Gaston out!!

 

= yes please

[kwsaint]

Éver Banega in Gaston out!!

 

= yes please

 

And spend the loose change left over on a cover for LB

[Sour Mash]

Hence Steven Davis' role in the side at present - not the best ability, and I say that with no disrespect, but my word he puts a shift in & can understand why Pochettino would like him. In our current system, I'd rather have Davis in the no.10 role than Ramirez, and that tells you everything you need to know about Gaston's shortcomings. No-one is doubting his ability, but his work rate leaves a lot to be desired.

Don't think it's just a case of work rate really. Just as much to do with the ease with which Ramirez can.give the ball away when we have men committed forward; I think MP trusts Davis much more to retain and protect our possession. Makes us a bit boring and 'safe', but effective and hard to catch us out on the break.

[Trumush]

We should play him more, especially at home when teams come and park the bus. In most games I've seen this season we have had trouble unlocking defences, which he can do. Should play him in the hole, behind Osvaldo. Think Rickie's gone off the boil a bit/people finding him out (as cliche goes). Gaston can still do the unusual. (as could a certain MLT)

 

It's a good job MLT is'nt starting his Saints career now, he wouldn't have lasted a dozen games before he was shipped out.

[Jack]

Whatever happens, I would back MP to make the right call.

 

This.

 

Best possible outcome IMO is that MP playing hardball and demanding more, Gaston goes about things the right way and forces his way into his plans. Not sure how likely that is though. His decision making needs a lot of work IMO, he's good enough to play the world class pass at times but his success rate is so so poor, needs to know when to do it and when just to play it simple. That's been my biggest frustration with him. Then there's getting him fit and strong enough to be involved in the high press and defensive duties.

[doggface]

This.

 

Best possible outcome IMO is that MP playing hardball and demanding more, Gaston goes about things the right way and forces his way into his plans. Not sure how likely that is though. His decision making needs a lot of work IMO, he's good enough to play the world class pass at times but his success rate is so so poor, needs to know when to do it and when just to play it simple. That's been my biggest frustration with him. Then there's getting him fit and strong enough to be involved in the high press and defensive duties.

 

Great post jack, agree with each and every point. If however the ideal is not possible then I agree gaston to move on and us to replace.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I know I would rather have him on the bench than Do Prado notwithstanding how much he costs us.

[doggface]

Hell yeah, but we cannot afford to have a player of that expense sat on the bench collecting dust. Better to cash in and reinvest in a new #10 who can press and not lose possesion 50% of the time.

 

I am one of gastons biggest fans but this year so far nothing, and we are doing well. He is very talented but no mlt who could get away with a lot more because he consistently delivered in other ways.

[Roger]

It's a good job MLT is'nt starting his Saints career now, he wouldn't have lasted a dozen games before he was shipped out.

 

Sorry but that's garbage. Le tiss worked hard in training for many years and flair players are different where it's about them hunting the ball more. Le tiss was always the last off the training pitch after practising set pieces etc for ages.

[Window Cleaner]

If we want to continue playing Lambert and Osvaldo there's no place for a player like Gaston. Either we go #10 or we don't but you just cannot have Gaston,Lambert,Lallana and Osvaldo on the pitch from the start. I still believe the problem will simply fade away when we eventually go back to just 1 striker. In the meanwhile there's the Capital 1 Cup to advance in.

[RobM]

I know I would rather have him on the bench than Do Prado notwithstanding how much he costs us.

 

That's actually an interesting comparison... Ramirez is 100x the quality of Guly, but Guly will run for days, chase everything, stick his head where it hurts and get back up to do it again. Clearly MP rates this over potential and reputation, since Guly gets the nod over Ramirez, especially for those last 15-minutes when you need some energy and workrate.

[northam soul]

That's actually an interesting comparison... Ramirez is 100x the quality of Guly, but Guly will run for days, chase everything, stick his head where it hurts and get back up to do it again. Clearly MP rates this over potential and reputation, since Guly gets the nod over Ramirez, especially for those last 15-minutes when you need some energy and workrate.

 

Like at Fraton Park you mean.

[Jack]

That's actually an interesting comparison... Ramirez is 100x the quality of Guly, but Guly will run for days, chase everything, stick his head where it hurts and get back up to do it again. Clearly MP rates this over potential and reputation, since Guly gets the nod over Ramirez, especially for those last 15-minutes when you need some energy and workrate.

 

That was Richard Chaplow. Guly is the Brazilian guy who doesn't know what he's doing, remember?

[St_Tel49]

Yep.

 

Like we should have sold Lallana for £500,000 too. People on here, lol.

Yes - I ignore the valuations volunteered on here since nobody has a clue what the monetary value of our players is - there is a major tendency to undervalue. My cat has a better chance of getting it right.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I know I would rather have him on the bench than Do Prado notwithstanding how much he costs us.

 

Wasn't Guly like £1m in L1?

 

I wonder how that actually compares to £12m in the premiership with the massively increased revenue?

[Saint Garrett]

Wasn't Guly like £1m in L1?

 

I wonder how that actually compares to £12m in the premiership with the massively increased revenue?

 

£500k I believe.

[doddisalegend]

To quote Nigel Adkins "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" Gaston may have talent (though we've seen only brief glimpses of it IMO) but he lacks work rate and bottle which as others have said is the cornerstone of our current system. If Gaston had Steven Davis work rate he'd be an asset as it is when plays he just feels like a passanger in the team. Gaston is no MLT (though you suspect under MP MLT wouldn't get a game either)

[Roger]

To quote Nigel Adkins "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" Gaston may have talent (though we've seen only brief glimpses of it IMO) but he lacks work rate and bottle which as others have said is the cornerstone of our current system. If Gaston had Steven Davis work rate he'd be an asset as it is when plays he just feels like a passanger in the team. Gaston is no MLT (though you suspect under MP MLT wouldn't get a game either)

 

Yes he would. Le tiss worked hard until 98. He hunted the ball and his end product was amazing.

[Turkish]

Wasn't Guly like £1m in L1?

 

I wonder how that actually compares to £12m in the premiership with the massively increased revenue?

 

I'm pretty sure someone valued Hammond at £1m a year or so ago.

[melmacian_saint]

You can have extraordinary technique like he has but if you don't have the pace to go with it then you're doomed in English football.

 

I can't also explain why he just doesn't seem to bulk up as time goes by.

 

I also think that Steven Davis, while he won't change games on his own, does make the team work as he picks passes and recycles possession with incredible ease.

Edited 13 October, 2013 by melmacian_saint

[Charlie Wayman]

He doesn't get many chances that's for sure presumably because he does not play well enough in training matches? At least let's hope that is the case because if it is just old fashioned favouritism that governs who plays and who doesn't then we are in serious trouble. On the few chances he has had to start he has fared no better and no worse than any of the other front runners.

 

On the other hand it is easy to imagine that Pochettino's oh! so chummy "hugga-mugga style" could get up anybody's nose after a while. If Gaston has decided that he doesn't want to be part of such nonsense then he will have switched off ages ago so it would be better for him to be away to a saner environment sooner rather than later. After all how many of us want to be too up-close and personal with our bosses?

[melmacian_saint]

He doesn't get many chances that's for sure presumably because he does not play well enough in training matches? At least let's hope that is the case because if it is just old fashioned favouritism that governs who plays and who doesn't then we are in serious trouble. On the few chances he has had to start he has fared no better and no worse than any of the other front runners.

 

On the other hand it is easy to imagine that Pochettino's oh! so chummy "hugga-mugga style" could get up anybody's nose after a while. If Gaston has decided that he doesn't want to be part of such nonsense then he will have switched off ages ago so it would be better for him to be away to a saner environment sooner rather than later. After all how many of us want to be too up-close and personal with our bosses?

 

I assume you don't like Pochettino, then?

[Batman]

He doesn't get many chances that's for sure presumably because he does not play well enough in training matches? At least let's hope that is the case because if it is just old fashioned favouritism that governs who plays and who doesn't then we are in serious trouble. On the few chances he has had to start he has fared no better and no worse than any of the other front runners.

 

On the other hand it is easy to imagine that Pochettino's oh! so chummy "hugga-mugga style" could get up anybody's nose after a while. If Gaston has decided that he doesn't want to be part of such nonsense then he will have switched off ages ago so it would be better for him to be away to a saner environment sooner rather than later. After all how many of us want to be too up-close and personal with our bosses?

 

How would an arsenal fan know anything?

[ericb]

Hopefully we'll sell him and bring in someone like Wooton, Omerod or Sharp. Since according to this place they're the best that can be had in modern football.

[Bailey]

Don't think it's just a case of work rate really. Just as much to do with the ease with which Ramirez can.give the ball away when we have men committed forward; I think MP trusts Davis much more to retain and protect our possession. Makes us a bit boring and 'safe', but effective and hard to catch us out on the break.

 

Agreed, though Ramirez tries to 'make things happen' as it were, so is much more likely to concede possession than someone of Davis' ilk. On a side note, never thought I'd see the day where we have a player worth upwards of £12m unable to get into our squad!

[shurlock]

If we could reinvest immediately and get a Banega-type player, then it would be a no-brainer.

[Lord Duckhunter]

To quote Nigel Adkins "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" Gaston may have talent (though we've seen only brief glimpses of it IMO) but he lacks work rate and bottle which as others have said is the cornerstone of our current system. If Gaston had Steven Davis work rate he'd be an asset as it is when plays he just feels like a passanger in the team. Gaston is no MLT (though you suspect under MP MLT wouldn't get a game either)

 

As Alex Ferguson says "working hard is also a talent".

 

Gaston gives the ball way in the wrong areas way too much and his set piece delivery is woeful. Matt's all round game was far better than his, Gaston is just not good enough at the basic stuff you need in English football.

[Twiggy]

He was pretty awesome on my Football Manager account. Shame it's not emulated in real life.

[Avenue Saint]

He doesn't get many chances that's for sure presumably because he does not play well enough in training matches? At least let's hope that is the case because if it is just old fashioned favouritism that governs who plays and who doesn't then we are in serious trouble. On the few chances he has had to start he has fared no better and no worse than any of the other front runners.

 

On the other hand it is easy to imagine that Pochettino's oh! so chummy "hugga-mugga style" could get up anybody's nose after a while. If Gaston has decided that he doesn't want to be part of such nonsense then he will have switched off ages ago so it would be better for him to be away to a saner environment sooner rather than later. After all how many of us want to be too up-close and personal with our bosses?

 

Please let it be recorded Charlie Wayman thinks pochettino is overseeing an insane environment!

 

What a joke of a poster you truly are.

[Sour Mash]

Hopefully we'll sell him and bring in someone like Wooton, Omerod or Sharp. Since according to this place they're the best that can be had in modern football.

Has anyone on this thread actually said anything like that?

[Faz]

For the life of me I can't see where this "Gaston doesn't work hard" thing has come from. I've never seen him not put a shift in.

 

The issue for me is that he wants too much time and needs to be sharper in his decision making.

 

The quote when he was bought was that we wanted to build the team around him. That clearly ain't happening any time soon, so I guess we'd all be pretty miffed in that position.

[david in sweden]

We have seen some real touches of class from Ramirez (not so often, and not nearly enough) ...but the fact remains - if you spend £12 million on a player, (at least in the Saints' squad) ...

.....then he should be on the team sheet every match, and not on the bench.

 

It seem sad / ironic that MP has brought about a positive change attitude in quite a few players, but not it seems Ramirez.

He was not Pottechino's signing of course, and isn't their some ancient animosity between Argentina and Uruguay? ..oh whatever ..

The fact is that ...another season of occasional selection and 20 minutues sub. apps is not what we want for the investment. Many of us could easily choose JWP ahead of Ramirez.

 

Whoever is right /wrong is difficult to assess, but it's clear from previous years that some Latin players do not adjust to the " physical side " of English football, no matter how skilful they are.

 

Unless there is a remarkable change of attitude ..on " someone's " part .. a move back to Italy may be a win-win situation for everyone concerned, (and his agent will get another % cut.)

Edited 13 October, 2013 by david in sweden

[eelpie]

The last time he came on to the pitch late in the second half our game improved and we turned a likely defeat into a draw.

Perhaps he is very good for short periods.

[CWD]

I don't think you can accuse him of not working hard, he just works in a different way. Gaston is not a player who is going to chase down defenders constantly but that's because he isn't that sort of player. He works hard in terms of his endeavour to create and his ability to find space. Unfortunately these are qualities that aren't as appreciated in the English game, we tend to admire physically outstanding players rather than technical ones - hence the admiration of the likes of Chaplow and Hammond and more recently Morgan of course.

 

Of course the best teams have a mix of both types of players and the truly best players have a mix of both styles to their game.

 

Within MP's gameplan the likes of Schneiderlin and Davis are far more likely to stand out because they have that physical edge which allows them to play very aggressively. Gaston however builds his game around being technically and mentally superior to his opponents (reading the game better essentially) but we don't have enough of those players in our first XI, so there aren't many guys on Ramirez' wavelength. Mainly because they don't fit MP's style.

 

Essentially I think Ramirez is a very talented player and he will almost certainly go on to great things, but if Cortese really believes that MP is the man to reach his ambitions then GR just won't fit into his style. You have to adjust for a player like him and carry him in the odd game (like we did with Guly in the NPC sometimes) but our style is so based around teamwork and physicality that I don't think he'll reach the heights he wants to with us.

[ericb]

Has anyone on this thread actually said anything like that?

 

Not on this thread no, but according to many Wooton was better than Morgan and to some sharp better than osvaldo.

 

Davis as better to gaston is the new one, based on a cup game against Bristol City.

 

Basically a lot ok here don't really see the reality of a players talent sadly and live in headless chicken superstar land

[RobM]

Not on this thread no, but according to many Wooton was better than Morgan and to some sharp better than osvaldo.

 

Davis as better to gaston is the new one, based on a cup game against Bristol City.

 

Basically a lot ok here don't really see the reality of a players talent sadly and live in headless chicken superstar land

 

You say that, despite nearly every single post saying Ramirez is clearly a very talented player. You're clearly making things up to suit a pre-formed opinion that doesn't reflect reality and definitely doesn't reflect this thread.

[Sour Mash]

Not on this thread no, but according to many Wooton was better than Morgan and to some sharp better than osvaldo.

 

Davis as better to gaston is the new one, based on a cup game against Bristol City.

 

Basically a lot ok here don't really see the reality of a players talent sadly and live in headless chicken superstar land

How many people have said that Sharp is better than Osvaldo? About 1 out of 1000 posters?

 

MP currently prefers Davis to Ramirez, I guess he prefers headless chickens as well.

[suewhistle]

Gaston however builds his game around being technically and mentally superior to his opponents (reading the game better essentially)

 

He may read the game better but then he plays a hospital pass or gives the ball away. I think we are all frustrated because we can see his talent but he's just not doing it at the moment. He's actually a decent tackler as well when he puts his mind to it. I'm not sure it's because he doesn't fit MP's style: MP is not Ian Branfoot FFS. But anyone who has played football at _any_ level will know that the more you put in the more you get out. Hopefully the extra training sessions will help and we'll end up seeing Gaston on the OS training gallery pictures looking happy and involved. At the moment the fact that Guly is head of him is a mite worrying...

[alpine_saint]

I see the penny has dropped for many...

[Saint_clark]

Just had a quick look on tinternet about Argentine-Uruguayan relations. Seems like Uruguay is the Scotland to Argentina's England. Maybe that's involved. Personally, think he should knuckle down, get some good performances in and clear off next summer, if he wants.

 

Yeah, because Scottish and English players/managers have never worked well together.

[St Chalet]

I see the penny has dropped for many...

 

Alps, I know you have never been a fan.

 

However this type comment was made last year about Boruc, Fonte, JRod and starting to be made about Osvaldo. Often peddled by those who rated Wotton over Scheiderlin

 

His lack of game time and our change of style is the issue, not his undoubted ability.

[Olallana]

Would be interesting how our team would be set up if Rickie got a niggle that kept him out 1-2 games....

[trousers]

Would be interesting how our team would be set up if Rickie got a niggle that kept him out 1-2 games....

 

I know this sounds completely wrong but a small part of me has been hoping that would happen just to see how things panned out. Time to visit the priest to repent my sins. Lord may the SWF thought police forgive me.

[Colinjb]

Would be interesting how our team would be set up if Rickie got a niggle that kept him out 1-2 games....

 

Have to agree in an odd sort of way. It's the same kind of curiosity when you go to a cup game knowing the kids are playing, you look forward to seeing how the different options will work.

[The9]

Disagree. Has been very underwhelming and if we can make most of our money back then get rid and invest in a more effective player.

 

I am now firmly in this camp, I'm sure he'll superb in 6 or 7 years' time, but... fat lot of good that does us now.

[The9]

Would be interesting how our team would be set up if Rickie got a niggle that kept him out 1-2 games....

 

I'd be pretty comfortable that our front four would be Rodriguez-Davis-Lallana; with Osvaldo up top, based on recent matches.

[Rasiak-9-]

That's actually an interesting comparison... Ramirez is 100x the quality of Guly, but Guly will run for days, chase everything, stick his head where it hurts and get back up to do it again. Clearly MP rates this over potential and reputation, since Guly gets the nod over Ramirez, especially for those last 15-minutes when you need some energy and workrate.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how people associate ability with laziness. If you've got the ability you are by default seen as lazy and if you've not got the ability people clutch at straws to argue you're hard working!

 

In the champo Guly was seen as a reasonably talented but very lazy and cowardly player.

[SaintBobby]

I'm a Gaston fan....but if we can get £10m for him in January, I'd offload him.

 

That said, if MP thinks he can mould him nin training, maybe it works out in the long-run...

[SaintRichmond]

This.

 

Best possible outcome IMO is that MP playing hardball and demanding more, Gaston goes about things the right way and forces his way into his plans. Not sure how likely that is though. His decision making needs a lot of work IMO, he's good enough to play the world class pass at times but his success rate is so so poor, needs to know when to do it and when just to play it simple. That's been my biggest frustration with him. Then there's getting him fit and strong enough to be involved in the high press and defensive duties.

 

 

Which beggars the question .... what Idiot thought he was worth £12M in the first place ??

 

I don't think he ever really wanted to be here. He is an expensive luxury we can well do without.

 

He actually makes MLT look like a 90 minute man. Something wrong somewhere IMHO.

[Toadhall Saint]

I see the penny has dropped for many...

 

Not so sure about that alps - for me I still think he is absolute class however I'm just not sure he'll ever do enough in the PL. I went to the Bristol City game knowing that he would be playing. He managed to score one of the best volleys I've seen in a long time but and this for me is the crux of the matter the rest of the game he was woeful - over/under hit passes in the main. I was hoping to see a good display from him given the opposition but he failed dismally - so for me he has a hell of a lot of improving to do - I'm just not sure he can.