Ticket Details: Sunderland Away - League Cup

[LGTL]

Just saw the website, that is an absolute disgrace!!

[Sour Mash]

As said above, you should definitely write to the football league (and email the northumbria police as well) demanding compensation.

I've already written to the football league, more out of principle than anything else, I'm under no illusions about the likelihood of getting anything back.

[Saint_clark]

Newcastle have got Man City that day, that's a far less distance...surely more sense to move them instead?

[LGTL]

You have to wonder how much resistance Saints put up to this, you'd like to think they'd try and look after their own fans.

[Window Cleaner]

Newcastle have got Man City that day, that's a far less distance...surely more sense to move them instead?

 

Citeh play Moscow on the 5th

[Window Cleaner]

You have to wonder how much resistance Saints put up to this, you'd like to think they'd try and look after their own fans.

 

if it's OB they'll have had no say whatsoever.Remember the bubble bus.

[Saint_clark]

Citeh play Moscow on the 5th

 

Fair enough then.

[Sour Mash]

if it's OB they'll have had no say whatsoever.Remember the bubble bus.

Then why announce a particular date, sell match tickets etc for it. Somewhere along the line basic communication and common sense between the various parties has gone out of the window.

[Griffo]

Absolutely livid. A lot of money paid out for our trains/hotel already and it's non-refundable. If someone anywhere has any sense and any conscience then they will be doing something to try help reinburse those of us that have been f*cked over by this. What I don't get is that they knew Sunderland and Newcastle were both playing the same night (or due to be) when they did the draw 3 weeks ago, so why 2 weeks before the game has it just been sorted out? Some way to treat your 'customers'.

[Window Cleaner]

Then why announce a particular date, sell match tickets etc for it. Somewhere along the line basic communication and common sense between the various parties has gone out of the window.

 

The blame probably lies squarely with the Northumberland Constabulary, they probably don't plan much in advance.

[Sour Mash]

The blame probably lies squarely with the Northumberland Constabulary, they probably don't plan much in advance.

WHo knows, I'd assumed that every "new" fixture would have to be signed off by local plod and that was one of the reasons why it took a little while to confirm the original date.

[stevegrant]

The blame probably lies squarely with the Northumberland Constabulary, they probably don't plan much in advance.

There would (should) have been discussions between the clubs and the police before the date was announced - don't forget, it took a week after the draw was made for them to confirm the date, so you would assume that time taken was because they were discussing with the police whether they could play on the Wednesday as well as Newcastle (whose game was confirmed for the Wednesday pretty quickly as Sky chose to televise it). The fact it was announced as the same night suggests the police originally allowed it, but have since made a U-turn on that decision.

[Saint_clark]

Not going but I've emailed the Football League to complain as well.

Edited 17 October, 2013 by Saint_clark

[Window Cleaner]

There would (should) have been discussions between the clubs and the police before the date was announced - don't forget, it took a week after the draw was made for them to confirm the date, so you would assume that time taken was because they were discussing with the police whether they could play on the Wednesday as well as Newcastle (whose game was confirmed for the Wednesday pretty quickly as Sky chose to televise it). The fact it was announced as the same night suggests the police originally allowed it, but have since made a U-turn on that decision.

 

Whatever the case might be the OS speaks of "strenuous representation" on behalf of the Plod to the Football League. The clubs probably wanted to play the match in the half terms holidays but at the end of the day the Plod had their way of things. As the Police don't seem to be able to control very much at all in the Uk nowadays they seem to be adopting an Adkinsian catchphrase "control the controlables"

[trousers]

The Football League shouldn't have confirmed the date before they had a cast iron (contractually enforceable) agreement with the police.

 

People's recourse for financial compensation is via the Football League. If the police broke their contract with the Football League then its up to the football league to make a third party claim from the police.

 

The football league will no doubt point people at a "circumstances beyond control" in some small print somewhere but the fact of the matter is that this situation was completely avoidable and within their control.

 

If people don't get any joy with compensation claims from the Football League then I'd suggest filing an on-line claim here: https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

Edited 17 October, 2013 by trousers

[Rut]

Gutted for the people who booked trains/flights/hotels.

 

The club could get themselves some good publicity by helping these people out (I mean we ain't talking 1000's of people/pounds here). Prove you've forked out non-refundable stuff and even if the club just dished out some signed shirts, free tickets etc that would be better than 'it ain't our fault'.

[bangkoksaint]

How about using some of that £200K to compensate? Unfortunately this just about sums up how football fans are considered and thought of.

[Bourno]

I am so flucked off about this . Half term the nipper and I have tickets and have booked travel. He can't make the following week as has school and i have a meeting in Warwick I can't get out of, now debating driving from Warwick to Sunderland in the afternoon and back home to Eastleigh afterwards.

[oldsarum]

I am so flucked off about this . Half term the nipper and I have tickets and have booked travel. He can't make the following week as has school and i have a meeting in Warwick I can't get out of, now debating driving from Warwick to Sunderland in the afternoon and back home to Eastleigh afterwards.

 

I'm in the same boat, as it was half term was taking lad who was really looking forward to trip

 

We are both unable to go on Nov 6th

 

 

I'd Booked hotel and train and paid out nearly £150, after waiting to make sure the date of game was confirmed as Oct 30th

 

Managed to get refund for Hotel, but not confident about getting train fare refunded

 

 

If I don't get train fare back from Grand Central will try Saints, football league, Northumberland Constabulary etc. to get my £99 back, maybe Saints might use some of thier £200K to compensate those affected by this ridiculous decision

[DuncanRG]

Hard to believe this couldn't have been avoided. Hope everyone who'd booked travel and accommodation gets their money back.

[Saint_clark]

Could see around 100 Saints fans up there for this now, at best.

[Orange]

Gutted for the people who booked trains/flights/hotels.

 

The club could get themselves some good publicity by helping these people out (I mean we ain't talking 1000's of people/pounds here). Prove you've forked out non-refundable stuff and even if the club just dished out some signed shirts, free tickets etc that would be better than 'it ain't our fault'.

 

It would be a tiny fraction of the 200k to help out a few (most of which who have consistently been on long trips like this to support the club ) who have been completely shafted, sad reflection on football that I doubt anyone high up has even given a thought to it.

[oldsarum]

It would be a tiny fraction of the 200k to help out a few (most of which who have consistently been on long trips like this to support the club ) who have been completely shafted, sad reflection on football that I doubt anyone high up has even given a thought to it.

 

Recieved this response form club this morning they not surprisingly are not interested in helping me get my money back

 

Thank you for your email.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the decision to move the Capital One Cup match against Sunderland was out of our control. This was put to the Football League by the Northumbria Police Section due to Newcastle and Sunderland playing at home on the same day and the fixture date being just 3 days after the Wear-Tyne derby. Whilst we understand that it took a while for the Football League to set the match date and this has since been re-arranged, we do advise supporters in our ticket Terms and Conditions that all fixtures are subject to change.

 

 

 

We can refund the face value of the match tickets, however I would advise that you take this further and contact the Football League regarding the additional costs that you have incurred.

 

 

So I'm now contacting Football league

[bangkoksaint]

Sums our club and football up really. Everyone seems to be pulling themselves off over Saints at the moment but the bottom line is we don't matter and if you think otherwise you're deluded. To be honest if Cortese could do without us he probably would.

[Sour Mash]

Recieved this response form club this morning they not surprisingly are not interested in helping me get my money back

 

Thank you for your email.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the decision to move the Capital One Cup match against Sunderland was out of our control. This was put to the Football League by the Northumbria Police Section due to Newcastle and Sunderland playing at home on the same day and the fixture date being just 3 days after the Wear-Tyne derby. Whilst we understand that it took a while for the Football League to set the match date and this has since been re-arranged, we do advise supporters in our ticket Terms and Conditions that all fixtures are subject to change.

 

 

 

We can refund the face value of the match tickets, however I would advise that you take this further and contact the Football League regarding the additional costs that you have incurred.

 

 

So I'm now contacting Football league

My mate got the same reply from the club. I emailed the Football League as soon as the move got announced, not heard anything back since.

[stevegrant]

To be fair, as much as I like to put the boot in on the absolute cluster**** that is our ticket office operations - and they certainly give us enough ammunition - the blame for this one can't be laid at their door.

 

Take your pick from Sunderland AFC, Northumberland Constabulary or the Football League.

[Sour Mash]

To be fair, as much as I like to put the boot in on the absolute cluster**** that is our ticket office operations - and they certainly give us enough ammunition - the blame for this one can't be laid at their door.

 

Take your pick from Sunderland AFC, Northumberland Constabulary or the Football League.

That is where the blame lies, but it would be an ideal opportunity to use a small percentage of the "£200k" to compensate those that had already booked stuff up.

[Saint_clark]

My mate got the same reply from the club. I emailed the Football League as soon as the move got announced, not heard anything back since.

 

No reply from the FL for me either.

[stevegrant]

That is where the blame lies, but it would be an ideal opportunity to use a small percentage of the "£200k" to compensate those that had already booked stuff up.

I assume their response to that would either be silence (as has been the current trend) or "that's for Premier League games only".

[Sour Mash]

I assume their response to that would either be silence (as has been the current trend) or "that's for Premier League games only".

Their response was silence on the matter based on the response I was shown on Saturday.

[JackanorySFC]

That is where the blame lies, but it would be an ideal opportunity to use a small percentage of the "£200k" to compensate those that had already booked stuff up.

 

Think I'm right in saying the £200k is donated by the Premier League for a Premier league fixture so they can't use this? Maybe they could use it for the league fixture at the SOL, not that it is a help right now of course.

 

I am also completely shocked at the general ineptitude of our Ticket Office, seriously it baffles me, however on this one the blame lies with the Football league and the OB, I (reluctantly) think it's not up to the club to compensate us for this one.

[trousers]

To be fair, as much as I like to put the boot in on the absolute cluster**** that is our ticket office operations - and they certainly give us enough ammunition - the blame for this one can't be laid at their door.

 

Take your pick from Sunderland AFC, Northumberland Constabulary or the Football League.

 

^This. Ultimately it's down to the Football League to get a cast iron agreement from all stakeholders to go ahead with the match before announcing the agreed date.

Edited 22 October, 2013 by trousers

[Saint_clark]

http://fsf.org.uk/blog/view/An-open-letter-to-Northumbria-Police

 

[h=1]An open letter to Northumbria Police[/h]

Southampton to Sunderland is one of the longer trips in English football so you'd think the authorities would be extra careful when scheduling it, wouldn't you? Think again. Ten days after the Capital One Cup fixture was confirmed, it was moved on police advice. In an open letter to Northumbria Police, FSF National Council member Ian Todd explains fans' frustration...

Re: Sunderland v. Southampton (6th November 2013)

Dear Northumbria Police,

Through bitter experience of losing money on non-refundable hotel and travel bookings, football supporters are mostly savvy nowadays about not making arrangements too far in advance.

So when the draw for the 5th Round of the Capital One Cup scheduled both Newcastle and Sunderland at home, the fans of all four clubs must have been cautious about making their arrangements to attend.

There was the possibility that either game could be moved for live TV transmission and there were obviously policing issues concerned with the games both being immediately after the Sunderland-Newcastle Premier League game. All of these factors were known on 26th September.

It was therefore, I submit, reasonable to assume, when, 12 days later, Sunderland announced their game would take place on 30th October that all agencies involved within and outwith the Safety Advisory Group had been fully consulted and agreed this date.

On that basis I, and I’m sure many other remotely located Sunderland fans [Editor's note - Ian lives in Middlesex], as well as the supporters of Southampton, made arrangements to attend the game.

Ten days later it was announced the date of the game had been changed, so making work release, travel and accommodation arrangements invalid. No factors had arisen during that 10-day period that were not fully known in the initial 12 day period so the question has to be asked, “Why?”.

I am advised by the Football League, who were so embarrassed by the change of plan that they phoned me personally to apologise and pre-warn me [Editor's note - Ian sits on football's Fixtures Working Party] that the change was at Northumbria Police’s request.

Such prevarication and then decision reversal is both irresponsible and inconsiderate to the many affected by it. Unfortunately, your force has previous in such situations - I refer you to my letter of 20th September 2011 which noted that it took from 17th June to 30th August to agree a date and kick-off time for the Sunderland-Norwich game on 18th September that year.

Clearly no lessons have been learned, no greater sympathy for travelling supporters engendered.

I should be grateful for a credible explanation of your inability to announce a binding and earlier decision concerning this Capital One Cup game and a firm assurance that every attempt will be made in future to avoid such discreditable public relations.

Yours faithfully - Ian D. Todd

FSF comment - This letter was sent to Northumbria Police's HQ by post and press office via email, asking for comment. Neither have responded. It was also copied to the office of the Northumbria Police & Crime Commissioner who said they had sent the email to the Northumbria Police legal team who would "address the issues raised". That was last week and we're still waiting.

 

Edited 28 October, 2013 by Saint_clark

[John Boy Saint]

Recieved this response form club this morning they not surprisingly are not interested in helping me get my money back

 

Thank you for your email.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the decision to move the Capital One Cup match against Sunderland was out of our control. This was put to the Football League by the Northumbria Police Section due to Newcastle and Sunderland playing at home on the same day and the fixture date being just 3 days after the Wear-Tyne derby. Whilst we understand that it took a while for the Football League to set the match date and this has since been re-arranged, we do advise supporters in our ticket Terms and Conditions that all fixtures are subject to change.

 

 

 

We can refund the face value of the match tickets, however I would advise that you take this further and contact the Football League regarding the additional costs that you have incurred.

 

 

So I'm now contacting Football league

 

Hardly a surprise just doing the bare minimum that they are obliged to do, but then if the Block 20 Eviction attitude of "f**k writing to them just let them find they ain't sitting there next season when they can't renew on line" is anything to go by Customer Services at Saints is an empty office with lots of mail pushed under the door.

 

It would have taken no effort for the Club to say they would help to seek recompense for the additional financial inconvenience fans have incurred as a result. It's been done before Man City half price 1st season at CoM Stadium refund of Monies from the Steaua ticket overcharge.

But then in society in general Football fans still all live in terraced houses, work down the Factory 5 1/2 days a week, and will never question anything that inconveniences them because a) they are thick & lazy b) they are creatures with a drug like dependency on supporting their team.

 

However back to the game by some quirk of fate I can go as I will have been working in Dundee Tuesday, Dumfries Wednesday, then have to trundle down to Milton Keynes for Thursday AM, so if anyone was smart enough to get a hotel en route home out of Sunderland and they can't get their money back on their pre-booked room, PM me and see if we can sort something out.

[Saint_clark]

Hardly a surprise just doing the bare minimum that they are obliged to do, but then if the Block 20 Eviction attitude of "f**k writing to them just let them find they ain't sitting there next season when they can't renew on line" is anything to go by Customer Services at Saints is an empty office with lots of mail pushed under the door.

 

It would have taken no effort for the Club to say they would help to seek recompense for the additional financial inconvenience fans have incurred as a result. It's been done before Man City half price 1st season at CoM Stadium refund of Monies from the Steaua ticket overcharge.

But then in society in general Football fans still all live in terraced houses, work down the Factory 5 1/2 days a week, and will never question anything that inconveniences them because a) they are thick & lazy b) they are creatures with a drug like dependency on supporting their team.

 

However back to the game by some quirk of fate I can go as I will have been working in Dundee Tuesday, Dumfries Wednesday, then have to trundle down to Milton Keynes for Thursday AM, so if anyone was smart enough to get a hotel en route home out of Sunderland and they can't get their money back on their pre-booked room, PM me and see if we can sort something out.

 

It would have taken no effort to say it, but a lot of effort to implement it. The club have done nothing wrong in this.

[oldsarum]

Good news for me, managed to get complimentary ticket from Grand Central that I can use anytine in next 12 months so hopefully be able to use for League game at Sunderalnd in January

[John Boy Saint]

It would have taken no effort to say it, but a lot of effort to implement it. The club have done nothing wrong in this.

I didn't say they had done much wrong but a bit of support from the Football Club in helping those individuals who will lose out through being well prepared, if only in name to get something back is far more powerful than a fragmented attempt by individuals who could be easily fobbed off!

It's not like the headache that would be caused if we were taking the 8000ish Chelsea took to Arsenal, but then if those numbers were involved the decision to move the game would not have been taken so easily.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

It would have taken no effort to say it, but a lot of effort to implement it. The club have done nothing wrong in this.

I didn't say they had done much wrong but a bit of support from the Football Club in helping those individuals who will lose out through being well prepared, if only in name to get something back is far more powerful than a fragmented attempt by individuals who could be easily fobbed off!

It's not like the headache that would be caused if we were taking the 8000ish Chelsea took to Arsenal, but then if those numbers were involved the decision to move the game would not have been taken so easily.

[Sour Mash]

Good news for me, managed to get complimentary ticket from Grand Central that I can use anytine in next 12 months so hopefully be able to use for League game at Sunderalnd in January

How did you manage that if you don't mind me asking?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Good news for me, managed to get complimentary ticket from Grand Central that I can use anytine in next 12 months so hopefully be able to use for League game at Sunderalnd in January

How did you manage that if you don't mind me asking?

[Hedgehog]

Only found out tonight that game had been moved, I feel that this is an insult to Saints supporters, are we classed as hardcore and likely to cause trouble, not as far as I know, don't think our fans are real troublemakers.

I would have thought minimal police would have been required. Or are the police insinuating the Sunderland fans are thugs? Can honestly not see why this game has been moved. Do they never have Newcastle and Sunderland games at home at the same time?

[Saint_clark]

Only found out tonight that game had been moved, I feel that this is an insult to Saints supporters, are we classed as hardcore and likely to cause trouble, not as far as I know, don't think our fans are real troublemakers.

I would have thought minimal police would have been required. Or are the police insinuating the Sunderland fans are thugs? Can honestly not see why this game has been moved. Do they never have Newcastle and Sunderland games at home at the same time?

 

In fairness, no they don't. The PL fixtures are worked out so they never play at home the same day.

[SaintBobby]

I was intending to go.

 

But I'm not sure I have enough loyalty points.

 

I'm not even sure how to find out how many such points I have.

 

Confused and disllusioned.

 

Ah well...:-)

[Hedgehog]

In fairness, no they don't. The PL fixtures are worked out so they never play at home the same day.

Cheers, couldn't be bothered to Google to check whether they do allow games to be played same day, fair enough if that is the norm.

[Saint_Tony]

Quite handy that the draw for the next round is tonight,so we will know whether it's worth trying to win this one

[JRM]

Quite handy that the draw for the next round is tonight,so we will know whether it's worth trying to win this one

 

yeah, i've delayed my decision on whether or not to go to Sunderland next week, will see after the draw tonight, possibles at the moment ;

 

Manchester United

Chelsea

Leicester

West Ham

Stoke

Spurs or Hull

Newcastle or Manchester City

 

going to be a tough last 8 from the look of it, no minnows like league two Bradford this year.

[trousers]

Leicester would be good, on more than one level

[bpsaint]

There may be a sensible explanation to this, but given that Newcastle and Sunderland can't both play at home on the same night, why on earth did they not have one match on the Tuesday and one on the Wednesday? Why move it by a whole week instead?

[Sour Mash]

There may be a sensible explanation to this, but given that Newcastle and Sunderland can't both play at home on the same night, why on earth did they not have one match on the Tuesday and one on the Wednesday? Why move it by a whole week instead?

Because they'd both played on Sunday, so neither would agree to playing again on the Tuesday. The problem isn't them playing it a week later, it's confirming the date for this week, then at pretty short notice moving it to a week later after people have booked stuff up.