Sour Mash Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 As a business your main source of income (in the case of Saints, it's now the Premier League TV money) will be the key area of focus. As such maintaining it will be the priority - The 'core,' the main, the most important priority. It's just common sense. The other sources of income will still be relevant but not take the same amount of importance. You are trying to make the argument too black and white, i've not at any point said that TV money is the be all and end all or that the gate receipts are irrelevant, the closest that we have seen to that is Whitley Grandad saying that they would be 'Irrelevant.' I've just pointed out that they will not be the absolute point of importance to the club that they would be to many fans. How does a club trying to stay in the Premier League affect what it's approach to ticketing and gate receipts is? The two things are completely unconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 No business will consider any revenue to be 'secondary'... it's all revenue, full stop, and is all part of the bottom line. Any business that considers any part of its income to be secondary, will fail. Attendance is important, but not as important as the overall income from matchday sales. They will have analysed the figures to death to work out an optimum ticket price, to gain maximum revenue from ticket sales AND other matchday income... Supporters clearly aren't a nuisance... but there's a commercial balance that the club will look to strike, to maximise income without alienating the people who generate that income. Indeed. It's 'market price sensitivity'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 (edited) How does a club trying to stay in the Premier League affect what it's approach to ticketing and gate receipts is? The two things are completely unconnected. So league status has no effect on ticket pricing? The entire club's business model will be utterly dependent on how other aspects are going. You will not be able to justify £50 ticket prices if you are expected to lose every week or do not have the profile of the more famous clubs in the league. Edited 9 October, 2013 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joneth Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 The opposition doesn't really dictate which matches I go to, if anything I'm more likely to turn up to Palace than Man Utd because a) its cheaper and b) we aren't as likely to get smashed. I simply can't afford to watch us every week and have steadily been going less regularly for probably the last 5 years. Its not the same 2-3000 not showing up each game, in reality there are probably several thousand who only go to 5 or 6 home games a season for one reason or another. Regardless of whether a ticket is £45, £35 or £25, many people will still not be able to justify going more than once every couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 As a business your main source of income (in the case of Saints, it's now the Premier League TV money) will be the key area of focus. As such maintaining it will be the priority - The 'core,' the main, the most important priority. It's just common sense. The other sources of income will still be relevant but not take the same amount of importance. You are trying to make the argument too black and white, i've not at any point said that TV money is the be all and end all or that the gate receipts are irrelevant, the closest that we have seen to that is Whitley Grandad saying that they would be 'Irrelevant.' I've just pointed out that they will not be the absolute point of importance to the club that they would be to many fans. I don't think I said 'irrelevant', just 'secondary'. Out of interest, how much do we get for a televised game these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 I don't think I said 'irrelevant', just 'secondary'. Out of interest, how much do we get for a televised game these days? My apologies. In which case that further solidifies the point that no-one is dismissing the income from Gate receipts at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 My apologies. In which case that further solidifies the point that no-one is dismissing the income from Gate receipts at all. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 October, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2013 So league status has no effect on ticket pricing? The entire club's business model will be utterly dependent on how other aspects are going. You will not be able to justify £50 ticket prices if you are expected to lose every week or do not have the profile of the more famous clubs in the league. People are already whinging the cost is too high and the kick off times don't suit them. What will they say when we are playing European football and most kick off times are moved to Sundays together with regular midweek games and the additional cost associated with this? If we make the champions league and people have to stump up £45 for Napoli followed by £40 for Swansea at 1.30 on a Sunday in 2016 would we expect both games to sell out as they should do for a top 4 club playing champions league football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 People are already whinging the cost is too high and the kick off times don't suit them. What will they say when we are playing European football and most kick off times are moved to Sundays together with regular midweek games and the additional cost associated with this? If we make the champions league and people have to stump up £45 for Napoli followed by £40 for Swansea at 1.30 on a Sunday in 2016 would we expect both games to sell out as they should do for a top 4 club playing champions league football? I do like your attitude of 'when.' Right now though that is just speculation. Would love the chance to see what would happen. Personally, I would expect there to be sustained attendances to begin with as European football would be a novelty. Should we get to a point where that novelty wears off then things will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Isn't it only the Europa League teams who have their matches automatically moved to Sundays (as Europa League games are on Thursday evenings)? Simple answer then, is to bypass the Europa League and head straight for the top 4...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Isn't it only the Europa League teams who have their matches automatically moved to Sundays (as Europa League games are on Thursday evenings)? Simple answer then, is to bypass the Europa League and head straight for the top 4...... I think that's the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 October, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2013 I do like your attitude of 'when.' Right now though that is just speculation. Would love the chance to see what would happen. Personally, I would expect there to be sustained attendances to begin with as European football would be a novelty. Should we get to a point where that novelty wears off then things will be interesting. What about our bread and butter of league football? We are top 4 now and getting low crowds for attractive games. Of people can't afford it now surely this would only have a negative impact on attendances if fans were asked to stump up for at 3 more midweek games too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 What about our bread and butter of league football? We are top 4 now and getting low crowds for attractive games. Of people can't afford it now surely this would only have a negative impact on attendances if fans were asked to stump up for at 3 more midweek games too. It would be difficult for people, yes, I agree. But 'when' it happens we shall see. I do not expect us to be able to get high percentage attendances given the scenario you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 What about our bread and butter of league football? We are top 4 now and getting low crowds for attractive games. Of people can't afford it now surely this would only have a negative impact on attendances if fans were asked to stump up for at 3 more midweek games too. especially as ST will not be valid for European games, so us OAP's or nearing that age may watch on TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 So league status has no effect on ticket pricing? The entire club's business model will be utterly dependent on how other aspects are going. You will not be able to justify £50 ticket prices if you are expected to lose every week or do not have the profile of the more famous clubs in the league. But that still doesn't explain why the club would make any less effort than in previous years to maximise gate receipts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 But that still doesn't explain why the club would make any less effort than in previous years to maximise gate receipts? I've not said it would. I've just pointed out that it's no longer our main source of income and as such no longer has the same absolute importance to our fortunes and liabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Sunday Premiership football is difficult for families of Saints fans with sons who play Tyro etc youth football, especially a 1.30pm kick off, when even a 10am youth kick off becomes a mad rush to get to St Marys. Maybe this somewhat explains the low take up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 As long as I can watch them I don't care how many others go. I really don't get why some people put importance in it. Plus I would hardly say Swansea, Palace, West Ham and Sunderland were 'attractive games' as Turkish tries to imply. When the bigger teams visit it will be sell outs. And this thread will vanish until we play a lower team then it will be bumped by one of the usual suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Sunday Premiership football is difficult for families of Saints fans with sons who play Tyro etc youth football, especially a 1.30pm kick off, when even a 10am youth kick off becomes a mad rush to get to St Marys. Maybe this somewhat explains the low take up . Copied from my post in the Spurs/Chelsea TV announcement thread, we'll have had 5 of our first 20 games moved to the Sunday either for TV or Europa League, so that's probably a factor, but I think season tickets have become less attractive in terms of the standard concept of buying in bulk and receiving a discount as a result. In years gone by, getting a season ticket meant you effectively got anywhere between 2-3 and 6 games free, depending on which division we were in at the time. This season, for the bulk of season ticket holders, in the wing/goal areas of the ground, you paid £604 for the renewal price, but the total match ticket price of all 19 games (6 in Cat A at £40, 6 in Cat B at £37 and 7 in Cat C at £32) is £654, which is a saving of £50, which is only just better than one free game. If you think you're likely to miss more than one home game a season, and don't go to many away games, from a purely financial perspective what's the point in having a season ticket? Despite having stayed up relatively comfortably last season (certainly more comfortably than most would have expected, I think), and having seen unprecedented investment in the first team, the club are 700 season ticket holders down on last season. Clearly there are a whole host of reasons why that may be, but price is likely to be a major one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Sunday Premiership football is difficult for families of Saints fans with sons who play Tyro etc youth football, especially a 1.30pm kick off, when even a 10am youth kick off becomes a mad rush to get to St Marys. Maybe this somewhat explains the low take up . Not just Tyro :-) CSYL games this weekend nearly all had 10 am kick offs ..no wonder poor Ian who does the ref allocation hates Saints games on Sundays as he doesn't get many refs. As Steve puts it all out below its getting to the point where I am considering giving up my ST next year as I run a team and coach and it a complete rush to get to games. I have already reigned in away games and watch at the Horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 October, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Not just Tyro :-) CSYL games this weekend nearly all had 10 am kick offs ..no wonder poor Ian who does the ref allocation hates Saints games on Sundays as he doesn't get many refs. As Steve puts it all out below its getting to the point where I am considering giving up my ST next year as I run a team and coach and it a complete rush to get to games. I have already reigned in away games and watch at the Horns. Well they better get used to it as if we achieve our stated aims then Sunday kick offs will be the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Maybe if we expanded the stadium ticket costs could go down and more people would go therefore justifying the larger stadium. Whilst 4000 under capacity is not ideal the business model for ticket revenue is the highest amount of tickets x price, if we dropped the price by £1 probably no more people would go and so this would just be a wasted 30k, if we drop them by £10 then 4000 people more may go which would be a reduction in earnings - all made up figures but at theses figure the pricing is pretty accurate for the stadium - not saying I agree with the principle and espescially that its not been correct for poor cup games. What this does show is that quite possibly the attendance does not necessarily mirror the need for expansion alone which is the point I think you are basing your argument on. Im not convinced an expansion at this stage is a great move either but I also don't think we should be basing arguments on statements like "challenging at the top of the table" when the vast majority I would imagine think this is a false position, albeit a very good start to the season indeed. This isn't correct. Demand and supply in any market means that unlike you suggest, if the club dropped the price by just £1, more people would come. Noone would consciously think.. "Oh that was my marginal £1 difference so I'll attend" but through simple economics we know that a price decrease will always lead to a demand increase. My friend and I were discussing exactly this on Saturday and we came to the same conclusion as the OP. Some people have been priced out of watching Saints. Ticket prices are rising when real wages are falling so this should not be a surprise to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 Well I gave up my ST when we reach the PL as the prices for me and the two kids rocketed. Last season I picked a few Cat C and league cup games because they were the cheapest. This season I've only done Palace (I wanted to do Swansea but it clashed with Nippers Tyro game so I chose Palace instead) Now nipper is a young adult at the tender age of 12 even a cat C game set me back 50+ quid not to mention travel, refreshments etc. I just can't justify the cost anymore even more so as I just don't find the games as entertaining or the atmosphere at SMS as much fun as I did in the lower leagues. All that means I'm a casual instead of a regular these days and I know I'm not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 9 October, 2013 Share Posted 9 October, 2013 If you think you're likely to miss more than one home game a season, and don't go to many away games, from a purely financial perspective what's the point in having a season ticket? The saving on an ST is pretty crp TBH but I get one for convenience of knowing same seat for every game with mates and haven't got to muck around with the admin of picking and choosing. Having said that the fact that they hiked by 5% or whatever is shocking considering the 60% increase in tv money. Passive acceptance by me and others though so wont change and sure the generic new kit will be £55 next season as well. If they hike next year though will consider a few games in the pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 Well they better get used to it as if we achieve our stated aims then Sunday kick offs will be the norm. Yep...and you will be able to post up a lot more of these threads because the crowds will drop and drop because not many will be able to afford ST and Europe games as well. Its all individual choice but I can't justify a grand for me and my lad and I will go and watch local leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 October, 2013 Author Share Posted 10 October, 2013 Yep...and you will be able to post up a lot more of these threads because the crowds will drop and drop because not many will be able to afford ST and Europe games as well. Its all individual choice but I can't justify a grand for me and my lad and I will go and watch local leagues. I'm not saying i think it's a good thing, but some people on here were indignant that if we were near the top of the table and challenging/in Europe coupled with the FACTS we live in an affluent area and will attaction zillions of casual fans from all corners of the country then we need to expand the stadium. If just doesnt seem to be panning out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 Yep...and you will be able to post up a lot more of these threads because the crowds will drop and drop because not many will be able to afford ST and Europe games as well. Its all individual choice but I can't justify a grand for me and my lad and I will go and watch local leagues. Don't worry. We've been reassured by the visionaries on this forum that thousands of new fans from Devon to Dover will be flooding in to support their local team. There will be a mad scramble for tickets every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 Yep...and you will be able to post up a lot more of these threads because the crowds will drop and drop because not many will be able to afford ST and Europe games as well. Its all individual choice but I can't justify a grand for me and my lad and I will go and watch local leagues. Perhaps at the end of the day people will stop taking all the family to football and it will go backwards in time. The other day they showed some images of a bloke with a little lad at the Everton-Newcastle game (I think) poor little bugger was about 3 or 4,totally kitted out in NUFC kit from head to toe and stuck there at about 9 in the evening, miles from home with his big fat dad who evidently thought that NUFC was the centre of the world. When Lukaku tore them apart he start crying, then he looked totally bored and 3/4 asleep. That sort of treatment of kids should be banned, don't know why blokes think that taking miniscule infants to football every week is one of the most important things in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 I do remember that when we were previously in the Prem, and I didn't have a season ticket then, it was often difficult to get tickets as games sold out quickly. How do attendances compare between now and then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 I do remember that when we were previously in the Prem, and I didn't have a season ticket then, it was often difficult to get tickets as games sold out quickly. How do attendances compare between now and then? not sure that the problem existed at St Mary's though, at the Dell with a 15K capacity it was to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 I remember Fulham at home last year was played at the same weekend and at the same kick-off time and it was also our worst attendance of the season. Sunday lunchtime is just not a popular hour for our fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 10 October, 2013 Share Posted 10 October, 2013 This season, for the bulk of season ticket holders, in the wing/goal areas of the ground, you paid £604 for the renewal price, but the total match ticket price of all 19 games (6 in Cat A at £40, 6 in Cat B at £37 and 7 in Cat C at £32) is £654, which is a saving of £50, which is only just better than one free game. Sorry to be a pedant but that adds up to £686 and then add another £38 for the ticket tax (if you get all your tickets online) so you could save up to £120!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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