Have we reached top level pricing at St Mary's?

[Turkish]

Sundays low crowd seem to suggest so. This one had all the ingredients of the matches we were assured we'd need an expanded stadium for. £35m invested in the summer, a team full of internationals challenging at the top of the table and attractive opposition. Indeed the various radio pundits were raving about how much they were looking forward to the game. This wasn't the view of saints fans though as we only sold 4,000 tickets to casual fans with the same amount of seats remaining empty.

 

This was one of the games we were assured we'd need a bigger stadium for yet we got a crowd only sightly higher than our championship average. People have said it's too expensive on here in the past so perhaps the cost is now starting to see attendances dip and talk of expanding the stadium which we were told was desperately needed a year or so ago was premature.

[Sour Mash]

Thing is I don't think Sunday's game was that expensive - £32 a ticket I think? Will be interesting to see how many get sold for the Man City game at top whack.

 

I think the club have realised tickets aren't selling as well as expected, hence the announcement of the family ticket offers for the Fulham game.

[Hedgehog]

The ticket price doesn't help, but the freely available games being shown in pubs is probably the biggest killer to attendances. Not sure that dropping the price too much will help with that. I know many who have stopped going to games to spend it in the pub.

[buctootim]

The ticket price doesn't help, but the freely available games being shown in pubs is probably the biggest killer to attendances.

 

You often get a better atmosphere in a pub than you do in much of the ground - add that to saving £32 and be able to drink during the game and you have a good reason for many to not go to SMS.

[Bearsy]

i reckon you guise could afford to pay a bit more. Some of you can still afford to go on holidays and live in house. Some of ur kids is wearing clothes and eating 3 meals per day. It makes me sick think bout all the money ur wasting that you could be giving to Cortese.

[Saint Troy]

Sundays low crowd seem to suggest so. This one had all the ingredients of the matches we were assured we'd need an expanded stadium for. £35m invested in the summer, a team full of internationals challenging at the top of the table and attractive opposition. Indeed the various radio pundits were raving about how much they were looking forward to the game. This wasn't the view of saints fans though as we only sold 4,000 tickets to casual fans with the same amount of seats remaining empty.

 

This was one of the games we were assured we'd need a bigger stadium for yet we got a crowd only sightly higher than our championship average. People have said it's too expensive on here in the past so perhaps the cost is now starting to see attendances dip and talk of expanding the stadium which we were told was desperately needed a year or so ago was premature.

 

Maybe if we expanded the stadium ticket costs could go down and more people would go therefore justifying the larger stadium. Whilst 4000 under capacity is not ideal the business model for ticket revenue is the highest amount of tickets x price, if we dropped the price by £1 probably no more people would go and so this would just be a wasted 30k, if we drop them by £10 then 4000 people more may go which would be a reduction in earnings - all made up figures but at theses figure the pricing is pretty accurate for the stadium - not saying I agree with the principle and espescially that its not been correct for poor cup games.

 

What this does show is that quite possibly the attendance does not necessarily mirror the need for expansion alone which is the point I think you are basing your argument on. Im not convinced an expansion at this stage is a great move either but I also don't think we should be basing arguments on statements like "challenging at the top of the table" when the vast majority I would imagine think this is a false position, albeit a very good start to the season indeed.

[stu0x]

The reality (and the flaw in the argument) is, however much Swansea might be the 'hipster's choice' of opponent, for each person that would be attracted to the prospect of playing them, there will be half a dozen casual fans who would far rather watch us play United/Chelsea/etc. In the same way that although fans in the know might say Saints were the best team at OT last season, you can bet we'll draw a lower attendance next weekend than one of the big teams will later in the season.

 

Not that I'd argue that we need a 70k superstadium. But suggesting our attendance vs Swansea would be relatively high in the grand scheme of things is I think unrealistic.

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[trousers]

I had to go around Auntie Irene's for Sunday roast. If it had been a traditional Saturday KO I'd have been there.

[Turkish]

Maybe if we expanded the stadium ticket costs could go down and more people would go therefore justifying the larger stadium. Whilst 4000 under capacity is not ideal the business model for ticket revenue is the highest amount of tickets x price, if we dropped the price by £1 probably no more people would go and so this would just be a wasted 30k, if we drop them by £10 then 4000 people more may go which would be a reduction in earnings - all made up figures but at theses figure the pricing is pretty accurate for the stadium - not saying I agree with the principle and espescially that its not been correct for poor cup games.

 

What this does show is that quite possibly the attendance does not necessarily mirror the need for expansion alone which is the point I think you are basing your argument on. Im not convinced an expansion at this stage is a great move either but I also don't think we should be basing arguments on statements like "challenging at the top of the table" when the vast majority I would imagine think this is a false position, albeit a very good start to the season indeed.

 

Do you think it's a good business model to spend say £18m on expanding a stadium and then reducing prices? Why would this make any sense?

[Joensuu]

Why not just discount the corners and seats obstructed by the goals for the less attractive games. The discount doesn't need to apply to all seats.

[Bearsy]

Do you think it's a good business model to spend say £18m on expanding a stadium and then reducing prices? Why would this make any sense?

 

cos in 20 years time it'll be packed out with glory hunters paying megabucks to watch The Cortese Saints of South London trounce River Plate in World League semi-final.

[Saint_clark]

The ticket price doesn't help, but the freely available games being shown in pubs is probably the biggest killer to attendances. Not sure that dropping the price too much will help with that. I know many who have stopped going to games to spend it in the pub.

 

Very good point, if I live in Southampton I'd probably go to the pub instead.

[Alanh]

A sample of one game on a Sunday in October is too small to base a huge decision like stadium expansion on. We have probably got close to the ceiling for ticket prices but you need to view the attendances across the whole season and then compare that to previous seasons before you can draw any conclusions.

[Turkish]

A sample of one game on a Sunday in October is too small to base a huge decision like stadium expansion on. We have probably got close to the ceiling for ticket prices but you need to view the attendances across the whole season and then compare that to previous seasons before you can draw any conclusions.

 

Well 3 games in our average is lower than last season despite us doing much better.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

It appears to me that the club are taking the approach of trying to protect revenue rather than ensuring they have a full stadium. There are probably business practices where this is justified but the football club exists for the supporters so it doesn't sit too well when they are priced out of going to a game.

 

I can't see it changing, the club had a chance to pack out the stadium for the Bristol City game but chose expensive pricing and look what happened.

[stevegrant]

While I broadly agree that the prices as they are now seem to be right on the line of what people deem acceptable, there were only 830 tickets unsold in home areas for Sunday's game, according to the online ticket system. Swansea only sold 1500, so that left blocks 43 and 44 empty, which accounts for just over 2000 seats, and neither of those two blocks were released to home fans. We sold 5600 matchday tickets to home fans, which is more than were sold for both Sunderland and West Ham, and only 500 less than the Palace game, which was obviously boosted by a full away end.

[terrasaint]

Am I missing something here. Was there not a big hole at the Swansea end of the ground. Surely if they had sold their full allocation the attendance would have been around 30500. Added to that the sunday lunchtime kick off would not be popular amongst some, no great cause for concern really.

[Gemmel]

I think most of us understand that all the stadium expansion talk was way off the mark. As for pricing, yes, we have probably hit out top level. Of course if that ever changes and we get regular sell outs...... (As defined by no seats left in the stadium, not a message on the OS to say the game is sold out, only to see pockets of empty seats around the ground) then the club will have the oppurtunity to increase the price again.

 

I think the point about people watching down the pub is valid and relatively new. It will continue to have an effect and impact attendance figures.

[BadgerBadger]

Why don't we reduce the capacity thus making it more exclusive which in turn will allow them to increase prices

[Bearsy]

Surely if they had sold their full allocation the attendance would have been around 30500.

 

coincidentally the attendance last year which was a Sat game was 30,501. Maybe it was just all the pious swans gone to Church.

[Mowgli]

You guys have short memories. The Dell rarely sold out just before we moved. Capacity of 15,500 and most attendances were a few hundred short of that, at least. If there is a suggestion of a sell out a lot of people simply won't bother trying to get a ticket. But they would if they knew there were 40,000+ available.

 

Regular attendances in excess of 30k would suggest a 40k stadium would attract regular crowds of 38k. Personally I think the debate is premature. Wait till we get to Champions League.

[CB Fry]

Do you think it's a good business model to spend say £18m on expanding a stadium and then reducing prices? Why would this make any sense?

 

Our catchment area is gigantic.

 

Something about what they do in Germany.

 

Think about the hotdogs we'd sell.

 

Open your mind to people with vision.

[stevegrant]

You guys have short memories. The Dell rarely sold out just before we moved. Capacity of 15,500 and most attendances were a few hundred short of that, at least.

Not true. Capacity at the Dell once it became all-seated was 15,200, with averages in the last 3 seasons at 15,136, 15,132 and 15,140. The home stands were always sold out - I know that because my dad always struggled to get a ticket if he made a relatively late decision that he wanted to go.

[Patrick Bateman]

Thing is I don't think Sunday's game was that expensive - £32 a ticket I think? Will be interesting to see how many get sold for the Man City game at top whack.

 

I think the club have realised tickets aren't selling as well as expected, hence the announcement of the family ticket offers for the Fulham game.

 

I do think it's quite a lot, but to be honest, what isn't these days?

 

You want two tickets to a good show in the West End ... £220+

Two tickets to something at the Mayflower ... £100ish

Two cinema tickets cost me in excess of £20

Quick meal out for two in our local Italian cost me over £100

 

That doesn't include train, petrol, food, drink etc etc etc. I paid £120 for two for Palace (inc. some food, drink, travel), £200 for two for Swansea (inc. food, drink, petrol) and Man Utd will cost about £400.

 

We've got a trip up the Shard (a present) to do. Train to London (although my season makes it free for me) and the inevitable food and drink will no doubt cost loads.

 

Everything is bloody expensive.

So my point is that I think people really are picking and choosing more than ever now. 2 matches a month, or 1 match and a meal out etc.

[Whitey Grandad]

Well 3 games in our average is lower than last season despite us doing much better.

 

First was still in holiday season. Next was Sunday 4:00 on telly. Swansea was Sunday at silly time.

 

And the price is excessive.

[stevegrant]

I wonder whether the difference between the prices we charge for Category A games and those we charge for Category C games isn't great enough to encourage people to attend the lesser games.

 

While in theory everyone goes to watch Saints, not the opposition, there is a much different feel to the whole thing when you're going to Saints against Man United compared to Saints against Norwich, and at £32 compared to £40 for the top games, is £8 enough of a discount to watch what should be a much poorer game in terms of quality?

 

Arguably the club could still sell out games against the top teams if they charged £45, while a reduction for the lesser games would give a better chance of a sell-out for those games as well.

[Colinjb]

First was still in holiday season. Next was Sunday 4:00 on telly. Swansea was Sunday at silly time.

 

And the price is excessive.

 

Let's see how we do with Fulham as a 3pm Saturday kick off before we make any judgements.

[stevegrant]

Let's see how we do with Fulham as a 3pm Saturday kick off before we make any judgements.

Considering it's a 5:30 kickoff, probably not that well.

[Colinjb]

Considering it's a 5:30 kickoff, probably not that well.

 

Oh f**k me!

 

I do miss Saturday 3pm's.....

[Golden Balls]

As part of my job I'm in pubs and bars all day every day and they're telling me that more and more people are coming in to watch games every week.

 

I think more people are getting used to the idea of watching it at a pub instead and have seen the financial benefit. Even the really shiiit places are bursting with custom just because they can watch Saints there.

[Turkish]

Am I missing something here. Was there not a big hole at the Swansea end of the ground. Surely if they had sold their full allocation the attendance would have been around 30500. Added to that the sunday lunchtime kick off would not be popular amongst some, no great cause for concern really.

 

I don't buy this Sunday lunch time excuse. This is the premier league, 3pm Saturday kick offs every week are a thing of the past. Are attendances going to go down if we achieve our stated aims of European football?

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't buy this Sunday lunch time excuse. This is the premier league, 3pm Saturday kick offs every week are a thing of the past. Are attendances going to go down if we achieve our stated aims of European football?

 

This is the future. The bulk of the money comes from TV and all else is secondary.

[Saint_Tony]

For me it's the cost. Went to the West Ham game, £43.50 ticket and £18 on the train. Add in a few beers and food and you're looking at £100+. The whole matchday experience has essentially become a luxury item. I can't see myself going to more than another 2 games this season. Sadly, the pub and online streaming are more financially viable options

[Colinjb]

This is the future. The bulk of the money comes from TV and all else is secondary.

 

In the Premier League at least.

 

Assume we sell 30,000 tickets at 35 pounds each per game (league only). That's approx £20,000,000 pounds, not a small amount of money but dwarfed by the TV income per season.

 

Even at £50 per ticket you will see an annual figure of £28.5 mil. TV income this year is, what? £70-90 million? So all in ticket income accounts for less then 20% of income before tax.

 

Merchandising sales are also minimal, 10,000 shirt sales with a profit of £40 on each = £400,000. A very small percentage. As we are close to stadium capacity (if not reaching it) even with the team doing well then I would expect prices to keep rising, the worst that can happen for the club's accountants is that the price increase would offset any attendance dip.

 

It is nice to get fans through the door but it is not the core revenue and therefore not the core priority.

[Saint_clark]

In the Premier League at least.

 

Assume we sell 30,000 tickets at 35 pounds each per game (league only). That's approx £20,000,000 pounds, not a small amount of money but dwarfed by the TV income per season.

 

Even at £50 per ticket you will see an annual figure of £28.5 mil. TV income this year is, what? £70-90 million? So all in ticket income accounts for less then 20% of income before tax.

 

Merchandising sales are also minimal, 10,000 shirt sales with a profit of £40 on each = £400,000. A very small percentage. As we are close to stadium capacity (if not reaching it) even with the team doing well then I would expect prices to keep rising, the worst that can happen for the club's accountants is that the price increase would offset any attendance dip.

 

It is nice to get fans through the door but it is not the core revenue and therefore not the core priority.

 

That's the thing though, this club is all about maximizing revenue in order to be as self sustaining as possible. So that £20,000,000 is a huge amount.

[Colinjb]

That's the thing though, this club is all about maximizing revenue in order to be as self sustaining as possible. So that £20,000,000 is a huge amount.

 

But not the core priority, premier league status and it's riches is the core priority. As such if the ticket income can be kept stable then so be it. As I said an attendance drop could be offset by a price increase. No, the fans wouldn't be happy but it would maximise the revenue, especially if the team did well then people would be crawling over themselves to fill in the spare capacity.

 

Does anyone know what kind of advertising revenue the club brings in?

Edited 9 October, 2013 by Colinjb

[Turkish]

Oh f**k me!

 

I do miss Saturday 3pm's.....

 

You better get used to them, if we make it into Europe 3pm Saturday kick offs will be as regular as striped shirts.

[Colinjb]

You better get used to them, if we make it into Europe 3pm Saturday kick offs will be as regular as striped shirts.

 

Yep. Curse my traditional mindset!

[Turkish]

This is the future. The bulk of the money comes from TV and all else is secondary.

 

So why are the club charging £35 a game? Surely if the revenue didn't matter then they'd let people on for a tenner.

[Turkish]

Yep. Curse my traditional mindset!

 

Set up a Facebook group to protest but go anyway.

[Colinjb]

Set up a Facebook group to protest but go anyway.

 

Troll someone who gives a f**k Turkish.

[Sour Mash]

This is the future. The bulk of the money comes from TV and all else is secondary.

 

In the Premier League at least.

 

Assume we sell 30,000 tickets at 35 pounds each per game (league only). That's approx £20,000,000 pounds, not a small amount of money but dwarfed by the TV income per season.

 

Even at £50 per ticket you will see an annual figure of £28.5 mil. TV income this year is, what? £70-90 million? So all in ticket income accounts for less then 20% of income before tax.

 

Merchandising sales are also minimal, 10,000 shirt sales with a profit of £40 on each = £400,000. A very small percentage. As we are close to stadium capacity (if not reaching it) even with the team doing well then I would expect prices to keep rising, the worst that can happen for the club's accountants is that the price increase would offset any attendance dip.

 

It is nice to get fans through the door but it is not the core revenue and therefore not the core priority.

I'm not sure what your point is? That gate receipts no longer matter? 20-25% of income is still a very significant amount for any club.

[Colinjb]

I'm not sure what your point is? That gate receipts no longer matter? 20-25% of income is still a very significant amount for any club.

 

My point isn't that they do not matter, but they are not the be all and end all as far as the club is concerned. As I clearly stated:

 

It is nice to get fans through the door but it is not the core revenue and therefore not the core priority.

Edited 9 October, 2013 by Colinjb

[Sour Mash]

My point isn't that they do not matter, but they are not the be all and end all as far as the club is concerned. As I clearly stated:

What does "core priority" mean? What relevance does being core priority or not make in wanting to maximise gate revenue? Either it's important or not, your point doesn't make sense. Who has said they are the be all and end all?

[Colinjb]

What does "core priority" mean? What relevance does being core priority or not make in wanting to maximise gate revenue? Either it's important or not, your point doesn't make sense. Who has said they are the be all and end all?

 

As a business your main source of income (in the case of Saints, it's now the Premier League TV money) will be the key area of focus. As such maintaining it will be the priority - The 'core,' the main, the most important priority. It's just common sense.

 

The other sources of income will still be relevant but not take the same amount of importance. You are trying to make the argument too black and white, i've not at any point said that TV money is the be all and end all or that the gate receipts are irrelevant, the closest that we have seen to that is Whitley Grandad saying that they would be 'Irrelevant.' I've just pointed out that they will not be the absolute point of importance to the club that they would be to many fans.

Edited 9 October, 2013 by Colinjb

[warsash saint]

I wonder whether the difference between the prices we charge for Category A games and those we charge for Category C games isn't great enough to encourage people to attend the lesser games.

 

While in theory everyone goes to watch Saints, not the opposition, there is a much different feel to the whole thing when you're going to Saints against Man United compared to Saints against Norwich, and at £32 compared to £40 for the top games, is £8 enough of a discount to watch what should be a much poorer game in terms of quality?

 

Arguably the club could still sell out games against the top teams if they charged £45, while a reduction for the lesser games would give a better chance of a sell-out for those games as well.

 

The difference between Cat A & Cat C games works for me. I certainly cant afford to pay for myself & my nipper in the family section for a Cat A game - £37 + £10 for under an under 11

 

Cat C games works out £30 + nipper goes free making a large difference of £17.

 

I was a season ticket for years but I have been priced out of going every week & now sadly my son & I only make a handful of games a season now

[Saint Troy]

Do you think it's a good business model to spend say £18m on expanding a stadium and then reducing prices? Why would this make any sense?

 

I think my post covers that im not convinced its a good idea but then I don't run the club. Maybe an increase in stadium size, full stadium and European football is exactly he point at which the club gets sold on? maybe not? merely commenting on the assertion that a not sold out stadium = no point in increasing capacity which is not always the case in my view

[holepuncture]

Do you think it's a good business model to spend say £18m on expanding a stadium and then reducing prices? Why would this make any sense?

 

So why are the club charging £35 a game? Surely if the revenue didn't matter then they'd let people on for a tenner.

 

As a sooper sales person I guess you know the answer to this, reduce your price/margin and you have to increase volume significantly just to stand still.

 

Reduce SMS prices by 20pc and you will need a 50-60k stadium to achieve the same GP as you will in the current set up. Yes the matchday revenue will increase but so will your overheads, it isnt just about volume and the trajectory isnt straight.

 

The Bristol cup game is good example, I suspect the commercial bods couldnt give a sh*t about the atmosphere/empty stands etc, as they would have maximised their margin against their costs. Drop the tickets, open up another stand etc to achieve better support, great.. sell John Boy Saint and the like a few pastys at HT, in exhange for watching your overheads spiral against a diminished margin, only for them to moan about you on a mongboard later on.

 

Sorry gents, we supporters are little more than a nuisance these days!

[Minty]

No business will consider any revenue to be 'secondary'... it's all revenue, full stop, and is all part of the bottom line. Any business that considers any part of its income to be secondary, will fail. Attendance is important, but not as important as the overall income from matchday sales. They will have analysed the figures to death to work out an optimum ticket price, to gain maximum revenue from ticket sales AND other matchday income...

 

Supporters clearly aren't a nuisance... but there's a commercial balance that the club will look to strike, to maximise income without alienating the people who generate that income.

[Whitey Grandad]

So why are the club charging £35 a game? Surely if the revenue didn't matter then they'd let people on for a tenner.

 

Secondary means not as important as the main source, not insignificant.

 

I'm not sure what your point is? That gate receipts no longer matter? 20-25% of income is still a very significant amount for any club.

 

They still matter but if the great god of TV says kick-off on Sunday at 10 o'clock in the evening then the clubs would still say 'yes sir, three bags full sir'. The prices are not set to give the fans a good day out at a reasonable price, they are to maximise income. Whether they are at that level is open to debate but they may be happier with a stadium 80% full at high prices than a sell-out at something lower.