Fox - "accident waiting to happen"

[david in sweden]

Nope, if anything he was cheered a little where I sit. Fox wasn't booed either (that I could hear), but the sarcastic cheering was a bit much QUOTE.

 

 

 

...... and that wasn't much of an encouragement though - was it, Colin?

 

Call it what you like....the "occasional players " who don't get on very often ; (Guly, Fox, Jos) all need some extra support surely?.

[Colinjb]

Nope, if anything he was cheered a little where I sit. Fox wasn't booed either (that I could hear), but the sarcastic cheering was a bit much QUOTE.

 

 

 

...... and that wasn't much of an encouragement though - was it, Colin?

 

Call it what you like....the "occasional players " who don't get on very often ; (Guly, Fox, Jos) all need some extra support surely?.

 

Being a pedant mate, it wasn't booing. It also wasn't from the start, he was given a chance and was the worst player on the pitch. He was a little exposed at times but there were occasions when he looked terrible (bottling going in for challenges) and at best was utterly ordinary, contributing nothing other then a safe pass and simply another body on the field.

 

Anything negative from the fans was born of frustration rather then contempt. I would never condone it yet I can understand it.

Edited 7 October, 2013 by Colinjb

[Dig Dig]

same difference surely. If someone's having a bad time, they don't play better if they don't get some encouragement.

 

Well then you're talking about something which is more than just about Fox. You will hear a groan after almost any mis-placed pass or wrong decision made by any player.

 

St Mary's in general has a lot of "experts" in stands who spent all their time moaning and complaining about something and someone.

[Sour Mash]

 

Being a pedant mate, it wasn't booing. It also wasn't from the start, he was given a chance and was the worst player on the pitch. He was a little exposed at times but there were occasions when he looked terrible (bottling going in for challenges) and at best was utterly ordinary, contributing nothing other then a safe pass and simply another body on the field.

 

Anything negative from the fans was born of frustration rather then contempt. I would never condone it yet I can understand it.

Plenty of people having a go at him. What does it achieve? What's the point of it?

[Colinjb]

Plenty of people having a go at him. What does it achieve? What's the point of it?

 

It achieves nothing. Yet people react emotionally to things at football matches, we don't just sit there passively and stoically like MLG do we!?

 

If a player is seen to be underwhelming and not pulling his weight they will get a reaction. It's telling that it happened even though we won, he certainly didn't get the same reaction in the Manchester City game last year.

[stevegrant]

Some excellent use of the quote function here, well done everybody...

[Lazlo78]

Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us.

 

The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough.

 

Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there.

 

I can only agree with this. Fox, Guly and others were good players for us in a unique transformation period of SFC. Even those who think he is not an adequate backup in the PL should support him - what has he done to deserve getting booed at? Will it improve his game when he acts as backup for Shaw?

[Professor]

Was pleased to see that Danny Fox got some deserved credit in the press today. The abusers really need to think about what they are doing, if thinking is within their mental capacity. Up against an exceptionally speedy winger in Dyer, widely described by the media as Swansea's best player, Fox came into the game with few games behind him so not surprisingly it took time for him to settle, but he did better as the game went on and deserves his share of the praise for a back four and GK keeping another clean sheet. A squad player such as Danny Fox needs encouragement from the crowd, not sarcasm and those responsible for the latter should ask whether they really care about SFC.

[Sour Mash]

If a player is seen to be underwhelming and not pulling his weight they will get a reaction. It's telling that it happened even though we won, he certainly didn't get the same reaction in the Manchester City game last year.

You think Fox wouldn't play better if he could?

[Colinjb]

You think Fox wouldn't play better if he could?

 

If it was that simple I would be in the England team!!! In my opinion he didn't play to his best yesterday anyway, it could have been match rustiness but he shirked a few challenges in the first half and played utterly within himself as far as distribution was concerned. He thankfully grew into things and with JWP providing cover he looked far more in place.

 

People were frustrated with a player who is out of his depth. On another day it could have cost us the game, it didn't. As I said, the reaction to him achieves nothing but the crowd is occupied by 30,000+ emotional human beings who will express frustration with an obvious weakness.

 

Are we the only club that seems to pick on the weak link in the side?

Edited 7 October, 2013 by Colinjb

[Glasgow_Saint]

Booing your own players = pathetic

[Dig Dig]

You think Fox wouldn't play better if he could?

 

You don't seem too bothered about the stick which Ramirez gets as another example.

 

Is he choosing not to play well?

[Sour Mash]

You don't seem too bothered about the stick which Ramirez gets as another example.

 

Is he choosing not to play well?

I'd disagree with any Saints player getting stick at a game, be that Fox, Guly, Ramirez etc.

[solentstars]

Was pleased to see that Danny Fox got some deserved credit in the press today. The abusers really need to think about what they are doing, if thinking is within their mental capacity. Up against an exceptionally speedy winger in Dyer, widely described by the media as Swansea's best player, Fox came into the game with few games behind him so not surprisingly it took time for him to settle, but he did better as the game went on and deserves his share of the praise for a back four and GK keeping another clean sheet. A squad player such as Danny Fox needs encouragement from the crowd, not sarcasm and those responsible for the latter should ask whether they really care about SFC.

agree and when the tactical changes from ponch the defensive side of the left of mid field made the side more solid and gave more cover .

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[solentstars]

Booing your own players = pathetic

 

100% agree

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Colinjb]

agree and when the tactical changes from ponch the defensive side of the left of mid field made the side more solid and gave more cover .

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

At the expense of our attacking threat. Thankfully we had done what we needed by that point.

[Sour Mash]

If it was that simple I would be in the England team!!! In my opinion he didn't play to his best yesterday anyway, it could have been match rustiness but he shirked a few challenges in the first half and played utterly within himself as far as distribution was concerned.

 

People were frustrated with a player who is out of his depth. On another day it could have cost us the game, it didn't. As I said, the reaction to him achieves nothing but the crowd is occupied by 30,000+ emotional human beings who will express frustration with an obvious weakness.

 

Are we the only club that seems to pick on the weak link in the side?

Plenty of Saints fans are able to "control their emotions" and not get on the back of their own players, I'm sure the rest could do the same if they really wanted to.

[Viking Warrior]

I think the only players not to come in for critiscm this season are Boruc, shaw Spideman and Lovren

 

 

How long before they are criticised ?

[Colinjb]

Plenty of Saints fans are able to "control their emotions" and not get on the back of their own players, I'm sure the rest could do the same if they really wanted to.

 

Come on Sour Mash, you must know that not all human beings are the same. Some (i'm guessing you are part of the group i'm in) can control that and keep any frustrations within, others will vocalise them, others will go nuts over it, and others will remain in a zen like state of nirvana.

 

We could be getting into quite deep discussions over human nature and conditioning now, suffice to say though we do fundamentally both agree that negatively jeering your own player is counter productive!

[Wes Tender]

Was pleased to see that Danny Fox got some deserved credit in the press today. The abusers really need to think about what they are doing, if thinking is within their mental capacity. Up against an exceptionally speedy winger in Dyer, widely described by the media as Swansea's best player, Fox came into the game with few games behind him so not surprisingly it took time for him to settle, but he did better as the game went on and deserves his share of the praise for a back four and GK keeping another clean sheet. A squad player such as Danny Fox needs encouragement from the crowd, not sarcasm and those responsible for the latter should ask whether they really care about SFC.

 

That must have been praise from other sources than the one that labelled him an accident waiting to happen then. And isn't it feasible that any who criticise him do so within their mental capacity, just as those who praise him do? For some reason you appear to believe that those who accept mediocrity are somehow mentally brighter than those who don't.

 

I thought that Michu was their best player, although Dyer can't be far behind.Fox got better later in the game, notably when Ward-Prowse came on to strengthen that wing. Praise for the back four should go mostly to Boruc and the other three defenders, who had their tasks made much more difficult by the weaknesses of their colleague.

 

And why cannot it be argued that those who are critical of a weak link in the team care for the team more than those who believe that he is not a liability?

[Daren W]

In the entire history of footballer no player has ever gone "You know, they're right, I am crap. I need to pull my finger out and try harder... Have that opposition team.."

Danny Fox did a job in the Championship, he may not be up to the standard we need right now but I'll always be grateful for the work he's done for this club...

[channonball]

Am I alone in thinking he was crap in the Championship? He never cuts out crosses and his distribution has always been **** poor.

[TopGun]

The fact remains that Fox is our back up LB currently. So people better get used to it rather than having a pop at him.

[channonball]

Am I alone in thinking he was crap in the Championship? He never cuts out crosses and his distribution has always been **** poor.

[ant]

Fully agree with Turkish's summary.

 

While Fox did look out of place in the squad yesterday (quite literally in terms of positional sense), I can only echo the sentiment that getting on one of our own player's backs isn't likely to fix that. In terms of his distribution he's simply not as cultured as the rest of our defence, being far more used to hitting it towards the corner flag or attempting cross-field Hollywood balls.

 

That said his team mates often didn't help when Fox tried to play it short; twice in quick succession he played it along the sideline towards JWP who stood statically waiting for it to arrive, only for a Swansea player to nip in and steal possession both times. Following that there were ironic jeers every time Danny managed to complete a 5 yard pass, which to my mind is about as constructive as booing. Big difference between targeting an individual and, for argument's sake, the collective groan that resonates as an attack breaks down.

[Son of Bob]

Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us.

 

The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough.

 

Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there.

 

Top post - Couldn't agree more. Some of our fans are complete morons with their attitude towards Fox.

[aintforever]

One moment summed it up perfectly yesterday. Fox gave the ball away and was absolutely slaughtered by the mongs in the Kingsland, then seconds later Ward-Prose did the exact same thing and no-one said a word.

[Whitey Grandad]

The players are usually too busy concentrating on the game to hear the crowd. If not then they should be.

[Lazlo78]

Am I alone in thinking he was crap in the Championship? He never cuts out crosses and his distribution has always been **** poor.

 

Guys in post #122 og #124 agree with you!

Edited 7 October, 2013 by Lazlo78

[Barry the Badger]

The players are usually too busy concentrating on the game to hear the crowd. If not then they should be.

 

He will have noticed a few thousand people ironically cheering a pass.

[Whitey Grandad]

He will have noticed a few thousand people ironically cheering a pass.

 

I've asked players about this. They said they were too focused to notice.

[sfc4prem]

One moment summed it up perfectly yesterday. Fox gave the ball away and was absolutely slaughtered by the mongs in the Kingsland, then seconds later Ward-Prose did the exact same thing and no-one said a word.

 

So true. The bias against one of our own is pretty embarrassing.

[Turkish]

So true. The bias against one of our own is pretty embarrassing.

 

it was the same with Guly last season and the second half of the championship season. He'd give the ball away and be lamblasted for it, then one of our golden boys would do the same thing and be given a round of applause for a great effort or good idea. I'd hate to see what our fans would be like these days if we were crap or struggling. Imagine what they'd be like if we were watching some of the crap that was served up in the mid 90s when we were generally awful until around March time.

[Graffito]

One moment summed it up perfectly yesterday. Fox gave the ball away and was absolutely slaughtered by the mongs in the Kingsland, then seconds later Ward-Prose did the exact same thing and no-one said a word.

 

I would add that Ward Prowse not showing for the pass contributed to Fox giving the ball away. He had no other passing options. He coud have tried to retain possession but he didn't have enough confidence on the ball.

[Graffito]

A few comments on Fox.

 

He was rusty.

 

He lacked confidence. Hardly surprising given the "support" he gets.

 

He stays tight to the two CB (has always done so) because he lacks pace. The coaching staff see this and must condone it.

 

His ability to put in a good cross is largely redundant because PL sides target him so that he's penned back.

[ringwood]

Nope your not alone, as soon as I heard he was in the team I could tell the Swansea game plan, not PL standard not sure he was CC standard either, ball watching and out of position far too often and never shows the guy to go outside near always allows them to cut in. Benali wasnt a great full back and yes got his share of bookings but he had pace and would put it about a bit so the opposotion was wary of him.

 

Fox is scotlands left back which goes to show how far behind Scotland is in world football, if Fox could get postional play into his head which I'm sure is what Jose was trying to tell him he could do a job as a stand in at a reasonable standard but currently as last season and the year before he ball watches and gets well out of the left-back berth far to often.

 

How much of the fans shouting at Fox was actually telling him to get in postion or get tighter raqther than backing off? I heard no boo's but did here plenty of opinion.

[Turkish]

Ironically our first goal came about due in part to an error by Swanseas left back. Not tracking Lallanas run.

 

ALso no one has mentioned Fontes underhit backpass which almost led to a penalty and cost Lovern a booking, if that had been Fox people would have been in meltdown.

Edited 7 October, 2013 by Turkish

[Giordano]

Agree with Turkish. And you wonder why pro players sometimes privately consider supporters with contempt. One minute you are working your nuts off in L1 and CCC and are the bees knee's, the next you trying to play against World Cup +International players and are a hopeless tosser who should be made unemployed. Fox and Guly - the slagging off just shows, sadly, how contemptible some of our "supporters" actually are. Mind you, all supporters are fickle so its not just Saints fans. I think in response to what he also said about what would these guys have done in the 90's when we only started playing in March - well i think that we were so rubbish everyone thought it was quite a laugh ( i think it took until about March for most the squad to sober up enough to play a bit - christmas celebrations kind of lasted from late october to mid february and then we would wake up and go- oh, better win a few games or we are doomed...Nowadays we got people who believe we are big time now so we can act like complete planks towards some squad members who occasionally get picked. Shameful really, but i put it down to ignorance and the generally low levels of self-esteem in the barracking supporters.

Edited 7 October, 2013 by Giordano

[saint1977]

A few comments on Fox.

 

He was rusty.

 

He lacked confidence. Hardly surprising given the "support" he gets.

 

He stays tight to the two CB (has always done so) because he lacks pace. The coaching staff see this and must condone it.

 

His ability to put in a good cross is largely redundant because PL sides target him so that he's penned back.

 

Sensible summary and good posts from Turkish and elsewhere. He's clearly out of his depth at this level but to answer Ringwood's questions some fans were shouting about position but the ironic cheers and jeers from the Kingsland were no form of encouragement whatsoever and right out of order. We are 4th in the Premier League FFS! Quite why some fans feel the need to have scapegoats is beyond me and it frustrated me yesterday although a good win did take the sting out of the idiots actions. Some of the other posts about Guly, Sharp and other players that played key roles in our promotion season, some of my happiest as a Saints fan, have been out of order on here this season.

[SaintBobby]

He was pretty dreadful overall.

 

I didn't boo him, but had my head in my hands a number of times.

 

I'm grateful for his contribution to date, as I am with others - Hammond, Barnard etc - but he shouldn't be in the first XI or even close to it really.

 

It's a brutal life being a footballer I guess, but theya re well paid for it, even if they can't cut it at the top level.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think the only players not to come in for critiscm this season are Boruc, shaw Spideman and Lovren

 

 

How long before they are criticised ?

 

A lot of our experts wanted Boruc out last season.

 

When a side come through the division very quickly, there are going to be players that are around the squad who aren't good enough for the new level. Coming up so quickly means that the squad will look slightly lopsided as the gap between Championship and Premiership means you need to focus on the starting 11. To build a squad takes time. All you can ask is when called upon the back up players do the best they can, and "get away with it".

 

Despite what some people think, Fox has done his best this season and just about got away with it. Long term we're going to need to strengthen in a lot of back up positions, left back being one of them. But, why on earth do people think it's acceptable to get on a players back is beyond me. It also seems very selective, with others mistakes overlooked yet Fox's highlighted. It was obvious from the start that both full backs were badly exposed yesterday. However Clyne got off relatively scot free because Routledge was pretty average compared to Dyer, and Clyne also has the pace to get back in. Second half when W-P came on to give Fox some support, the right side was tightened up.

 

Fox is no worse a player than FB was, it's just that the standard is a lot better now.

 

Cheering sarcastically when a pass is made is just embarrassing. So is getting on the back of a reserve player who is coming in to fill a gap and doing his best. Fox doesn't pick the team, but these experts cant boo the bloke who does cause that'll really make them look stupid. If Fox turned round to MP and said "don't play me, I'm not good enough", this place would be in meltdown.

[alpine_saint]

FFS, this bloke has feelings. Look at the photos of the childrens ward visit last Xmas, he was one of the players most into it.

 

I would bet he gives 100% every time he steps out onto the field, what more can he do ? If he is playing at a level above what he is capable of, the fault lies with the club, not him.

 

The abuse has to stop.

[Dig Dig]

FFS, this bloke has feelings. Look at the photos of the childrens ward visit last Xmas, he was one of the players most into it.

 

I would bet he gives 100% every time he steps out onto the field, what more can he do ? If he is playing at a level above what he is capable of, the fault lies with the club, not him.

 

The abuse has to stop.

 

He really doesn't.

 

He wouldn't have even needed to have a shower after yesterdays game

[VectisSaint]

Fox is scotlands left back which goes to show how far behind Scotland is in world football

No he isn't. WGS did not select him in his squad of 29 to play England. His last appearance for Scotland was a year ago this coming weekend.

[hypochondriac]

For good easy sake you guys this abuse has to stop!!!!

[badgerx16]

Danny Fox is not, nor will he ever be, in my opinion, a player of Premier League standard. However, he IS a Southampton player, and if the manager decides to play him, we must respect that decision, ( in all probability the coaching staff are perfectly aware of DF's limitations ). The fault yesterday was that however we were set up, there wasn't effective cover in front of him and Swansea exploited that. As things stand DF is our second choice left back; booing or sarcastic cheers won't help.

[Toon Saint]

FFS, this bloke has feelings. Look at the photos of the childrens ward visit last Xmas, he was one of the players most into it.

 

The abuse has to stop.

 

So was Jimmy Saville, but look at all the abuse he still gets!

 

Sorry.

Edited 7 October, 2013 by Toon Saint

[Bearsy]

Why did Danny Fox get sacked from his teaching job? Cos he couldn't do marking.

Why do opponents call Danny Fox "Hawking"? Cos of infinite space and time.

Why did Danny Fox's sextape fail to sell? Cos he didn't know any positions.

Why is Danny Fox like egg? Cos he always gets beaten.

Why is Danny Fox like eunuch? Cos he has no tackle.

Why did Danny Fox join picket line outside Woolworths? Cos he didn't want to close down.

 

pls pls pls can everyone stop making danny fox jokes.

[Depressed of Shirley]

Guly is now a (somewhat ironic) crowd favourite, but to the untrained ear it sounds just like a lot of support - can't say the same for Fox - and you can also see why.

 

He isn't, the abuse he got at the Bristol City game was disgusting.

[Depressed of Shirley]

I know what I saw. Clyne's positioning was absolutely identical, i.e. sit back in line with the two centre-backs, and don't go wider than the 18-yard box. Clyne was barely tested as Routledge played much more centrally than usual and Lallana was much better than Davis at providing cover.

 

The number of times Fox was left exposed on that side against Dyer and Rangel together was embarrassing - while Pochettino should rightly get praise for the Osvaldo/JWP substitution that wrestled control back from Swansea in the second half, he really should have switched the players already on the pitch around before half-time to give Fox a bit of help. The reason every Swansea attack came down that flank was because we let them do it.

 

I agree totally, Steve, I think our tactics were that we would defend crosses into the box better than letting Swansea play through the middle. And judging by the result it worked!