Dig Dig Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sorry, but IMO he does. I won't say anymore, Turkish said it all for me. Players don't get on the back of their team mates if they think they are doing the best they can do. He has limitations but that to say that he played to the best of his ability today and gave 100% is way off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Perhaps Danny should get on Twitter and banter with the fans or adopt a Prutton style clapping regime? If it wasn't him it would be someone else. Ramirez must be delighted every time Fox plays. He isn't as good as Luke Shaw, his positional play is poor but that is a minor crime in comparison to heckling your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 I hear a lot of people getting frustrated with Fox and the fact he makes the same mistake time after time - but I didn't hear anyone booing him near me - maybe the odd groan and a lot of complaining to friends, family and neighbours about his mistakes but that was it. Some of the people on hear really need to get off their high horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Perhaps Danny should get on Twitter and banter with the fans or adopt a Prutton style clapping regime? If it wasn't him it would be someone else. Ramirez must be delighted every time Fox plays. He isn't as good as Luke Shaw, his positional play is poor but that is a minor crime in comparison to heckling your own. he was nothing but utterly terrible today from the off. even his own team mates started to pipe up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 didn't think he was especially poor today, his performance was entirely up to his usual standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 The lack of support for Fox was an absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 The lack of support for Fox was an absolute joke. Didn't hear any boos or anything OTT around me. Just people groaning which happens most times anyone loses the ball and a few people shouting instructions to him. Some of which he'd do well to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. Sadly you are mistaken. He was equally poor in the Championship, it's just that he got way with more there. Why do footballers who earn very good money deserve respect for playing poorly. Respect as a person yes, I can agree with that, however respect as football player no. I am afraid he is blatantly not good enough and never has been - even in the Championship.... As a human being - I don't know him but very happy to give him every respect for that.......As footballer - The Guardian are correct - it has nothing to do with respect for a person as a human being. The more worrying aspect of the Danny Fox debate for me is that MP continues to play him - this is baffling almost to the point of bewilderment and whist discussing this topic the same question might be asked of the decision to bring Gully on today instead of Cork. The previous last time i saw Gully play was against Bristol City and was quite poor against them and one would have to venture that he probably hasn't had a good game for about two seasons. He is quite similar to Fox in many ways in that he is very slow of thought and suffers from ball watching. Anyway again lots of respect as a person but none for taking the money and basically being largely carp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 It would have been nice to see him get some cover....he was run ragged. Obviously Swansea had worked out that he was a weak link. I would be interested to understand why he was picked in front of Chambers. As soon as Ward Prowse came on, things improved for him. Would he be better playing in midfield? Yes - For Eastleigh perhaps! - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sadly you are mistaken. He was equally poor in the Championship, it's just that he got way with more there. Why do footballers who earn very good money deserve respect for playing poorly. Respect as a person yes, I can agree with that, however respect as football player no. I am afraid he is blatantly not good enough and never has been - even in the Championship.... As a human being - I don't know him but very happy to give him every respect for that.......As footballer - The Guardian are correct - it has nothing to do with respect for a person as a human being. The more worrying aspect of the Danny Fox debate for me is that MP continues to play him - this is baffling almost to the point of bewilderment and whist discussing this topic the same question might be asked of the decision to bring Gully on today instead of Cork. The previous last time i saw Gully play was against Bristol City and was quite poor against them and one would have to venture that he probably hasn't had a good game for about two seasons. He is quite similar to Fox in many ways in that he is very slow of thought and suffers from ball watching. Anyway again lots of respect as a person but none for taking the money and basically being largely carp. 14 assists from left back says he wasn't and was an effective player for us at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. Good summary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 14 assists from left back says he wasn't and was an effective player for us at that level. Fox was a much better attacking threat in the championship. He wasn't a much better defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 today he and the team was saved by the substitution. Great that our young JWP was the rescuer, smart tactical move from MP, Dyer 's threat was greatly reduced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Clearly Pochettino rates him otherwise he would not play him. Dyer gave him a hard time and he was done several times for pace. But he got a few important tackles in and delivered some good crosses. But hey, if you don't like him you will only see the bad side of him. Personally I think he is is ok as back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. Totally agree. I can understand slagging players off for poor attitude but not for trying and not being good enough. People seem to expect him to tel MP not to pick him rather than wear the shirt with pride and try - even if at times lacking. He did seem to stay off Dyer a lot, which isn't Fox's natural game - if anything previously seemed to rush in and commit. I wonder if he was told to stay off and let him run as Dyer is most dangerous beating a player for speed rather than doing anything clever with the ball. It worried me at the game but no, in relaxed hindsight, although Dyer ran with the ball a lot did he create as many chances as he would have done with a LB coming out to meet him? Not defending his ability as clearly no Ashley Cole but not deserving of negative groans etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sadly you are mistaken. He was equally poor in the Championship, it's just that he got way with more there. Why do footballers who earn very good money deserve respect for playing poorly. Respect as a person yes, I can agree with that, however respect as football player no. I am afraid he is blatantly not good enough and never has been - even in the Championship.... As a human being - I don't know him but very happy to give him every respect for that.......As footballer - The Guardian are correct - it has nothing to do with respect for a person as a human being. The more worrying aspect of the Danny Fox debate for me is that MP continues to play him - this is baffling almost to the point of bewilderment and whist discussing this topic the same question might be asked of the decision to bring Gully on today instead of Cork. The previous last time i saw Gully play was against Bristol City and was quite poor against them and one would have to venture that he probably hasn't had a good game for about two seasons. He is quite similar to Fox in many ways in that he is very slow of thought and suffers from ball watching. Anyway again lots of respect as a person but none for taking the money and basically being largely carp. Totally agree. He was poor defensively in the Championship but got away with it due to the lower standard of players he was up against. Burnley fans told us on this very forum that whilst good going forward his defending was suspect. Let's not try to rewrite history and paint him as a hero in the promotion winning side when in reality he was fair or adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouldy Coat Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Fox is woeful and decided to tuck in to the center of defence on many occasions leaving Davis to pick up Dyer....shirking responsibility as he knew he would get skinned every time. His passing, positional play, pace all poor. Get him out the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Well having just watched MOTD2, I think it's fair to say that we can kiss goodbye to any hopes of getting near the European spots, or even a top half finish, if it becomes necessary for Fox to have a prolonged run in the first team. Every single chance that Swansea created came about as a result of him standing off, putting no pressure on the ball or the attacker and just inviting crosses to go over his head without doing a thing about it. His positional sense and awareness of the positions of attacking players is woeful and he is a total liability. With a semi-competent LB in the team today Swansea would never have offered as much threat as they did and the whole balance of the game would have been different. We were lucky to get away with it today, thanks mainly to Boruc, but the Guardian summary is correct: he is an accident waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Spot on. Fox and Guly serve as barometers as to just how far Saints have come. They haven't changed - the standard has. It also puts into perspective the achievements of Lallana and Lambert to rise up from Div 3 with the team and look totally at home in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 October, 2013 Share Posted 6 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. This. Fox is clearly out of his depth but I think Guly can do a job at this level, albeit further up the pitch. Hated by the fans who loved Chaplow. We'll finish 7th btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. Really couldn't agree more with this. A few posters could do with considering the big picture of what players and ex-staff have given us. It's nice to be where we are but to consider where we are without losing perspective on where we were and who got us from there to here shows a touch more class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Fox is just not a Premier League player. He works hard, puts a good shift in, but you can see this level of football is just beyond him I'm afraid. Should've started Clyne at LB and Chambers at RB in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 He was right in front of us first half in the Itchen and it's hard it describe how bad he is, when an attacker picks up the ball. Rather than go to close down he does this sort of 3m jockey where he back pedals towards the CB leaving the attacker with all day to cross, pass, whatever he wants. This isn't once irs all the time. You had yesterday to get out to Dyer and close him down but he didn't once. His passing is also poor I feel a bit bad for him as quite simply he shouldn't be playing. Clyne (who was excellent) should have been LB and Chambers RB, that or we have to go in for a better LB in Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 He was poor today but surely he and the team knew what Dyer would do if left with so much room. He should have made sure he stuck with Dyer and got in first with a few crunching tackles to keep him quiet. He knew he was having a poor game and must be disappointed with the jeers. We should never do that to our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 One thing though. With our system our fullbacks often get exposed and the thing is that they need speed which both Clyne and Shaw ???? but Fox doesn´t. When he ???? have the speed needed he wants to back off so he wont be overrun 1-on-1 with the winger. That results that he´s got the wrong position so opponents can exploit the ball between Fox and the CB with the winger cuting in behind. Not his fault he aint got the necessary speed but on the other hand, what kind of quality do people expect from a backup left back. Look around the league and you wont see that much quality in that position (though probably better than Fox, but that doesn´t tell the whole story, does it...) Crikey mate, where did you learn your English grammar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfc Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Dyer's pace will cause any preimer league defender problems. Fox isn't the best defender but some people here have no idea what they're talking about. You cannot afford to stay close to a much faster winger when you have no cover behind you, otherwise they just push the ball past you and are through on goal. Yes we got split open down the left a few times but Swansea are a good side with 4 good attacking players, Michu, Bony, Routlage and Dyer. It's very difficult to put 2 men on any of them for the whole game. Fox isn't out first choice defender, I'm sure the manager is quite aware of his limitations. We might've been a bit lucky but we still didn't concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There when Franny scored Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. Good post and good points well made. Although he is out of his depth the abuse he gets is disgraceful and can only make things worse. I think he is a better player than he thinks he is, but is chronically short on confidence and petrified of pace meaning that he tucks in too far leaving our left completely exposed and dragging other players out of position to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 ... It also puts into perspective the achievements of Lallana and Lambert to rise up from Div 3 with the team and look totally at home in this league. Not to mention Fonte, whose partnership with Lovren is the rock on which our current form is based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Went to the Norwich game and Fox was quite clearly limited but not cut apart by snodgrass. That week it was chambers being slaughtered by Redmond. This week it was Fox being slaughtered by a great winger dyer(how i wish we'd been able to nurture him rather than let swansea benefit). Our reserve fullbacks aren't as good as our first choice ones shock horror. Maybe in a year or so's time a youngster like Targett will be in a place to act as back up instead. In the meantime i hope fans don't make it worse for fox by getting on his back when we are forced to play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 The number of times that there was a collective groan from all around me in the Northam last season when Fox's name was read out in the pre-match team, tells me that he was not considered to be a player of Championship standard. And just as now, any tactically astute manager would have identified him as our weak link and exploited that flank. Because we are now in the top flight, his shortcomings are magnified by better and faster players and more tactically astute managers to exploit any perceived weaknesses in a rival team. Yesterday we had one of the fastest wingers in the division employed by one of the most tactically astute managers to exploit Fox's wing and we were extremely fortunate that we had not conceded a goal or two before Pochettino brought on Ward-Prowse to shore up that side. I would go as far as to say that because of one player, we were unable to play our high pressing game to the extent that we would have liked because of the worry that we would leave ourselves too exposed down the left flank. That tactic requires two fast fullbacks with the speed to both maraud forward and then track back to defend and if one of them does not have the speed or the defensive ability, the whole formation is lop-sided. We were able to change the formation to deprive Swansea of their width and protect our lead having gone ahead, but how we would have reacted tactically had we gone behind, God knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Went to the Norwich game and Fox was quite clearly limited but not cut apart by snodgrass. That week it was chambers being slaughtered by Redmond. This week it was Fox being slaughtered by a great winger dyer(how i wish we'd been able to nurture him rather than let swansea benefit). Our reserve fullbacks aren't as good as our first choice ones shock horror. Maybe in a year or so's time a youngster like Targett will be in a place to act as back up instead. In the meantime i hope fans don't make it worse for fox by getting on his back when we are forced to play him. Snodgrass isn't all that good really, not compared to Dyer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Valley Saint Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 I said to my son on the way out that only Saints fans could boo their own player whilst sitting 4th in the league! Utterly pathetic from the abusers. What other ground have you been to where they boo/jeer their own players whilst winning? It was unsettling for the team as they were reluctant to involve him because of the stick he was getting - a Catch 22 situation brought on by our venomous fans! He was up against one of the quickest wingers in the Prem and it wasn't his fault that he was exposed. He wasn't given much help until JWP came on. He had to stand off him - what good would diving in have done? At least he bought a bit of time for the others to cover. No he's not as good as Luke Shaw but he puts a Saints shirt on, gives it his best and deserves better from the supporters. How many who were there yesterday jeering him watched him in our promotion season? Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 I said to my son on the way out that only Saints fans could boo their own player whilst sitting 4th in the league! Utterly pathetic from the abusers. What other ground have you been to where they boo/jeer their own players whilst winning? It was unsettling for the team as they were reluctant to involve him because of the stick he was getting - a Catch 22 situation brought on by our venomous fans! He was up against one of the quickest wingers in the Prem and it wasn't his fault that he was exposed. He wasn't given much help until JWP came on. He had to stand off him - what good would diving in have done? At least he bought a bit of time for the others to cover. No he's not as good as Luke Shaw but he puts a Saints shirt on, gives it his best and deserves better from the supporters. How many who were there yesterday jeering him watched him in our promotion season? Pathetic. Quite right, we won a difficult game against a good side 2-0 and are doing better than most of us expected at this stage, yet still people get on the backs of the players. Just like the abuse Guly got in the championship when we were top of the league and going for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. I always have to be a bit careful quoting you Turks, because it can be rather difficult to work out the few times you're not on the wind up. Gotta say I agree with this 100% though. Unfortunately for Fox, yesterday he had to come into the side, just in time to play against one of the quickest right sided attackers in the league. When you couple that with the fact that he's not a regular starter and he was always likely to be on a hiding to nothing. Pity he got so much stick. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that it was a small minority, as it was picked up on the 5 live microphones and was even mentioned by Pulis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 No booing near me in the central Kingsland. A few groans when passes were misplaced as happens to anybody. When JWP came on Fox tried to pass short to him down the wing without looking first and got intercepted so when he subsequently found his target there were some ironic cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 It seems as if everyone's taking Fox's positional play yesterday in complete isolation and failing to pick up on the fact that Nathaniel Clyne's positioning was identical to Fox's. They were both tucked in which made our back 4 very narrow (rather like what Liverpool did against us a few weeks ago). That can only have been by design, although I'm struggling to comprehend the thinking behind it when you're playing against a team who have wingers like Dyer and Routledge in their side. As for standing off Dyer, what's he supposed to do? He knows Dyer will do him (and everyone else in our side) for pace, so if he closes him down 40 yards from goal, that leaves a ****ing massive space for Dyer to just knock the ball past Fox and run round him. It's also worth noting that Clyne got much more assistance from Lallana than Fox did from Davis. Understandable given Davis is a central midfielder and Lallana has played wide many times for us, and I would have liked to have seen Lallana tasked with supporting Fox instead, as Dyer was always going to be the bigger threat, and Clyne can probably cope better on his own than Fox can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 No booing near me in the central Kingsland. A few groans when passes were misplaced as happens to anybody. When JWP came on Fox tried to pass short to him down the wing without looking first and got intercepted so when he subsequently found his target there were some ironic cheers. Two identical incidents in the space of a minute or two, where JWP - not long on the pitch so perhaps not quite up to the speed of the game yet - was a bit flat-footed and allowed Rangel to get to the ball ahead of him. The only other option Fox had there was to hit it long down the line, but with Lambert tiring (and not a channel-runner like Rodriguez) that wasn't really viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 (edited) Clearly Pochettino rates him otherwise he would not play him. Dyer gave him a hard time and he was done several times for pace. But he got a few important tackles in and delivered some good crosses. But hey, if you don't like him you will only see the bad side of him. Personally I think he is is ok as back up. I agree mate. Most of his detractors on here have made their mind up about him before he kicks a ball in the game and would give no credit at any time as they have to stick to there stance no matter what...pathetic Edited 7 October, 2013 by ALWAYS_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Be interesting to see if the same number of excuses are peddled out for some of our higher calibre players if they put in a performance as inept as Fox's. SteveG.... It wasn't tactical, Fox has positioned himself like that constantly and the other players wouldn't get frustrated with him if we was doing exactly what was asked of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey1saint Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 He's out of his depth to be honest. He played as well as he could, probably, but his positioning sense at this level just isn't there and never, ever, will be. He's not a top half PL player, he may do a kind of job for a lower PL team, but I don't think we'll be seeing much more of him if we want to progress. This is pretty accurate in my opinion. Doesn't deserve abuse though,he does his best. Terrible against Dyer,looked lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Be interesting to see if the same number of excuses are peddled out for some of our higher calibre players if they put in a performance as inept as Fox's. SteveG.... It wasn't tactical, Fox has positioned himself like that constantly and the other players wouldn't get frustrated with him if we was doing exactly what was asked of him. I know what I saw. Clyne's positioning was absolutely identical, i.e. sit back in line with the two centre-backs, and don't go wider than the 18-yard box. Clyne was barely tested as Routledge played much more centrally than usual and Lallana was much better than Davis at providing cover. The number of times Fox was left exposed on that side against Dyer and Rangel together was embarrassing - while Pochettino should rightly get praise for the Osvaldo/JWP substitution that wrestled control back from Swansea in the second half, he really should have switched the players already on the pitch around before half-time to give Fox a bit of help. The reason every Swansea attack came down that flank was because we let them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 I know what I saw. Clyne's positioning was absolutely identical, i.e. sit back in line with the two centre-backs, and don't go wider than the 18-yard box. Clyne was barely tested as Routledge played much more centrally than usual and Lallana was much better than Davis at providing cover. The number of times Fox was left exposed on that side against Dyer and Rangel together was embarrassing - while Pochettino should rightly get praise for the Osvaldo/JWP substitution that wrestled control back from Swansea in the second half, he really should have switched the players already on the pitch around before half-time to give Fox a bit of help. The reason every Swansea attack came down that flank was because we let them do it. Well Dyer wasn't just going wide, when he did come inside Fox was still nowhere near him. I felt sorry for Davis, there were a few occasions where he basically had to track Dyer and Rangel by himself, JWP had to come on with the sole purpose of plugging that side. Of course all fullbacks need some form of protection but Lallana was able to get forwards and be effective, he was often the furthest forward in the first half and wasn't helping Clyne much at all. As I said, if it was all tactical and if Fox was doing the best he could do, his defensive partners wouldn't have been getting so annoyed at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Jazzbo Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Two identical incidents in the space of a minute or two, where JWP - not long on the pitch so perhaps not quite up to the speed of the game yet - was a bit flat-footed and allowed Rangel to get to the ball ahead of him. The only other option Fox had there was to hit it long down the line, but with Lambert tiring (and not a channel-runner like Rodriguez) that wasn't really viable. I picked both of those, and both times the crowd blamed Fox, I actually thought they were good passed, JWP should have anticipated them both and come for the ball rather than just stand there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Sadly for Danny Fox his excellent performance in our promotion season is now forgotten and when he is inevitably moved on sooner rather than later he'll be remember as a crap player who wasn't good enough for us. The truth is somewhat different, he was signed in the championship and proved himself a very capable left back at that level, sadly for him he was a victim of his own success and whilst he played a big part in our promotion season clearly isn't good enough or the premier league. Unlike Hammond, Chaplow, Sharp & Harding who were moved on before they had the chance for the so called fans to label then 'crap' he's been thrown in to a divison which he isn't good enough for and whilst the others will be remembered as heroes who played their part in an great journey, Fox and Guly now have the indignity of being the crowd boo boys, despite always giving their best and trying 100%, despite ultimately not being good enough. Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. Absolutely, this is something I was saying all last season as well. He was the best LB in the league when we were promoted. Another point on Guly, behind Lambert and Lallana he had more goals and assists than any other player in our rise from league one. Something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 If you want to abuse / boo our own players then you should be sitting at the other end of the ground. (Likewise, I felt embarrassed to hear Guly getting booed - even in the last 5 mins). There were times in the Championship season when Fox looked good, and he DidAJFU, but still showed weaknesses. He is clearly not Prem. standard, and is certainly no competition for the younger Shaw, but in the event of a longer term stint at LB, we have no suitable option (at present). Whatever the situation, I would NEVER boo a Saints player ..and in the last 50 years..... I've seen quite a few miss open goals you'd never believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 If you want to abuse / boo our own players then you should be sitting at the other end of the ground. (Likewise, I felt embarrassed to hear Guly getting booed - even in the last 5 mins). There were times in the Championship season when Fox looked good, and he DidAJFU, but still showed weaknesses. He is clearly not Prem. standard, and is certainly no competition for the younger Shaw, but in the event of a longer term stint at LB, we have no suitable option (at present). Whatever the situation, I would NEVER boo a Saints player ..and in the last 50 years..... I've seen quite a few miss open goals you'd never believe. Guly wasn't getting booed, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Guly wasn't getting booed, at all. Nope, if anything he was cheered a little where I sit. Fox wasn't booed either (that I could hear), but the sarcastic cheering was a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 If you want to abuse / boo our own players then you should be sitting at the other end of the ground. (Likewise, I felt embarrassed to hear Guly getting booed - even in the last 5 mins). There were times in the Championship season when Fox looked good, and he DidAJFU, but still showed weaknesses. He is clearly not Prem. standard, and is certainly no competition for the younger Shaw, but in the event of a longer term stint at LB, we have no suitable option (at present). Whatever the situation, I would NEVER boo a Saints player ..and in the last 50 years..... I've seen quite a few miss open goals you'd never believe. Didn't hear anyone boo any player yesterday. Just the usual groans which all players get when they lose possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Quite Frankly Fox and Guly deserve a bit more respect, neither are premier league players but have always given their all and they too played a big part in our march up the league, sadly some of our fans seem to have forgotten this and happy to dish out stick to good pros who have played their part for this club. Quite sad but unsurprising that so many people seem to so obsessed with progressing they forget and criticise those who helped us get there. I don't always agree with all of your utterances Turkish, but on this one I'm 100%. I find it sad to hear Saints players booed during a match, the time for reflection is after the game - not during it. I didn't hear a lot of enthusiastic cheering when Rodriguez came on either, but he waltzed around two defenders to score a good goal and tie up the points. If people feel they want to abuse a player ....can anyone look forward to a time when they might boo Rickie Lambert ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 October, 2013 Share Posted 7 October, 2013 Didn't hear anyone boo any player yesterday. Just the usual groans which all players get when they lose possession. same difference surely. If someone's having a bad time, they don't play better if they don't get some encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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