Wanyama's 'goal'

[Lord Duckhunter]

My lad is in a local Refs Association and they had a Prem League ref as a guest speaker and he

said exactly what happened is how they correct wrong decisions by trying to level it up.

 

 

I said to the guy next to me before the corner was taken "he'll blow for a foul", it was so obvious what was going to happen. Saints players obviously realised as well, because there was not much arguing about what was a perfectly good goal.

 

Ref's obviously think that this is the best thing to do, but I'm not so sure. They are always on about respecting the ref and accepting decisions, but the only reason Dean knew he'd made a mistake was the reaction of 3 or 4 Swansea players. Had they just accepted the ref's decision and thought "oh well, it's a tough job and he's doing his best", Dean would not have realised his basic error and they'd have been 2 down. By caving in and making things even it proves that argue enough and the ref will be influenced.

[trousers]

I said to the guy next to me before the corner was taken "he'll blow for a foul", it was so obvious what was going to happen. Saints players obviously realised as well, because there was not much arguing about what was a perfectly good goal.

 

Ref's obviously think that this is the best thing to do, but I'm not so sure. They are always on about respecting the ref and accepting decisions, but the only reason Dean knew he'd made a mistake was the reaction of 3 or 4 Swansea players. Had they just accepted the ref's decision and thought "oh well, it's a tough job and he's doing his best", Dean would not have realised his basic error and they'd have been 2 down. By caving in and making things even it proves that argue enough and the ref will be influenced.

 

I was going to make a similar point: How did Dean ACTUALLY know that it wasn't a corner? Player protests isn't a good enough reason for him to come to a definitive conclusion that he got it wrong. The only way he'd have known for certain is for the 4th official to have seen a replay and told Dean via his earpiece. Which raises the question whether that is actually allowed within the rules?

 

Either way, Dean gave a decision based on what he thought he'd seen. That's not 'wrong' per se.

 

To me, going down the "2 wrongs making a right" route is a slippery path...if even-ing things out is an accepted practice then the rules need changing to allow a referee to reverse a decision before play recommences. So, if Dean had received conclusive information that it was a goal kick then blow the whistle before the corner is taken and change the decision.

[Whitey Grandad]

A referee can change his decision providing play has not restarted.

[sandwichsaint]

I was going to make a similar point: How did Dean ACTUALLY know that it wasn't a corner? Player protests isn't a good enough reason for him to come to a definitive conclusion that he got it wrong. The only way he'd have known for certain is for the 4th official to have seen a replay and told Dean via his earpiece. Which raises the question whether that is actually allowed within the rules?

 

Either way, Dean gave a decision based on what he thought he'd seen. That's not 'wrong' per se.

 

To me, going down the "2 wrongs making a right" route is a slippery path...if even-ing things out is an accepted practice then the rules need changing to allow a referee to reverse a decision before play recommences. So, if Dean had received conclusive information that it was a goal kick then blow the whistle before the corner is taken and change the decision.

 

Dean's 'original' mistake was in giving the corner a fraction too quickly.

 

He couldn't have definitively seen if it was a corner or not (due to the position of the two players and the unusual bounce of the ball), neither lino could help him; sometimes (very rarely) you have to give it on your gut instinct.

 

If he had waited for a split second longer he would have seen the Swansea player turn away upfield for a goal kick, similarly JW-P turned and started to head back into a defensive position.

 

He would have known at that time that he had almost certainly got it wrong by the reaction of the two players, he is then in the difficult position of how to reverse a decision he has made in good faith.

 

Given that he was then instantly surrounded by angry Swansea players it is hard to reverse the decision without appearing to back down to mob rule.

 

Standing by an incorrect decision and then 'levelling up' is probably the way to go - interesting point above that Saints players didn't complain though there was clearly no foul.

[Gemmel]

Shame Mr Webb doesn't do the same

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I was going to make a similar point: How did Dean ACTUALLY know that it wasn't a corner? Player protests isn't a good enough reason for him to come to a definitive conclusion that he got it wrong. The only way he'd have known for certain is for the 4th official to have seen a replay and told Dean via his earpiece. Which raises the question whether that is actually allowed within the rules?

 

 

The commentators on Solent saw a replay of the ball going out well before the kick was taken. The fourth official no doubt gave Dean a quick word before the kick was taken. This isn't strictly allowed and is why Dean didn't simply over-rule to give a goal kick. If it was allowed you'd get players and managers demanding a review by the 4th official of nearly every decision.

[Scummer]

interesting point above that Saints players didn't complain though there was clearly no foul.

 

Didn't really have much chance did they? Swansea took the free kick and were half way up the pitch while several of our team were still well out of position celebrating the 'goal'.

[sandwichsaint]

Didn't really have much chance did they? Swansea took the free kick and were half way up the pitch while several of our team were still well out of position celebrating the 'goal'.

 

Thank goodness they didn't score from that quick break, good thinking by them but it would have left Mr Dean with some higher-level levelling-up to consider.

 

I was surprised he allowed the quick free kick with half the Saints players heading for the corner flag!

[trousers]

Thank goodness they didn't score from that quick break, good thinking by them but it would have left Mr Dean with some higher-level levelling-up to consider.

 

And therein lies the problem with the 'levelling out' approach. Where do you stop? As you say, Swansea could have got an advantage out of the 2nd 'wrong' decision. Referees should simply 'man up' and reverse their original decision whilst there is still time to do so. In my humble opinion of course.

[DT]

Dean should stick to skating

[Saint-Armstrong]

[trousers]

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?47070-Wanyama-s-goal&p=1794521#post1794521

[Barry the Badger]

And therein lies the problem with the 'levelling out' approach. Where do you stop? As you say, Swansea could have got an advantage out of the 2nd 'wrong' decision. Referees should simply 'man up' and reverse their original decision whilst there is still time to do so. In my humble opinion of course.

 

But the only reason he knew it was wrong was either because Swansea went mental, which he can't be seen to let influence him, or because the fourth official told him, which is against the rules.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

It always ****es me off when the 'defending' side takes advantage of situations like this and break quickly. Just because the Argies did it after Sol's 'goal', everyone thinks its fair play. The ref needs to get control back in situations like this by blowing up for a phantom offside or foul, or falling over and stopping play, to square things up. We always get **** refs. Poor sportsmanship from Swansea for sure.

[Saint_clark]

It always ****es me off when the 'defending' side takes advantage of situations like this and break quickly. Just because the Argies did it after Sol's 'goal', everyone thinks its fair play. The ref needs to get control back in situations like this by blowing up for a phantom offside or foul, or falling over and stopping play, to square things up. We always get **** refs. Poor sportsmanship from Swansea for sure.

 

...this is a joke, right?

[Jimmy_D]

But the only reason he knew it was wrong was either because Swansea went mental, which he can't be seen to let influence him, or because the fourth official told him, which is against the rules.

 

The reaction of the Northam Stand might have clued him in a bit as well.

[sandwichsaint]

But the only reason he knew it was wrong was either because Swansea went mental, which he can't be seen to let influence him, or because the fourth official told him, which is against the rules.

 

He would have known it was the wrong decision when the defender and JW-P both turned to move back up field for a goal kick (assuming he saw that and hadn't turned his back to run to the corner of the box ready for the corner).

[Kingsbridge Saint]

...this is a joke, right?

 

Not joking.

 

It's rank bad sportsmanship. Look at this clip - the 7 looks real guilty after he scores, the coaches and fans are going nuts and there's a comment on the thread suggesting its bad sportsmanship. Why would I be joking?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDIi0noZhYA

[Whitey Grandad]

Not joking.

 

It's rank bad sportsmanship. Look at this clip - the 7 looks real guilty after he scores, the coaches and fans are going nuts and there's a comment on the thread suggesting its bad sportsmanship. Why would I be joking?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDIi0noZhYA

 

There's nothing wrong with this. If one team are alert enough to be aware of what's going on then why should they wait for the other? And what on earth is the keeper doing so far up the pitch? It's just a quickly-taken free kick. They should blame the idiot forward for being in such an obvious offside position.

[Barry the Badger]

Not joking.

 

It's rank bad sportsmanship. Look at this clip - the 7 looks real guilty after he scores, the coaches and fans are going nuts and there's a comment on the thread suggesting its bad sportsmanship. Why would I be joking?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDIi0noZhYA

 

It was pretty much fair game, JWP could easily have admitted to the ref that it was a to. We happily took advantage of the mystery corner so can't complain that they tried to take advantage of the disallowed goal.