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Standard of refs


Batman

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You've got to have balls to be a referee. You can't be Mr. Nice Guy.

 

That's the trouble with a lot of British Refs...they try to be pals with the players and that's a mistake. The ref is an authority figure and needs to act like one or he won't be shown the respect he needs to control the game.

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They're only controversial because the media try to make them out to be worse than they are. There are very rarely the obvious howlers but these are few and far between.

 

You having a laugh? Dreadful this season.

 

I actually used to hate it when people expected perfection from refs as is a nightmare job and to get things right with all the gamesmanship. However many seem too scared to make a decision now and so will get less stick for not giving a penalty than giving one erroneously. Don't know if stats bear that out mind but feels like it..

 

Oliver rightly got commended but stood out as refreshing to put in such a competent performance.

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I am very happy with the current standard of refereeing and the small number of truly controversial incidents is far out weighed by the millions of good decisions made routinely at every game by the officials when most people in the crowd have no idea what is going on. Considering the vile abuse directed at referees by home crowds in pretty much every game one can only marvel that there are enough stout hearted individuals who will take the job on in the first place e and for what, a pittance in footballing terms compared to what all the diving and moaning so-called stars get paid for being offensive. High time people laid off referees and pointed the finger at the real architects of their misery, under performing coaches and players.

 

As the dad of a ref this is a very good post - I stand on a touchline watching/protecting him from some of the biggest ****s you could ever hear most weekends who have absolutely no idea on the laws of the game. refs get 1 second to decide - pundits sit in the comfort of a warm studio watching it in slow motion from every angle and still get it wrong.

I was at a presentation by a top asst ref last year who admitted some refs are too arrogant to listen to them and want to make all the decisions which is why you see some never flag when its even a yard from them.

As for help from the 4th official....so what level do you go down to? Conf, league two? Prem only? think of the extra cost - does that alienate the other leagues even more from the holy grail that is the Prem League?

Top refs get about 100k a year..my son gets about £20 with no help normally from cheating club linos...no microphones or tv how much tougher will that make it for him and others who do this for a bit of money as the **** Tyro dads will expect him to freeze frame and watch it again from his Iphone :-).

I have seen some brilliant young refs in Southampton this year, whats the difference.....positioning....most can get close to play - Dowd for one makes decisions from far too far away.

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You having a laugh? Dreadful this season.

 

I actually used to hate it when people expected perfection from refs as is a nightmare job and to get things right with all the gamesmanship. However many seem too scared to make a decision now and so will get less stick for not giving a penalty than giving one erroneously. Don't know if stats bear that out mind but feels like it..

 

Oliver rightly got commended but stood out as refreshing to put in such a competent performance.

 

In most cases that I have seen the TV replays have not proved the referee to have been incorrect, I have often maintained that seeing something through a remote lens in slow-motion does not give you a true interpretation of the incident. Some of these players have spent many hours practising their simulation and it needs a good close-up view in 3-D real time to detect this.

 

You are right that it easier not to make a decision and be thought wrong than to give one that may have a more influential outcome. There was an article in The Times recently describing this. I think they called it the sin of omission rather than commission.

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I do not think a single fan expects perfection from refs and of course, fans will moan about officials in a biased fashion.

 

However, across the league during this season, the standards have been absolutely awful

it says something when we came away from winning 3-0 (at home to everton) and still seething about the ref.

The idiot we had in charge against West Ham too.

Kevin Friend against Liverpool the other week....that was way beyond 'missing a couple of incidents'...it was a disgrace

 

 

Just around the league, almost...actually..EVERY weekend, there are highlights of the standards being disgracefully poor

Edited by Batman
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Kevin Friend against Liverpool the other week....that was way beyond 'missing a couple of incidents'...it was a disgrace

 

 

I really disagree that it was a "disgrace". The first penalty shout was a blatant dive, sure there was a hand on the shoulder but Djuricic threw himself to the ground and was lucky not to get booked. That undoubtedly plays on the refs mind when the second one comes along an he has to make a quick decision, this player has tried to con him once already and that must put doubt in the refs mind.

 

It's nonsense the amount of air time given to refs when the real issue is the constant attempts to fool them by the players.

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I really disagree that it was a "disgrace". The first penalty shout was a blatant dive, sure there was a hand on the shoulder but Djuricic threw himself to the ground and was lucky not to get booked. That undoubtedly plays on the refs mind when the second one comes along an he has to make a quick decision, this player has tried to con him once already and that must put doubt in the refs mind.

 

It's nonsense the amount of air time given to refs when the real issue is the constant attempts to fool them by the players.

 

 

The second was a penalty. The ref can't assume it was a dive because he might have thought Duricic dived. He has to view each incident objectively. In any case you are making an assumptions about both incidents. We might equally ask if Friend didn't give the first or even both because he thought Duricic dived then why didn't he book him for simulation. Plus Friend missed a blatant handball in the box by Lovren. Poor performance by the ref as recognised by his demotion the following week.

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The second was a penalty. The ref can't assume it was a dive because he might have thought Duricic dived. He has to view each incident objectively. In any case you are making an assumptions about both incidents. We might equally ask if Friend didn't give the first or even both because he thought Duricic dived then why didn't he book him for simulation. Plus Friend missed a blatant handball in the box by Lovren. Poor performance by the ref as recognised by his demotion the following week.

 

Maybe he just didn't think Lovren's handball was deliberate, and I would agree with him. The second Djuricic one I don't think he saw it clearly enough to give us a penalty, unfortunately.

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Got to say the ref today against Chelsea had a great game. Perhaps should've shown a second yellow to Matic but he was otherwise fair and kept the game flowing.

 

I agree with the general point but feel strongly that he 'bottled' the 2nd Matic booking, he went for his pocket straight away before seeing it was Matic and then changed his mind !

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I agree with the general point but feel strongly that he 'bottled' the 2nd Matic booking, he went for his pocket straight away before seeing it was Matic and then changed his mind !

 

I also thought he was generally good, but come on....base your decisions on what you see, not how it will affect the game ref!

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Just plain odd what happened at Man City.

 

I'm sure he was just doing his best

 

Yes, strange mistake for someone of his experience. As a referee it's the one thing you have nightmares about. This is why the players have big numbers on the back of their shirts and for the last few season in the fronts of their shorts as well. In WBA's case these are big dark blue numbers on a white background.

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I'm new to the forums and don't really have time to read through the whole thread but...

 

I don't think it's the standard of refereeing that has slipped, it's just becoming much, much harder to manage games when players are constantly diving and trying to con/pressure the ref into a decision.

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I'm new to the forums and don't really have time to read through the whole thread but...

 

I don't think it's the standard of refereeing that has slipped, it's just becoming much, much harder to manage games when players are constantly diving and trying to con/pressure the ref into a decision.

 

Exactly this. Plus all the abundance of TV cameras and the fact that they only highlight the mistakes, even to the point of inventing mistakes when they don't understand the laws of the game.

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I'm new to the forums and don't really have time to read through the whole thread but...

 

I don't think it's the standard of refereeing that has slipped, it's just becoming much, much harder to manage games when players are constantly diving and trying to con/pressure the ref into a decision.

 

I totally agree - I think the game is now simply so much quicker and the rules of the game are so much tighter then they used to be. Not that long ago, you could tackle from behind, clatter players etc and even now a slight contact means certain players will fall over and it all happens very quickly.

 

Benefit for those watching on TV and the pundits is that you see in ultra slow motion, retrospectively, so it's easier to make a decision.

 

I do actually believe we should now have an official watching a TV and we should (unfortunately) have time outs like they do in Rugby, just to check the right decision has been made. In the past, I didn't believe in that sh*t at all, but now I think we need to move with the times.

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Refs are not wrong as often as the talking heads on MotD would have the viewers believe. When the ex=-players expound their so called 'wisdom' they frequently talk about whether there was 'contact'. There must be fans who now think that there can't be contact between players in the area without a penalty being awarded. But referees know better. They know the 10 offences for which a direct free kick, of if in the area, a penalty, may be given and that for 7 of those offences the referee must consider that defaulting player was careless, reckless or used excessive force.

Football is a contact sport and the criteria for a penalty are the same as those for a free kick anywhere else on the pitch. The ref won't always have a clear view of an incident and he certainly won't be able to peer at half-a-dozen replays in slow motion from three different angles. But one thing is certain, that referee's opinions are independent and unbiased, not like the managers who criticise them having seen very little of the incident from up to some 50 yards away.

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We now have professional refs - so the programme no longer lists their occupation. I think that the standard of refs is actually better than it was when I first started watching, but the pressure on them is now enormous, both from players cheating and from the constant gaze of the media. Some of them have become unbelievably defensive, don't listen to players, which is how we get cases of mistaken identity. Rugby refs are miked up. I watched the last few minutes of the England game on Saturday after getting home from SMS, and the refs were standing no nonsense.

 

I think that things are about to change. In particular:

- Video reviews. There are normally only 2 or 3 really contentious incidents in a match, so if videos help the ref get these right, then all the better

- Communication. We need to hear from refs after a game to explain decisions

- Players. Hounding refs is becoming endemic. Should just be the player concerned and the captain with the ref. Anyone else gets booked.

 

I occasionally catch the football league show. The number of dodgy penalties given outside the Premier League is unbelievable. Bournemouth have had 14 this season. We have had 3

 

Thoughts?

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All those on here criticising referees should try once - just once - refereeing a Sunday League game, just to see what it is like.

 

I guarantee you will never be as quick to chastise referees again.

 

Of course referees make mistakes, and they should not be above criticism.

 

But the wholesale witch-hunts against referees is a relatively recent development, borne out of the increased coverage of football, and the need to have a target for criticism.

 

With up to 16 cameras at every Premier League game now, every cough, spit and fart on the pitch is under close scrutiny; scrutiny that takes place - as others have said - at leisure in the comfort of a TV studio, by former players with a large mugful of hindsight to hand.

 

Also, having paid huge amounts of money for coverage, TV companies are so far up the Premier League's backside in an attempt to curry favour to gain more access, they rarely criticise players. Even when it warrants criticism, the ex-player pundits will pull their punches and pull up just shy of dishing out deserved stick.

 

So if you won't criticise players, the easy target is referees.

 

It's reassuring that most sensible people on this thread agree that it's hard to criticise referees when players are constantly trying to con them, and some of them have developed that particular skill into an art form.

 

Referees are no worse today than they were five, 10, 20 or 50 years ago.

 

What's happened is their decisions are now more open to scrutiny.

 

Years ago, when a referee made a decision, people might not have liked it, but to an extent they accepted it and of course the other by-product of this mass scrutiny, is that referees' authority has been undermined.

 

That's bad enough in the Premier League and professional football, but the implications for referees having their authority undermined become more serious the more you descend football's pyramid.

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This, from a Greek 3rd division game has to be one of the most spectacularly inept decisions of all time.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jm46y_referee-awards-penalty-after-player-accidentally-fouls-himself-in-greek-3rd-division_sport?start=2

 

Have a look again. Does the yellow number 12 catch the forwards trailing leg causing him to miskick wildly?

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  • 4 months later...

after the disgrace at Anfield when Benteke scored

 

a bit of a howler at Sunderland yesterday. The ball clearly hit ashley williams in the arm. Now, it cold be debatable whether it was a nailed on pen but the ref actioned that it never hit him on the arm as his arms were down by his side....

 

 

odd

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after the disgrace at Anfield when Benteke scored

 

a bit of a howler at Sunderland yesterday. The ball clearly hit ashley williams in the arm. Now, it cold be debatable whether it was a nailed on pen but the ref actioned that it never hit him on the arm as his arms were down by his side....

 

 

odd

 

This shows why referees should never mimic the offence, or lack of it, because such actions can be misinterpreted. I took the ref's actions to mean that the player's hands were down by his sides but we can't know that for sure. A simple shake of the head would have been more than enough.

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Whilst I agree that our Prem refs are pretty useless, I would like to give credit to the ref on Thursday. I thought he was very good and used the advantage rule much better than most refs.

 

People will moan about the "time wasting" but that was largely feigning injury and the rules don't really allow the referees to do anything to stop that so I don't blame him for that. He can't book someone for maybe not being actually that badly hurt.

 

Rules should change so treatment can occur on pitch whilst the game continues. That would disincentivise feigning injury as there would be no benefit in doing so.

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I agree , I thought the ref was excellent thurs . No nonsense , no chucking cards about left right and centre , and good use of advantage rules . He seemed to lack the arrogance of our home officials .

I was pleasantly surprised as well that he gave free kicks for the annoying nudges in the back that our referees never seem to give. He was particularly good but did let himself down a bit with the time wasting, should have cracked down on it earlier, and also he booked the wrong player at the end when he finally did do something, he should have booked their No 2, the knob with the bob, who had been doing his best to waste time all game, and caused the incident when the booking was made. But i would gladly have him as a ref every week. So much better than anything we see in the PL. Who was he by the way?

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I was pleasantly surprised as well that he gave free kicks for the annoying nudges in the back that our referees never seem to give. He was particularly good but did let himself down a bit with the time wasting, should have cracked down on it earlier, and also he booked the wrong player at the end when he finally did do something, he should have booked their No 2, the knob with the bob, who had been doing his best to waste time all game, and caused the incident when the booking was made. But i would gladly have him as a ref every week. So much better than anything we see in the PL. Who was he by the way?

 

Clément Turpin. I thought he was good too.

 

http://sportif225.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ARBITRE_TURPIN_Ligue1.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
He was appalling

 

He showed what a clown he was, walking over to the corner after the fans questioned the ball position

That was the ultimate show that he was influenced by Chelsea and massively favoured them all day. They were wrong, the ball was positioned fine, but he had to appease them and made a massive thing of running over when he could have asked the linesman. Spineless.

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That was the ultimate show that he was influenced by Chelsea and massively favoured them all day. They were wrong, the ball was positioned fine, but he had to appease them and made a massive thing of running over when he could have asked the linesman. Spineless.

 

Which linesman would that have been? They were both half a pitch away.

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