igsey Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 First time Costa's been sent off for Chelsea. How?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 First time Costa's been sent off for Chelsea. How?? Amazing stat although slightly misleading as he's had two (?) retrospective bans from post-match video reviews. I think. Would love to see him play against a Viera / Case / Keown / Keane type lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 For what it's worth, Mark Hughes said he was 'as surprised as everybody' that Sadio got a red card today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 Michael Oliver was good tonight. Impressed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 the ref at the everton/chelsea game has sent costa off. about time looks like the nutter may have bitten gareth barry!!! Did he actually? Precedent set for that already with Suarez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 Did he actually? Precedent set for that already with Suarez... Don't think he actually bit, but motioned to and repeatedly pushed his head into the Everton player - pure aggression aiming to get a reaction, which he didn't. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think that's disgusting and has no place in the game. I hope he gets a massive ban, but expect that he won't. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 Today proved again that the refs need assistance from a TV screen due to the pace of the game. At first I thought "f**king hell, the tw*t has elbowed him" ... but after the first replay you could see he hasn't. refs aren't brilliant but we do need video assistance due to the pace of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 Oliver did well tonight, that was not an easy game to control. Thoroughly enjoyed seeing Costa sent off, he is a disgrace, his antics have no place in the sport. I noticed that he spat on the ground in the direction of the ref when he was first booked, and his final assault on Barry could well have been a straight red. He even makes John Terry look pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 I really thought Costa was going to chin the ref when he got his red Regarding our game , I wasn't there . But, there is a line a commentator has to draw & I thought the plum on Solent crossed it today . He was giving personal opinions on the ref from the off . All game he was banging on about what a poor ref he is , that's crossed an impartial line imo . I'm not saying they should be all Brian Johnston and say " he'll be disappointed with his decision when he sees the replay " , but they should keep personal opinions out of it . At the end he was getting all excited that Crouch had to go , before grudgingly conceding Mason was right . As I say , I wasn't there , and he may have been shiete , but Solent got personal and I thought it unprofessional and biased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 March, 2016 Share Posted 12 March, 2016 Just watched MOD...... Not even whitley granddad can excuse those two decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 March, 2016 Share Posted 13 March, 2016 Just watched MOD...... Not even whitley granddad can excuse those two decisions. Please see my comments on the match thread. The penalty was not quite as stonewall as some make out but the red card was for something that never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 13 March, 2016 Share Posted 13 March, 2016 Please see my comments on the match thread. The penalty was not quite as stonewall as some make out but the red card was for something that never happened. I thought a ref could only give what he see's If bentekes was a penalty we should have had four for that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 March, 2016 Share Posted 13 March, 2016 I thought a ref could only give what he see's If bentekes was a penalty we should have had four for that one Benteke's was given by the assistant, to be fair to the ref. I think our claim was better that his but different ref, different day. (Nice use/non-use of the apostrophe by the way ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 19 March, 2016 Share Posted 19 March, 2016 Today's highlight. https://mobile.twitter.com/WestHamSocial/status/711235923535646720/video/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 19 March, 2016 Share Posted 19 March, 2016 Cheating ....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 Another highlight - Dann taking shirt pulling to a whole new level... https://streamable.com/qw6v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 Another highlight - Dann taking shirt pulling to a whole new level... https://streamable.com/qw6v I'm surprised Huth wasn't booked for having his shirt removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 I'm surprised Huth wasn't booked for having his shirt removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 Roger East today..have we had him before this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 If you get chance watch the Barcelona penalty!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 Ref absolutely sh11te again today in the first half, not to mention the lino needing Tadic to talk him into putting his flag up to prevent Liverpool's obviously offside "3rd". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 March, 2016 Share Posted 20 March, 2016 Ref absolutely sh11te again today in the first half, not to mention the lino needing Tadic to talk him into putting his flag up to prevent Liverpool's obviously offside "3rd". How they missed that shot being tipped over for a corner I shall never know. I don't think Tadic actually influenced the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 TBF he improved immeasurably in 2nd half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 How they missed that shot being tipped over for a corner I shall never know. I don't think Tadic actually influenced the decision. Indeed, but Manes first was about a minute after that so thank god he didn't give the corner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 How they missed that shot being tipped over for a corner I shall never know. I don't think Tadic actually influenced the decision. Well he should have had his flag up immediately just to indicate the player was in an offside position and interfering given that he either jumped over or swung at the ball, and he didn't put it up until Liverpool were already off celebrating on the touchline and Tadic had run 10 yards towards him, which suggests SOMETHING happened other than the lino doing his job properly in the first place. Re: Mignolet save, good job they missed it, we scored almost straight after from the resultant goal kick. You could hear the "you don't know what you're doing" chants on the highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 TBF he improved immeasurably in 2nd half In the sense that he continued to be crap (gave us a pen for a Skrtel shirt pull when Pelle was doing exactly the same thing to Skrtel, didn't book Ward-Prowse for three very loose challenges where he more or less sort of might have got some of the ball) but a bit more in our favour, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 but a bit more in our favour, yes. The only way I will ever rate a ref;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 When he gave the penalty, why did he not send Skrtel off for being the last man denying a goal-scoring opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 When he gave the penalty, why did he not send Skrtel off for being the last man denying a goal-scoring opportunity? Pellè was not running towards goal. There is no such thing as 'last man', it's just 'denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity'. Was Skrtel booked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 March, 2016 Share Posted 21 March, 2016 Pellè was not running towards goal. There is no such thing as 'last man', it's just 'denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity'. Was Skrtel booked? Pelle was in the motion of having a shot on goal, which ended up going wide because of Skrtel's actions. So clearly it was an opportunity to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 Pelle was in the motion of having a shot on goal, which ended up going wide because of Skrtel's actions. So clearly it was an opportunity to score. An 'obvious' opportunity? One where he would have been more likely to score than not? Anyway, he wasn't running towards goal which is also a criterion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 (edited) Interesting headline to an article in the Telegraph stating that refs. are being hounded out of the game because of abuse from fans ...and players. IMHO the biggest problem nowadays is that the speed of some games is much faster that it was even 10 years ago, and it's simply not possible to expect refs. to take full responsibility for errors of judgment they have made made in good faith. FIFA really need to "get real" with games at the top end of the market and use the same methods that we all have access to ....mainly the TV action replay. One of the Prem. bottom four may end up bankrupted by a bad decision in a vital game that sends them down and they'll end up with a Championship budget next season. That idea was refused by Sepp Blatter who spoke about the authority of the ref. "being impugned", yet they already have contact with the other officials in making decisions. As seen in recent games, many off-the-ball incidents go unpunished - if the ref. is following the play and 30 yards away, but the camera sees them. AND...I don't buy the argument that such things as penalty decisions "even themselves out over the season" . Numerically? maybe, but its obvious that it's only important if it's a genuine game-changer /winning goal. Getting a penalty decision when you're losing 0-2 may not always change the result. Saturday's game will become legend...but had the game finished 2-2 instead, then Koeman's post-match comments about Lovren's foul on Long would have been all the more relevant. Most commentators I heard agreed it was a foul, and I asked myself if Fonte's recent red card was a worse foul than Lovren's? I read (somewhere) that they had a fourth official by the pitch side watching a monitor, but the idea was ditched because they were being harrassed by club officials. Goal-line cameras go some way towards getting a correct decision but the largest number of game-changing decisions get missed because the ref. can't be everywhere. The first viewing of the video on " Mane's red card " foul that never was" - quickly showed that it was purely an incident of colliding players and no foul was involved. If the good refs. continue to leave the game through bullying and abuse..we'll end up with a "generation of Clattenburgs" who dictate results ..according to their humour. Edited 22 March, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 When he gave the penalty, why did he not send Skrtel off for being the last man denying a goal-scoring opportunity? If Skrtel had fouled Pelle from behind...it might have been a red. Nevertheless - a goal scoring oportunity denied. I think it's harder to red card a goalie in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 If Skrtel had fouled Pelle from behind...it might have been a red. Nevertheless - a goal scoring oportunity denied. I think it's harder to red card a goalie in that situation. But the offended player has to be running towards goal. If Pellè had been fouled from behind it would still not have been a red card because his direction was not towards goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 March, 2016 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2016 But the offended player has to be running towards goal. If Pellè had been fouled from behind it would still not have been a red card because his direction was not towards goal. pelle was not running to the corner flag, ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 Interesting headline to an article in the Telegraph stating that refs. are being hounded out of the game because of abuse from fans ...and players. IMHO the biggest problem nowadays is that the speed of some games is much faster that it was even 10 years ago, and it's simply not possible to expect refs. to take full responsibility for errors of judgment they have made made in good faith. FIFA really need to "get real" with games at the top end of the market and use the same methods that we all have access to ....mainly the TV action replay. One of the Prem. bottom four may end up bankrupted by a bad decision in a vital game that sends them down and they'll end up with a Championship budget next season. That idea was refused by Sepp Blatter who spoke about the authority of the ref. "being impugned", yet they already have contact with the other officials in making decisions. As seen in recent games, many off-the-ball incidents go unpunished - if the ref. is following the play and 30 yards away, but the camera sees them. AND...I don't buy the argument that such things as penalty decisions "even themselves out over the season" . Numerically? maybe, but its obvious that it's only important if it's a genuine game-changer /winning goal. Getting a penalty decision when you're losing 0-2 may not always change the result. Saturday's game will become legend...but had the game finished 2-2 instead, then Koeman's post-match comments about Lovren's foul on Long would have been all the more relevant. Most commentators I heard agreed it was a foul, and I asked myself if Fonte's recent red card was a worse foul than Lovren's? I read (somewhere) that they had a fourth official by the pitch side watching a monitor, but the idea was ditched because they were being harrassed by club officials. Goal-line cameras go some way towards getting a correct decision but the largest number of game-changing decisions get missed because the ref. can't be everywhere. The first viewing of the video on " Mane's red card " foul that never was" - quickly showed that it was purely an incident of colliding players and no foul was involved. If the good refs. continue to leave the game through bullying and abuse..we'll end up with a "generation of Clattenburgs" who dictate results ..according to their humour. The article is mainly about referees at the lower level. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/03/21/exclusive-referees-live-in-fear-as-grass-roots-game-spirals-out/ For all the stick referees in the PL and FL get, it's unlikely a professional player will issue a death threat to him, or give him a kicking in the car park after the game. As tough as refs in the pro game might have it, it is nothing compared to the amateur game, although to be fair, all the PL refs would have come up through the ranks from grass roots football. The problems at the bottom of the game could be eliminated easily if the FA got hold of the top end of the game. Players - and we're not just talking about kids here - are influenced by what they see on TV. You don't have to be a deaf person to lip read a top pro calling a referee a f*****g c**t, and yet they invariably don't get booked or sent off for it even though the Laws of the game are quite clear cut when it comes to foul and abusive language. Having see a pro get away with swearing at ref on MOTD or whatever, a player will think he can use the same language in his Sunday League game the following morning. When he is correctly sent off by the referee he cannot understand why, and that's when the problems occur. I went to a Respect meeting several years ago when it was launched and some fatuous, suited wonk from the FA stood up and castigated all the local clubs and said we had to clean the game up from the bottom upwards. When I pointed out to him that it might be easier to do that if players at lower levels saw that equal effort was being made to clean up the game at the top level, he laughed, and said if referees in pro games applied and enforced the rules regarding foul and abusive language correctly, most PL games would be abandoned as teams would be down to fewer than seven players. I said that would be great as it would send out a real firm message, he told me I was being ridiculous and stupid. When the rest of the meeting agreed with me and shouted him down, he beat a hasty retreat. The problem with referees getting grief from adults at kids matches is even worse. The Telegraph article gives examples of rabid dads running on to the pitch to threaten refs who have given a decision against their son, and probably even worse are the screaming, keening caterwauling mothers who populate the touchlines. The FA's REspect campaign's solution to the problem of parents physically abusing referees was to issue each club with a reel of tape to put along the touchline which parents had to stand behind. As a deterrent, it's about as effective as a washing line stopping the Wehrmacht marching into Poland at the start of WWII. If the FA are serious about halting the drain of referees from the grassroots level, they would make it compulsory that every club in the country had to put at least one player, official or club member through a training course to gain a qualified referee's badge. It would not be difficult to do as the FA introduced a similar rule years ago insisting that every club has at least one person who had been on some sort of first aid course. Most grassroots level leagues have a rule that if a referee is not allocated to a game, the home team has to provide somebody to do it. Instead of an unwilling herbert in a tracksuit who never moves out of the centre circle, it would mean a club has a qualified referee to officiate. You would hope that any player/club official who had to step in would realise how much stick and abuse he will take, and would transfer that to the other players in his club. We can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 But the offended player has to be running towards goal. If Pellè had been fouled from behind it would still not have been a red card because his direction was not towards goal. I do appreciate your professional experience in this issue, but it was surely clear that he was running towards goal - and not away from it . Given the chance ...he would likely have taken shot towards goal from an angle.... For My Info.... Do the rules specify that he has to shoot from in front of the goal?....and if he were fouled inside the area - but not in front of goal doesn't that not count? ......do you mean that you wouldn't have given a penalty in that situation?......also what about the Long / Lovren tussle ...penalty or no ? No intended sarcasm from me, I'm (vainly) trying to understand a referee's motivation for giving / not giving penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 The article is mainly about referees at the lower level. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/03/21/exclusive-referees-live-in-fear-as-grass-roots-game-spirals-out/ I went to a Respect meeting several years ago when it was launched and some fatuous, suited wonk from the FA stood up and castigated all the local clubs and said we had to clean the game up from the bottom upwards. When I pointed out to him that it might be easier to do that if players at lower levels saw that equal effort was being made to clean up the game at the top level, he laughed, and said if referees in pro games applied and enforced the rules regarding foul and abusive language correctly, most PL games would be abandoned as teams would be down to fewer than seven players. I said that would be great as it would send out a real firm message, he told me I was being ridiculous and stupid. When the rest of the meeting agreed with me and shouted him down, he beat a hasty retreat. It's pity that Messers Blatter and Platini weren't a bit closer to " the grass roots " and they'd have seen more problems than that. it's weirdly Orwellian in that ...." everyone is (regarded) as equal, but some are (clearly) more equal that the rest. I'd love to have been there..btw. but wouldn't have known whether to laugh ..or cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 I do appreciate your professional experience in this issue, but it was surely clear that he was running towards goal - and not away from it . Given the chance ...he would likely have taken shot towards goal from an angle.... For My Info.... Do the rules specify that he has to shoot from in front of the goal?....and if he were fouled inside the area - but not in front of goal doesn't that not count? ......do you mean that you wouldn't have given a penalty in that situation?......also what about the Long / Lovren tussle ...penalty or no ? No intended sarcasm from me, I'm (vainly) trying to understand a referee's motivation for giving / not giving penalties. No, he wasn't 'moving towards the player's goal'. He may not have been running away from it but he would certainly have ended up over the goal line well to the side of it. He doesn't have to shoot or be directly in front of the goal but he has to me moving towards it. If he is fouled inside the area it doesn't matter where but the direction of movement is important. I was not surprised that Long was not awarded a penalty. I thought that he had stepped across Lovren and was going down very early, almost before he had been touched. In my opinion there was a large element of 'looking for it'. I think he took the wrong decision and had a great opportunity to either score himself or set up Pelle. Thanks for the compliment but I was never a full professional, I only refereed at local level but I did get paid for my troubles. At referees meetings we regularly had talks from top level referees and learnt a lot from them. These referees gave did this in their own time which was much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 It's pity that Messers Blatter and Platini weren't a bit closer to " the grass roots " and they'd have seen more problems than that. it's weirdly Orwellian in that ...." everyone is (regarded) as equal, but some are (clearly) more equal that the rest. I'd love to have been there..btw. but wouldn't have known whether to laugh ..or cry. It was a comm complaint amongst referees at my level. The kids would see all the Premier League stars mouthing off at the referees and thought that they could do the same to us. With kids' football the parents are the worst culprits. They seem to think that it's fair game to go mouthing of at the referees all the time and all part of the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 It was a comm complaint amongst referees at my level. The kids would see all the Premier League stars mouthing off at the referees and thought that they could do the same to us. With kids' football the parents are the worst culprits. They seem to think that it's fair game to go mouthing of at the referees all the time and all part of the fun. Dont know why anybody would want to be a ref . I have a friend who has son who refs to quite a high standard and when he goes to matches where he is in charge the abuse Dan receives is terrible and he is only doing his best and knows football inside out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 Interesting headline to an article in the Telegraph stating that refs. are being hounded out of the game because of abuse from fans ...and players. IMHO the biggest problem nowadays is that the speed of some games is much faster that it was even 10 years ago, and it's simply not possible to expect refs. to take full responsibility for errors of judgment they have made made in good faith. FIFA really need to "get real" with games at the top end of the market and use the same methods that we all have access to ....mainly the TV action replay. One of the Prem. bottom four may end up bankrupted by a bad decision in a vital game that sends them down and they'll end up with a Championship budget next season. That idea was refused by Sepp Blatter who spoke about the authority of the ref. "being impugned", yet they already have contact with the other officials in making decisions. As seen in recent games, many off-the-ball incidents go unpunished - if the ref. is following the play and 30 yards away, but the camera sees them. AND...I don't buy the argument that such things as penalty decisions "even themselves out over the season" . Numerically? maybe, but its obvious that it's only important if it's a genuine game-changer /winning goal. Getting a penalty decision when you're losing 0-2 may not always change the result. Saturday's game will become legend...but had the game finished 2-2 instead, then Koeman's post-match comments about Lovren's foul on Long would have been all the more relevant. Most commentators I heard agreed it was a foul, and I asked myself if Fonte's recent red card was a worse foul than Lovren's? I read (somewhere) that they had a fourth official by the pitch side watching a monitor, but the idea was ditched because they were being harrassed by club officials. Goal-line cameras go some way towards getting a correct decision but the largest number of game-changing decisions get missed because the ref. can't be everywhere. The first viewing of the video on " Mane's red card " foul that never was" - quickly showed that it was purely an incident of colliding players and no foul was involved. If the good refs. continue to leave the game through bullying and abuse..we'll end up with a "generation of Clattenburgs" who dictate results ..according to their humour. The article was primarily concerned with referees in local Youth and amateur games where there is no technology and linesmen are drawn from the competing clubs. Some of the tales that they told make me wonder why anyone would become a referee at the lowest levels. Apparently the turnover is about 6-8k a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 The article was primarily concerned with referees in local Youth and amateur games where there is no technology and linesmen are drawn from the competing clubs. Some of the tales that they told make me wonder why anyone would become a referee at the lowest levels. Apparently the turnover is about 6-8k a year Is that £££ or people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 Is that £££ or people? That is the churn of referees who leave the game every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 I do appreciate your professional experience in this issue, but it was surely clear that he was running towards goal - and not away from it . David, Whitey is completely correct with his assessment of why there was no red card (not that he needs me to tell him that, he is a far more experienced referee than I ever was). I learned a lot from this FIFA document regarding Fouls and Misconduct (Law 12). The last three slides in particular explain how to decide whether an "obvious goal scoring opportunity" has or has not occurred. The critical issue seems to be whether the player is running towards the goal. On Sunday Pelle was wide right of the goal and running directly towards the goal line following the threaded pass by Davis. He wasn't running towards goal, neither was he running away from the goal. He was in line with the limit of the goal area which if I recall correctly is 6 yards (5.5m) outside of the goal post. He would have had to have been more than 6 yards to his left for this to be considered an "obvious goal-scoring opportunity". Of course we all know that a goal can be scored from this position, but the word "obvious" is important and the advice given to referees clarifies this. Here's the presentation document I referred to: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/7.%20law%2012_miscounduct_557.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 The article is mainly about referees at the lower level. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/03/21/exclusive-referees-live-in-fear-as-grass-roots-game-spirals-out/ For all the stick referees in the PL and FL get, it's unlikely a professional player will issue a death threat to him, or give him a kicking in the car park after the game. with mention of car park... I recall a story from ...many years ago, when a ref. awarded a late penalty against the home side, and afterwards found his car in the car park...without wheels ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 David, Whitey is completely correct with his assessment of why there was no red card (not that he needs me to tell him that, he is a far more experienced referee than I ever was). I learned a lot from this FIFA document regarding Fouls and Misconduct (Law 12). The last three slides in particular explain how to decide whether an "obvious goal scoring opportunity" has or has not occurred. The critical issue seems to be whether the player is running towards the goal. On Sunday Pelle was wide right of the goal and running directly towards the goal line following the threaded pass by Davis. He wasn't running towards goal, neither was he running away from the goal. He was in line with the limit of the goal area which if I recall correctly is 6 yards (5.5m) outside of the goal post. He would have had to have been more than 6 yards to his left for this to be considered an "obvious goal-scoring opportunity". Of course we all know that a goal can be scored from this position, but the word "obvious" is important and the advice given to referees clarifies this. Here's the presentation document I referred to: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/7.%20law%2012_miscounduct_557.pdf Vectis...Thanks to you ..and Whitey for the explanation - very interesting,I understand that the word obvious ....is the key, but having seen so many goals scored from acute angles, I feel it is not the complete answer. I'm sure we've all seen Pelle, Long...and indeed Mane scoring from such tight angles on several occasions. To suggest that someone has to be within the limits of the goal area seems to be rather unfair...as we've all seen players shoot over the bar from 6 yards ...and less. You (both) seem to be suggesting that neither Long or Pelle's were penalties !...but both were fouled by the defender....if not penalties...what would you have given? Also ..IF.. as you seem to be suggesting ....Long was anticipating the foul coming, then that's surely not illegal..if he doesn't dive...which seems doubtful. Long couldn't have expected to run on goal without being tackled ..which he was....and Lovren made a last ditch effort to stop him, and fouled him in so-doing. If it had been someone slower than Long.....he would also have been caught ..and fouled. I read a recent stat. that Mane was the 3rd MOST FOULED player in the Prem..I think many people can see why, but to my eye, he wins feven fewer free kicks because he has such a stupid way of falling to the ground, and it might even look like a dive. If he were diving he'd be booked far more often, but he isn't. How do you judge ..a dive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 Vectis...Thanks to you ..and Whitey for the explanation - very interesting,I understand that the word obvious ....is the key, but having seen so many goals scored from acute angles, I feel it is not the complete answer. I'm sure we've all seen Pelle, Long...and indeed Mane scoring from such tight angles on several occasions. To suggest that someone has to be within the limits of the goal area seems to be rather unfair...as we've all seen players shoot over the bar from 6 yards ...and less. You (both) seem to be suggesting that neither Long or Pelle's were penalties !...but both were fouled by the defender....if not penalties...what would you have given? Also ..IF.. as you seem to be suggesting ....Long was anticipating the foul coming, then that's surely not illegal..if he doesn't dive...which seems doubtful. Long couldn't have expected to run on goal without being tackled ..which he was....and Lovren made a last ditch effort to stop him, and fouled him in so-doing. If it had been someone slower than Long.....he would also have been caught ..and fouled. I read a recent stat. that Mane was the 3rd MOST FOULED player in the Prem..I think many people can see why, but to my eye, he wins feven fewer free kicks because he has such a stupid way of falling to the ground, and it might even look like a dive. If he were diving he'd be booked far more often, but he isn't. How do you judge ..a dive? Long wasn't actually tackled, Lovren doesn't even break his stride but does put his hands out in front when Long suddenly appears there. I suspect that it was just considered a tangle of legs. Pelle was definitely fouled for the penalty because Skrtel was pulling the back of his shirt (holding) which would be a direct free kick. What the ref couldn't see was that Pelle was also holding the front of Skrtel's shirt. Here's everyone's favourite ex-referee Graham Poll about shirt pulling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3503453/GRAHAM-POLL-Referees-grips-shirt-pulling-penalty-area-NOW.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 Vectis...Thanks to you ..and Whitey for the explanation - very interesting,I understand that the word obvious ....is the key, but having seen so many goals scored from acute angles, I feel it is not the complete answer. I'm sure we've all seen Pelle, Long.. I'm certainly not suggesting that Pelle's penalty wasn't a penalty (and I don't think Whitey was either, the discussion was why Skrtel wasn't red-carded). The point about the "obvious goal scoring opportunity" was whether it deserved a red card or not. That was what the FIFA presentation was specifically addressing, guess you didn't really read it. You've also missed the point about "obvious goal scoring opportunity it seems. The point is that FIFA (and the FA) have clarified what is and is not "obvious". The word "obvious" is not really the best word to use. As I said we have all seen players score from these angles, but in terms of whether a red card can be given, it is defined as a player running toward goal, nothing more or less. That makes it as close to being a black and white decision as is possible. Pelle or anyone else scoring from difficult angle is a skill, and not "obvious", it would be unlikely for instance that I could score from such an angle* I also think that the Long incident was a clear penalty (but again not a red card). *to be fair I did once score from a similar position with the ball being on the goal line, but the referee disallowed it because he believed the opposition manager, who happened to be leaning against the other goalpost chatting to the keeper who was smoking a ciggy at the time, who told him the ball had crossed the goal line first. But that's my issue and nothing to do with FIFA, but it has stuck with me for over 40 years, my only goal for my village team scored on my debut and it was disallowed, and I was cautioned for arguing, and subbed at half-time. The world is so unfair I guess me doing what was considered highly unlikely is a perfect example of how this is not considered an "obvious goal scoring opportunity" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 March, 2016 Share Posted 22 March, 2016 I do appreciate your candour Gentlemen, although I suspect, like many other fans we think we know what "deserves " to be a penalty. What I seemingly failed to make clear was that an obvious (for the want of another word) goal-scoring chance isn't always that " obvious".....because even if the player is inside the box and facing goal..... there is no guarantee that he will " obviously " score... ..although what annoys me the most.... is the award of a penalty when a player is fouled half-a-yard inside the box....perhaps near the goal line - with no "obvious" chance of scoring ...in a hundred years.. I guess I'll have to leave it there....until the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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