Miliband's father

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

it would be naive to believe that the essence of the story will be forgotten, that the Milliband boys' father was an extreme leftie ...

 

Well Wes, I would like to think that the clear majority of the British public are a sensible enough bunch not to hold the politics of a long dead father against his son. What I will remember about this story is not some sinister suspicion re Ed Miliband's closet attempt to impose a hard line communist regime on a unsuspecting country, but rather a crass attempt to smear the leader of the Labour Party by the Daily Mail.

 

So no change there then.

[buctootim]

But when all the furore over the Mail's crass handling of this affair has died down, it would be naive to believe that the essence of the story will be forgotten, that the Milliband boys' father was an extreme leftie and regardless of how far they try to distance themselves from his political ideology, the suspicion will persist that some of it will have been indoctrinated into them,

 

I think you're almost alone in thinking that. Most people know children make their own way in the world with their own beliefs - as Bexy noted Ken Livingstone talking about his conservative parents. The impression this affair has created in most peoples minds is that the Tories standard bearer - and by association the tories themselves - is nasty, mean and dishonest - exactly the kind of thing that Cameron has been trying to distance himself from.

[trousers]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9040771/here-we-go-again-say-one-word-against-an-icon-of-the-left-and-the-phone-wont-stop-ringing/

 

Ring, ring goes the telephone every minute God sends. Sometimes I pick it up and say hello, sometimes I don’t. I know who is calling, anyway. It is one or another media representative from the bien-pensant absolutist liberal left, and they are all in a dither about a man called Ralph Miliband, of whom they had probably never heard until a few hours ago, and whom they have most certainly not read. Their sense of excitement, these youngish callers from a multiplicity of BBC news stations and, of course, Channel 4 News, is palpable; it fizzes and crackles down the line, their outrage and their delight at possibly finding someone who might add to their outrage, perhaps cube their outrage. Unless it’s just the jackdaws hacking away at the telephone lines again. It could be that.

 

The phone only ever rings like that when I’ve made a transgression against the sensibilities of these relentlessly busy people by saying something with which they disagree. Then all hell is let loose and my wife wanders into my room with a terribly weary expression on her face and says, ‘Why can’t you just keep your bloody mouth shut for once, you imbecile?’ and slams the door. Quite often the provisional wing of the bien-pensants gets involved, the Press Complaints Commission. But only when it’s the liberals who have been transgressed.

The odd thing is, it never, ever happens when I have a go at the right, no matter how recklessly, personally or unpleasantly. Sometimes when I’ve been spiteful about the crop of smug and inept public-school boys who currently run this country, I sort of hope that the phone will start its incessant ringing, because it would make a nice change. But it never does. I could write an article insisting that David Cameron was created from the frozen semen of Adolf Hitler by Soviet scientists and that he enjoyed nightly intercourse with feral goats — and the Beeb and Channel 4 wouldn’t give a monkey’s. ‘He’s probably right,’ they’d all be saying to themselves, ‘for once.’ There would be no calls for sackings, or prosecutions. The Guardian Comment is Free website would be utterly uninterested.

If George Osborne’s dad was as far to the right as Ralph Miliband was to the left, and this fact was reported (having read interviews with Osborne’s father, this might not be far from the truth), nobody would howl in anger that this was a smear, would they? The BBC and Channel 4 News would, instead, leap in and kick the living daylights out of Osborne Sr and think themselves entirely justified in so doing. Ralph Miliband may have been a lovely dad, but he was a damaging and unjustly revered influence. It should not be a crime to say as much.

Edited 3 October, 2013 by trousers

[buctootim]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9040771/here-we-go-again-say-one-word-against-an-icon-of-the-left-and-the-phone-wont-stop-ringing/

 

That's a good article. The difference is that Liddle said Miliband senior's economic and political views were wrong, which they were, and that he wasn't a towering figure in literature, which he wasn't. Thats not the point. Lying about him in order to try to discredit his son is a different ball game. Thats the point.

 

The real litmus test of this will be how long Paul Dacre survives as editor. Rothermere won't sack him right away for appearances sake, but he will go. About 3-6 months imo.

Edited 3 October, 2013 by buctootim

[alpine_saint]

If Millipede cannot hack the harsh glare of media scrutiny, he's in the wrong job.

 

For me the most annoying aspects of the Daily Mail currently are the stupid badly written scripts that slow the website down so much that I could read the news item quicker if I walked back to the UK first, and the fact that most of the news items are from America and you are left scratching your head wondering "who the f**k is that?"

[CB Fry]

That's a good article. The difference is that Liddle said Miliband senior's economic and political views were wrong, which they were, and that he wasn't a towering figure in literature, which he wasn't. Thats not the point. Lying about him in order to try to discredit his son is a different ball game. Thats the point.

 

The real litmus test of this will be how long Paul Dacre survives as editor. Rothermere won't sack him right away for appearances sake, but he will go. About 3-6 months imo.

 

Dacre's just signed a new contract. He won't go on this. It's pretty trivial. It's not phone hacking.

[solentstars]

That's a good article. The difference is that Liddle said Miliband senior's economic and political views were wrong, which they were, and that he wasn't a towering figure in literature, which he wasn't. Thats not the point. Lying about him in order to try to discredit his son is a different ball game. Thats the point.

 

The real litmus test of this will be how long Paul Dacre survives as editor. Rothermere won't sack him right away for appearances sake, but he will go. About 3-6 months imo.

it was.a hatchet job by a sad hate mag and and why some people link it to a former prime minister who.was a elected politician and is fair target for criticism is beyond me but then some of the members were staunch storm troopers of the nasty party thank god a lot have gone over to ukip.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[solentstars]

If Millipede cannot hack the harsh glare of media scrutiny, he's in the wrong job.

 

For me the most annoying aspects of the Daily Mail currently are the stupid badly written scripts that slow the website down so much that I could read the news item quicker if I walked back to the UK first, and the fact that most of the news items are from America and you are left scratching your head wondering "who the f**k is that?"

how can he it I thought the guy was dead or are you expecting him to rise from the grave

 

 

 

:)Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[buctootim]

It's pretty trivial. It's not phone hacking.

 

On a business level its worse than that. He lost the ability to judge the mood of the public.

[alpine_saint]

how can he it I thought the guy was dead or are you expecting him to rise from the grave

 

 

Huh ?

 

I am talking about Ed, not Ralph; Ed is clearly orchestrating a hysterical media backlash because he doesnt like his true colours and the background to them being analysed.

[CB Fry]

On a business level its worse than that. He lost the ability to judge the mood of the public.

 

Seriously? This is a westminster/media bubble story if ever there was.

 

Twitter screeching is not the mood of the public.

 

I'm not defending the Mail but it just isn't that big. Forgotten by next week.

[buctootim]

Huh ?

 

I am talking about Ed, not Ralph; Ed is clearly orchestrating a hysterical media backlash because he doesnt like his true colours and the background to them being analysed.

 

Surely if you idea of politics and take on the world being handed down from father to son were true Ed and David would hold the same views and your children wouldn't want to live in Britain.

[buctootim]

Seriously? This is a westminster/media bubble story if ever there was.

 

Twitter screeching is not the mood of the public.

 

I'm not defending the Mail but it just isn't that big. Forgotten by next week.

 

Not so sure, you should read the comments after the story on the Mails own site. Having said that, part of the problem is that papers do not rely on people buying copies anymore, its all about traffic to the website - whether supportive or not.

[jjsaint]

Nicola Cortese.

Stu Francis.

Dame Ellen MacArthur.

Roald Dahl.

Nigella.

 

Roald Dahl was a disgustingly rabid anti-Semite.

[Wes Tender]

I think you're almost alone in thinking that. Most people know children make their own way in the world with their own beliefs - as Bexy noted Ken Livingstone talking about his conservative parents. The impression this affair has created in most peoples minds is that the Tories standard bearer - and by association the tories themselves - is nasty, mean and dishonest - exactly the kind of thing that Cameron has been trying to distance himself from.

 

Really? It must be just me and Rod Liddle then. Unless you think that when he said "Ralph Miliband may have been a lovely dad, but he was a damaging and unjustly revered influence" he must have been talking of his love of Spurs or Polish foodstuffs or Jewish religious beliefs or something else not to do with politics.

 

Chapel End Charlie: Well Wes, I would like to think that the clear majority of the British public are a sensible enough bunch not to hold the politics of a long dead father against his son. What I will remember about this story is not some sinister suspicion re Ed Miliband's closet attempt to impose a hard line communist regime on a unsuspecting country, but rather a crass attempt to smear the leader of the Labour Party by the Daily Mail.

 

So you'll remember the article by the Mail, but overlook the essence of what it was about? You give more credit to the electorate than I do I'm afraid, when there are so many readers of the journalistic equivalents of comics that the Red Tops are. If there was not going to be any political fallout longer term from this debacle, then what would have been the point of it? I suspect that the decision was taken against a background of the ends justifying the means.

 

Is the Daily Mail the Tory standard bearer? Then the Mirror must be the standard bearer for Labour then, associating Labour in the minds of the electorate as the party of envy and hypocrisy and of course dishonesty also, which is not the exclusive preserve of the Tories. But did Milliband distance himself from the disgraceful article in the Mirror when Thatcher died? I don't recall it.

 

Amusing that just because Red Ken Livingstone's parents were Conservatives, this is proof positive that the Milliband boys must have been totally oblivious towards the opinions of their late father. I'd say that the exception proves the rule and that the majority of those in politics have followed the political leanings of their parents. Just to counter with an example, Hilary Benn followed his dad Wedgie, who in turn followed his father, all Labour MPs

 

Just to illustrate how events like this are recalled years, even decades later, although I will no doubt be labelled as untypical of the electorate, I can remember lots of stuff about Labour. Harold Wilson telling us that the pound in our pocket was not devalued. The Welsh windbag Kinnock telling the Labour pre-election rally to go home and prepare for government. Sunny Jim Callaghan asking "what crisis" when he returned from his Caribbean holiday during the Winter of Discontent. The Trade Union bosses' beer and sandwiches at Number 10. Maybe this little episode won't have the legs of those, but even if it is called to mind as a lingering doubt about Milliband's Labour when people next enter the ballot box, it will have served its intended purpose.

[alpine_saint]

Surely if you idea of politics and take on the world being handed down from father to son were true Ed and David would hold the same views and your children wouldn't want to live in Britain.

 

Actually, Ralfie stands in the dock for hating Britian, its culture, its way of life and wanting to effect radical change, not for not wanting to live in Britain....

 

Two entirely different things, as further illustrated by the present wave of Islamic fundamentalism in the UK.

[alpine_saint]

Seriously? This is a westminster/media bubble story if ever there was.

 

Twitter screeching is not the mood of the public.

 

I'm not defending the Mail but it just isn't that big. Forgotten by next week.

 

This. A bubble blown by a party desperate to divert attention from the Damien McBride antics, ably supported by leftie acolytes throughout the land, it has to be said. I reckon even Goebbels would have admired this propoganda operation.

[buctootim]

Actually, Ralfie stands in the dock for hating Britian, its culture, its way of life and wanting to effect radical change, not for not wanting to live in Britain....

 

...whilst your two elder children do want to live here. All that demonstrates is that, emphatically what a parent believes has little to do with what their offspring believe - and that was the whole premise of the Mail article (along with Miliband senior hating Britain, which was also disproved).

[aintforever]

Actually, Ralfie stands in the dock for hating Britian, its culture, its way of life and wanting to effect radical change, not for not wanting to live in Britain....

 

Two entirely different things, as further illustrated by the present wave of Islamic fundamentalism in the UK.

 

He doesn't stand in the dock for anything, he had is own political views and there is nothing wrong with that even if the Mail doesn't agree with them.

 

The Mail making stuff up about a dead relative to attack Milliband is just low.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Really? It must be just me and Rod Liddle then. Unless you think that when he said "Ralph Miliband may have been a lovely dad, but he was a damaging and unjustly revered influence" he must have been talking of his love of Spurs or Polish foodstuffs or Jewish religious beliefs or something else not to do with politics.

 

 

 

So you'll remember the article by the Mail, but overlook the essence of what it was about? You give more credit to the electorate than I do I'm afraid, when there are so many readers of the journalistic equivalents of comics that the Red Tops are. If there was not going to be any political fallout longer term from this debacle, then what would have been the point of it? I suspect that the decision was taken against a background of the ends justifying the means.

 

Is the Daily Mail the Tory standard bearer? Then the Mirror must be the standard bearer for Labour then, associating Labour in the minds of the electorate as the party of envy and hypocrisy and of course dishonesty also, which is not the exclusive preserve of the Tories. But did Milliband distance himself from the disgraceful article in the Mirror when Thatcher died? I don't recall it.

 

Amusing that just because Red Ken Livingstone's parents were Conservatives, this is proof positive that the Milliband boys must have been totally oblivious towards the opinions of their late father. I'd say that the exception proves the rule and that the majority of those in politics have followed the political leanings of their parents. Just to counter with an example, Hilary Benn followed his dad Wedgie, who in turn followed his father, all Labour MPs

 

Just to illustrate how events like this are recalled years, even decades later, although I will no doubt be labelled as untypical of the electorate, I can remember lots of stuff about Labour. Harold Wilson telling us that the pound in our pocket was not devalued. The Welsh windbag Kinnock telling the Labour pre-election rally to go home and prepare for government. Sunny Jim Callaghan asking "what crisis" when he returned from his Caribbean holiday during the Winter of Discontent. The Trade Union bosses' beer and sandwiches at Number 10. Maybe this little episode won't have the legs of those, but even if it is called to mind as a lingering doubt about Milliband's Labour when people next enter the ballot box, it will have served its intended purpose.

 

I disagree.

 

Do you remember the story before the last General Election when Gordon Brown wrote a handwritten note to the parents of a dead soldier and made a spelling mistake? Well the right wing press made a big play of it hoping to damage the PM as you would expect, but the British public refused to jump on that particular bandwagon because it was a blatantly unfair attack on Brown - who is dyslexic of course.

 

You obviously hold a different more cynical view of our people, but I think the British have an innate sense of fairness that on occasion can override the message the gutter press are trying to sell them. It'll be interesting to see the next set of opinion polls - I suspect this nonsense will have done Ed Miliband no harm at all.

Edited 3 October, 2013 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Wes Tender]

I disagree.

 

Do you remember the story before the last General Election when Gordon Brown wrote a handwritten note to the parents of a dead soldier and made a spelling mistake? Well the right wing press made a big play of it hoping to damage the PM as you would expect, but the British public refused to jump on that particular bandwagon because it was a blatantly unfair attack on Brown - who is dyslexic of course.

 

You obviously hold a different more cynical view of our people, but I think the British have an innate sense of fairness that on occasion can override the message the gutter press are trying to sell them. It'll be interesting to see the next set of opinion polls - I suspect this nonsense will have done Ed Miliband no harm at all.

 

You have just supported my assertion that this little episode will not be forgotten into the future, as you yourself have given anecdotal evidence of arguably a far more trivial event from a few years back. Whilst we're reminiscing about that last election, you've reminded me of the derogatory remarks that Brown made about a Labour party worker he met, when he was oblivious to the fact that every word could be heard and was recorded. Were the press within their rights to report that? Or would you label it as a blatant attempt by the gutter press to discredit him?

[Viking Warrior]

Honestly Chapel

 

The point is we are a free country , So Millipede senior was allowed to spout of marxist views, and no doubt influenced alot of people. how much input did the likes of him indoctrinate the anarchists of his day. Labour are all for having free speech providing its not the thoughts of Daily Mail or other extreme right wing views. as they brought in various laws to curtail their activities. mean while the marxist socialist and extreme left wing are free to spout their ideologies openly

Have they nabbed things like the socialist worker newspapers , Millitant paperss. no bu these groups are quick to get the equivilent right wing crap banned

 

Millipede grow a pair

 

PS Damien McBride has done more damage to Millipede and labour than the mail article

[Viking Warrior]

Milipede is being bloody stupid now

He would have been better to say nothing. Unless the Mail were going to publish another article. then the ballless millipede is the one who has put his wider family in the public eye. not the mail . I dont think anyone would have been awware who Prof Keen was related to. Now the world knows thanks to milipedes rant and the BBC reporting the following :-

 

Breaking News . In his letter the Labour leader claimed a Mail on Sunday reporter attended uninvited a memorial event for his uncle in Guy's Hospital on Wednesday.

 

Mr Miliband says relatives told him they had been approached for views on "the Daily Mail's description of my father as someone who 'hated Britain'."

 

The Daily Mail stands by its reporting.

 

In his letter Mr Miliband said the memorial event for Professor Harry Keen was attended by family, close friends and colleagues.

 

"The Editor of the Mail on Sunday has since confirmed to my office that a journalist from his newspaper did indeed attend the memorial uninvited with the intention of seeking information for publication this weekend.

 

"My wider family, who are not in public life, feel understandably appalled and shocked that this can have happened.

 

"Sending a reporter to my late uncle's memorial crosses a line of common decency. I believe it a symptom of the culture and practices of both the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

This. A bubble blown by a party desperate to divert attention from the Damien McBride antics, ably supported by leftie acolytes throughout the land, it has to be said. I reckon even Goebbels would have admired this propoganda operation.

 

Getting close to Godwin's Law there.

[trousers]

[Wes Tender]

 

Whoa! And all that hypocritical hot air about how underhand it was of the Mail to publish a photo of the late dead Red Ralph's grave.

[buctootim]

 

Thats as peurile as the follow up Mail article today which has been excoriated by its readers - but you knew that.

[buctootim]

Millipede senior was allowed to spout of marxist views, and no doubt influenced alot of people. how much input did the likes of him indoctrinate the anarchists of his day.

 

You're a bit confused aren't you.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Looks like the home counties housewives on here are going to have more reason to get their knickers twisted with the news that this story won't go away. Now we find out the Mail on Sunday gatecrashed a private memorial service to quiz Miliband's relatives about the furore.

 

The MoS's editor has apologised, staff have been suspended and Lord Roethermere is apparenty to write a letter to Miliband. But of course there will still be some on here saying that there is nothing wrong with intruding on a private memorial service.

 

Anyway whichever way you look at it this is great news for Labour. More coverage diverted from the Tories, more sympathy for Miliband and future attacks on Miliband by the Mail will have to be tempered otherwise it comes across as more bullying.

[buctootim]

Now we find out the Mail on Sunday gatecrashed a private memorial service to quiz Miliband's relatives about the furore.

 

The MoS's editor has apologised, staff have been suspended and Lord Roethermere is apparenty to write a letter to Miliband. But of course there will still be some on here saying that there is nothing wrong with intruding on a private memorial service.

 

They shouldnt have issued invitations if they didnt want people to come

Britain is a free country, despite what Miliband is trying to do to it.

You have to expect attention if you're in a famous family

The dead mans wife's tears were all put on. Goebbals would have been proud of that etc etc blah blah.

 

No morals, no conscience, no values.

Edited 3 October, 2013 by buctootim

[Wes Tender]

You're a bit confused aren't you.

 

Why? It is a reasonable point. If somebody as intellectually capable as Red Ralph supposedly was, had mild socialist leanings at 15 turned into full-blooded Marxism by Harold Laski at the LSE, then why wouldn't it be possible for others to be indoctrinated by their lefty lecturers, or for him to in turn indoctrinate his pupils when he was a lecturer himself?

[buctootim]

Why? It is a reasonable point. If somebody as intellectually capable as Red Ralph supposedly was, had mild socialist leanings at 15 turned into full-blooded Marxism by Harold Laski at the LSE, then why wouldn't it be possible for others to be indoctrinated by their lefty lecturers, or for him to in turn indoctrinate his pupils when he was a lecturer himself?

 

Thanks Wes. That's two who don't know the difference between the New Left and anarchism but feel qualified to talk politics.

[Wes Tender]

Thanks Wes. That's two who don't know the difference between the New Left and anarchism but feel qualified to talk politics.

 

So you don't see any connection between the teachings of Marxism and the possibility that Anarchism could ensue from the growing frustration that it could not be achieved by normal means and that an attempted revolution might result?

 

How are you defining politics? If one of the Oxford definitions is "a particular set of political beliefs or principles" am I not entitled to hold my own beliefs and to discuss them without other qualification than having lived through the political landscape of the past 55 years that I was old enough to have some cognisance of what was going on around me?

[buctootim]

Do any of these pictures make Thatcher a paedophile, orchestrator of the disappeared or cause of the Egyptian civil war?

[Lord Duckhunter]

That's a good article. The difference is that Liddle said Miliband senior's economic and political views were wrong, which they were, and that he wasn't a towering figure in literature, which he wasn't. Thats not the point. Lying about him in order to try to discredit his son is a different ball game. Thats the point.

 

QUOTE]

 

Liddle is far and away one of the most amusing and interesting opinion writers in the media today, whether writing about football or life in general.

 

The point you make about lying is an interesting one. The Mail have drawn the conclusion that because of his hatred of certain British institutions he must have hated Britain. Is this an outright lie, or a badly thought through analysis? I don't agree with their train of thought , but I wouldn't call it lying. Why didn't they go after Straw bearing in mind his father's war past?

[trousers]

[buctootim]

So you don't see any connection between the teachings of Marxism and the possibility that Anarchism could ensue from the growing frustration that it could not be achieved by normal means and that an attempted revolution might result?

 

How are you defining politics? If one of the Oxford definitions is "a particular set of political beliefs or principles" am I not entitled to hold my own beliefs and to discuss them without other qualification than having lived through the political landscape of the past 55 years that I was old enough to have some cognisance of what was going on around me?

 

Wes, it doesnt look as you even understand what you're writing, its jibberish. Its like asking do I not see any connection between the teaching of totally unregulated free market economics leading to frustration it cant be achieved by normal means and people turning to anarchy and revolution instead.

 

Just fyi anarchism is about rejecting governments, hierachy and authority. Marxism is about enforcing social equality. They're the antithesis of each other

Edited 3 October, 2013 by buctootim

[buctootim]

quite, people posting up pictures of politicians with people is meaningless - especially when its just somebodies mum taking a picture.

[buctootim]

The point you make about lying is an interesting one. The Mail have drawn the conclusion that because of his hatred of certain British institutions he must have hated Britain. Is this an outright lie, or a badly thought through analysis? I don't agree with their train of thought , but I wouldn't call it lying. Why didn't they go after Straw bearing in mind his father's war past?

 

Deliberate or selective inaccuracy instead then? I don't think it was a flawed analysis honestly made. There are lots of things I dislike about Britain too but it would be a lie / deliberate selective inaccuracy to say I hated Britain - I love it and have no wish to live anywhere else, regardless of who is in government.

 

I don't know anything about Straw's fathers war past, but I assume they didnt go after him because it was unfair - he wasnt a public figure and it wasnt Straw's fault. By contrast he was roundly criticised for many of his own actions and beliefs.

Edited 3 October, 2013 by buctootim

[solentstars]

quite, people posting up pictures of politicians with people is meaningless - especially when its just somebodies mum taking a picture.

Maggie's love child Blair

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

 

**** with a messiah complex gets pally with Gaddafi. This is relevant how?

[solentstars]

Looks like the home counties housewives on here are going to have more reason to get their knickers twisted with the news that this story won't go away. Now we find out the Mail on Sunday gatecrashed a private memorial service to quiz Miliband's relatives about the furore.

 

The MoS's editor has apologised, staff have been suspended and Lord Roethermere is apparenty to write a letter to Miliband. But of course there will still be some on here saying that there is nothing wrong with intruding on a private memorial service.

 

Anyway whichever way you look at it this is great news for Labour. More coverage diverted from the Tories, more sympathy for Miliband and future attacks on Miliband by the Mail will have to be tempered otherwise it comes across as more bullying.

I Agree it's just making the mail look more stupid despite the lunatic fringe which defend a story of a dead guy but there are a lot of decent Tories who know this is out of order.so some idiots think it's all right to attend a family funeral without.a invite says more about how low there morals go.it's just making milband look better in the public's mind.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Edited 3 October, 2013 by solentstars

[DuncanRG]

We are not talking about free speech here. The Mail published its article and, as the press and public of a free speaking country, critics are now defeating their ideas with better ideas. That's free debate, and it seems to me that Ed Miliband has won. It remains to be seen whether this will have a lasting effect outside of Westminster.

 

The comparisons with Gordon Brown's letter and 'bigoted woman' remark are hardly worth making, because they were the actions of the Prime Minister and not the teenage diary entries of his long-deceased father.

 

Liddle does make a good point about the lack of balance between left and right though. Conservatives get a lot of crap for their backgrounds.

Edited 3 October, 2013 by DuncanRG

[Lord Duckhunter]

I Agree it's just making the mail look more stupid despite the lunatic fringe which defend a story of a dead guy but there are a lot of decent Tories who know this is out of order.so some idiots think it's all right to attend a family funeral without.a invite says more about how low there morals go.it's just making milband look better in the public's mind.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

Perhaps you could point us in the direction of the Tories that thought it was ok to go to the funeral, or are you making things up again?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Perhaps you could point us in the direction of the Tories that thought it was ok to go to the funeral, or are you making things up again?

 

He didn't say they were any... "so some idiots" refers to the MoS journos no?

 

Do you think it was wrong to gatecrash the memorial?

[solentstars]

He didn't say they were any... "so some idiots" refers to the MoS journos no?

 

Do you think it was wrong to gatecrash the memorial?

I did mention the lunatic fringe

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Lord Duckhunter]

He didn't say they were any... "so some idiots" refers to the MoS journos no?

 

Do you think it was wrong to gatecrash the memorial?

 

Course it's not.

 

Yesterday he said the nasty people running the show had defected to UKIP, before backtracking, and now he's saying "there are a lot of decent Tories who know this is out of order.so some idiots think it's all right to attend a family funeral without.a invite says more about how low there morals go". Which is garbled nonsense, but seems to imply that although decent Tories know it's out of order, some think it's ok. I may have mistranslated , because in his rush to attack Tories, he types before he thinks. 2 Daily Mail hacks doing this is as relevant to the Tory party as The Daily Mirror making things up about British troops was to the Labour Party.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Course it's not.

 

Yesterday he said the nasty people running the show had defected to UKIP, before backtracking, and now he's saying "there are a lot of decent Tories who know this is out of order.so some idiots think it's all right to attend a family funeral without.a invite says more about how low there morals go". Which is garbled nonsense, but seems to imply that although decent Tories know it's out of order, some think it's ok. I may have mistranslated , because in his rush to attack Tories, he types before he thinks. 2 Daily Mail hacks doing this is as relevant to the Tory party as The Daily Mirror making things up about British troops was to the Labour Party.

 

Agreed

[solentstars]

Unfortunately when anyone posts on here it can be read by different people in different ways and mistakes are made. but yes I do make things up and lie so I must be just right for the daily mail ..I actually voted for Cameron being on the liberal wing of the party and his attempts to modernise the party from the old guard and have a very good local Tory mp and before that a good liberal lady mp.I don't believe anyone should be a devout follower of any party. .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Wes Tender]

Wes, it doesnt look as you even understand what you're writing, its jibberish. Its like asking do I not see any connection between the teaching of totally unregulated free market economics leading to frustration it cant be achieved by normal means and people turning to anarchy and revolution instead.

 

Just fyi anarchism is about rejecting governments, hierachy and authority. Marxism is about enforcing social equality. They're the antithesis of each other

 

Thanks for patronising me. I know perfectly well what Anarchy and Maxism are. There are many ways to define anarchy, as there are also many forms of it. Your example is not like mine one little bit, but see what you want to. I stick by my point.

 

You haven't yet defined politics in a way that excludes Viking Warrior or me from being able to express an opinion because apparently we both don't know what we're talking about.

 

You seem perfectly smug that you are qualified even to express an opinion that Milliband senior didn't know what he was talking about

 

Miliband senior's economic and political views were wrong, which they were

 

What qualifications are these by the way?

 

Politics as an academic subject is not an exact science any more than economics is, therefore proving one's position as right or wrong is impossible and depends on one's viewpoint, rather than an arrogant you don't know what you're talking about response such as you employed.

 

Politics as a cover-all label encompassing everyday experiences of such diverse things as education, health, immigration, taxation, foreign policy, etc, cannot preclude the man in the street from having an opinion just because they have no academic political studies behind them and in any event those teachings would be slanted by the political leanings of the tutor.

 

So when you say that somebody is not qualified to speak about political matters, then by your narrow definition you disenfranchise the majority of the electorate.