Miliband's father

[trousers]

whataboutery

 

[rooney]

I would not have that Daily Mail rubbish in my house. Not fit for the cat's tray.

[trousers]

I would not have that Daily Mail rubbish in my house. Not fit for the cat's tray.

 

But whatabout all their complimentary articles about Saints recently?

[OldNick]

I can't see why so many are getting their knockers in a twist, it is obvious that Milliband has followed his fathers ideals and during his childhood his fathers opinions would be ingrained. It is best that the electorate understand what they are getting , as when/if Ed becomes PM he will then appear from behind his cloak.

Our nation has gone through a lot of pain trying to rectify the last administrations waste, it looks that we may not have learnt and need more of it again.

[Viking Warrior]

So it was alright for the looney left to have street parties etc when M thatcher died . Millibands dad had an ideology that was anti British and promoted Marxism . Why didn't he follow his uncles lead and go join the red army . .

And what about the mirror and what they printed when thatcher died

Oh he went to Belgium and when the Germans forced him out he got the first boat tothe Uk and through his informative years and academic years spouted off anti British crap .

 

Millipede should reflect look how his party allowed many undesirables like Abu Hamas and quatada etc to stay in this country spouting off anti British ****e . I have not seen the gravestone picture . But that is below the belt .

 

Millipede needs to grow a pair . He's not said anything about Mr Mcbride has he . He was a pretty vocal Labour Party member

[rallyboy]

I have no time for Milliband, Cameron nor Clegg - no agenda here.

 

But a newspaper that openly supported the Nazis, now has the cheek to imply someone else is anti-British?

The Mail has dragged all tabloids even lower.

[Wes Tender]

So it was alright for the looney left to have street parties etc when M thatcher died . Millibands dad had an ideology that was anti British and promoted Marxism . Why didn't he follow his uncles lead and go join the red army . .

And what about the mirror and what they printed when thatcher died

Oh he went to Belgium and when the Germans forced him out he got the first boat tothe Uk and through his informative years and academic years spouted off anti British crap .

 

Millipede should reflect look how his party allowed many undesirables like Abu Hamas and quatada etc to stay in this country spouting off anti British ****e . I have not seen the gravestone picture . But that is below the belt .

 

Millipede needs to grow a pair . He's not said anything about Mr Mcbride has he . He was a pretty vocal Labour Party member

 

This is England and we have a history of allowing immigrants to come here and then try and change the politics of the country into a model that they espouse. Some are pretty extreme and Marxism can certainly be bracketed in that category. But we're a pretty liberal lot and tolerate the right to freedom of speech from those who would seek to overthrow the establishment that they despise. And then they wonder why the British public tire of our liberal immigration stance and call for these extremists to be deported.

 

So Milliband's dad served in the Royal Navy during the war, so he must actually be a patriot. Well, not necessarily. It could also be the case that his hate towards the Nazis was greater than his love of this country and our services were merely the vehicle for him to play a fairly minor part towards the defeat of Hitler.

 

There is a great deal of naivety and hypocrisy on this issue. Naivety in believing that the Milliband boys will not have been influenced in any way by indoctrination by their father and that it is only the Daily Mail of British newspapers that is capable of this sort of mud-slinging to support a political agenda. Newspapers on the left are equally as capable. As for hypocrisy, there are several rich veins. Ralph Milliband despised the British establishment and yet was quite content to take measures to avoid paying his taxes in death duties. He also seems quite content that his children took advantage of the elitist education provided by the Oxbridge Universities. As has already been pointed out, the usual suspects from the left of the spectrum on here are incandescent with rage at the Mail attacking one of their heroes, but see nothing amiss with their infantile joy when Margaret Thatcher died.

 

Further hypocrisy came in the form of Alistair Campbell on Newsnight attacking the editor of the Mail, calling him a bully. The irony was deliciously rich, as he proceeded to bully him, haranguing him mercilessly, not letting him get in a word edgeways. To his credit, the fellow remained calm and measured and made Campbell look like the jibbering idiot that he is. The reality is that this Mail article is a piece of propaganda attempting to blacken Milliband's name and as dispicable as it is, doing it via his dead father, I don't for one moment believe that it is a tactic that Campbell would have shied away from given the opportunity. After all, he was the arch spin-doctor apologist for Labour, turning media propaganda into an art form; an unprincipled opportunist.

 

When the next election comes around, this episode will largely be forgotten, but what will remain in the back of peoples' minds is something about the Labour leader's dad being an extreme leftie and that there is the possibilty that he might have leanings in that direction too. That was entirely the object of the exercise and as distasteful as it has been, it is a blunt but effective weapon.

[badgerx16]

 

When the next election comes around, this episode will largely be forgotten, ....

 

I suspect that the Mail will find some way to resurrect it.

[ecuk268]

I can't see why so many are getting their knockers in a twist, it is obvious that Milliband has followed his fathers ideals and during his childhood his fathers opinions would be ingrained.

 

What evidence have you got that his father's opinions would be ingrained. Did you know the family?

 

When we reach our teenage years, many of us rebel against our parents views and don't blithely taken on their opinions. What you think at 17 is hardly indicative of how you'll be in later years.

 

Ken Livingstone was on R4 this morning telling how his mother and father were both working-class Tory voters and, when he was 17, he was very anti-Labour. He started to form his own left-wing views in his 20's, much to his parents dismay.

[alpine_saint]

I see no issue whatsoever with analysing the political background and the roots of the beliefs of the man who might be the next Prime Minister of the UK. For me this is clearly a public interest issue.

[Scummer]

are you actually thick or just pretending? how about the headline that read "the man who hated Britain". I sure wouldn't appreciate a headline like that about one of my parents.

 

Looks like the Mirror are getting in some retaliation:

 

https://twitter.com/LWEmbley66/status/385050163988803585/photo/1

 

It's a spoof, but lol at the people pointing out that the Mirror was owned by the same bloke and also supported the blackshirts........

[jjsaint]

I see no issue whatsoever with analysing the political background and the roots of the beliefs of the man who might be the next Prime Minister of the UK. For me this is clearly a public interest issue.

 

I agree. It all seems like manufactured outrage from Labour. 'Tabloid newspaper in over-the-top headline' shocker.

[bridge too far]

This is well worth a read - if anyone is keen to delve beneath the headlines

 

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/oct/01/daily-mail-distorted-book-ralph-miliband?CMP=fb_gu

[Wes Tender]

This is well worth a read - if anyone is keen to delve beneath the headlines

 

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/oct/01/daily-mail-distorted-book-ralph-miliband?CMP=fb_gu

 

And when the article is in the Guardian and written by Ralph Milliband's biographer, then whereas it will undoubtedly put across the opposing viewpoint, it also needs to be taken with a giant pinch of salt.

[bridge too far]

And when the article is in the Guardian and written by Ralph Milliband's biographer, then whereas it will undoubtedly put across the opposing viewpoint, it also needs to be taken with a giant pinch of salt.

 

Even though he quotes from his biography written in 2002? It helps to balance the discussion though, doesn't it. As I said - if anyone wants to delve beneath the headlines (although I'm not sure it's possible to delve lower than the Daily Mail TBH) it's a good article to read.

 

Tell you what - my dad was of his generation; racist, sexist and he would certainly have disapproved of gay marriage. I profoundly disagreed with much of what he thought about the world but I also admired many of his qualities. In spite of his political views, if anyone had traduced him in a similar fashion, I would have defended him to the end.

[Wes Tender]

Even though he quotes from his biography written in 2002? It helps to balance the discussion though, doesn't it. As I said - if anyone wants to delve beneath the headlines (although I'm not sure it's possible to delve lower than the Daily Mail TBH) it's a good article to read.

 

Tell you what - my dad was of his generation; racist, sexist and he would certainly have disapproved of gay marriage. I profoundly disagreed with much of what he thought about the world but I also admired many of his qualities. In spite of his political views, if anyone had traduced him in a similar fashion, I would have defended him to the end.

 

What has the date of publication of the biography to do with anything? Although it is fashionable to write biographies on minor celebrities before the ink has hardly dried on their birth certificates, this one was written at a time of Ralph Milliband's life when there was sufficient background on his life to provide significant material on his beliefs and his life up until then.

 

Yes, it helps to balance the discussion, but only because the source of the article is from the polar opposite media mouthpiece. The reasonable view is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

Having read both pieces for the sake of balance, I still give some credit to the Mail for giving me some background into what a rabid leftie Milliband's father was. I was not aware of it before and whereas I accept that it isn't the case that children necessarily follow the political beliefs of their parents, nevertheless there is influence from one's upbringing, whether the child follows their parents beliefs or takes an opposite stance because of them.

 

Incidentally, like your Dad, I also disapprove of Gay marriage. That doesn't necessarily make me homophobic though, does it?

[solentstars]

I have no time for Milliband, Cameron nor Clegg - no agenda here.

 

But a newspaper that openly supported the Nazis, now has the cheek to imply someone else is anti-British?

The Mail has dragged all tabloids even lower.

agree and look how the die hard Tories link it to Thatcher who happened to be a prime minister yet are happy to attack someone who is not a politician and fought in the war has no big deal.I bet they would run.a mile if they had to fight for their country.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[solentstars]

What has the date of publication of the biography to do with anything? Although it is fashionable to write biographies on minor celebrities before the ink has hardly dried on their birth certificates, this one was written at a time of Ralph Milliband's life when there was sufficient background on his life to provide significant material on his beliefs and his life up until then.

 

Yes, it helps to balance the discussion, but only because the source of the article is from the polar opposite media mouthpiece. The reasonable view is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

Having read both pieces for the sake of balance, I still give some credit to the Mail for giving me some background into what a rabid leftie Milliband's father was. I was not aware of it before and whereas I accept that it isn't the case that children necessarily follow the political beliefs of their parents, nevertheless there is influence from one's upbringing, whether the child follows their parents beliefs or takes an opposite stance because of them.

 

Incidentally, like your Dad, I also disapprove of Gay marriage. That doesn't necessarily make me homophobic though, does it?

well balanced article and also the conditions prewar there was a lot of support for.Marxist ideas in Europe at the time and a lot of the establishment in Britain had Nazi symphony. Thank god for the likes of Churchill.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Wes Tender]

well balanced article and also the conditions prewar there was a lot of support for.Marxist ideas in Europe at the time and a lot of the establishment in Britain had Nazi symphony. Thank god for the likes of Churchill.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

Yes thank God for Churchill, who despite Ralph Milliband's positive acknowledgement of the part he played in our defeat of Nazi German, was exactly the privileged establishment figure that he despised. And presumably the sort of Tory politician and Prime Minister that you reckon would run a mile instead of fighting for his country.

 

Yes, there were many Nazi sympathisers and many Marxist/Communist sympathisers too. Milliband senior was one of the latter, arguably not much better than the former, when you consider the attrocities committed by Stalin, whereas the majority populace who thankfully supported neither doctrine were the ones who gain most credit.

[solentstars]

Yes thank God for Churchill, who despite Ralph Milliband's positive acknowledgement of the part he played in our defeat of Nazi German, was exactly the privileged establishment figure that he despised. And presumably the sort of Tory politician and Prime Minister that you reckon would run a mile instead of fighting for his country.

 

Yes, there were many Nazi sympathisers and many Marxist/Communist sympathisers too. Milliband senior was one of the latter, arguably not much better than the former, when you consider the attrocities committed by Stalin, whereas the majority populace who thankfully supported neither doctrine were the ones who gain most credit.

agree I think some should read the history books about the 1930s and events which lead to the world war and the political beliefs at the time.we are lucky to live in a different period and so our much richer compared to that generation.I wish people would realise how well off compared to those days.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[bridge too far]

Yes thank God for Churchill, who despite Ralph Milliband's positive acknowledgement of the part he played in our defeat of Nazi German, was exactly the privileged establishment figure that he despised. And presumably the sort of Tory politician and Prime Minister that you reckon would run a mile instead of fighting for his country.

 

Yes, there were many Nazi sympathisers and many Marxist/Communist sympathisers too. Milliband senior was one of the latter, arguably not much better than the former, when you consider the attrocities committed by Stalin, whereas the majority populace who thankfully supported neither doctrine were the ones who gain most credit.

 

From the biography:

 

"But this is a complete misrepresentation of his position. In fact, he had never joined the Communist party and was already critical of Soviet policies in the early postwar period."

[buctootim]

From the biography:

 

"But this is a complete misrepresentation of his position. In fact, he had never joined the Communist party and was already critical of Soviet policies in the early postwar period."

 

Exactly. He was a member of the New Left, more akin to liberal hippies (gay rights, equal pay etc) than Marxism. In any event Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc had very little to do with Marx and were just corrupted dictators under a different name

[Wes Tender]

Exactly. He was a member of the New Left, more akin to liberal hippies (gay rights, equal pay etc) than Marxism. In any event Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc had very little to do with Marx and were just corrupted dictators under a different name

 

So Ralph Milliband was widely misunderstood and should have been regarded as some sort of pioneer of New Labour? Or is that the old left, before Blair changed the window dressing and added the ad-man's dream tag "New" before it for a cleaner whitewash of what people like Milliband senior stood for?

[buctootim]

So Ralph Milliband was widely misunderstood and should have been regarded as some sort of pioneer of New Labour? Or is that the old left, before Blair changed the window dressing and added the ad-man's dream tag "New" before it for a cleaner whitewash of what people like Milliband senior stood for?

 

 

If you actually read anything first hand instead of simply regurgitating hack's trashing pieces you would know that and wouldnt have to resort to inane smilies. Miliband founded the New Left Review in order to create a platform for a movement called the New Left between Marxism and Social Democrats. Nothing to do with New Labour. They aren't politics I agree with - but I try to make sure I have facts so I avoid your favourite pitfall of making uninformed and so embarrassing posts. .

Edited 2 October, 2013 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

agree and look how the die hard Tories link it to Thatcher who happened to be a prime minister yet are happy to attack someone who is not a politician and fought in the war has no big deal.I bet they would run.a mile if they had to fight for their country.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

The most laughable defence on here, "not a politician". This isn't some sort of ordinary voter, he spouted his political "views" the whole of his adult life. Not even Red Ed is trying to pretend that he somehow wasn't involved in politics.

 

 

There is a very clear set of circumstances that have led to this article, it wasn't just some sort of random "lets have a pop at Red Ed, by dissing his dad (had that been a tabloid tactic then Jack Straw's coward of a father, would have been an easy target during the new labour years)

 

Basically Damien McBride alleged in his book that Ed stabbed his brother in the back to protect his Fathers legacy. In light of that, his Father's "legacy" is clearly a legitimate target for discussion and wider comment. Add to this the modern politicians use of their families as props, to show "where they came from" and "who they are" (he has mentioned his Mum and Dad and apple pie in plenty of political speeches) And the fact that Red Ralph was clearly deeply involved in politics, and you can see why the story had legs. The issue then becomes whether Red Ralph's political views and his clear hatred of certain aspects of British life, constitutes a hatred of "his country". Personally, I don't think it does, but can see how some people may think so. I don't think Mrs Thatcher had a hatred of the North or of Scotland, but can well understand people who think she may have done. Had the Daily Mirror written an article "the women who hated Scotland" which then went on to pinpoint statements and policies that they believed proved their point, whilst disagreeing with it,I would have no issue with it. I certainly wouldn't be foaming at the mouth in moral outrage. I also doubt very much that the Mirror would allow carol Thatcher a rebuttal the following day. Brian Reade called Thatcher "evil" in the Mirror, a statement every bit as nasty as anything written about Red Ralph . In my opinion the left and many posters on here are getting their knickers in a twist because of the publication that the article appeared in. It is an opportunity to show their moral outrage at the bogey man Mail, whilst defending an old Leftie. A great win-win for them.

[Wes Tender]

If you actually read anything first hand instead of simply regurgitating hack's trashing pieces you would know that and wouldnt have to resort to inane smilies. Miliband founded the Socialist Review in order to create a space for a movement called the New Left between Marxism and Labour. Nothing to do with New Labour. They aren't politics I agree with - but I try to make sure I have facts so I avoid your favourite pitfall of making uninformed and so embarrassing posts. .

 

 

I don't feel remotely embarrassed, but if you want, you can feel embarrassment on my behalf if it makes you feel better. The inane smiley (I didn't know that there were different varieties) was for amusement at your description of him as some sort of new-age hippy of the political world.

[solentstars]

Lord Heseltine said the article was effectively a "hatchet job" and the newspaper had gone too far. "I personally thought the article was carrying politics to an extent which is demeaning frankly," he said.

"As everybody knows, the guy [Ralph Miliband] fought for the country and we now live in a totally different world to the clash between fascism and communism."

And former Conservative cabinet minister Lord Moore, who studied under Ralph Miliband at the London School of Economics, said it "beggared belief" that he could be accused of a lack of patriotism.

 

"I never heard him ever say one word which was negative about Britain - our country," he said in a statement.

"The people of this country are good and decent too. They do not want the Daily Mail attacking the dead relatives of politicians to make political points." ...some up those die hard tories who live in there own little bubble trying to defend a hate rag which supported fascism and smear someone involved in war is laughable but the daily mail hate everyone i suppose .

[badgerx16]

I heard a quote on the radio this evening stating that this whole affair is actually a matter of 'freedom of the press'....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The editorial team at the Daily Mail are perfectly free to confirm their status as narrow-minded, bullying, bigots.

[solentstars]

The most laughable defence on here, "not a politician". This isn't some sort of ordinary voter, he spouted his political "views" the whole of his adult life. Not even Red Ed is trying to pretend that he somehow wasn't involved in politics.

 

 

There is a very clear set of circumstances that have led to this article, it wasn't just some sort of random "lets have a pop at Red Ed, by dissing his dad (had that been a tabloid tactic then Jack Straw's coward of a father, would have been an easy target during the new labour years)

 

Basically Damien McBride alleged in his book that Ed stabbed his brother in the back to protect his Fathers legacy. In light of that, his Father's "legacy" is clearly a legitimate target for discussion and wider comment. Add to this the modern politicians use of their families as props, to show "where they came from" and "who they are" (he has mentioned his Mum and Dad and apple pie in plenty of political speeches) And the fact that Red Ralph was clearly deeply involved in politics, and you can see why the story had legs. The issue then becomes whether Red Ralph's political views and his clear hatred of certain aspects of British life, constitutes a hatred of "his country". Personally, I don't think it does, but can see how some people may think so. I don't think Mrs Thatcher had a hatred of the North or of Scotland, but can well understand people who think she may have done. Had the Daily Mirror written an article "the women who hated Scotland" which then went on to pinpoint statements and policies that they believed proved their point, whilst disagreeing with it,I would have no issue with it. I certainly wouldn't be foaming at the mouth in moral outrage. I also doubt very much that the Mirror would allow carol Thatcher a rebuttal the following day. Brian Reade called Thatcher "evil" in the Mirror, a statement every bit as nasty as anything written about Red Ralph . In my opinion the left and many posters on here are getting their knickers in a twist because of the publication that the article appeared in. It is an opportunity to show their moral outrage at the bogey man Mail, whilst defending an old Leftie. A great win-win for them.

fact he was not a politician or can you tell me what area has a mp he represented ..and it was a sad excuse lets have a pop at Ed millband by dissing his father.

thank god we got decenct tories running the party nowdays rather than the days when the old nasty party run the show and defected to ukip there natural home.

[Lord Duckhunter]

fact he was not a politician or can you tell me what area has a mp he represented ..and it was a sad excuse lets have a pop at Ed millband by dissing his father.

thank god we got decenct tories running the party nowdays rather than the days when the old nasty party run the show and defected to ukip there natural home.

 

What a load of nonsense. Red Ed himself said that red Ralph's politics were a legitimate discussion point. His problem was with one specific accusation only. That he hated our country.

 

As for the nasty party, I suggest you read the McBride book.

 

Perhaps you could also point out who used to run the show and then defected to ukip? Just a couple of names will do. Ran the show and then defected to ukip, I'm sure you know your stuff and didn't just think that was a good line, that is factually incorrect. I await the names with interest.

 

It makes me laugh that in a thread about making something up to suit a political agenda ( this case the mail) you make something up that suits yours. Thatcher, Joseph, howe , hestletine, Clarke, portillo, Lawson, major, Lamont, tebbitt, Hurd, are ones I can think of off the top of my head. These ran the show, who are the ukip defectors?

Edited 2 October, 2013 by Lord Duckhunter

[Jonnyboy]

Lord Heseltine said the article was effectively a "hatchet job" and the newspaper had gone too far. "I personally thought the article was carrying politics to an extent which is demeaning frankly," he said.

"As everybody knows, the guy [Ralph Miliband] fought for the country and we now live in a totally different world to the clash between fascism and communism."

And former Conservative cabinet minister Lord Moore, who studied under Ralph Miliband at the London School of Economics, said it "beggared belief" that he could be accused of a lack of patriotism.

 

"I never heard him ever say one word which was negative about Britain - our country," he said in a statement.

"The people of this country are good and decent too. They do not want the Daily Mail attacking the dead relatives of politicians to make political points." ...some up those die hard tories who live in there own little bubble trying to defend a hate rag which supported fascism and smear someone involved in war is laughable but the daily mail hate everyone i suppose .

 

The Mail seems to exist to feed and prey on the anxieties and prejudices of middle class housewives (certainly works on my mum anyway).

[solentstars]

The Mail seems to exist to feed and prey on the anxieties and prejudices of middle class housewives (certainly works on my mum anyway).

ha ha agree and don,t forget the crusty old reactionary male tories frothing at the mouth brigade..thank god we are all liberals now

[solentstars]

What a load of nonsense. Red Ed himself said that red Ralph's politics were a legitimate discussion point. His problem was with one specific accusation only. That he hated our country.

 

As for the nasty party, I suggest you read the McBride book.

 

Perhaps you could also point out who used to run the show and then defected to ukip? Just a couple of names will do. Ran the show and then defected to ukip, I'm sure you know your stuff and didn't just think that was a good line, that is factually incorrect. I await the names with interest.

 

It makes me laugh that in a thread about making something up to suit a political agenda ( this case the mail) you make something up that suits yours. Thatcher, Joseph, howe , hestletine, Clarke, portillo, Lawson, major, Lamont, tebbitt, Hurd, are ones I can think of off the top of my head. These ran the show, who are the ukip defectors?

the defectors to ukip are the activists mainly of the thatcherite generation elderly and alot in there 70 s,who cannot stomach camerons liberalism has quoted by one of the news channels 2 weeks ago i think it was on channel 4 news.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Thatcher ally deplores the Mail http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/02/thatcher-ally-daily-mail-ralph-miliband-lies

 

Loads of support for Miliband from the Tories past and present, shame some of the reactionaries on here can't join them.

[bridge too far]

http://toys.usvsth3m.com/are-you-hated-by-the-daily-mail/

[Chicken With A Banjo]

[quote=Wes Tender;1792228

 

When the next election comes around, this episode will largely be forgotten, but what will remain in the back of peoples' minds is something about the Labour leader's dad being an extreme leftie and that there is the possibilty that he might have leanings in that direction too. That was entirely the object of the exercise and as distasteful as it has been, it is a blunt but effective weapon.

 

There is no way this can be described as a blunt but effective weapon. The following comment from the guardian sums it up for me:

 

So, to recap the effects of that Daily Mail article on Ralph Miliband: It robbed the Conservative party conference of the headlines it expected – it was ahead of any of their policy announcements all yesterday in most news bulletins, across most channels. It reinforced Ed Miliband's image, for the second week running, as someone of integrity who stands up to bullies. It secured him sympathy and support from most political opponents. It caused a social media reaction which refreshed everyone's memory about the Daily Mail's historical links with Mosley and Hitler. It even managed to revive interest in the Leveson inquiry's recommendations. All in all, it was the journalistic equivalent of a glorious Stan Laurel pratfall.

[Hockey_saint]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/02/thatcher-ally-daily-mail-ralph-miliband-lies

 

Really, what a pr!ckish thing for the Daily Mail to do and if you support such nonsense then you're as bitter, twisted and heartless as the gutter rag itself. Is this the level of desperation the nasty right will turn to to feed upon the basal hatred of your common man?

 

ALSO, Ralph Milliband didn't ruin and destroy the lives of a fairly large population in this country unlike Thatcher.....disgusting comparison.

[Whitey Grandad]

I wouldn't invest too much in what you read in the Guardian either. Most if the country couldn't give a toss.

[Lord Duckhunter]

the defectors to ukip are the activists mainly of the thatcherite generation elderly and alot in there 70 s,who cannot stomach camerons liberalism has quoted by one of the news channels 2 weeks ago i think it was on channel 4 news.

 

That's not what you said. You said that the people "running the show" and compared these to the " decent Tories " running the party now. You are backtracking when caught making things up.

[buctootim]

The inane smiley (I didn't know that there were different varieties) was for amusement at your description of him as some sort of new-age hippy of the political world.

 

"The New Left was a term used mainly in the United Kingdom and United States in reference to activists, educators, agitators and others in the 1960s and 1970s who sought to implement a broad range of reforms on issues such as gay rights, abortion, gender roles and drugs"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left

Edited 2 October, 2013 by buctootim

[Sheaf Saint]

In my opinion the left and many posters on here are getting their knickers in a twist because of the publication that the article appeared in. It is an opportunity to show their moral outrage at the bogey man Mail, whilst defending an old Leftie. A great win-win for them.

 

Nonsense. The outcry would be the same if the article appeared in any of the other nationals. But that's beside the point, because none of the rest of them would have had the indecency and poor taste to print such a 'story' in the first place. The fact that the Mail published it only serves to reinforce the reasons why so many people find it to be such a disgusting rag.

[solentstars]

That's not what you said. You said that the people "running the show" and compared these to the " decent Tories " running the party now. You are backtracking when caught making things up.

yes your right i forget to put the activists so i can understand it came across wrong

[Sheaf Saint]

I wouldn't invest too much in what you read in the Guardian either. Most if the country couldn't give a toss.

 

Doesn't really matter where this story was published really. It's a direct quote from a former Conservative cabinet member who knew Ralph Miliband personally having studied with him.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Nonsense. The outcry would be the same if the article appeared in any of the other nationals. But that's beside the point, because none of the rest of them would have had the indecency and poor taste to print such a 'story' in the first place. The fact that the Mail published it only serves to reinforce the reasons why so many people find it to be such a disgusting rag.

 

Brian Reade and Toynbee are two that wrote particularly vicious articles about Thatcher when she died. So it is not confined to the daily mail, just as phone hacking was not confined to the news of the world. My view is Thatcher, red Ralph or any other political person is fair game, dead or alive. Others may think that such attacks are wrong and disgusting. However , some people appear to want it both ways. If its somebody they hate and it appears in a paper they dont mind, then its legitimate. Put it in the Daily Mail about an old leftie and its moral outrage here we come. Its laughable that people like Alistair Campbell are outraged by this, that people like Campbell are somehow morally superior then the daily mail defies belief.

[CB Fry]

I do love the way that, in some people's minds, Ralph Milliband has morphed into a towering political figure of the age, on a par with one of the most successful prime ministers of all time.

 

I am now disgusted that Ralph Milliband - you remember him, that really famous politician - didn't have a ceremonial funeral with full military honours. Cause he was, like, so influential on all our lives.

[Hockey_saint]

I do love the way that, in some people's minds, Ralph Milliband has morphed into a towering political figure of the age, on a par with one of the most successful prime ministers of all time.

 

I am now disgusted that Ralph Milliband - you remember him, that really famous politician - didn't have a ceremonial funeral with full military honours. Cause he was, like, so influential on all our lives.

 

I know very little about Ralph Miliband but what I will say is that the nasty right's argument that's ok to attack the opposition leader's dead father because some people on the left may have been particularly bitter and twisted about losing their jobs, their livelihood (and in the case of the Hillsborough dead, their lives thanks to a cover up that went right to her) thanks to a woman who's impact on this country has been blown out of all proportion thanks to a few people with views that clearly do not reflect a large proportion of the population is wrong.

 

Besides, I still suspect it has more to do with the man's nationality at birth since this is the Daily mail. Besides which, this is the paper that was, pre-world war two, in bed with Oswald Mosely and his fascist party and their friends would seek to destroy our country.....so who is unBritish and evil again?

Edited 3 October, 2013 by Hockey_saint

[Sour Mash]

I do love the way that, in some people's minds, Ralph Milliband has morphed into a towering political figure of the age, on a par with one of the most successful prime ministers of all time.

 

I am now disgusted that Ralph Milliband - you remember him, that really famous politician - didn't have a ceremonial funeral with full military honours. Cause he was, like, so influential on all our lives.

Can you draw up a list of people who are/aren't allowed to be criticised after their death? Just so we know, like.

[CB Fry]

Can you draw up a list of people who are/aren't allowed to be criticised after their death? Just so we know, like.

 

Nicola Cortese.

Stu Francis.

Dame Ellen MacArthur.

Roald Dahl.

Nigella.

[Wes Tender]

There is no way this can be described as a blunt but effective weapon. The following comment from the guardian sums it up for me:

 

 

So, to recap the effects of that Daily Mail article on Ralph Miliband: It robbed the Conservative party conference of the headlines it expected – it was ahead of any of their policy announcements all yesterday in most news bulletins, across most channels. It reinforced Ed Miliband's image, for the second week running, as someone of integrity who stands up to bullies. It secured him sympathy and support from most political opponents. It caused a social media reaction which refreshed everyone's memory about the Daily Mail's historical links with Mosley and Hitler. It even managed to revive interest in the Leveson inquiry's recommendations. All in all, it was the journalistic equivalent of a glorious Stan Laurel pratfall.

 

I wouldn't personally accept the Guardian's explanations trying to put a positive gloss on a story that longer term will have damaged their darling boy.

 

Maybe it robbed the Conservative party of headlines that will be forgotten in a month, even if half the electorate ever heard them. Ditto the other policy announcements, which of course will be reiterated before the next election anyway. Milliband's reputation will have been enhanced in the minds of Labour voters and some floating voters. But senior politicians from other parties also emerge with a boost to their integrity through their stances. Yes, people's memories will have been refreshed regarding the Mail's pro-Nazi stance before the war, but also about the Mirrors disgusting stance when Margaret Thatcher died, which being the more recent event is fresher in their minds. Events that happened during the war have been dulled in the minds of most, apart from those who lived through them. The majority of the electorate will not even know who Mosley was.

 

But when all the furore over the Mail's crass handling of this affair has died down, it would be naive to believe that the essence of the story will be forgotten, that the Milliband boys' father was an extreme leftie and regardless of how far they try to distance themselves from his political ideology, the suspicion will persist that some of it will have been indoctrinated into them, just in the same way that Ralph Milliband was indoctrinated towards Marxism by his tutor at the LSE and he in turn will have indoctrinated many of his students when he was a lecturer in Politics too. So I stand by my assertion that the mud that sticks from this episode will be proven to be a blunt but effective weapon.

[Sheaf Saint]

Brian Reade and Toynbee are two that wrote particularly vicious articles about Thatcher when she died. So it is not confined to the daily mail, just as phone hacking was not confined to the news of the world. My view is Thatcher, red Ralph or any other political person is fair game, dead or alive. Others may think that such attacks are wrong and disgusting. However , some people appear to want it both ways. If its somebody they hate and it appears in a paper they dont mind, then its legitimate. Put it in the Daily Mail about an old leftie and its moral outrage here we come. Its laughable that people like Alistair Campbell are outraged by this, that people like Campbell are somehow morally superior then the daily mail defies belief.

 

Reade and Toynbee may well have been fiercely critical of Margaret Thatcher in what they wrote. I'm not aware, however, of either of them printing outright lies about her and refusing to retract them when corrected.