Work for Benefits

[Johnny Bognor]

In principle, a good idea

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24327470

 

Let's see how they plan to implement it

[trousers]

Agree. Another common sense Conservative policy (much like the removal of the spare bedroom subsidy) but, knowing the Tories, they'll screw up the implementation somewhere along the line...

[View From The Top]

Agree. Another common sense Conservative policy (much like the removal of the spare bedroom subsidy) but, knowing the Tories, they'll screw up the implementation somewhere along the line...

 

The spare bedroom is as about far removed from common sense as you can get.

 

Three examples that I've direct experience of.

 

1) Mid 40s man, crippled, after being mowed down by a car, the driver convicted of attempted murder, has 2 bed council place. Wife is diagnosed with breast cancer in the Dec', she dies in the April. They then tell him he has to move or have his income cut although they have no 1 bed places in their inventory.

 

2) Divorceed man, wins court battle to have access to his 2 daughters, again has 2 bed property. Council tell him he has to move to one bed place which means his kids can't stay. Mother takes him back to court using the grounds of unsuitable property & looses the 2 nights per week he could of had them.

 

3) Mother of 3. Kids are taken into care and she is told she has to sort herself out, which she does, even getting a P/T job. Council tell her she must give up 3 bed place or face cuts, which she can't afford but if she gives it up she doesn't get her kids back.

[View From The Top]

In principle, a good idea

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24327470

 

Let's see how they plan to implement it

 

Don't think anyone would have an issue with it, regardless of political leaning.

[Window Cleaner]

In principle, a good idea

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24327470

 

Let's see how they plan to implement it

 

is it any different from the bloated public service that we once had really. A bloke sweeps roads for a council or does a non-job in a nationalised industry, those are a real jobs but at the end of the day the taxpayer pays. A bloke does "useful" work for benefits...not a real job but at the end of the day the taxpayer pays anyway.

[tony13579]

I work for my benefits.... I have to do a minimum 35 hours at £1.71 per hour carers allowance.....

I swear the UK has a minimum wage...

[trousers]

The spare bedroom is as about far removed from common sense as you can get.

 

Three examples that I've direct experience of.

 

1) Mid 40s man, crippled, after being mowed down by a car, the driver convicted of attempted murder, has 2 bed council place. Wife is diagnosed with breast cancer in the Dec', she dies in the April. They then tell him he has to move or have his income cut although they have no 1 bed places in their inventory.

 

2) Divorceed man, wins court battle to have access to his 2 daughters, again has 2 bed property. Council tell him he has to move to one bed place which means his kids can't stay. Mother takes him back to court using the grounds of unsuitable property & looses the 2 nights per week he could of had them.

 

3) Mother of 3. Kids are taken into care and she is told she has to sort herself out, which she does, even getting a P/T job. Council tell her she must give up 3 bed place or face cuts, which she can't afford but if she gives it up she doesn't get her kids back.

 

Those are examples of poor implementation, so we're in agreement there. The principle of the state not paying for GENUINELY spare bedrooms is a sound one.

[ecuk268]

Thatcher and Blair both considered this but gave up.

 

Is the idea to save money or is it a sop to the right-wing in their dislike of anyone in receipt of benefits (despite many having contributed all their lives via National Insurance).

 

If you're on Jobseekers at about £70.00 per week, how many hours are you expected to do? If it's at the minimum wage, then about 11. How will it be administered? Will there be a small army of supervisors checking up on people? How much will they cost?

 

It'll probably be contracted out to some company who donates to the Tories, who'll make a fat profit whilst managing to cock the whole thing up (perhaps G4S).

 

Can't see it ever getting off the ground.

[bridge too far]

Genuine question here. If someone is on JSA, do they get their travel costs to the Job Centre refunded?

 

Whether yes or no, a daily visit to the Job Centre is going to cost someone somewhere a fair whack.

 

Interesting article:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24282840

[View From The Top]

Those are examples of poor implementation, so we're in agreement there. The principle of the state not paying for GENUINELY spare bedrooms is a sound one.

 

I've yet to see a genuine case. As far as I can see it's just a sop to the right.

[Viking Warrior]

View

 

Im not sure this is correct

3) Mother of 3. Kids are taken into care and she is told she has to sort herself out, which she does, even getting a P/T job. Council tell her she must give up 3 bed place or face cuts, which she can't afford but if she gives it up she doesn't get her kids back.

 

That is unlikely to happen .

 

However , If someone is a succesful applicant for job and they have come from outside the area, and no one from that area applies then that individual will be given a bronze priority for Council housing and if somewhere is suitable they will be given that property. I.e someone moving from England to Scotland. Even though they have a house in England

This is not ******** but true. There are certain groups who get priority especially those that move to an area they have never been to .

[trousers]

I've yet to see a genuine case. As far as I can see it's just a sop to the right.

 

I would venture that 'genuine cases' are less likely to make the headlines and whip up a frenzy on social media compared to the 'non-genuine' cases...

[View From The Top]

View

 

Im not sure this is correct

3) Mother of 3. Kids are taken into care and she is told she has to sort herself out, which she does, even getting a P/T job. Council tell her she must give up 3 bed place or face cuts, which she can't afford but if she gives it up she doesn't get her kids back.

 

That is unlikely to happen .

 

However , If someone is a succesful applicant for job and they have come from outside the area, and no one from that area applies then that individual will be given a bronze priority for Council housing and if somewhere is suitable they will be given that property. I.e someone moving from England to Scotland. Even though they have a house in England

This is not ******** but true. There are certain groups who get priority especially those that move to an area they have never been to .

 

Since I know the family concerned in a professional capacity I reckon I might know just what has happened.

[View From The Top]

I would venture that 'genuine cases' are less likely to make the headlines and whip up a frenzy on social media compared to the 'non-genuine' cases...

 

Granted but I've still yet to come across a genuine case in a professional capacity.

[Berkshire Saint]

The spare bedroom is as about far removed from common sense as you can get.

 

Three examples that I've direct experience of.

 

1) Mid 40s man, crippled, after being mowed down by a car, the driver convicted of attempted murder, has 2 bed council place. Wife is diagnosed with breast cancer in the Dec', she dies in the April. They then tell him he has to move or have his income cut although they have no 1 bed places in their inventory.

 

2) Divorceed man, wins court battle to have access to his 2 daughters, again has 2 bed property. Council tell him he has to move to one bed place which means his kids can't stay. Mother takes him back to court using the grounds of unsuitable property & looses the 2 nights per week he could of had them.

 

3) Mother of 3. Kids are taken into care and she is told she has to sort herself out, which she does, even getting a P/T job. Council tell her she must give up 3 bed place or face cuts, which she can't afford but if she gives it up she doesn't get her kids back.

 

Yep, and I have the pleasure of dealing with some of those that are affected by it!

[St Marco]

I am all for this kind of thing if they get paid for the work at minimum wage and they can actually do the job.

 

But I am more for politicians having to make cut backs because every time I read these things it stinks of being hypocritical. First up the second house fund has to go. Why do these people need a second house at our expense? How about buying a block of flats and get them all to stay there? Second up is Additional Costs Allowance (ACA) - paid to reimburse Members for necessary costs incurred when staying overnight away from their main home. Sort of linked to the first one but how about instead of giving them 5 star hotels they stay in B&B or a travel lodge? Third up is hiring of chauffeurs to take them around. Maybe give them a bus pass? Then there is the utilities fund. They are re-imbursed for electricity and water bills. Shouldn't this be coming from their own salaries like everyone else? There are a whole load of other things MPs claim such as a tv licence. Again shouldn't they be paying that?

And my favourite one is that they get paid £400 a month for....food....http://www.frostmagazine.com/2012/11/politicians-get-400-per-month-food-allowance-while-families-go-hungry/ again isn't that what their pay is for?

 

Like I say I am all for this but I think it is time MPs realised that their pay should be used to pay for their lifestyle, their homes, their bills and everything else. Talking about people being scroungers or whatever is a joke when you see what they charge us for.

[Tokyo-Saint]

There was a decent program on TV (think Ch4) about it recently 'how to get a council house'. Showed how the system works and doesn't work in equal measures. You can see the point of getting some dopey cow to either get a job or move out of her 3 bedroom house to let a family in. Then again for every story like this, there was some poor bugger in a 2 bed flat being told to move into a 1 bed flat but then at the same time being told there wasn't one available. Good idea but poorly thought out and implemented,.

[aintforever]

The spare bedroom is as about far removed from common sense as you can get.

 

Three examples that I've direct experience of.

 

1) Mid 40s man, crippled, after being mowed down by a car, the driver convicted of attempted murder, has 2 bed council place. Wife is diagnosed with breast cancer in the Dec', she dies in the April. They then tell him he has to move or have his income cut although they have no 1 bed places in their inventory.

 

2) Divorceed man, wins court battle to have access to his 2 daughters, again has 2 bed property. Council tell him he has to move to one bed place which means his kids can't stay. Mother takes him back to court using the grounds of unsuitable property & looses the 2 nights per week he could of had them.

 

3) Mother of 3. Kids are taken into care and she is told she has to sort herself out, which she does, even getting a P/T job. Council tell her she must give up 3 bed place or face cuts, which she can't afford but if she gives it up she doesn't get her kids back.

 

They should be measures in place to stop people like these being effected but I think generally it's a good idea. I know someone who wouldn't have got a suitable house if it wasn't for someone being shifted out of a 3 bed they didn't need.

[tony13579]

I've yet to see a genuine case. As far as I can see it's just a sop to the right.

 

A person I know has has a modest house converted to cope with her MS paid for by a disability facilities grant. The "spare" room was for an overnight carer she has had her housing benefit reduced.

 

The adaptations... Beams fitted for bed hoists, bath hoists in the downstairs single living room/bedroom/kitchen

She can't even access the "spare" rooms as they are upstairs. In fact she shares her living/bed room space with her assistance dog!

[bridge too far]

Not sure if this will copy OK

 

https://twitter.com/spleenal/status/384719000841646081/photo/1

[Viking Warrior]

Fair enough view from the top . But Not all councils would act like that though

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

As for the hateful 'Bedroom Tax' I'm with VFTT on that - a ill conceived and badly implemented policy brought in by Government that either didn't realise the damage it would inflict on the poorer elements of society - or just didn't care. The fact that both Houses of Parliament endorsed such an abomination of a Act is a disgrace.

 

Re the unemployment benefit matter, it seems to me that hardly a year goes by without the government of the day - from whatever party - taking some action to make life more difficult/unpleasant for the unemployed. I seriously wonder how much longer this process can continue before those on the dole are considered to be a antisocial/pseudo criminal class?

I haven't personally been out of work since the last century, but I'm familiar with someone who now is and I must tell you that claiming unemployment benefit today is not the relatively straightforward process it once was. The policy changes introduced by successive governments means it has become a difficult and deeply stressful experience for a great many of our fellow citizens. Remember these are people who have committed no 'crime' other than to lose their job. I can only hope and pray I don't find myself back in their situation myself one day because you can take it from me that so stressful is the process now that it is leading the more vulnerable unemployed into metal illness or, in extremis, causing some to even consider suicide.

 

Yes the unsupportable scale of the welfare state and the very real problem of our dependency culture needs to be addressed. However the way government is going about doing that lacks the degree of compassion and common decency I expect British citizens to receive from their government.

[badgerx16]

 

Interesting article:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24282840

 

The bloke on the 19th floor will even lose his view next Easter, the tower blocks are coming down. As for the having to register for JSA online - the main Job Centre here is across the road from Central Library, so they simply send all the JSA claimants over to use the public access PCs we have installed, expecting the library staff to walk the jobless through the online processing; ( nobody told the library this was going to happen ).

[Jonnyboy]

Don't see why they aren't getting people to do two days a week instead of fulltime slavery.

[mcjwills]

Whilst working for the benefits when are the poor sods going to look for a job or attend inteviews. Is this work going to be very local to where they live or are they going to have to pay to get to this work. Will they get travelling expenses, I think probably not. So same benefits with greater expense, may as well as just gave a benefit cut instead. If there is all this work available for those able to work for benefits, why is there not a properly paid job. Will be be finding councils will sack employees and get benefit workers for free. Call me a pessimist but I would not trust this govt as far as I could throw them on this issue.

[LGTL]

Whilst working for the benefits when are the poor sods going to look for a job or attend inteviews. Is this work going to be very local to where they live or are they going to have to pay to get to this work. Will they get travelling expenses, I think probably not. So same benefits with greater expense, may as well as just gave a benefit cut instead. If there is all this work available for those able to work for benefits, why is there not a properly paid job. Will be be finding councils will sack employees and get benefit workers for free. Call me a pessimist but I would not trust this govt as far as I could throw them on any issue.

 

Corrected for you.

[Nolan]

Don't see why they aren't getting people to do two days a week instead of fulltime slavery.

 

We could always give them a wage then automatically take off tax, job seeker allowance, housing benefit, council tax benefit, low income utilities discounts, food vouchers, free school dinners etc.

 

That way they could take home, what, maybe 20p per hour?

 

In short, what s wrong with wanting some return for what they're getting?

[Whitey Grandad]

We could always give them a wage then automatically take off tax, job seeker allowance, housing benefit, council tax benefit, low income utilities discounts, food vouchers, free school dinners etc.

 

That way they could take home, what, maybe 20p per hour?

 

In short, what s wrong with wanting some return for what they're getting?

 

At least that would prepare them for working in the real world.

[Sour Mash]

Whilst working for the benefits when are the poor sods going to look for a job or attend inteviews. Is this work going to be very local to where they live or are they going to have to pay to get to this work. Will they get travelling expenses, I think probably not. So same benefits with greater expense, may as well as just gave a benefit cut instead. If there is all this work available for those able to work for benefits, why is there not a properly paid job. Will be be finding councils will sack employees and get benefit workers for free. Call me a pessimist but I would not trust this govt as far as I could throw them on this issue.

Maybe they'll be given the day off to attend interviews? Maybe it will do them good to be in a working environment of some kind, we're often told how long-term unemployed get into a rut and bad habits. Maybe many of this country's tax paying populace want to see that those receiving benefits paid out of our taxes are at least giving a little back to society in return.

[Sour Mash]

 

Interesting article:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24282840

It is. Great to see us tax payers will no longer have to subsidise a house that is bigger/more expensive than they really need.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Most social security goes on the retired. Maybe we should just have a cull.

[Jonnyboy]

It is. Great to see us tax payers will no longer have to subsidise a house that is bigger/more expensive than they really need.

 

You think it'll reduce the tax you pay by even 1p???

[Whitey Grandad]

Most social security goes on the retired. Maybe we should just have a cull.

 

You're confusing pensions with benefits.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Stop covering your own back whitey. We're coming for you!

[Whitey Grandad]

Stop covering your own back whitey. We're coming for you!

 

Watch your step or else all the gramps will be revolting.

[Lord Duckhunter]

As for the hateful 'Bedroom Tax' I'm with VFTT on that - a ill conceived and badly implemented policy brought in by Government that either didn't realise the damage it would inflict on the poorer elements of society - or just didn't care. The fact that both Houses of Parliament endorsed such an abomination of a Act is a disgrace.

 

.

 

What about the fact that social tenants in the private sector don't get a subsidy for any spare bedrooms? Is this a disgrace, or are there deserving and undeserving poor.

[Verbal]

What about the fact that social tenants in the private sector don't get a subsidy for any spare bedrooms? Is this a disgrace, or are there deserving and undeserving poor.

 

I don't undertand this. A social tenant by definition is someone who rents from a council or housing association. Besides, the best known actual abuses of accumulated benefits are in privately owned properties, not those owned by councils and housing associations who - again by definition - tend to own very 'modest' housing stock. And these abuses really have nothing to do with spare bedrooms - they're much more to do with playing the system in (for example) wealthier parts of London.

[Lord Duckhunter]

There are unemployed people or low paid receiving housing benefit that rent off private landlords. These people do not receive a spare room subsidy .

[Verbal]

There are unemployed people or low paid receiving housing benefit that rent off private landlords. These people do not receive a spare room subsidy .

 

Then you're not talking about social tenants, despite your earlier assertion. I'm not aware of anyone receiving an actual subsidy for maintaining an empty room. Besides, it is surely for councils and housing associations to properly manage their housing stocks, rather than for publicity-concious governments to invent crowd-pleasing new and Orwellian ways to humiliate the usual objects of right-wing hate.

 

Wouldn't it be useful - not to say equitable - to have someone who's actually on benefits to add to this thread, rather than allow it to be highjacked by the usual crowing southern smugs?

[dingbattigger]

Genuine question here. If someone is on JSA, do they get their travel costs to the Job Centre refunded?

 

Whether yes or no, a daily visit to the Job Centre is going to cost someone somewhere a fair whack.

 

Interesting article:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24282840

 

 

No travel to the Job Centre is not refunded. My mate was told there is an element of travel in the pittance he received, how right that is I don't know

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I've said on here before about my 2 years of unemployment. I won't go over it all again, but it really was a horrible, soul-destroying experience. One I would not wish on anyone.

 

From my experience, I found contrary to popular belief, that I was actually pretty busy. Looking for, researching, and applying for jobs is a time consuming process.

 

I was applying for jobs of all kinds. Having just recently graduated at the time, I would spend hours filling in applications, and doing tests for graduation placements, internships etc. Or on other day wonder around town going from shop to shop, cafe restaurant etc etc asking for work (usually just to be told to go on the website).

 

I would have to sign on once a week, because I was under 24. I would walk (an hour each way), as the cost was a £5 return on the bus, not a huge amount but when that equates to just shy of 10% your weekly income (£54), which is already stretched massively by making up the discrepancy between my rent and housing.

 

On top of this I also had to go to weekly meetings with a group called Working Links, who were supposed to help me get back into work. Whilst I cannot speak highly enough of my case worked, Emma, who was lovely and extremely conscientious, there simply was not the support on offer for my situation. The group claimed to tailor their service individually to each 'client'. They invited me to attend a session for help on filling in application forms & CVs, when I got there this was actually aimed at people who could not read and write, or who had poor English Language skills. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking these sessions, they are clearly valuable for many people and I'm sure very helpful - but as someone who had just finished an Arts degree at a Russell Group uni - this hardly smacks of "Tailored Service". Not to mention this was located a 90 minute walk (opposite direction to the Job Centre, so I couldn't even try and do these back to back). The one thing they did manage to line up was a placement at the NHS for 2 months. Admin, unpaid, 4 days p/w. I was also to carry on looking for work, as normal, and could still be subject to the usual punishments or having my allowances docked if what I did was not deemed enough. The point of this was to 'gain experience and learn new skills'. I spent nearly all day every day stood at a photocopier, pressing copy - effectively slave labour.

 

Then I was also enrolled in the Work Programme, which does nothing to boost ones confidence with it's almost Nazi-esque connotations. Again another 2 hour round trip, to basically be asked what you are up to, what you are looking for etc etc, without offering any actual help. The most ridiculous part of this, is that because I was compulsorily placed on this scheme, and then subsequently found a job, off my own back through unpaid internships (where you have to stop claiming JSA and can't even get travel expenses £10 a day) and then working at yet another company as an intern.

 

It may sound like a good idea, but it is just another populist bash those that can't do much to defend themselves policy. It makes good copy, and those that are lucky enough to have never been in this situation are bound to get behind "making the lazy job seekers work for their £50 p/w".

 

This is a clever, albeit satirical simulation of the cycle you easily get yourself stuck in, and the attitudes of those unable/unwilling to empathise:

 

http://toys.usvsth3m.com/iain-duncan-smiths-realistic-unemployment-simulator/

[Turkish]

Genuine question here. If someone is on JSA, do they get their travel costs to the Job Centre refunded?

 

Whether yes or no, a daily visit to the Job Centre is going to cost someone somewhere a fair whack.

 

Interesting article:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24282840

 

Walking is free.

[bridge too far]

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2013/10/iain-duncan-smith-tells-bbc-im-too-good-to-pick-up-litter/

[Turkish]

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2013/10/iain-duncan-smith-tells-bbc-im-too-good-to-pick-up-litter/

 

and?

[Sheaf Saint]

[Turkish]

Two unemployed scousers on BBC saying its a good idea to go to the job centre every day as its easy to get demotivated getting knock backs when you're sitting at home every day. BTF won't like that.

[bridge too far]

Two unemployed scousers on BBC saying its a good idea to go to the job centre every day as its easy to get demotivated getting knock backs when you're sitting at home every day. BTF won't like that.

 

And you know this how? I've got no problem with this AS LONG AS a) claimants' benefits aren't further eroded by the cost of daily transport and b) the claimant isn't engaged perhaps in voluntary and charity work / may have childcare responsibilities that impact on the time they have available every day to go to the Job Centres.

 

It wouldn't affect me because I'm retired but I have a friend who lives in a small village about 5 miles from the nearest Job Centre. The village is served by a twice a day bus service. He has a young child just started in primary school. It would be almost impossible for him to drop his child at school, wait for the 'sometime in the morning' bus, visit the JC, wait for the 'sometime in the afternoon' bus that comes too late for him to collect his child from school.

 

So yes, by all means bring in something along these lines but make sure it takes account of the individual rather than herding people like cattle.

 

Read again the post from Kelvins' Right Glove. Oh and don't pretend to know what I think about any particular issue.

[Turkish]

And you know this how? I've got no problem with this AS LONG AS a) claimants' benefits aren't further eroded by the cost of daily transport and b) the claimant isn't engaged perhaps in voluntary and charity work / may have childcare responsibilities that impact on the time they have available every day to go to the Job Centres.

 

It wouldn't affect me because I'm retired but I have a friend who lives in a small village about 5 miles from the nearest Job Centre. The village is served by a twice a day bus service. He has a young child just started in primary school. It would be almost impossible for him to drop his child at school, wait for the 'sometime in the morning' bus, visit the JC, wait for the 'sometime in the afternoon' bus that comes too late for him to collect his child from school.

 

So yes, by all means bring in something along these lines but make sure it takes account of the individual rather than herding people like cattle.

 

Read again the post from Kelvins' Right Glove. Oh and don't pretend to know what I think about any particular issue.

 

BUT BUT BUT, who will pay their bus fares?!!!

 

What would your "friend" do if he got a job?

[bridge too far]

BUT BUT BUT, who will pay their bus fares?!!!

What would your "friend" do if he got a job?

 

Exactly - that's why it's a poorly thought out idea. Who do you think would / should pay the bus fares?

 

If he got a job, he'd be able to afford after school care for his child, wouldn't he

[Turkish]

Exactly - that's why it's a poorly thought out idea. Who do you think would / should pay the bus fares?

 

If he got a job, he'd be able to afford after school care for his child, wouldn't he

 

If they live within a certain distance, say 2 miles, then they can walk. It takes 30 minutes maximum to walk that distance. Over that then they should be given a bus pass. Why do you think they wouldn't take things like that into account?

 

Would he? got an insight into his finances have you? Dont schools to after school clubs these days? There will always be some people who it doesn't suit 100% or will wail "IT'S NOT FAIR!!" but if people want a job they'll do what they can to get one. Glad to see youre doing your usual and being outraged and objecting for everyone else.