Do you think the plan is to play gaston when fit?

[buctootim]

Why would they cost more?

Dont you know how pricing of footballers are done??

 

Price does not equal straight forward performing on the pitch. There´s a lot of other factors to the price of a footballer these days.

 

Simple questions, yet no answer.

 

Go on then do tell. We all know why players might be cheap (old, dodgy medical history, very high wages etc) but if they are really expensive shouldn't they be really good?

Edited 30 September, 2013 by buctootim

[Dig Dig]

No point Olallana. He talks about his ability to debate maturely and then comes up with a reply like that.

[angelman]

Steven Davis, Rodriguez or JWP wouldn't go for £12m would they?

 

Davis didn't cost £12m either. JRod I doubt would have doubled in price but like others think, JWP might well go for that.

 

Put it this way, if Juve or whichever Italian club came in for Gaston with a £12m offer, how many would refuse it?

[alpine_saint]

Simple questions, yet no answer.

 

Hardly. Your questions are ridiculous, and actually add nothing to the discussion, except to distract it, which is a favourite tactic of the sites favourite spin doctor. I suppose someone had to take over when he started begrudging the site his fiver..

 

I really like to know, O enlightened one, if a players value isnt defined by his ability, level of performance and contribution to team achievement, what is it defined by ? Exactly, they were complete nonsense..

[alpine_saint]

Put it this way, if Juve or whichever Italian club came in for Gaston with a £12m offer, how many would refuse it?

 

I'd bite their f**king hand off. We will never get our money back on him.

[Sour Mash]

Davis didn't cost £12m either. JRod I doubt would have doubled in price but like others think, JWP might well go for that.

 

Put it this way, if Juve or whichever Italian club came in for Gaston with a £12m offer, how many would refuse it?

That's my point.

[suewhistle]

I really like to know, if a players value isnt defined by his ability, level of performance and contribution to team achievement, what is it defined by ?

 

By what someone is prepared to pay for him. In addition to your criteria: potential, ability to contribute to the _new_ team, and probably a few other things besides, like league position!

 

But if it helps you feel better by all means talk about grannies stinking of wee [charming] and

a pre-pubescent light-weight player of questionable committment and determination who is off to S. America to warm the bench for his country quicker than you can say "General Galtieri"...

.

 

We are undoubtedly all disappointed about his performances, but most of us are probably thankful that you aren't in charge of motivating players at St. Mary's.

[alpine_saint]

By what someone is prepared to pay for him.

 

Wow, no sh*t Einstein....

 

In addition to your criteria: potential, ability to contribute to the _new_ team, and probably a few other things besides, like league position!

 

 

Riiiiight, so you mean I was largely correct then. Excellent news, was worried for a moment there. Perhaps you could share this revellation with Lost Olallana....

 

 

Sorry if you felt my analogy was a bit charmless, but I was making a point because I find the "we dont need Rickie" movement that seems to be gathering apace on here equally as charmless...

[verlaine1979]

I think it's pretty obvious we paid a small-club premium when we bought Gaston. If one of the big Italians had come in for him then the gravity of their reputation would no doubt have depressed the price and he'd have gone for well under £10m. Considered in that light, I don't actually find his inconsistency that surprising, though obviously I do find it extremely frustrating during matches, but that goes for anyone who gives possession away sloppily.

[alpine_saint]

He cost us 12m. I dont know the breakdown, but I find it highly unlikely Bologna accepted installment payment.

 

We've paid him 60K per week for a year. Another 3m. That's 15m we've paid out.

 

And what have we got in return ? A few pretty passes that make some fans a bit moist, a delicious forearm smash to make Kent Walton and the blue-rinse brigade drop their dentures, and some cracking game-changing goals against.....Barnsley and Bristol City.

 

I get p*ssed off at sloppy surrendering of posesssion, but at least the likes of Danny Fox and Goolie do it cheaply.

[Lets B Avenue]

Wow, no sh*t Einstein....

 

 

 

Riiiiight, so you mean I was largely correct then. Excellent news, was worried for a moment there. Perhaps you could share this revellation with Lost Olallana....

 

 

Sorry if you felt my analogy was a bit charmless, but I was making a point because I find the "we dont need Rickie" movement that seems to be gathering apace on here equally as charmless...

 

There was at time, middle of July I believe, when you went to an actual game and the "fan" in you came to the fore. It made, for many of us on here, a pleasant change as the whole tone of your posts showed an element of joy and fun. It showed in the photo of that match that showed you and your sons.

 

Since then you have resorted to type. Depressing, boringly repetitive and unable to debate without sly insults and put downs. It was pointed out by several that you went missing after our great win at Anfield as you didn't have anything to moan at.

 

The question has been asked often. Why do you bother? Its not just your latest analogy that was "a bit charmless".

[alpine_saint]

There was at time, middle of July I believe, when you went to an actual game and the "fan" in you came to the fore. It made, for many of us on here, a pleasant change as the whole tone of your posts showed an element of joy and fun. It showed in the photo of that match that showed you and your sons.

 

Since then you have resorted to type. Depressing, boringly repetitive and unable to debate without sly insults and put downs. It was pointed out by several that you went missing after our great win at Anfield as you didn't have anything to moan at.

 

The question has been asked often. Why do you bother? Its not just your latest analogy that was "a bit charmless".

 

Wow, another lecture about how to support...

[jasonb]

The new Anders Svenson for me Has all the skill seemingly but just can't seem to get hold of a game and really impose himself on it.

 

He's only young though so plenty of time. I look at players of a similar age like Wilshire and Ramsey and wonder why he can't be as effective as them. They are playing a similar role to him and yet have more dynamism and look for the space a lot more than Gaston. He runs into cul-de-sacs far too much. Perhaps symptomatic of our style of play?

[Lets B Avenue]

Wow, another lecture about how to support...

 

I'm sorry.

 

You are a f***ing tw at.

 

Better?

[Bucks Saint]

I think the plan is to let the window close and keep him. He can then be part of the match day team. He can make sub appearances or maybe even start from time to time. This is all because he cost a lot of money of course, so we just have to keep him. Its not because the new manager and his backroom crew think Gaston has some talent and may offer something to the team. We dont have any record of paying a lot of money for a player and then deciding that they dont have the ability we thought, and shipping them back out again pronto do we? Forren was peanuts, right?

 

In short, the manager thinks he may offer something worthwhile. Thats all

[NickG]

The new Anders Svenson for me Has all the skill seemingly but just can't seem to get hold of a game and really impose himself on it.

 

He's only young though so plenty of time. I look at players of a similar age like Wilshire and Ramsey and wonder why he can't be as effective as them. They are playing a similar role to him and yet have more dynamism and look for the space a lot more than Gaston. He runs into cul-de-sacs far too much. Perhaps symptomatic of our style of play?

 

Ramsey, same age, first two seasons in prem - one goal and two goals. In his third looking amazing...considering Ramirez had a much better return in his first.... Wonder how he will do in his third!

[alpine_saint]

I'm sorry.

 

You are a f***ing tw at.

 

Better?

 

Much better.

[pimpin4rizeal]

This subject frustrates the hell out of me. I really feel gaston takes so much undeserved stick its just unbelievable.

How is he meant to prove his price tag or whatever if hes not getting game time?

Just because mp doesnt seem to rate him does not make him a bad player maybe mp just prefers the headless chicken types like rodriguez to fit the pressing game better.

At the end of the day though gaston has turned in some nice performances like villa arsenal everton last season. And in the everton arsenal games in particular worked his socks off, but u cant judge him on 5 or ten minutes off the bench.

I feel absolutely certain if he had a run of 5 premier league games starts in a row he would create a lot more then the likes of jay rod,.

 

I for one will be very disapointed if he leaves as i really feel he can go on to massive things under a manager that rates him and uses him regularly

Nearly as disapointed as i am with the fans for creating ramirez diss threads all the time.

 

Worst case scenario he adds some creative spark on the bench.

Would u rather not have that option?

[verlaine1979]

He cost us 12m. I dont know the breakdown, but I find it highly unlikely Bologna accepted installment payment.

 

We've paid him 60K per week for a year. Another 3m. That's 15m we've paid out.

 

And what have we got in return ? A few pretty passes that make some fans a bit moist, a delicious forearm smash to make Kent Walton and the blue-rinse brigade drop their dentures, and some cracking game-changing goals against.....Barnsley and Bristol City.

 

I get p*ssed off at sloppy surrendering of posesssion, but at least the likes of Danny Fox and Goolie do it cheaply.

 

So, lets assume for a moment that Gaston proves to be absolutely worthless, eventually leaving on a free (personally I think this very unlikely, and expect him to eventually prove himself an excellent player, but that's immaterial here), my question is - so what? We look a good solid mid-table team. We're not going to go down because of Gaston, just as we'd be unlikely to suddenly turn into CL contenders if he started playing well. Who really gives a crap what kind of player he turns out to be?

[Dig Dig]

This subject frustrates the hell out of me. I really feel gaston takes so much undeserved stick its just unbelievable.

How is he meant to prove his price tag or whatever if hes not getting game time?

Just because mp doesnt seem to rate him does not make him a bad player maybe mp just prefers the headless chicken types like rodriguez to fit the pressing game better.

At the end of the day though gaston has turned in some nice performances like villa arsenal everton last season. And in the everton arsenal games in particular worked his socks off, but u cant judge him on 5 or ten minutes off the bench.

I feel absolutely certain if he had a run of 5 premier league games starts in a row he would create a lot more then the likes of jay rod,.

 

I for one will be very disapointed if he leaves as i really feel he can go on to massive things under a manager that rates him and uses him regularly

Nearly as disapointed as i am with the fans for creating ramirez diss threads all the time.

 

Worst case scenario he adds some creative spark on the bench.

Would u rather not have that option?

 

Indeed. As an example, there would be a thread on here giving Gaston pelters if he had started on Sat and provided the same contribution as Davis who was very uninspiring and unwilling to take any risks with his build up play, mostly just passing the responsibility to someone else. No moans and groans about that though and he goes off to a standing ovation.

 

I'm not saying that there is no room for discussion re Gaston because ultimately he is struggling to get into the first 11 but the criticism on here is way OTT IMO and was particularly frustrating is seeing people revert to lazy stereo types of him being lightweight and lacking in effort which is not the case. The pace of the prem is key thing players have to adapt to, it takes time, especially when you have the interuptions he has had.

[Kingsland Red]

In response to Roger's question, I think too many phases of possession break down around Gaston, and that does not help MP's style of football because he does not forage for it or win it back again.

 

In the same way I am pleasantly surprised that our other 'flair ' signing, Osvaldo, is clearly prepared to do his stint of retrieving for the team.

 

I don't know if NC signed him with NA's knowledge or not, that is history, but like others no longer in the frame, until he is fit and shows some fight, I think Gaston will remain an impact player off the bench.

[The9]

Gaston is doing extra training to get fit. Could he be the answer to the balance between defensive unity and creative spark? Without doubt the most skilful player but needs to hunt the ball more.

 

I think at the moment he's been getting a rest having not had the past two summers off (like Yoshida) and I expect the plan is to pick him more regularly as a starter for home games when he proves he's worth a place. At the moment there are other more effective players ahead of him, but improving his fitness to support an enhanced workrate and maybe some additional strength will certainly help with that.

 

Just look at how well the "get fit by working hard and then start games" worked for Billy Sharp in early 2012.

[The9]

In response to Roger's question, I think too many phases of possession break down around Gaston, and that does not help MP's style of football because he does not forage for it or win it back again.

 

In the same way I am pleasantly surprised that our other 'flair ' signing, Osvaldo, is clearly prepared to do his stint of retrieving for the team.

 

I don't know if NC signed him with NA's knowledge or not, that is history, but like others no longer in the frame, until he is fit and shows some fight, I think Gaston will remain an impact player off the bench.

 

I don't think there's much difference in Gaston's workrate and Osvaldo's to be honest, they could both improve but neither are actually unacceptable.

[The9]

Indeed. As an example, there would be a thread on here giving Gaston pelters if he had started on Sat and provided the same contribution as Davis who was very uninspiring and unwilling to take any risks with his build up play, mostly just passing the responsibility to someone else. No moans and groans about that though and he goes off to a standing ovation.

 

I'm not saying that there is no room for discussion re Gaston because ultimately he is struggling to get into the first 11 but the criticism on here is way OTT IMO and was particularly frustrating is seeing people revert to lazy stereo types of him being lightweight and lacking in effort which is not the case. The pace of the prem is key thing players have to adapt to, it takes time, especially when you have the interuptions he has had.

 

I thought Davis was nearly as poor on Saturday as he was good on Tuesday, and he was pretty good on Tuesday. Davis misplaced a lot of passes on the weekend, but he has his workrate and play-breaking to fall back on. You're right to say Gaston's not lacking in effort or completely lightweight, but equally he can still improve that area a lot, and he does tend to glide into losing the ball which strength would help with, and is often sloppy in passing which is purely a concentration issue when he has the technical ability he does show.

 

My view is that Gaston is excellent technically but needs to apply himself more and not doing so leads to mistakes, whilst, say, Wanyama has all the effort but is never going to be able to be a great passer no matter how he concentrates.

[Dig Dig]

I thought Davis was nearly as poor on Saturday as he was good on Tuesday, and he was pretty good on Tuesday. Davis misplaced a lot of passes on the weekend, but he has his workrate and play-breaking to fall back on. You're right to say Gaston's not lacking in effort or completely lightweight, but equally he can still improve that area a lot, and he does tend to glide into losing the ball which strength would help with, and is often sloppy in passing which is purely a concentration issue when he has the technical ability he does show.

 

My view is that Gaston is excellent technically but needs to apply himself more and not doing so leads to mistakes, whilst, say, Wanyama has all the effort but is never going to be able to be a great passer no matter how he concentrates.

 

It's also a confidence issue as well which won't be helped by number of people who are on his back from the off, especially when he is only getting 10-15 minute stints off the bench in the most part.

 

When he lost the ball with his first touch on Saturday, a fair few around me where foaming at the mouth about it even though he lost it in a very non-threatening position.

[The9]

It's also a confidence issue as well which won't be helped by number of people who are on his back from the off, especially when he is only getting 10-15 minute stints off the bench in the most part.

 

When he lost the ball with his first touch on Saturday, a fair few around me where foaming at the mouth about it even though he lost it in a very non-threatening position.

 

There was a bloke in front of me on Tuesday who turned around to our group every single time Gaston didn't do precisely what the bloke in front of us wanted him to do with the ball. He also turned around after his goal to point out that Gaston's finish was, presumably, the sort of thing he expected him to do with every kick...

[Window Cleaner]

I thought Davis was nearly as poor on Saturday as he was good on Tuesday, and he was pretty good on Tuesday. Davis misplaced a lot of passes on the weekend, but he has his workrate and play-breaking to fall back on. You're right to say Gaston's not lacking in effort or completely lightweight, but equally he can still improve that area a lot, and he does tend to glide into losing the ball which strength would help with, and is often sloppy in passing which is purely a concentration issue when he has the technical ability he does show.

 

My view is that Gaston is excellent technically but needs to apply himself more and not doing so leads to mistakes, whilst, say, Wanyama has all the effort but is never going to be able to be a great passer no matter how he concentrates.

 

I also thought Davis was pretty poor on Saturday, seemingly bent on playing a role that wasn't his to play. Think he has some problems situating himself in the first team schema.

[The9]

I also thought Davis was pretty poor on Saturday, seemingly bent on playing a role that wasn't his to play. Think he has some problems situating himself in the first team schema.

 

What did you think he was trying to do, and what did you think he was doing?

[Window Cleaner]

What did you think he was trying to do, and what did you think he was doing?

 

 

I thought he was supposed to be the most forward of the 3 but seemed intent on centre circle hanging getting under Morgan's feet.

Stream got a bit vague from time to time but I can usually tell the players apart. Perhaps MPo detailed it that way but it seemed to be better in the second half*****il he went off) where the roles were seemingly more as I'd have expected.

 

NB you can't put until in parenthesis on this forum.

[DuncanRG]

Wanyama has all the effort but is never going to be able to be a great passer no matter how he concentrates.

 

What on earth makes you say that? He's 22!

[The9]

I thought he was supposed to be the most forward of the 3 but seemed intent on centre circle hanging getting under Morgan's feet.

Stream got a bit vague from time to time but I can usually tell the players apart. Perhaps MPo detailed it that way but it seemed to be better in the second half*****il he went off) where the roles were seemingly more as I'd have expected.

 

NB you can't put until in parenthesis on this forum.

 

He did seem to be the one "in the hole" when they lined up, I noticed Schneiderlin pushing up alongside him on occasion too, but to be honest anything that gives Wanyama two people to aim at when he passes the ball on the ground in midfield would be a good thing.

 

Oh, and stick a space after the bracket ( until)

Edited 30 September, 2013 by The9

[The9]

What on earth makes you say that? He's 22!

 

Well, I suppose if he focused entirely on that for a few years he might...

[VectisSaint]

Jesus, I am really struggling with the tone of this post.

 

Rickie is a f**king hero who has given his all for this club and has broken into the England squad, not some half-demented granny that stinks of wee invited round for Christmas dinner ! I utterly resent the creeping sentiment on here that he should be shoved towards the exit, and certainly so that space can be made for a pre-pubescent light-weight player of questionable committment and determination who is off to S. America to warm the bench for his country quicker than you can say "General Galtieri"............

Nice post showing support of one of our players - demented granny that stinks of week, pre-pubescent lightweight player. You don't like insults but you sure as hell know how to insult players. Love to know how General Galtieri comes into this. Aparicio Mendez may have made more sense.

 

By the way, players don't actually get a choice about whether they go or not when selected for their national teams, well at least not unless you played for Fergie in which case an excuse would be found if needed.

 

I agree we have not seen the best of Gaston yet, but I know that we have seen some glimpses, and there is a buzz around the ground when he comes on because those who go to games know that there is the chance of something special happening when he plays. But you wouldn't know about that would you.

[alpine_saint]

I agree we have not seen the best of Gaston yet, but I know that we have seen some glimpses, and there is a buzz around the ground when he comes on because those who go to games know that there is the chance of something special happening when he plays. But you wouldn't know about that would you.

 

That's right, because I live in Austria so havent been able to get to many games, and the poor little lamb was recovering from his awfully tough summer for the 2 games I did see....

[VectisSaint]

That's right, because I live in Austria so havent been able to get to many games, and the poor little lamb was recovering from his awfully tough summer for the 2 games I did see....

and General Galtieri, how does he come into it?

[alpine_saint]

and General Galtieri, how does he come into it?

 

Simply first South American name that came into my head, so dont try to seek some deeper meaning or inference. I know they have different nationalities.

[Lord Duckhunter]

People are only defending him because he plays for us. Had Redknapp signed him for QPR and he performed like he has done, it would "prove" what a shiete manager he was.

 

So far in the great Saints web roll of Gaston excuses which has been running for 12 months, we've had ; Young , in a new country, not "saints fit", keeps travelling back for internationals, other players aren't on the same wavelength (my favourite that one),MP will get the best out of him, and we've even had one that Lambert's presence somehow affects his game.

 

All I've seen is a bloke who flatters to deceive, how keeps giving the ball away, plays ok when we're on top in a game, but isn't really a bloke you'd want in the trenches next to you. Rather than getting better, he seems to my untrained eye to be becoming less and less interested. All this for an outlay of £12mil.

 

Tim Vickery said all along he would not make an impact in English football, and from the evidence so far he's been right. Some people want him to do well so badly, that they are overlooking the actual facts. He has been average and is further away from the starting line up than he's ever been.

[alpine_saint]

People are only defending him because he plays for us. Had Redknapp signed him for QPR and he performed like he has done, it would "prove" what a shiete manager he was.

 

So far in the great Saints web roll of Gaston excuses which has been running for 12 months, we've had ; Young , in a new country, not "saints fit", keeps travelling back for internationals, other players aren't on the same wavelength (my favourite that one),MP will get the best out of him, and we've even had one that Lambert's presence somehow affects his game.

 

All I've seen is a bloke who flatters to deceive, how keeps giving the ball away, plays ok when we're on top in a game, but isn't really a bloke you'd want in the trenches next to you. Rather than getting better, he seems to my untrained eye to be becoming less and less interested. All this for an outlay of £12mil.

 

Tim Vickery said all along he would not make an impact in English football, and from the evidence so far he's been right. Some people want him to do well so badly, that they are overlooking the actual facts. He has been average and is further away from the starting line up than he's ever been.

 

Absolutely spot-on. Couldnt have summarised the situation better.

[Andy Durman]

I really respect your patience/tolerance/continued support of this player, Roger. You clearly get behind everything that sports an SFC club logo - my compliements.

 

Sadly the only thing I expect is that he will be gone in the summer.

 

While we carry on getting results he will be unable to get back in the team (he just doesnt have the fight about him, and why shoudl he bother on 60K per week ?), and imo its not even clear that he fits MPs style of play. I am not convinced that fitness is the issue here. Admittedly, p*ssing off on a 14,000 mile round trip every time the Uruguayan FA clicks their fingers and expects him to sit on the bench isnt helpful, but how long does an "only 22 FFS" require to get f**king fit ? Its 14 months and counting now, imo.

 

Hi Alpine hope you & your family are well.

 

I have to disagree.

 

The Gaston we bought sadly was not good enough for the Premier league.

 

We are therefore having to train him into a player who can live in the Premier league. he must be fitter, but most of all he must be physically stronger.

 

He has the ability. The rest will come and will take time. We must not write him off yet.

 

Although if somebody wants to offer 25 million we should take it at the moment.

[Bucks Saint]

People are only defending him because he plays for us. Had Redknapp signed him for QPR and he performed like he has done, it would "prove" what a shiete manager he was.

 

So far in the great Saints web roll of Gaston excuses which has been running for 12 months, we've had ; Young , in a new country, not "saints fit", keeps travelling back for internationals, other players aren't on the same wavelength (my favourite that one),MP will get the best out of him, and we've even had one that Lambert's presence somehow affects his game.

 

All I've seen is a bloke who flatters to deceive, how keeps giving the ball away, plays ok when we're on top in a game, but isn't really a bloke you'd want in the trenches next to you. Rather than getting better, he seems to my untrained eye to be becoming less and less interested. All this for an outlay of £12mil.

 

Tim Vickery said all along he would not make an impact in English football, and from the evidence so far he's been right. Some people want him to do well so badly, that they are overlooking the actual facts. He has been average and is further away from the starting line up than he's ever been.

 

And yet, one long and active transfer window later he is still here. Not banished to train away from the first team, until he secures a move. Among the substitutes regularly and often actually makes it onto the pitch. The subject of additional effort and time from the coaching staff. All of which says the manager sees a future for him. Good.

[alpine_saint]

Hi Alpine hope you & your family are well.

 

I have to disagree.

 

The Gaston we bought sadly was not good enough for the Premier league.

 

We are therefore having to train him into a player who can live in the Premier league. he must be fitter, but most of all he must be physically stronger.

 

He has the ability. The rest will come and will take time. We must not write him off yet.

 

Although if somebody wants to offer 25 million we should take it at the moment.

 

Hi Andy,

 

Nice to see we are building on those two great performances in Villach, eh ?

 

I can live with your position on this. But at some point the club has to cut its losses, imo.

 

Next season he will either be a key player or gone, I think. At the moment I suspect its more likely to be the latter than the former.

[VectisSaint]

Simply first South American name that came into my head, so dont try to seek some deeper meaning or inference. I know they have different nationalities.

Of course, comes into the head easily, surprised you didn't consider Eva Peron first. LOL.

[buctootim]

And yet, one long and active transfer window later he is still here. Not banished to train away from the first team, until he secures a move. Among the substitutes regularly and often actually makes it onto the pitch. The subject of additional effort and time from the coaching staff. All of which says the manager sees a future for him. Good.

 

Isnt this more to do with trying to salvage the situation? Tim Vickery who Lord DH mentioned was prescient about Ramirez last year before he signed (starts 5m:30s)

http://talksport.com/radio/hawksbee-and-jacobs/120607/vickery-why-ramirez-would-not-be-good-signing-spurs-173873

[View From The Top]

Personally I think the fella is absolute quality. However, the pace of the game and the fitness required do, currently, appear too much for him.

[Bucks Saint]

Isnt this more to do with trying to salvage the situation? Tim Vickery who Lord DH mentioned was prescient about Ramirez last year before he signed (starts 5m:30s)

http://talksport.com/radio/hawksbee-and-jacobs/120607/vickery-why-ramirez-would-not-be-good-signing-spurs-173873

 

No I dont think so. For the reasons I mentioned, there is no sign of shipping him out / convincing him to move, but plenty to say there is belief in him by the manager and coaching staff. We would not be putting him on the pitch, even for 5 mins, if we had given up and wanted rid

[buctootim]

No I dont think so. For the reasons I mentioned, there is no sign of shipping him out / convincing him to move, but plenty to say there is belief in him by the manager and coaching staff. We would not be putting him on the pitch, even for 5 mins, if we had given up and wanted rid

 

I think its more a case of maintaining and painting a house you want to sell and putting it in the Estate agents window on a Saturday afternoon - but I do agree he has talent and its possible he could still turn things around.