Do you think the plan is to play gaston when fit?

[Roger]

Gaston is doing extra training to get fit. Could he be the answer to the balance between defensive unity and creative spark? Without doubt the most skilful player but needs to hunt the ball more.

[Suhari]

Sadly not. He has been written off by swf consensus, and therefore should be loaned out to Bognor reserves.

 

Personally I think he'll work his way into the team and have a cracking season supporting Issue.

[alpine_saint]

I really respect your patience/tolerance/continued support of this player, Roger. You clearly get behind everything that sports an SFC club logo - my compliements.

 

Sadly the only thing I expect is that he will be gone in the summer.

 

While we carry on getting results he will be unable to get back in the team (he just doesnt have the fight about him, and why shoudl he bother on 60K per week ?), and imo its not even clear that he fits MPs style of play. I am not convinced that fitness is the issue here. Admittedly, p*ssing off on a 14,000 mile round trip every time the Uruguayan FA clicks their fingers and expects him to sit on the bench isnt helpful, but how long does an "only 22 FFS" require to get f**king fit ? Its 14 months and counting now, imo.

[SaintNeil90]

Agree with Alpine on this one...

 

For £12m, he has done absolutely nothing. He looks disinterested in games, walks around and has no fight. He seems to only be putting in a half hearted effort.

 

Against Bristol City (A **** poor League One side), yes he scored, but the rest of the game he spent losing the ball.

[Minsk]

I think it is a squad game and at some point this season - whether due to injury, illness, suspensions, or simply tactics - he will be in the starting line-up. When that happens it will be up to him to make himself undroppable. However, whilst we are on a winning or unbeaten streak and creating plenty of chances I expect him to remain on the bench.

[Wade Garrett]

Imagine if he could get as fit as Morgan or Steve Davis. We would have a hell of a player on our hands.

[Sour Mash]

The commentators on the Football first highlights on sky said that MP had brought in Davis for Rodriguez in order to keep hold of the ball more; if it’s that important for MP, can’t see him starting Ramirez in too many games.

 

I think Ramirez must be fit by now, he completed 90mins against Barnsley back in August and another last week.

[Colinjb]

The commentators on the Football first highlights on sky said that MP had brought in Davis for Rodriguez in order to keep hold of the ball more; if it’s that important for MP, can’t see him starting Ramirez in too many games.

 

I think Ramirez must be fit by now, he completed 90mins against Barnsley back in August and another last week.

 

If purely retaining the ball is a key factor then Victor Wanyama will do well to keep his place in the side, but he will stay because his strengths lay elsewhere. Personally i'm glad we have the depth in squad to keep Ramirez out of the team and have as a tactical option should he be required. He needs first team action to get sharp but is being kept out by players who are in better form. Catch 22.

[Sour Mash]

If purely retaining the ball is a key factor then Victor Wanyama will do well to keep his place in the side, but he will stay because his strengths lay elsewhere. Personally i'm glad we have the depth in squad to keep Ramirez out of the team and have as a tactical option should he be required. He needs first team action to get sharp but is being kept out by players who are in better form. Catch 22.

But Wanyama makes up for any of that by being able to win the ball back quickly, not really the case with Ramirez. See MP’s quotes about our defensive approach starting from keeping possession.

 

For what it’s worth, I’d like to see Ramirez, as he’d give us that potential spark of genius that I think we’ve been lacking so far, but I can’t see MP trusting him enough to give him the game time as things currently stand.

[Dig Dig]

Agree with Alpine on this one...

 

For £12m, he has done absolutely nothing. He looks disinterested in games, walks around and has no fight. He seems to only be putting in a half hearted effort.

 

Against Bristol City (A **** poor League One side), yes he scored, but the rest of the game he spent losing the ball.

 

Done absolutely nothing? You obviously must have missed his goals and assists which helped to keep us up last season?

[Colinjb]

But Wanyama makes up for any of that by being able to win the ball back quickly, not really the case with Ramirez. See MP’s quotes about our defensive approach starting from keeping possession.

 

For what it’s worth, I’d like to see Ramirez, as he’d give us that potential spark of genius that I think we’ve been lacking so far, but I can’t see MP trusting him enough to give him the game time as things currently stand.

 

As I said, his strengths lay elsewhere.

 

I agree with your reasoning for starting Gaston. We need a little bit of flair in the mix and I believe that could help bring the best out of Dani and Rickie. I feel he would be more effective then Jay right now. It's a pity that the most driven I have ever seen Gaston was for a fleeting five minutes against West Brom when he looked to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Sadly he also took their midfielder in the face with his arm.

[St Louis]

I'm not sure if anybody else noticed this (and maybe there is nothing to it) but my friend and I noticed that after the Palace win, whilst all of the other players and subs were on the pitch celebrating and applauding the crowd, Ramirez just walked straight off down the tunnel on his own.

Whilst JWP and the other subs looked delighted that the 'team' had won, GR showed signs that he isn't content to just be part of the 'squad'.

Maybe I'm reading something into nothing....

[DuncanRG]

Personally i'm glad we have the depth in squad to keep Ramirez out of the team and have as a tactical option should he be required. He needs first team action to get sharp but is being kept out by players who are in better form. Catch 22.

 

This is it, really.

 

It is a worry if fitness is still his issue but, as people have been saying for over a year now, he's been overworked for club and country and fatigue is no surprise. I hope the staff can help him work it out.

[Saint_clark]

I'm not sure if anybody else noticed this (and maybe there is nothing to it) but my friend and I noticed that after the Palace win, whilst all of the other players and subs were on the pitch celebrating and applauding the crowd, Ramirez just walked straight off down the tunnel on his own.

Whilst JWP and the other subs looked delighted that the 'team' had won, GR showed signs that he isn't content to just be part of the 'squad'.

Maybe I'm reading something into nothing....

 

He's always gone mental whenever I've seen the subs bench after scoring/final whistle.

I still can't believe people are writing him off so early.

[St Louis]

He's always gone mental whenever I've seen the subs bench after scoring/final whistle.

I still can't believe people are writing him off so early.

 

Maybe he just need a 'Puncheon' then and had to rush off

 

I'm certainly not writing him off, I' one of those that like him as a player.

 

I think if we have been lacking anything this season its a bit more creativity and he can certainly offer that. Whether or not he should be a starter is what I'm undecided on though.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Done absolutely nothing? You obviously must have missed his goals and assists which helped to keep us up last season?

 

Complete nonsense.

 

We would have stayed up regardless. We wouldn't have played with 10 had he not signed, someone else would have played and would have contributed. Maybe we couple have signed someone else with the money we Spunked on him. I can't think of one game when I came away thinking" we'd have lost that if Gaston wasn't playing".

 

He has been a monumental waste of money, had he been a harry redknapp or fat sam signing people on this forum would be ****ing their pants.

[Sour Mash]

This is it, really.

 

It is a worry if fitness is still his issue but, as people have been saying for over a year now, he's been overworked for club and country and fatigue is no surprise. I hope the staff can help him work it out.

He's hardly played for club or country in the last year, so fatigue really shouldn't be an issue.

[The Kraken]

He's hardly played for club or country in the last year, so fatigue really shouldn't be an issue.

 

Having watched him in the Bristol City game it certainly wasn't; his fitness and effort put in were one thing that I didn't find fault with at all. He was just below par from start to finish in his general play, while he punctuated that with 2 or 3 occasions of individual brilliance.

[Dig Dig]

Complete nonsense.

 

We would have stayed up regardless. We wouldn't have played with 10 had he not signed, someone else would have played and would have contributed. Maybe we couple have signed someone else with the money we Spunked on him. I can't think of one game when I came away thinking" we'd have lost that if Gaston wasn't playing".

 

He has been a monumental waste of money, had he been a harry redknapp or fat sam signing people on this forum would be ****ing their pants.

 

I obviously don't have access to your crystal ball so can't say what would have happened had Gaton not started the games he played last year, at least not with the complete (and arrogant) certainty as you.

 

Based on what he did do, he was instrumental in the wins against Villa and Newcastle at home and also was very good in the home draws against Everton and Arsenal. If you think those 8 points were earn't in spite of Gastons contributions then fair enough but I wouldn't be so sure that the likes of Guly and Davis would have come in and made the same contribution.

 

A little harsh if those that wrote him off are unable to recognise the good he has done here by simply stating that someone else would have done it instead.

[Saint_clark]

I obviously don't have access to your crystal ball so can't say what would have happened had Gaton not started the games he played last year, at least not with the complete (and arrogant) certainty as you.

 

Based on what he did do, he was instrumental in the wins against Villa and Newcastle at home and also was very good in the home draws against Everton and Arsenal. If you think those 8 points were earn't in spite of Gastons contributions then fair enough but I wouldn't be so sure that the likes of Guly and Davis would have come in and made the same contribution.

 

A little harsh if those that wrote him off are unable to recognise the good he has done here by simply stating that someone else would have done it instead.

 

Similarly, if we hadn't signed Lambert someone else would have played so who's to say they wouldn't have 100+ goals for us now...

[simo]

How long do you give him though ?

[Saint_clark]

How long do you give him though ?

 

He was signed for £12million for 4 (?) years, so wait until the end of his original contract at least to see if he pays it back.

[Colinjb]

He was signed for £12million for 4 (?) years, so wait until the end of his original contract at least to see if he pays it back.

 

If it is eventually deemed that he hasn't earnt his keep then I would expect him to leave after 2.5/3 years of his contract while he still has some kind of sale value.

[buctootim]

He was signed for £12million for 4 (?) years, so wait until the end of his original contract at least to see if he pays it back.

 

Er it doesn't work like that. The reason for signing young players is that you get back what you paid when you sell, not that you take a £12m hit. I doubt we'd get the purchase price back atm.

[Saint_clark]

Er it doesn't work like that. The reason for signing young players is that you get back what you paid when you sell, not that you take a £12m hit. I doubt we'd get the purchase price back atm.

 

I'm not saying we should let him go after four years, I'm saying we should judge whether he has been worth the outlay after four years. If we sell him on for more than we bought him for before that time, then it could be argued he was worth it. If he is still with us, has signed a new contract and is an important part of a squad that is still in the Prem then I would also say that's worth it.

[The Kraken]

I'm not saying we should let him go after four years, I'm saying we should judge whether he has been worth the outlay after four years. If we sell him on for more than we bought him for before that time, then it could be argued he was worth it. If he is still with us, has signed a new contract and is an important part of a squad that is still in the Prem then I would also say that's worth it.

 

Does that work for all players, then? They only get judged at the end of their contract and never part way through? Only I'm sure I've seen quite a few comments about Dejan Lovren claiming him to be the bargain of the season, an absolute snip etc. Which seems like fair comment to me; it's entirely reasonable to judge a player on what you've seen so far.

[Window Cleaner]

Gaston will become a major player for us once we can filter Lambert out of the system, until then he'll be a bit part player which is OK because he's got plenty of time. You cannot start with Gaston,Osvaldo,Lallana and Lambert and as we're not going to drop any of the other 3 just yet Gaston will have to bide his time and we need to be patient about that..We've been lucky so far 6 games when we've been able to call on all of our first rate players except Clyne (and how that cost us at Norwich) but you can never tell how long that will remain the case.

[buctootim]

Gaston will become a major player for us once we can filter Lambert out of the system, until then he'll be a bit part player.... You cannot start with Gaston,Osvaldo,Lallana and Lambert and as we're not going to drop any of the other 3 just yet

 

But why shouldn't Gaston be outperforming Lallana in training and forcing his way into the team? We paid £12m for him, its not unreasonable to expect him to be better than a player worth perhaps half that.

[John Boy Saint]

At the moment I see no motivation in him, 22 years old a reputed £60K per week £3m per year for training most of the week then sitting on your bum every Saturday afternoon easy life. You would think that getting overlooked by the manager who has opted for a £750K player and an 18 year old academy product over you in the starting line up would spark some fire in the belly but obviously not. Tadanari Lee seems to have gotten fired up and back in the Managers thoughts (obviously the Japanese national team is already on the plane to Brazil, so that helps).

 

What baffles me is so many on here are still holding a candle for Gaston (and I will no doubt get a kicking off some). The bloke cost £12m which is not a shabby amount of money, he has been here 12 months and in all honesty has been pretty disappointing and heading towards a file near to Augustin Delgardo. If he had cost as much as Steve de Ridder we would not have seen a trace of him over the past 6 league games.

[alpine_saint]

Gaston will become a major player for us once we can filter Lambert out of the system, until then he'll be a bit part player which is OK because he's got plenty of time. You cannot start with Gaston,Osvaldo,Lallana and Lambert and as we're not going to drop any of the other 3 just yet Gaston will have to bide his time and we need to be patient about that..We've been lucky so far 6 games when we've been able to call on all of our first rate players except Clyne (and how that cost us at Norwich) but you can never tell how long that will remain the case.

 

Jesus, I am really struggling with the tone of this post.

 

Rickie is a f**king hero who has given his all for this club and has broken into the England squad, not some half-demented granny that stinks of wee invited round for Christmas dinner ! I utterly resent the creeping sentiment on here that he should be shoved towards the exit, and certainly so that space can be made for a pre-pubescent light-weight player of questionable committment and determination who is off to S. America to warm the bench for his country quicker than you can say "General Galtieri"............

[SaintNeil90]

Done absolutely nothing? You obviously must have missed his goals and assists which helped to keep us up last season?

 

We'd have stayed up without Gaston.

 

A £12m player for a club like us should be invaluable... but he isnt.

 

The type of player he is and the type of talent he supposedly has, we should be thinking, he can really change a game if he comes on... but he doesn't.

[alpine_saint]

Yep, a 12m asset is sat on the bench, depreciating with every second of game time.....

[Whitey Grandad]

£12m is pretty much average for a good Premiership player these days.

[saint1977]

I'm not sure if anybody else noticed this (and maybe there is nothing to it) but my friend and I noticed that after the Palace win, whilst all of the other players and subs were on the pitch celebrating and applauding the crowd, Ramirez just walked straight off down the tunnel on his own.

Whilst JWP and the other subs looked delighted that the 'team' had won, GR showed signs that he isn't content to just be part of the 'squad'.

Maybe I'm reading something into nothing....

 

I also noted this from my seat in Itchen block 10 and thought it unusual as Gaston is normally the first to celebrate goals/wins etc. We all have days at work like that though and other days when we want to keep ourselves to ourselves so not too much should be read into it. Gaston had a brilliant first touch when he came on and then a blind backheel to no-one, summed up his time with us a little bit! Fans sung his name though.

 

The player he has the best chance of dislodging is Lallana. People talk about Gaston's inconsistency but whilst I've always been a big fan of Adam's, so is he. There were two different Lallanas on Saturday - the lively, creative, buzzing one that was taking people on in the second half and moving the ball too quickly for Palace and the ponderous, slow and predictable one that was lucky not to be subbed at HT. Davis and J Rod, whilst I also like them as players too, haven't cemented a first XI place for a run of 15-20 starts so there is potential for Gaston to get ahead of them IF he can improve his fitness - and therefore his ball retention and consistency one would hope.

[Window Cleaner]

But why shouldn't Gaston be outperforming Lallana in training and forcing his way into the team? We paid £12m for him, its not unreasonable to expect him to be better than a player worth perhaps half that.

 

we won't drop Lallana come what may, why ? I just couldn't say but even when he was dire we didn't drop him so now that he's performing better in all aspects except the final touch it's not likely to happen. Lallana has upped his game these last couple of weeks so I guess you could say our perserverance has paid off there, if he could just start scoring some of the very realisable chances he gets or creates he would be a top,top player. As I've said before most of our players are now worth nigh on 12 million so Gaston's price tag really is no longer relevant; If we were to put Lallana onto the market today he'd be priced at way over 12 million, Lambert would be too apart from his age, Dani well we know how much he cost, same as Wanyama, Morgan we turned down 14 milion from Sociedad and I very much doubt that JWP would fetch less than Gaston's purchase price. So there you have it, it's a contest amongst equal for a starting spot and as Gaston's pre-season was sort of non-existent MPo prefers to rely on the players he's worked with all summer.

Edited 30 September, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[RobM]

If we're ever going to reach the dizzy heights we all wish for, we'll have to get used to having players like Gaston on the bench. In fact, that should be the minimum we expect.

[alpine_saint]

If we're ever going to reach the dizzy heights we all wish for, we'll have to get used to having players like Gaston on the bench. In fact, that should be the minimum we expect.

 

I dont have a problem with that. But you would assume that means the 11 on the pitch cost more.

 

Most of them dont. They are not more expensive, just more interested/motivated/committed.

[Giordano]

I don't think the plan is to play Gaston when fit. I think he is fit already. I think "the plan" is to use him when needed, but our default starting line up, until and unless we get injuries suspensions or loss of form, does not currently include him. We are doing "alright" as we are. IF (or rather i should say WHEN) we start losing or the Inj/susp/loss of form kicks in then he may well start more games. Until then, I don't think he will.

 

For me, nine out of the eleven positions in the team are now automatic: Boruc, LS, Lovren, Fonte, NC, VW, MS, SRL and Osvaldo.

 

The two I consider most interchangeable currently - Adam and SD - are the most likely to be substituted according to match situations. MP has already shown his hand with this if you observe his teams and subs this season to date.

 

JWP, JC, GR and JRod can play those positions. If we need to attack and win then Jrod and GR are the options, if we need to defend or hold then JWP and JC are the options. GR is the least defensive of those left on the bench who could replace either of AL/SD but he is also the most likely to do something special. Its a trade-off.

 

FWIW, its not the teams that do well in September that win the league, avoid relegation, win cups get European football. Its the teams that have got the squad quality and depth to cope with the inevitable injuries suspensions and loss of form that the grind of the season creates in the run-in period. Spring 2014 will show which squad has the most depth. We have the strongest deepest squad that i can remember, and relative to other mid and lower table teams I see no others markedly superior - in fact I regard see our squad as clearly superior to all but the top ten of last year and "as good as" or near as dammit to the 10th to 6th placed teams.

Edited 30 September, 2013 by Giordano

[Sour Mash]

we won't drop Lallana come what may, why ? I just couldn't say but even when he was dire we didn't drop him so now that he's performing better in all aspects except the final touch it's not likely to happen. Lallana has upped his game these last couple of weeks so I guess you could say our perserverance has paid off there, if he could just start scoring some of the very realisable chances he gets or creates he would be a top,top player. As I've said before most of our players are now worth nigh on 12 million so Gaston's price tag really is no longer relevant; If we were to put Lallana onto the market today he'd be priced at way over 12 million, Lambert would be too apart from his age, Dani well we know how much he cost, same as Wanyama, Morgan we turned down 14 milion from Sociedad and I very much doubt that JWP would fetch less than Gaston's purchase price. So there you have it, it's a contest amongst equal for a starting spot and as Gaston's pre-season was sort of non-existent MPo prefers to rely on the players he's worked with all summer.

Steven Davis, Rodriguez or JWP wouldn't go for £12m would they?

[Giordano]

we won't drop Lallana come what may, why ? I just couldn't say but even when he was dire we didn't drop him so now that he's performing better in all aspects except the final touch it's not likely to happen. Lallana has upped his game these last couple of weeks so I guess you could say our perserverance has paid off there, if he could just start scoring some of the very realisable chances he gets or creates he would be a top,top player. As I've said before most of our players are now worth nigh on 12 million so Gaston's price tag really is no longer relevant; If we were to put Lallana onto the market today he'd be priced at way over 12 million, Lambert would be too apart from his age, Dani well we know how much he cost, same as Wanyama, Morgan we turned down 14 milion from Sociedad and I very much doubt that JWP would fetch less than Gaston's purchase price. So there you have it, it's a contest amongst equal for a starting spot and as Gaston's pre-season was sort of non-existent MPo prefers to rely on the players he's worked with all summer.

 

That's a very good point. IMO The current Saints starting 11 probably ( Boruc and Lambert apart) don't get valued or salaried at under what a £10m player is worth or gets - and with those two its only age related - im sure they get £10m player packages/salaries. A £12m player bought from outside is NOT an automatic starter like we would all have assumed barely 18 months ago.....he is on a par with the rest of the first team squad. Osvaldo at whatever he was starts to push the outside of the envelope that was already widened when we didn't automatically start a £7m Jrod previously......the "must play" minimum fee is rising....right now only a £20m player would probably get a guaranteed start at Saints...and which of our players on current form is that? None really but by end of season I hope Osvaldo, Lovren, MS, Shaw and Bigvic have reached those heady heights.

[John Boy Saint]

Steven Davis, Rodriguez or JWP wouldn't go for £12m would they?

JWP could very easily as he fits all the criteria of required squad make up: English and home grown. If Henderson went to Liverpool for £18m (and is nowhere near worth that pricetag) and he met that English home grown criteria, then JWP for £12m highly possible even more once he starts rattling them in to the onion bag.

[Window Cleaner]

Steven Davis, Rodriguez or JWP wouldn't go for £12m would they?

 

JWP might well, England U21 and they've got previous for fetching very silly fees at a very young age. Shaw is oft bandied about at way over that and he's probably no better than JWP, just that he doesn't have the same competition for his starting place.

[DuncanRG]

I dont have a problem with that. But you would assume that means the 11 on the pitch cost more.

 

Most of them dont. They are not more expensive, just more interested/motivated/committed.

 

That's pure conjecture. Besides, when's the last time our best player was also our most expensive? That correlation is rare for any club.

[Sour Mash]

JWP might well, England U21 and they've got previous for fetching very silly fees at a very young age. Shaw is oft bandied about at way over that and he's probably no better than JWP, just that he doesn't have the same competition for his starting place.

Yes, that's why we're always seeing articles linking JWP to moves to Chelsea and Man Utd, the same as Shaw aren't we? What about S. Davis and Rodriguez who you also value at £12m?

[Olallana]

Jesus, I am really struggling with the tone of this post.

 

Rickie is a f**king hero who has given his all for this club and has broken into the England squad, not some half-demented granny that stinks of wee invited round for Christmas dinner ! I utterly resent the creeping sentiment on here that he should be shoved towards the exit, and certainly so that space can be made for a pre-pubescent light-weight player of questionable committment and determination who is off to S. America to warm the bench for his country quicker than you can say "General Galtieri"............

 

I thought your basic "defense" for your opinions here is that it should be allowed to have different opinions....

 

And what happens when someone has a different opinion to yours??

Answer to that, see above.

[Olallana]

I dont have a problem with that. But you would assume that means the 11 on the pitch cost more.

 

Most of them dont. They are not more expensive, just more interested/motivated/committed.

 

Why would they cost more?

Dont you know how pricing of footballers are done??

 

Price does not equal straight forward performing on the pitch. There´s a lot of other factors to the price of a footballer these days.

[alpine_saint]

I thought your basic "defense" for your opinions here is that it should be allowed to have different opinions....

 

And what happens when someone has a different opinion to yours??

Answer to that, see above.

 

Indeed, I expressed my outrage at the message of the post without resorting to personal abuse.

 

But thanks for highlighting the fact that I respond more maturely than a lot of you.

[alpine_saint]

Why would they cost more?

Dont you know how pricing of footballers are done??

 

Price does not equal straight forward performing on the pitch. There´s a lot of other factors to the price of a footballer these days.

 

Superb NickGing. My compliements, sir.

[Olallana]

Indeed, I expressed my outrage at the message of the post without resorting to personal abuse.

 

But thanks for highlighting the fact that I respond more maturely than a lot of you.

 

And no abuse towards a player of ours at all, not to forget.....

oh.....

[Olallana]

Superb NickGing. My compliements, sir.

 

Simple questions, yet no answer.