Qatar's World Cup slaves

[bridge too far]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves?CMP=twt_gu

 

No doubt someone will Phil us in on this

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Dreadful, dreadful choice for world cup. No credible football history or culture, terrible record on human rights, **** all for fans to do outside of games and all of it built on quasi-slave labour.

[sandwichsaint]

Unbelievable, and anybody that 'holidays' here is complicit in this as well.

[dubai_phil]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves?CMP=twt_gu

 

No doubt someone will Phil us in on this

You did ask BtF

 

I cannot quote on Qatar as I know nothing about the specific details. I can give some input (based on the reality of the situation that existed here during the "Boom" which the UK media covered (IMHO without actually reporting ALL the details of course)

 

The investigation also reveals:

 

•Evidence of forced labour on a huge World Cup infrastructure project.

 

In English, this means that the Projects are being awarded with huge Penalty clauses for Cost or Time over-runs. ALL Companies operating in the ME must have a Local Sponsor so to a UK Journo that will say Qatari owned. The REALITY is that the "owner" signs a contract and holds a NOMINAL 51% and takes a fee with the share value being in the form of fees rather than the UK version of a saleable on the stock exchange deal. Researchers should look into the ACTUAL minority shareholder, In Qatar many actual companies will be foreign owned, many Chinese. Workers WILL be pressured hours WILL be extended, it is a negotiation issue not a culture/slavery issue

 

 

• Some Nepalese men have alleged that they have not been paid for months and have had their salaries retained to stop them running away.

 

 

 

Very common in this region. Owner gets a project cannot afford to do the work people do not get paid. Common trait amongst small/medium sized Arabic owned business. In MITIGATION from experience the Qatari's were VERY slow paying for the Asian Games Infrastructure. As in by about 5 years. ME based comanies know that and would only bid IF they had the cash flow to cope, Overseas firms will have come in all Mr Know it All, ignored us locals and been screwed. Workers have to file a complaint with the Labour Ministry. Workers are OWNED by their Employer (ie Visas & Staff Accomodation). No cash flow the MoL will have to cancel their visas and arrange to repatriate the workers.

UNFORTUNATELY a Recruitment Mafia exists, so many of the poor sods will have given their meagre life savings to an agent to get them the job in the first place.Some will still have to pay that debt back. Hence they are trapped - go to Ministry - never get anything. Hang around and starve and pray.

Situation on this HAS changed in recent years in UAE a number of Charities have sprung up and MoL here take a security deposit of 1.5 x month salary and cost of Airticket home so the workers can get something if they are screwed. UK abuses it's Labour as well don't forget (Cocklepickers)

 

Note: EVERY employee receives a Salary that is agreed and contracted. EVERY employee then EARNS a Gratuity 25 days per year. So this article is factually correct for EVERY worker in the ME. However the Gratuity is the ONLY form of "Pension" that we have. We resign up to 5 years (of sorry run away) we get less - BECAUSE IT COSTS ON AVERAGE $3000 in fees and paperwork & flights to recruit ONE single employee.

 

• Some workers on other sites say employers routinely confiscate passports and refuse to issue ID cards, in effect reducing them to the status of illegal aliens.

 

 

Normal practice even here in Dubai, It is done to stop workers running away for another job. An employer will be fined for NOT cancelling a visa and will be blacklisted for new Visas IF employees abscond (and they do). This CANNOT change as it is the entire backbone of the Immigration System here (it IS actually an idea the UK should have used but hey ho)

 

Keeping Passports IS illegal here in UAE (no idea about Qatar) But SMB Arab owners do it all the time

 

• Some labourers say they have been denied access to free drinking water in the desert heat.

 

 

No doubts about this whatsoever. It was Ramadan a couple of months ago it is ILLEGAL to let ANYTHING pass your lips in public in daylight ANYWHERE in the Middle East. Qatar is more strict than Dubai, Labour force will be mixed Religions. Enlightened Employers find ways around. MANY SMB Arab owned employers will not care. This impacted even ME last year. I and many of the guys in our factory smoke. Normally we take a break outdoors (even when it is 46C). In Ramadan I had to break Global Company rules by permitting Smoking in the Gents Toilet. HR had a huge rules & ethics issue about it I won - told THEM to rent me a Portacabin & get all the permissions.

 

• About 30 Nepalese sought refuge at their embassy in Doha to escape the brutal conditions of their employment.

 

 

Is that all? It IS a common occurrence, when you are in a society with zero Social Security for foreigners you have no choice.

 

Here is what you will see next

 

Stories of Workers being forced to live in cramped 40ft containers with no sanitation

(NATO Military & Contractors have been doing that in Afghanistan for the past 5 years)

OF COURSE THEY ARE! Duh.

 

You need to bring in 200,000 workers to BUILD AN INFRASTRUCTURE, Well, guess what, that means Electricity Supplies, Sewerage & Water Distribution Systems. There IS no accomodation for the Workers UNTIL it gets built. It was exactly the same story here in the boom (Sonapur Labour Camp BBC).

What the Journos DON'T mention is that of the 200,000 a large number of them are actually working on putting in that infrastructure, more of them are actually building the labour camps (which can be used as hostels during the WC for the staff that they will need to import) - Chicken Egg

What they DO mention will be the pitiful wages - around $150 a month. Unfortunately because Brits love to buy stuff for 1.99 in Primark or Discounted in Sports Direct, that is actually a BIG wage for an unskilled labourer from a Village in Nepal.

 

There are MANY issues in the Labour Laws in GCC countries. Here in the UAE it has improved dramatically over the 20 years I have been here and certainly in the past 5 years. The SAD part is that people are exploited by people. That I'm afraid is not the fault of a Nation State but of the people who are in business within that State. GREED causes that, you have still not found a penalty OR a solution to those problems in the UK where the same illness caused so much pain and misery

 

See through the bling, work to do what you can in your work environment and try and see humanity where it exists then you CAN make a difference. I know of many employers who do.

 

 

 

I also know of many who are NOT bidding for the WC work

Edited 25 September, 2013 by dubai_phil

[jjsaint]

Or, we could hold the World Cup in a country that doesn't need 'workarounds' for basic human rights issues.

 

A sh*thole with loadsamoney is still a sh*thole.

[Colinjb]

Or, we could hold the World Cup in a country that doesn't need 'workarounds' for basic human rights issues.

 

A sh*thole with loadsamoney is still a sh*thole.

 

Anywhere that needs to build an entire country's infrastructure to cope with a single month's event should never have been considered/eligible in the first place. Should San Marino strike massive natural resource reserves should it bid for a tournament?

 

They are planning stadia for cities which do not yet exist. E.g. Madinat ash Shamal, Population 5,000, a 45,000 capacity arena planned. Lusail, Nothing there aside from a motorcycle racing circuit yet an 86,000 capacity stadium planned.

 

This is an excuse to build up an entire nation in 9 years, not hold a competition.

Edited 26 September, 2013 by Colinjb

[dubai_phil]

Or, we could hold the World Cup in a country that doesn't need 'workarounds' for basic human rights issues.

 

A sh*thole with loadsamoney is still a sh*thole.

 

Or, by CAREFULLY reading the article and having a BASIC understanding of how Construction Projects are managed you can discover that...

 

The Company that won the Master Management Project, who selected the Sub-Contractors, who placed the Construction Contracts and who are responsible for overseeing Quality Control and Compliance is...

 

Yes you guessed it....

 

British.

 

And THEY pass the whole thing off with a typical Spin Statement.

 

Again, READ the article and the Qatari Government IS investigating.

 

Now, where is the thread decrying the UK's record on Human Trafficking for the Sex Industry, What happened to those Travellers exploiting Disabled workers?. How long did it take the UK Authorities to react to those?

 

Ramadan (where the issues with Drinking Water are most likely to have arisen) was just over 30 days ago.

 

The issues are not about work arounds they are about Evil Nasty people who prey on the unsuspecting.

 

Perhaps UK Journos would like to do a story on the real source of the problems in the ME Labour Markets - The Mafias who rip off workers across SE Asia truck them in to disreputable Labour Supply Companies (run by Asians).

 

India, Philippines, Malaysia all had crack downs, the Mafias moved to Nepal.

 

 

These stories should not "Shame" Qatar. They should shame the idiots who sat on the Gravy Train and voted for them in FIFA. The deaths were their fault. They just chose to ignore reality

[buctootim]

Or, by CAREFULLY reading the article and having a BASIC understanding of how Construction Projects are managed you can discover that...

 

The Company that won the Master Management Project, who selected the Sub-Contractors, who placed the Construction Contracts and who are responsible for overseeing Quality Control and Compliance is...

 

Yes you guessed it....

 

British.

 

And THEY pass the whole thing off with a typical Spin Statement.

 

Again, READ the article and the Qatari Government IS investigating.

 

Now, where is the thread decrying the UK's record on Human Trafficking for the Sex Industry, What happened to those Travellers exploiting Disabled workers?. How long did it take the UK Authorities to react to those?

 

Ramadan (where the issues with Drinking Water are most likely to have arisen) was just over 30 days ago.

 

The issues are not about work arounds they are about Evil Nasty people who prey on the unsuspecting.

 

Perhaps UK Journos would like to do a story on the real source of the problems in the ME Labour Markets - The Mafias who rip off workers across SE Asia truck them in to disreputable Labour Supply Companies (run by Asians).

 

India, Philippines, Malaysia all had crack downs, the Mafias moved to Nepal.

 

 

These stories should not "Shame" Qatar. They should shame the idiots who sat on the Gravy Train and voted for them in FIFA. The deaths were their fault. They just chose to ignore reality

 

Nice try Phil but everyone knows the oil and gas states are built on windfall income and cheap labour from poor countries working in crap conditions. The unelected extended ruling families cream off the wealth which rightly belongs to the citizens, Europeans and Americans are brought in to provide the skills and the two groups collude to ensure labour - your maid, waiter, cleaner etc are as cheap and as disposable as possible. Anyone who doesn't like it can **** off - except they cant because they are bonded to the employment agency back home. Its a pernicious system that the ex pats choose to turn a blind eye to because the ice is cold and the wages good.

[dubai_phil]

Nice try Phil but everyone knows the oil and gas states are built on windfall income and cheap labour from poor countries working in crap conditions. The unelected extended ruling families cream off the wealth which rightly belongs to the citizens, Europeans and Americans are brought in to provide the skills and the two groups collude to ensure labour - your maid, waiter, cleaner etc are as cheap and as disposable as possible. Anyone who doesn't like it can **** off - except they cant because they are bonded to the employment agency back home. Its a pernicious system that the ex pats choose to turn a blind eye to because the ice is cold and the wages good.

 

Not going to defend the system, in the same way I will never defend the UK system where the mates of Politicos & Bankers also get rich at the expense of the masses.

 

There is an argument that the Nation of Qatar is trading it's Natural Reserves today when it should retain them for future generations, although they would argue that trickle down economics work there as much as in the West and that at least Future Generations of Qataris will have a "State of the Art City" to live in

 

My gripe (as many on here often comment on other topics) is about lazy Journalism or Spin.

[buctootim]

Not going to defend the system, in the same way I will never defend the UK system where the mates of Politicos & Bankers also get rich at the expense of the masses.

 

There is an argument that the Nation of Qatar is trading it's Natural Reserves today when it should retain them for future generations, although they would argue that trickle down economics work there as much as in the West and that at least Future Generations of Qataris will have a "State of the Art City" to live in

 

My gripe (as many on here often comment on other topics) is about lazy Journalism or Spin.

 

That's a fair reply. I'm not criticising you for your life choices, I was offered a job in Qatar once for more than twice my current salary and when deciding what to do global labour markets and governmental systems weren't the highest priority - my family and quality of life were.

 

My issue was your attempt to deflect the blame away from the Qatari authorities. The simple fact that every time a government such as India, Philippines, Malaysia cracked down to protect their citizens Qatar simply sourced labour from a country with less protections says it all. The Qataris could stop exploitation of the labour force almost over night by stipulating that all foreign labour must have access to basic conditions and rights - and then monitoring compliance. They choose not to and its not overlooking, its desire to get cheap labour for as long as they can until such time as the international outcry forces them reluctantly to change.

[moonraker]

These stories in themselves are lots of spin, the real value is the exposure of practices, legal or not, that exploit migrant workers. DP has pointed out that there are laws in Qatar to deal with this situation the issue is enforcement and that to often custom and practice overrides legal obligations. The awarding of major international events to otherwise totally unsuitable or undeserving hosts provides a catalyst for greater scrutiny of the hosts and will I am sure lead to changes for the good in the long term. Finally as DP also notes Western big business has been complicit in these practises for years, perhaps as with sexual offences we apply our laws on H&S, employment etc to our citizens for breaking UK law in a foreign country.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

These stories in themselves are lots of spin, the real value is the exposure of practices, legal or not, that exploit migrant workers. DP has pointed out that there are laws in Qatar to deal with this situation the issue is enforcement and that to often custom and practice overrides legal obligations. The awarding of major international events to otherwise totally unsuitable or undeserving hosts provides a catalyst for greater scrutiny of the hosts and will I am sure lead to changes for the good in the long term. Finally as DP also notes Western big business has been complicit in these practises for years, perhaps as with sexual offences we apply our laws on H&S, employment etc to our citizens for breaking UK law in a foreign country.

 

FIFA could've insisted on better practice in the construction industry from the start. They didn't. They couldn't give a stuff.

[dubai_phil]

That's a fair reply. I'm not criticising you for your life choices, I was offered a job in Qatar once for more than twice my current salary and when deciding what to do global labour markets and governmental systems weren't the highest priority - my family and quality of life were.

 

My issue was your attempt to deflect the blame away from the Qatari authorities. The simple fact that every time a government such as India, Philippines, Malaysia cracked down to protect their citizens Qatar simply sourced labour from a country with less protections says it all. The Qataris could stop exploitation of the labour force almost over night by stipulating that all foreign labour must have access to basic conditions and rights - and then monitoring compliance. They choose not to and its not overlooking, its desire to get cheap labour for as long as they can until such time as the international outcry forces them reluctantly to change.

 

Again good point. FWIW a number of friends actually enjoy living in Qatar, as with Muscat in Oman it still retains the sense of a proper community unlike the soul-lessness & bling merchants infesting much of this place.

 

I WILL pull you up on the point

Qatar simply sourced labour from a country with less protections says it all

QATAR hasn't done that per se, in fact EVERY GCC Nation has done this BUT it is also right to say it is INDUSTRY that is importing them, NOT the Government.

 

As an example of how things are improving, over here they passed a law a few years ago restricting the number of hours that Labourers could work outdoors on Construction Projects in the height of summer. (They HAVE to have an enforced break when around midday when it is at it's hottest)

 

In true "UK EU Regulations Inspector style" everyone here was quite surprised to see that Dubai & Abu Dhabi recruited a sensible number of Arab Local Inspectors and SHOCK HORROR! - Enforced the law. Couple of big companies got hammered here this summer.

 

The templates and laws are in place, unfortunately Easy Money attracts Evil people in every Nation. Dubai learnt it's lessons with that bad PR. Qatar is going to learn (as in fact Brazil has been) that once you get a WC the spotlight falls in all kinds of areas. Stories will keep coming.

 

Next up will be the Daily Fail telling every one of it's readers that they are an idiot for not buying 25 Buy to Let Properties in Qatar (obviously after the Journo's have been on an Expenses Paid Trip to see how wonderful the property Market is) that never happened before no siree....

[dubai_phil]

FIFA could've insisted on better practice in the construction industry from the start. They didn't. They couldn't give a stuff.

 

Won't end there though.

WC, Major Golf Events, Olympics F1 Races all happen thanks to VOLUNTEERS.

People will not get time off and anyway the types who would Volunteer - Ex Pats won't bother unless they are getting free tickets. (No sense of Community unlike London 2012)

The Country is going to have to import huge numbers of Temporary Staff - all will need Visas and Accomodation. All the projects will have been awarded to The Lowest Bidder (Never going to change that mentality) and the staff won't get paid and probably won't get flown home again afterwards

[buctootim]

t is also right to say it is INDUSTRY that is importing them, NOT the Government.

 

 

...but the government establish the rules and laws under which the companies work and issue the visas. As with every other country you allow dangerous workplaces and poor employment conditions or you don't. It is for the country to establish standards, companies wont because they know otherwise someone will undercut them.

 

It is because Qatar is so wealthy with such a small population that makes their treatment of migrant workers so distasteful. A country of 2million people spending £138bn on a world cup - £69,000 for everone who lives there but they cant issue free water or ensure the paltry wages actually get paid?

Edited 26 September, 2013 by buctootim

[Wrensup]

Anywhere that needs to build an entire country's infrastructure to cope with a single month's event should never have been considered/eligible in the first place. Should San Marino strike massive natural resource reserves should it bid for a tournament?

 

They are planning stadia for cities which do not yet exist. E.g. Madinat ash Shamal, Population 5,000, a 45,000 capacity arena planned. Lusail, Nothing there aside from a motorcycle racing circuit yet an 86,000 capacity stadium planned.

 

This is an excuse to build up an entire nation in 9 years, not hold a competition.

 

It's all part of there secret plan of buying major Europeon teams, and building big stadiums so they can create a super football mega league with the stadiums all ready after the word cup!

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

...but the government establish the rules and laws under which the companies work and issue the visas. As with every other country you allow dangerous workplaces and poor employment conditions or you don't. It is for the country to establish standards, companies wont because they know otherwise someone will undercut them.

 

It is because Qatar is so wealthy with such a small population that makes their treatment of migrant workers so distasteful. A country of 2million people spending £138bn on a world cup - £69,000 for everone who lives there but they cant issue free water or ensure the paltry wages actually get paid?

 

And isn't the Qatari Government effectively the ruling family who control all of the main industrial sectors as well?

 

The 2m population you quote is mostly foreigners, population of citizens is much lower at around 250,000. Basically a country with a similar popluation to Swindon is hosting the World Cup.

[dubai_phil]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24282713

 

Qatar 2022 World Cup organisers say they are "appalled" by the findings of an investigation into the treatment of migrant workers in the country.

 

Something is clearly starting to be done, to be fair the comment that

He added that work on World Cup projects had yet to get under way,

is true and fair. The issue will be with related peripheral projects such as Property Development, Hotels & Malls etc.

 

They do have laws, they now appear to have been mobilised into action. Like everything in every Nation somebody does the leg work, finds an issue, raises it.

 

Again, Tim -

but they cant issue free water or ensure the paltry wages actually get paid?

 

1) It is a legal obligation to provide Water for workers. It is a legal obligation to pay the workers. Managers as well as companies will face Fines and probable Jail Sentences for NOT paying.

Unfortunately, as in the UK IF a company has no money or goes pop then employees don't get paid. (And as I pointed out, there ARE systems Gratuity Deposits that ensure they get SOMETHING in this event)

2) I am willing to bet a Tesco's Keg of OSH that the complaints about Water occurred during Ramadan. Cannot have it both ways, either understand the issue of Ramadan - it is ILLEGAL to drink/eat/smoke in public period. The GOVERNMENT will not and cannot provide drink stations. culturally it would be like UK Gov ENFORCING a Burka on every woman in UK - Culturally it just cannot happen. The employer has to find a work around - normally it is a $10 piece of plastic sheeting to screen the workers. MANY of the labourers will be illiterate or of "low IQ & EQ" and may not even know it is there DESPITE being told.

3) There will be heavy fines and inspections will increase visibly

4) The Media will find a zillion other Offences against Humanity

 

The one issue will always be - Cash Flow and timing of payments. On that issue any inexperienced Western Company will get burned and there are planes full of idiots landing here everyday who think they know better.

[dubai_phil]

This will cause a

 

No matter how many times I TRY and show up Cultural Differences, someone else always comes along and proves.....

Well, whatever

 

I'll leave you lot to do the facepalms if that's OK.....

 

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2013/09/28/Driving-affects-ovary-and-pelvis-Saudi-sheikh-warns-women.html

 

Saudi women seeking to challenge a de facto ban on driving should realize that this could affect their ovaries and pelvises, Sheikh Salah al-Luhaydan, also a psychologist, told Saudi news website sabq.org.

Driving “could have a reverse physiological impact. Physiological science and functional medicine studied this side [and found] that it automatically affects ovaries and rolls up the pelvis. This is why we find for women who continuously drive cars their children are born with clinical disorders of varying degrees,” Sheikh al-Luhaydan said.

Saudi female activists have launched an online campaign urging women to drive on Oct. 26.

More than 11,000 women have signed the oct26driving.com declaration that says: “Since there are no clear justifications for the state to ban adult, capable women from driving. We call for enabling women to have driving tests and for issuing licenses for those who pass.”

Sheikh al-Luhaydan urged these women to consider “the mind before the heart and emotion and look at this issue with a realistic eye.”

“The result of this is bad and they should wait and consider the negativities,” he said.

[h=4]Twitter reaction[/h]

Al-Luhaydan's statement drew immediate reaction on social media, with many Saudis ridiculing his “great scientific discoveries.” A Twitter hashtag “Women_driving_affects_ovaries_and_pelvises” was created and is going viral among Arab users.

Female twitter user @Shams_AlShmous sarcastically applauded the sheikh’s “exclusive scientific achievement.”

A female user with the name of Ms Jackson @B_B1ack tells everyone: “What’s your understanding of physiology, leave it to our Sheikh al-Luhaydan.

Another female @Mshaal80 asked whether al-Haydan “studied Shariah, medicine or foolishness.”

[h=4]Not part of Sharia[/h] The head of kingdom’s religious police said last week that the “Islamic sharia does not have a text forbidding women driving.”

Sheikh Abdulatif al-Sheikh stressed that since he was appointed as head of the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice religious police have not pursued or stopped a woman driving.

 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Nice try Phil but everyone knows the oil and gas states are built on windfall income and cheap labour from poor countries working in crap conditions. The unelected extended ruling families cream off the wealth which rightly belongs to the citizens, Europeans and Americans are brought in to provide the skills and the two groups collude to ensure labour - your maid, waiter, cleaner etc are as cheap and as disposable as possible. Anyone who doesn't like it can **** off - except they cant because they are bonded to the employment agency back home. Its a pernicious system that the ex pats choose to turn a blind eye to because the ice is cold and the wages good.

 

Bloody well put!

[dubai_phil]

Two big updates today.

 

Firstly the "Slaves" are building a giant replica of female genitalia

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-accidental-vagina-design-for-qatars-first-2022-world-cup-stadium-released-8947447.html

 

Oh THAT is gonna hurt them.

 

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/11/17/amnesty-internationalqatarfailingtoenforceitsownlawslaborlaws.html

 

Amnesty International now pointing out the failures in their systems.

 

Nice one Sepp

[Barry Sanchez]

Worst choice for a venue, would rather have China or Columbia as a host World Cup Country, backward place corrupted by the West and their own ignorance.

[hutch]

I'll be passing through Doha on Thursday. I suppose it's too early to play "spot the fanny"?

[Special K]

It looks a little bit like a flange, but i do know that if you look at the rear of the Lion and Lamb sculpture in Farnham, it looks a lot like a knob, replete with pubes and bell end.