Attendance down on this time last year

[Turkish]

Wigan: 29,604

Man U: 31,609

Villa: 30,713

 

This season:

 

Sunderland: 29, 596

West Ham: 28,794

Palace: Look like being around the 30-31k mark.

 

Yes we got more for Man United than West Ham but the other two are worrying. Sunderland brought more fans than Wigan did so there were around 1,000 less Saints fans in the ground. Despite being 7th Crystal Palace is looking far from a sell out.

 

Holiday time is over. Are there still lots of surprise birthday parties for great aunties in September? Depsite spending another £35m and having a team packed full of internationals apathy seems to be reigning supreme on the south coast.

[landford.saint]

Either apathy, or more likely economics. With prices of everything going up, including tickets, people have to be increasingly selective on what they spend their cash on.

[Son of Bob]

I don't think it's apathy. I'd say we've just found our general attendance level now. I suspect if we had a 28,000 seater we'd sell out every week but if we had a 45,000 seater we'd still only sell around 30,000. Unless we really push on and break into the top 5/6 and start getting a new influx of 'glory seekers' not much will change.

 

This is why a multi-million pound stadium extension would be a complete waste of time as things stand.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Wigan: 29,604

Man U: 31,609

Villa: 30,713

 

This season:

 

Sunderland: 29, 596

West Ham: 28,794

Palace: Look like being around the 30-31k mark.

 

Yes we got more for Man United than West Ham but the other two are worrying. Sunderland brought more fans than Wigan did so there were around 1,000 less Saints fans in the ground. Despite being 7th Crystal Palace is looking far from a sell out.

 

Holiday time is over. Are there still lots of surprise birthday parties for great aunties in September? Depsite spending another £35m and having a team packed full of internationals apathy seems to be reigning supreme on the south coast.

 

 

I would say it's a coincidence at the moment, and the fact that neither West Ham or Sunderland are a draw. I know Wigan aren't really, but I think the attendance was artificially high after how we played at City on the opening day.

[Bridge]

It’s the cost for me... was a season ticket holder with my son for past few years. Just cannot do it at the moment...something had to give way…I have to look at it as a special treat if we decide to go now...

[Whitey Grandad]

Looks broadly similar to me. Nobody's mentioned West Ham being on the tele?

[Turkish]

I would say it's a coincidence at the moment, and the fact that neither West Ham or Sunderland are a draw. I know Wigan aren't really, but I think the attendance was artificially high after how we played at City on the opening day.

 

We sold out our game against West Ham in the championship yet were 3.5k short this season. We were still in recession in 2011 and we were playing at a lower level without £70m worth of talent added since then, so its not the standard of football either.

[Son of Bob]

It’s the cost for me... was a season ticket holder with my son for past few years. Just cannot do it at the moment...something had to give way…I have to look at it as a special treat if we decide to go now...

 

Likewise Bridge. My attendance has steadily dropped over the last 2 years but that's nothing to do with apathy. I support and love the saints as much as ever. I just cannot justify the growing expense of a full match day on a regular basis. It's definitely become a treat for me to go these days.

[Fan The Flames]

I'm waiting for the ground extension, the new wrap around facade and events box that we have been promised before I come again. I might come for a top 4 prem team in the League Cup semi-final.

[100%Red&White]

We sold out our game against West Ham in the championship yet were 3.5k short this season. We were still in recession in 2011 and we were playing at a lower level without £70m worth of talent added since then, so its not the standard of football either.

 

And as a team we've improved significantly. The only conclusion to come to really is simply cost. Clubs have pushed it, and pushed it, fleecing the customer's loyalty, maybe fans have finally had enough.

 

Football really is taking the p*ss.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

We sold out our game against West Ham in the championship yet were 3.5k short this season. We were still in recession in 2011 and we were playing at a lower level without £70m worth of talent added since then, so its not the standard of football either.

 

Different situation. 2 teams fighting it out at the top of the table is different to 2 midtable Premiership sides. If we were top of the league we'd have a higher attendance for all games I'd wager.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

And as a team we've improved significantly. The only conclusion to come to really is simply cost. Clubs have pushed it, and pushed it, fleecing the customer's loyalty, maybe fans have finally had enough.

 

Football really is taking the p*ss.

 

I don't agree, especially considering the rise of costs from last season to this season was pretty minimal.

[100%Red&White]

I'm waiting for the ground extension, the new wrap around facade and events box that we have been promised before I come again. I might come for a top 4 prem team in the League Cup semi-final.

 

I'm a season ticket holder and will continue to go but I can understand fans now picking and choosing games at these prices. That they'll probably choose the more attractive fixtures aint really much of a surprise, is it?

[100%Red&White]

I don't agree, especially considering the rise of costs from last season to this season was pretty minimal.

 

It will always only go up 'a bit' year-on-year but at some point there'll be a 'limit'. That may very well have been reached now for some and over a season they'll just take in less games.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It will always only go up 'a bit' year-on-year but at some point there'll be a 'limit'. That may very well have been reached now for some and over a season they'll just take in less games.

 

It's pretty simple Supply and Demand with a sprinkling of profit maximisation in all honesty. I don't believe from the above that you can conclude saturation point has been reached, far from it, as you can reach reasonable conclusions as to why some were higher and lower for all matches above.

[stevegrant]

We're around 700 short on season ticket numbers this season, not a massive amount in the grand scheme of things, but presumably those 700 aren't going to be buying for every single game so they've got to be replaced somewhere along the line.

 

The games this season seem to have had a spike of sales in the week leading up to the game - I guess that given the opposition in the first few home games, people know that they're almost certainly going to be able to make a fairly late decision and buy a ticket a few days in advance, whereas the home games in the latter part of last season were selling out very quickly (Liverpool sold out in about 6 hours IIRC). Couple that with the usual early season stuff like holidays, weddings, lower away attendances (West Ham were almost 1000 down on last season), higher ticket prices, etc, and you've got a whole host of reasons.

 

One thing that struck me in the week leading up to the West Ham game was the priority (or lack of) the club seemed to place on selling tickets for the game, particularly via social media. On Twitter, they posted something along the lines of "Don't forget the game is on Sky, get your subscription here" when the game wasn't anywhere near selling out, and then seemingly as an afterthought posted "Oh, by the way, tickets still available for the game here". While I fully accept that the broadcasting revenue dwarves gate receipts these days (around 4:1), it amazes me that there hasn't been more of a "hard sell" for the three home games so far, nor the two forthcoming games.

[eelpie]

Simple. Prices go up. Attendances go down.

 

Management need to take this on board when calculating next seasons prices.

[The9]

We sold out our game against West Ham in the championship yet were 3.5k short this season. We were still in recession in 2011 and we were playing at a lower level without £70m worth of talent added since then, so its not the standard of football either.

 

Pretty sure my ST averaged about £26 a match in the Championship that season, averages £33.50 a match this season, so stick a few quid on those prices for match by match, plus Cortese's ticket taxes, and you can see why £40 a match isn't selling out stadiums.

 

In addition, there's now a plethora of pubs showing live matches at 3pm (or showing Saints matches live whenever) which will impact on attendances, people don't need to be in the ground OR have a Sky subscription to see every league match live without being in attendance any more, you can follow from "afar" from the pub down the road from the ground and still have the near-full match day socialising and communal match-watching.

[The Kraken]

I think it shows the club have got pricing pretty much spot on. The stadium 90% - 95% full in the quiestest time of the season and maximising the premium prices we charge. History tells us that we'll start getting sellouts later in the season, especially so for the uber-expensive category A games. Much better to price 'em high and pack 'em in than spends tens of millions on a capacity increase and keep prices low to fill it.

 

Well done Nicola Cortese

[Bearsy]

Are there still lots of surprise birthday parties for great aunties in September?

 

have you took into account all the jews & homosex who don't feel safe attending the ground?

[The9]

I think it shows the club have got pricing pretty much spot on. The stadium 90% - 95% full in the quiestest time of the season and maximising the premium prices we charge. History tells us that we'll start getting sellouts later in the season, especially so for the uber-expensive category A games. Much better to price 'em high and pack 'em in than spends tens of millions on a capacity increase and keep prices low to fill it.

Well done Nicola Cortese

 

Assuming you're not planning on selling tons of merchandise to unique visitors of course. Plastics are more likely to buy stuff on any one particular visit, partially due to the novelty, and a bit, I guess, as they've got more disposable income from not spending £500+ on attending other matches.

Edited 25 September, 2013 by The9

[Leicestersaint]

It's partly price and partly results - I spoke to two people who went to the West ham match and hadn't been for years beforehand - they were pretty negative about Saints' inability to score against WHU and said they wouldn't be back any time soon. I think we will see sell outs or near sell outs if we are doing well. A win against palace would be a good start.

[holepuncture]

Wigan: 29,604

Man U: 31,609

Villa: 30,713

 

This season:

 

Sunderland: 29, 596

West Ham: 28,794

Palace: Look like being around the 30-31k mark.

 

Yes we got more for Man United than West Ham but the other two are worrying. Sunderland brought more fans than Wigan did so there were around 1,000 less Saints fans in the ground. Despite being 7th Crystal Palace is looking far from a sell out.

 

Holiday time is over. Are there still lots of surprise birthday parties for great aunties in September? Depsite spending another £35m and having a team packed full of internationals apathy seems to be reigning supreme on the south coast.

 

Lots of factors though fatboy, it was our first season back in the prem etc.

 

I think it’s a situation similar to brands like M&S where they are dying with their customers.

 

I think the customer base at SMS is aging with no real replacement customer base financially able to come through. Look around the Itchen etc and you can see where the money is coming from, and those faces are only getting older.

 

I don’t see the next generation of kids/teens coming through in sufficient numbers at all, what do you think?

 

 

you can see why £40 a match isn't selling out stadiums.

 

In addition, there's now a plethora of pubs showing live matches at 3pm (or showing Saints matches live whenever) which will impact on attendances, people don't need to be in the ground OR have a Sky subscription to see every league match live without being in attendance any more, you can follow from "afar" from the pub down the road from the ground and still have the near-full match day socialising and communal match-watching.

 

Combine this with Steve Grants post below and I think it helps paint a picture of where it is all going.

 

While I fully accept that the broadcasting revenue dwarves gate receipts these days (around 4:1),

 

and food, beer etc!

 

In fact, I imagine nowadays us peasant fans are simply an inconvenience to Mr Cortese, with the costs involved in herding and policing us all around SMS..

[Bucks Saint]

have you took into account all the jews & homosex who don't feel safe attending the ground?

 

If only we had worn the rainbow stuff last time. No wonder we did not sell out

[Saint Charlie]

Personally, as a Season Ticket holder I would be happy fo the club to reduce prices in the couple of days leading up to the game in order to sell-out. It wouldnt really bother me as I have a guarenteed seat and never have to scramble around to get a ticket.

 

Of course, there would be many that wouldnt want someone else to get a last minute cheap rate that would advantage them over a ST holder and would complain etc which is why the pricing is so rigid.

 

Shame really as I would much rather the whole ground was full - and Im sure it will be for many games this season.

[Black Sea Saint]

Monaco get 8,500, let's consider ourselves lucky.

[Wiggles31]

With prices going up and being able to stream every game people are not going as much. Forty odd quid is a lot for a ticket.

 

We've sold out every away game.

[Sour Mash]

We've sold out every away game.

We didn't sell out at Barnsley and didn't even take the full allocations at Norwich or Liverpool.

[bender]

We didn't sell out at Barnsley and didn't even take the full allocations at Norwich or Liverpool.

 

Well thats a sore point though isnt it. I tried like hell to get a ticket for Liverpool but the club stupidly returned some early on. They were sold out way before they went on sale to non ST holders. There are load of people who cant get to every home game so dont buy a ST, but they do like the idea of going to Anfield or whatever.

[Wiggles31]

We didn't sell out at Barnsley and didn't even take the full allocations at Norwich or Liverpool.

 

Didn't realise that we did not take the full allocation. Why, we would have sold out both those. I tried desperately to get tickets for both ffs.

[JRM]

Pretty sure my ST averaged about £26 a match in the Championship that season, averages £33.50 a match this season, so stick a few quid on those prices for match by match, plus Cortese's ticket taxes, and you can see why £40 a match isn't selling out stadiums.

 

In addition, there's now a plethora of pubs showing live matches at 3pm (or showing Saints matches live whenever) which will impact on attendances, people don't need to be in the ground OR have a Sky subscription to see every league match live without being in attendance any more, you can follow from "afar" from the pub down the road from the ground and still have the near-full match day socialising and communal match-watching.

 

i watched the game in Kelly's on saturday, excellent screens, picture and sounds, decent atmosphere and drinks prices, and can see why people would do that and save £38 on a home match ticket, only going every so often, also look at the "watch every game live" thread where people watch at home.

 

its a shame as i like a full ground for atmosphere, but crowds need to fall to bring prices into a more realistic level.

[St_Tel49]

It's partly price and partly results - I spoke to two people who went to the West ham match and hadn't been for years beforehand - they were pretty negative about Saints' inability to score against WHU and said they wouldn't be back any time soon. I think we will see sell outs or near sell outs if we are doing well. A win against palace would be a good start.

Says it all really. They weren't exactly busting a gut to go before - were they?

[ollysaints1]

How many have sold for Palace?

[JRM]

How many have sold for Palace?

 

had a look and it is set to be a big crowd, Palace sold out their full allocation quickly so for the first time this year we'll have a full away end, i think this will be about 31,000 , hopefully a bit more, it helps being a saturday 3pm kick off, we are on a run, home to a London club bring 3200 and it is a C category game so ticket prices more affordable

[Saintandy666]

Meh, not enough games gone yet to declare any statistically sound difference. Let's wait and see how it progresses as the season goes on.

[stevegrant]

How many have sold for Palace?

As of this morning, we'd sold just over 5,000 matchday tickets. Added to the 21,631 season tickets and 3,100 away fans, that's just shy of 30,000. Add on corporates, etc, and it'll comfortably be over 30k.

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

We didn't sell out at Barnsley and didn't even take the full allocations at Norwich or Liverpool.

 

doesnt help when the club is so secretive about allocations and how many tickets sold. dont see what there issue is with that.

[spyinthesky]

The situation at St Marys is being reflected in grounds elsewhere.

 

You could more or less guarantee a sell out at every Premiership ground a few years ago and attendances in the Championship were also very strong

 

I guess regular full houses are only guaranteed at Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs, West Ham, Liverpool, Chelsea and Norwich

 

Even Newcastle are failing to sell out every week (understandably!!)

 

As a season ticket holder, I too wouldn't worry if there were deals for late comers provided march day increases aren't added on,

 

£100 or so for a Dad to take two teenage sons to a game would be too much for me.

 

The availability of free TV streams in Pubs will only affect attendances more

 

Perhaps if the game survives in its current format, perhaps we will all be watching our favourite team on the screen screened live from sanitised stadia with massive advert back drops and filtered in crowd noises.

 

Still, on a positive note look how far the game has come since the 80's when hooliganism was rife, grounds were outdated and crowds were pathetic compared to now

[Gemmel]

Intresting and a little dispointing - I have never advocated that we should increse the stadium, but thought we would be close to (If not sold out) sell outs in most games.

 

We are who we are - Maybe those figures shown are a truer reflection of the size of the club, than some of us would like to admit.

 

One thing i would add is (And i cant remember what games it was) the official site would have games down as sell outs, a week before a game and then when you actually get there, there are pockets of empty seats all over the place - I've never understood this.

[stevegrant]

Intresting and a little dispointing - I have never advocated that we should increse the stadium, but thought we would be close to (If not sold out) sell outs in most games.

 

We are who we are - Maybe those figures shown are a truer reflection of the size of the club, than some of us would like to admit.

 

One thing i would add is (And i cant remember what games it was) the official site would have games down as sell outs, a week before a game and then when you actually get there, there are pockets of empty seats all over the place - I've never understood this.

The Man United game last season was the one that emphasised that the most. It was sold out two weeks in advance, and yet throughout the game there was a massive block of at least 100 seats empty at the front of blocks 3 and 4. I emailed the club asking about it, and their response was that they were tickets that were sold (or season ticket holders) but the ticketholders simply didn't turn up for the game.

 

"********" was my initial reaction.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Time for politics to raise its ugly head I'm afraid.

 

I suspect it may want to, but Football can no longer exist in a vacuum separated from the rest of the economy. The leader of the opposition made a big play yesterday about how living standards in the UK are now falling significantly as years of wage stagnation takes effect - and he's right.

 

It's no bloody good clubs putting up their prices every season and expecting fans to find the money from this years pay rise as they used to, the fact is many of us just don't get a annual pay rise anymore. Clubs can either choose to adapt to this grim new reality or carry on as per normal every summer - and watch attendances shrink even further.

[whelk]

Saturation of games - can pretty much watch good quality premier league games all the time now. Also satellite boxes, dns altering to allow Al Jazeera sports etc, number of pubs showing games. People are getting used to this and a cheaper option.

 

I like it when we don't sell out as might make club less complacent hiking prices of games and shirts.

[Saint Garrett]

Didn't realise that we did not take the full allocation. Why, we would have sold out both those. I tried desperately to get tickets for both ffs.

 

Yep ridiculous. Norwich didn't even reach STH with 0 away games IIRC, yet we only took 2 blocks out of 3. Didn't hear about Liverpool but sounds like the same thing happened again. Crazy really when we sold out the majority of away games last season.

[AK]

I think its purely down to home performances.As i said on another thread no home league win for a few days short of 6 months along with the 3 to of 10 home league wins for MP.

 

No coincidence that after our 3 big home wins last year we then sold out the remaining games.

[View From The Top]

I'm willing to wager that plenty of missing folk are families. Prices for anyone over 11 are obscene.

 

We certainly won't be bothering with home games again.

[Sour Mash]

Yep ridiculous. Norwich didn't even reach STH with 0 away games IIRC, yet we only took 2 blocks out of 3. Didn't hear about Liverpool but sounds like the same thing happened again. Crazy really when we sold out the majority of away games last season.

I agree it's a poor stance from the club, but in their defence, we didn't sell out at Norwich last season, or any away game north of Brum apart from Liverpool (and again that wasn't the full allocation).

[Turkish]

The Man United game last season was the one that emphasised that the most. It was sold out two weeks in advance, and yet throughout the game there was a massive block of at least 100 seats empty at the front of blocks 3 and 4. I emailed the club asking about it, and their response was that they were tickets that were sold (or season ticket holders) but the ticketholders simply didn't turn up for the game.

 

"********" was my initial reaction.

 

What an amazing coincidence that all the people that didn't turn up all sat In the same area!

[Turkish]

I think it shows the club have got pricing pretty much spot on. The stadium 90% - 95% full in the quiestest time of the season and maximising the premium prices we charge. History tells us that we'll start getting sellouts later in the season, especially so for the uber-expensive category A games. Much better to price 'em high and pack 'em in than spends tens of millions on a capacity increase and keep prices low to fill it.

 

Well done Nicola Cortese

 

Yep spot on. I've said this before myself. If the club are charging as much as possible and betting about 90-95% capacity then they've priced it right from their point of view. Why do they care if people can't afford to go every week when 90% of people in the ground can or will make themselves able.

[JRM]

Yep spot on. I've said this before myself. If the club are charging as much as possible and betting about 90-95% capacity then they've priced it right from their point of view. Why do they care if people can't afford to go every week when 90% of people in the ground can or will make themselves able.

 

the only reason i can think of is - who knows whats around the corner? we could find ourselves back in league one with half filled ground begging fans to come back, but the ones who had been going for years before being priced out would have moved on.

 

i don't think we should take loyalty for granted

[The Kraken]

the only reason i can think of is - who knows whats around the corner? we could find ourselves back in league one with half filled ground begging fans to come back, but the ones who had been going for years before being priced out would have moved on.

 

i don't think we should take loyalty for granted

Fair enough, but we do have to maximise revenues. So without raising prices, what other options are there? Lower prices will likely mean a full stadium for every game but lower revenues (being as we're already 90% - 95% full already with sky high prices). And with sky high prices we'll in all likelihood sell out around half of our home games anyway.