Defences win Championships...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Anyone else looking at the way we're playing and believe that we have started the season by building from the back? Our defence was so poor last season that something had be done.

 

What I think we'll see happen is after Poch is happy that the defence is doing it's job (still haven't played any 'top' sides) we'll see the fullbacks given full reign to roam and we'll see more flexibility up top. One of the main reasons we continue to play JRod is due to his ability to track back. I believe once we are happy that the defence is doing it's job, then we'll see a fit Gaston come back in and a fully roaming front 4.

 

COYS!

[Whitey Grandad]

I believe this too. It's an unaccustomed situation for many Saints fans.

[Olallana]

Agree with that. And to be fair MP said already in Austria during preseason that Gaston and Maya would probable need a month into the season before they would contribute and at the moment we have a good CB pairing so I think Maya will have to wait but I hope Gaston will be involved a bit more from now on. Really interested seeing him link up with Osvaldo...

[B Rabbit]

A common saying in American sport has always been.... offense wins games, defence wins championships... more often than not the best defensive unit has the best season.

 

We look tough to beat..be nice to be able to push towards a european place through the league.

[Wes Tender]

Let's hope that the front four manage to find their scoring boots, as it seems that this season they have left them in the changing rooms.

 

You only have to go back just over a decade when we last had a rock solid back four. Niemi, Claus, Killer, Dodd and Bridge were arguably as good as the current four. I don't think that we have had as good a back four as we have now since then though.

[stevegrant]

To be fair, the defence had already improved immeasurably over the second half of last season. First 10 games, 28 goals conceded, 2.8 goals per game; remaining 28 games, 32 goals conceded, 1.1 goals per game.

 

The signing of Lovren has (considerably) strengthened what was already a pretty tight back 5.

[Brussels Saint]

I think both Lovren and Wanyama have contributed hugely to this improvement. My guess is that MP knew exactly what he was getting when he bought Wanyama. A defensive physical presence in front of the back four, who is perhaps technically more limited than our other players. Occasionally mis-controlling or playing a poor pass (potentially causing us trouble agreed), is a price worth paying for ensuring we are never bullied in midfield, and have a brick wall in front of the defence.

It's a powerful base to work from and allows us now to just work on faster transitions, and our attacking 4 to find the right combinations of personnel and style.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

To be fair, the defence had already improved immeasurably over the second half of last season. First 10 games, 28 goals conceded, 2.8 goals per game; remaining 28 games, 32 goals conceded, 1.1 goals per game.

 

The signing of Lovren has (considerably) strengthened what was already a pretty tight back 5.

 

Agreed, it did tighten, but still not enough imo. 1.1 goals a game is still 42 per season. If that can be cut to low 20's, then you're picking up so many more points over a season. I suppose it's similar to practising your putting ahead of driving. If you can't putt, you won't win...

[stevegrant]

Agreed, it did tighten, but still not enough imo. 1.1 goals a game is still 42 per season. If that can be cut to low 20's, then you're picking up so many more points over a season.

Naturally, but let's be realistic, going a season conceding less than 30 goals is highly unlikely to happen, particularly for a club of our size.

 

To put that into context, here are the champions' defensive records and the records of the best defence in each of the last 10 seasons:

 

2012/13 CH: Man United (43), DEF: Man City (34)

2011/12 CH: Man City (29), DEF: Man City (29)

2010/11 CH: Man United (37), DEF: Chelsea, Man City (33)

2009/10 CH: Chelsea (32), DEF: Man United (28)

2008/09 CH: Man United (24), DEF: Man United, Chelsea (24)

2007/08 CH: Man United (22), DEF: Man United (22)

2006/07 CH: Man United (27), DEF: Chelsea (24)

2005/06 CH: Chelsea (22), DEF: Chelsea (22)

2004/05 CH: Chelsea (15), DEF: Chelsea (15)

2003/04 CH: Arsenal (26), DEF: Arsenal (26)

 

As that suggests, there's a bit of a trend developing that defences, even at the top of the league, are getting worse (or, conversely, attacks are getting better, depending on which way you want to look at it). It would take something very special indeed to concede as few as 30 in a season.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Naturally, but let's be realistic, going a season conceding less than 30 goals is highly unlikely to happen, particularly for a club of our size.

 

To put that into context, here are the champions' defensive records and the records of the best defence in each of the last 10 seasons:

 

2012/13 CH: Man United (43), DEF: Man City (34)

2011/12 CH: Man City (29), DEF: Man City (29)

2010/11 CH: Man United (37), DEF: Chelsea, Man City (33)

2009/10 CH: Chelsea (32), DEF: Man United (28)

2008/09 CH: Man United (24), DEF: Man United, Chelsea (24)

2007/08 CH: Man United (22), DEF: Man United (22)

2006/07 CH: Man United (27), DEF: Chelsea (24)

2005/06 CH: Chelsea (22), DEF: Chelsea (22)

2004/05 CH: Chelsea (15), DEF: Chelsea (15)

2003/04 CH: Arsenal (26), DEF: Arsenal (26)

 

As that suggests, there's a bit of a trend developing that defences, even at the top of the league, are getting worse (or, conversely, attacks are getting better, depending on which way you want to look at it). It would take something very special indeed to concede as few as 30 in a season.

 

Defences have got worse, but that's only because teams play more expansively and teams have stopped investing in decent CB's. Well, let's put it another way. Name an outstanding CB that's plying his trade in the Premiership that's not Vincent Kompany!

[Minty]

Think back to when we were in the Premiership before our relegation and the 'quality' of our attack and the other lower sides... I believe the biggest shift is that the money in the Premiership/EPL has enabled even the weaker teams in the league to buy better attacking talent and so they have been better prepared to score against even the top teams... it might not have changed the overall results trend, but has resulted in higher numbers of goals conceded overall.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Defences have got worse, but that's only because teams play more expansively and teams have stopped investing in decent CB's. Well, let's put it another way. Name an outstanding CB that's plying his trade in the Premiership that's not Vincent Kompany!

 

Generally I would agree, but there seems to have been a shift back to prioritising defence this season so far.

 

I could be wrong, and I havn't got figures to hand so it's more a "how it feels" comment, but there seem to be a lot less goals being scored at the moment. Games seem more dull.

 

We have definitely shored up at the back, which is what most of us (myself very much included) were crying out for for the large part of last season. Clearly it means we are going to be much harder to beat, and also means we are going to stay in more games for longer. Did someone post an article that we currently have one of the best defences in the europe at the moment on another thread?

 

The thing I find most strange about this general shift in the league is that it has coincided with Jose's return. The man who, in my opinion, was largely responsible for the shift to the more defensive tactics that followed for a few years after his arrival, and the widespread adoption of 4-3-3/4-5-1.

[Minty]

Did someone post an article that we currently have one of the best defences in the europe at the moment on another thread?

 

There was a Sky article about it somewhere, but here are the up-to-date Average Goals Conceded Per Game stats:

 

Spurs 0.2

Roma 0.25

Bayern 0.33

SAINTS 0.4

Chelsea 0.4

Monaco 0.5

Malaga 0.66

 

( http://stats.football365.com/ )

[stevegrant]

Generally I would agree, but there seems to have been a shift back to prioritising defence this season so far.

 

I could be wrong, and I havn't got figures to hand so it's more a "how it feels" comment, but there seem to be a lot less goals being scored at the moment. Games seem more dull.

This is definitely true, and you may have a point regarding the Mourinho return factor, but I guess with so many managerial changes this summer, particularly with each of last season's top 3 having new managers, it's only natural that they would be more cautious initially.

 

I saw a stat a week or two ago which showed that the PL was miles behind the other top leagues in Europe in terms of goals per game. While the weekend just gone had plenty of goals, I suspect it's still lagging some way behind.

 

Chelsea, especially, haven't been anywhere near as entertaining this season as they were in previous years - they've gone back to Mourinho's old "get in front and then stifle the game completely" mantra. To a large extent that's worked for them, but by contrast, the two games they've fallen behind in this season (Basel in the CL and Everton last week), they've been unable to recover.

 

Our games have certainly been duller, but at the same time it's hard to argue with the return of 8 points from our first 5 games and only 2 goals conceded.