Milliband and the IEA

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Sounds like we should raise the upper tax band to 80+ % in that case. Squeeze as much as we can out of them so they end up with as much money as an ordinary person...

Straw man argument. Of course there has to be disparities of wealth to encourage people to work hard and do boring / hard jobs. But there's easily scope for a more equal society without the sky caving in. And it's only fair that once you have a certain level of wealth, you should have to work harder to increase it.

[buctootim]

The majority of people buying prime property in the mansion tax bracket are overseas investors and the super rich - neither of whom pay income tax in the Uk. the mansion tax is a small attempt to claw something back from them.

 

"Property Wire’s research indicates that up to 70% of buyers in the prime sector of the market are foreign, identifying tycoons from Russia, Italy, France and China as those making hefty investments, whilst “Royal families from the Middle East and Asia will typically spend £50 to £100 million on residential property in London’s West End” (Yahoo finance). Alongside customary oligarchs, research indicates that wealthy citizens from countries affected by the Eurozone are ever increasingly following suit (Evening Standard)."

[Lord Duckhunter]

So he didn't know the exact figure, big deal. If thats the criterion we should appoint the Grandmaster of Memory as PM and be done with it. His overall point is right - everyone knows Centrica made big profits, thanks to big price rises and poor investment levels.

 

Its a failing market that needs better regulation. Dont forget that this is just a temporary freeze to protect people's living standards until Labour can put in place a framework to properly regulate the market. They're not bringing back price controls on everything.

 

 

If you're going to go on national TV complaining about profits, surely you should have some sort of knowledge of what those profits are. Its basic research surely.

 

The thing is Red Ed was energy minister, when he could of done something, he didn't. Bills went up , energy companies made profits. Why has this suddenly occurred to him?

 

Even a dreamer like you can see what's going to happen when a price freeze is announced. What on earth do you think the energy companies are going to do with prices in the next year? What are people wanting to invest going to do? When asked by Adam boulton whether energy bills would be lower in real terms under labour than they are now, Red Ed was unable to answer. Anyone who can't see that this is a gimmick, proberly thought Michael foot was a great leader. What's the next policy announcement, free beer?

[Gemmel]

Straw man argument. Of course there has to be disparities of wealth to encourage people to work hard and do boring / hard jobs. But there's easily scope for a more equal society without the sky caving in. And it's only fair that once you have a certain level of wealth, you should have to work harder to increase it.

 

But what if the wealthy have worked, 2 , 3, 4 times as hard to earn their wealth

[Ex Lion Tamer]

If you're going to go on national TV complaining about profits, surely you should have some sort of knowledge of what those profits are. Its basic research surely.

The exact amount is irrelevant, we know that the profits are huge. They can't be expected to memorise every statistic.

 

The thing is Red Ed was energy minister, when he could of done something, he didn't. Bills went up , energy companies made profits. Why has this suddenly occurred to him?

It was a different time, such drastic action wasn't deemed to be necessary then, he had work within the guidelines of his party strategy, which was still operating under the neo-liberal orthodoxy.

 

Even a dreamer like you can see what's going to happen when a price freeze is announced. What on earth do you think the energy companies are going to do with prices in the next year? What are people wanting to invest going to do? When asked by Adam boulton whether energy bills would be lower in real terms under labour than they are now, Red Ed was unable to answer. Anyone who can't see that this is a gimmick, proberly thought Michael foot was a great leader. What's the next policy announcement, free beer?

When are you saying they are going to raise prices? By the end of the freeze the market will be properly regulated. There is a risk that they will rise before it is introduced but I trust the calculation that they won't rise much more than they would have done anyway - after all, we don't even know if Labour will get elected and the energy companies shouldn't want to risk damaging their reputations any further.

 

It's also hilarious to hear a Tory making accusations of populism, after the dumb immigration, benefits and Europe policies we've had to put up with.

 

And there's no need to use cheap insults by calling me a dreamer. It doesn't add any weight to your argument.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

But what if the wealthy have worked, 2 , 3, 4 times as hard to earn their wealth

They haven't.

 

And anyway, look at the graphs, they have at a guess 20 to 30 times as much wealth as even middle class people. Have they worked 20 times as hard as, say, a supermarket worker? Is that even possible?

Edited 25 September, 2013 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Gemmel]

They haven't.

 

What Rubbish. 99% of wealthy people I know work way more hours than your average 9 - 5 man in the street.

[solentstars]

But what if the wealthy have worked, 2 , 3, 4 times as hard to earn their wealth

yes all those bankers and energy company heads etc have sweated blood lol

 

 

 

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[Ex Lion Tamer]

What Rubbish. 99% of wealthy people I know work way more hours than your average 9 - 5 man in the street.

 

I don't deny they work hard, even harder than most people. But poor and middle class people work hard as well. And it's impossible to work even 10 times harder, there aren't enough hours in the day

Edited 25 September, 2013 by Ex Lion Tamer

[bridge too far]

What Rubbish. 99% of wealthy people I know work way more hours than your average 9 - 5 man in the street.

 

I don't know of anyone, these days, who works 'your average 9 - 5 "man" in the street' hours

[solentstars]

If you're going to go on national TV complaining about profits, surely you should have some sort of knowledge of what those profits are. Its basic research surely.

 

The thing is Red Ed was energy minister, when he could of done something, he didn't. Bills went up , energy companies made profits. Why has this suddenly occurred to him?

 

Even a dreamer like you can see what's going to happen when a price freeze is announced. What on earth do you think the energy companies are going to do with prices in the next year? What are people wanting to invest going to do? When asked by Adam boulton whether energy bills would be lower in real terms under labour than they are now, Red Ed was unable to answer. Anyone who can't see that this is a gimmick, proberly thought Michael foot was a great leader. What's the next policy announcement, free beer?

 

Got to agree unfortunately since the 80s labour and Tory's are just mouthpiece s for big businesses and its hard to spot any real diffences between them.red edd don't make me laugh he's not a patch on Denis Skinners generation.

 

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[Viking Warrior]

Millipede is totally dump . He states that homeowners will save 120 during his 20 month fuel freeze . That's £6 a month . What is this 120 based on a family of four an OAP , single person .

 

I suggest millipede re work his sums because the saving will be a lot less for a lot if people .. And what happens after 20 months yep the prices go up again. Millipede you have totally lost the plot

[Jonnyboy]

What Rubbish. 99% of wealthy people I know work way more hours than your average 9 - 5 man in the street.

 

So you know at least 100 wealthy people? How many hours do they each do compared to an average 40 hour worker?

[aintforever]

What Rubbish. 99% of wealthy people I know work way more hours than your average 9 - 5 man in the street.

 

Of the people I know I would say it is much more to do with what you do and your skill set as opposed to how hard you work.

 

The richest guy I know (a good salesman who started his own company) spends half his week on the golf course, he doesn't work nearly as hard as my carpenter mate. I earn more than my mate and I don't work any where as near as many hours because I happen to have a degree and more 'valued' skills.

 

The thing is everyone thinks they work hard, wether they clean loos or run a bank, the idea that pay in today's world is proportional to how hard you work is complete b*ll*x.

 

The system is completely screwed up, people who add no value to society can make millions with a click of a mouse dealing shares while soldiers risk their life doing the hardest job imaginable for absolute peanuts.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Millipede is totally dump . He states that homeowners will save 120 during his 20 month fuel freeze . That's £6 a month . What is this 120 based on a family of four an OAP , single person .

 

I suggest millipede re work his sums because the saving will be a lot less for a lot if people .. And what happens after 20 months yep the prices go up again. Millipede you have totally lost the plot

 

The other thing that needs to be factored in is the rises prior to (god forbid) a labour government.If prices go higher than they would have, how's that going to help? These private companies run rings round governments, particularly left leaning ones. Plus, the effect this will have on the man in the streets pension as I'm sure some of our pension funds will be invested in this sector. There's also a very good chance that this will be challenged as there's some doubt that European laws will allow it. More costs bought upon the poor old taxpayer.

 

I'm all for giving the working man some help,but take £6 less out of his pay packet a month, instead of trying to interfere with the free market. We could pay for it by making middle class families pay for their offsprings school dinners.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Of the people I know I would say it is much more to do with what you do and your skill set as opposed to how hard you work.

 

The richest guy I know (a good salesman who started his own company) spends half his week on the golf course, he doesn't work nearly as hard as my carpenter mate. I earn more than my mate and I don't work any where as near as many hours because I happen to have a degree and more 'valued' skills.

 

The thing is everyone thinks they work hard, wether they clean loos or run a bank, the idea that pay in today's world is proportional to how hard you work is complete b*ll*x.

 

The system is completely screwed up, people who add no value to society can make millions with a click of a mouse dealing shares while soldiers risk their life doing the hardest job imaginable for absolute peanuts.

 

Yeah, let's get rid of all these no marks making millions out of shares and invest our pension pots in your mate the chippy.We could also give everyone who is unemployed a job in a tractor factory.

[Batman]

Milliband/labour are throwing away what should be a shoe-in

[buctootim]

Yeah, let's get rid of all these no marks making millions out of shares and invest our pension pots in your mate the chippy.We could also give everyone who is unemployed a job in a tractor factory.

 

Thats incredibly naive. Investing in funds which are actively managed (the "no marks making millions out of shares") is much more expensive because of their salaries and bonuses, even though the majority underperform the stock market or barely match it. You'd be much better off investing in cheap market trackers and keeping their salaries in your account. They make nothing, and as everybody has seen with the derivatives traders, when they lose billions and trillions its us who pay, not them.

Edited 26 September, 2013 by buctootim

[buctootim]

Milliband/labour are throwing away what should be a shoe-in

 

Sad but true. You'd really struggle to make one decent competent cabinet from the combined talent in all the current party front benches.

[solentstars]

Sad but true. You'd really struggle to make one decent competent cabinet from the combined talent in all the current party front benches.

 

Unfortunately there are no giants in the labour party with vision who can inspire the ordinary people of this country they are just another Tory party of the management class.I think they will win the election by default has the godfrey bloom nutjobs wing of the Tory right will all be voting ukip.

 

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