Sheaf Saint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 .... We looked so much better and more likely to score after Lambert went off yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way writing him off because he still has a lot to offer. But I just don't see how we can accommodate him in our current game plan. Opposition teams have sussed out that he can be marked out of the game and it's costing us badly at the moment IMO. I honestly think we would be better off playing Davis or Gaston in the hole and using SRL as an impact sub to come on when the defenders are tiring. Just my opinion. No doubt many of you will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 The England call up clouded the issue somewhat as his recent form wasnt really worthy of a callup - his best spell was midway through last season I think. Don't disagree with what you say, having the extra midfield man helps you to control the game and provides on pitch flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 I think lambert has looked terrible at times this season Don't think he suite the number 10 role really and thought that we looked so much better with an extra bod in the middle of the park Davis was very good when he came on. Busy player, covers lots of ground. Rarely gives the ball away and gets into the box Just think we are better with 1 up top and I think ossie will sooner or later be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 .... We looked so much better and more likely to score after Lambert went off yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way writing him off because he still has a lot to offer. But I just don't see how we can accommodate him in our current game plan. Opposition teams have sussed out that he can be marked out of the game and it's costing us badly at the moment IMO. I honestly think we would be better off playing Davis or Gaston in the hole and using SRL as an impact sub to come on when the defenders are tiring. Just my opinion. No doubt many of you will disagree. I also hate to say it......I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 You're right of course - we scored so many more after he went off. Actually I think he's fine, as is osvaldo,and Lovren is clearly good value. Don't hink he is impact player though. Although TBH i don't really give a toss after 3 points. Savour the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 i also agree. There will be games that suit Lambert more than Osvaldo but as things stand i'd start with Osvaldo and alternate between Ramirez and Davis in the role behind him. We just look a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 I would start with the extra man in midfield and osvaldo up front with lambert on the bench as when hes with osvaldo they cancel each other out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 For some matches, against teams who park the buss in their own box at SMS, playing with two strikers could be the better option. We completely dominated against both Sunderland and West Ham, and only drew because of poor finishing and bad luck. But playing away, rotating Rickie and Osvaldo as lone strikers seems the better option. And please, lets not forget how amazing Rickie has been in the lone striker/target man role during the years! I dont think Osvaldo can match Rickie as a target man/lone striker. And this sort of questions the signing of Osvaldo; He is too good to be an understudy for Rickie, but not good enough to displace him as a lone striker...IMO. Rickie suits our style of play immensly better than Osvaldo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Davis looked a real threat yesterday, as he is willing to get the ball and run with it, but also keep running and get into dangerous places. He really suits our playing style in a way Lambert doesn't seem to at the moment. I know they naturally play different positions, but Davis did all the things we would hope a No.10 to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Just said something similar on another thread. I actually think he could do with dropping. The rest will probably do him good - he has barely had one for four years, and maybe getting dropped will give him a kick up the arse. To repeat myself again, I'm keen to see Ossie with Gaston playing off him, especially at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Players form comes and go, RL is on a bad spell but that's what the squad is for. Davis looked good so next game maybe start with him off Osvaldo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Sadly we were better without him on the day. Would feel sad for it if he lost his place, because losing his place for saints could lose him his place in the England team. That can't be MP's responsibility though, he has to go with the team he thinks will do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 I said it after the Norwich game and got slated.... He DOES NOT suit our system. We are just forcing ourselves to play him due to the England call up etc etc. No goals from him in open play this season, and only 2/3 from his last 10 goals (I think that's the stat I researched after the Norwich game) and he doesn't even look at all threatening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 .... We looked so much better and more likely to score after Lambert went off yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way writing him off because he still has a lot to offer. But I just don't see how we can accommodate him in our current game plan. Opposition teams have sussed out that he can be marked out of the game and it's costing us badly at the moment IMO. I honestly think we would be better off playing Davis or Gaston in the hole and using SRL as an impact sub to come on when the defenders are tiring. Just my opinion. No doubt many of you will disagree. I hate to say it regarding SRL, but I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 we were 1-0 up when he went off and were playing very much on the counter attack. Liverpool were chasing the game and Davis energy was useful in breaking up their attacks and coming forward. The fact is that MP got everything spot on yesterday, including the substitutions, the right players were on the pitch at the right times with everyone doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Judging him on goals alone, then he's definitely not at the top of his game - but I thought some of his work slightly deeper was really good. I think his impact is being underestimated at the moment. While I'm on about being underestimated...I was also surprised at Lallana's turn of pace yesterday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Judging him on goals alone, then he's definitely not at the top of his game - but I thought some of his work slightly deeper was really good. I think his impact is being underestimated at the moment. While I'm on about being underestimated...I was also surprised at Lallana's turn of pace yesterday too. good point at home to palace, no doubt it will be the same starting line up as yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Judging him on goals alone, then he's definitely not at the top of his game - but I thought some of his work slightly deeper was really good. I think his impact is being underestimated at the moment. While I'm on about being underestimated...I was also surprised at Lallana's turn of pace yesterday too. His play from deep wasn't as good as usual, some of his passing and decision making was poor. Safe to say he's on a turgid run of form at the moment. Weird that it coincidences with international recognition. Shows how sparse we are in the striker department to be honest. I have been very, very impressed with Lallana this season. He probably should have put away that chance yesterday, but he's involved all the time and is making a real name for himself this year. Looks a real threat again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Not slating Rickie or however this will be seen, but if he isn't first choice that is the beauty of having a good squad, there will be injuries and having the choice of Rickie being available from the bench if he doesn't start, then we are in a healthy position. Unfortunately I think Rickie's call up for England came at the wrong time for him personally and for the manager, for him he should have been called up before he was, and for Saints now he has been called up it causes the manager a dilema. If he was to drop Rickie then the fans would go into meltdown, more so than dropping Cork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 His play from deep wasn't as good as usual, some of his passing and decision making was poor. Safe to say he's on a turgid run of form at the moment. Weird that it coincidences with international recognition. Shows how sparse we are in the striker department to be honest. I have been very, very impressed with Lallana this season. He probably should have put away that chance yesterday, but he's involved all the time and is making a real name for himself this year. Looks a real threat again. agree with you about lallana. seems quicker this year (probably not carrying an injury) just wish he was better in the final 3rd as else where, he rarely gives the ball away and is very skill ful that turn and cross for lamberts fluffed effort was excellent. had lambert buried it (which he really should of) people would have been raving about lallana and his skill this morning on telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Not slating Rickie or however this will be seen, but if he isn't first choice that is the beauty of having a good squad, there will be injuries and having the choice of Rickie being available from the bench if he doesn't start, then we are in a healthy position. Unfortunately I think Rickie's call up for England came at the wrong time for him personally and for the manager, for him he should have been called up before he was, and for Saints now he has been called up it causes the manager a dilema. If he was to drop Rickie then the fans would go into meltdown, more so than dropping Cork. Well that's where he need to be brave and why he's paid a fortune to make decisions like that. The fans will only go into meltdown if it doesn't work, if we are winning and doing well then it'll be hailed as a great decision. It's been said a few time on here Lambert isn't ideally suited to our tactics really, if MP doesn't think so then he needs to be decisive and pick his team accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan abnormal Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Osvaldo looks far more likely to score at the moment. SRL is a legend but going on his recent saints form he should be dropped imo. We looked back to our best with an extra man in midfield, would like to see one of Davis or Gaston play instead of him against Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Again RL sublime skills are being overlooked. When he gets an understanding with Osvaldo you will then see their class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Felt he was trying TOO hard yesterday. Nothing else wrong with his performance, if he'd been relaxed he'd never have sliced that chance when he REALLY should have scored. Our forward problems are not stemming from Rickie IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 He's not been at it so far, but he's earnt our patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Felt he was trying TOO hard yesterday. Nothing else wrong with his performance, if he'd been relaxed he'd never have sliced that chance when he REALLY should have scored. Our forward problems are not stemming from Rickie IMHO agreed... those who think Lambert should be an impact sub need to realise how many defenders he takes out of the game; opposition teams know how dangerous he is. There is no reason why Osvaldo/Lambert cannot be in the same starting eleven.. compare the Sturridge/Suarez or Van Persie/Rooney debates. We are talking about players who can play in multiple offensive positions. We are lacking creativity in the final third which MP will already realise.. so you may see any 4 from lallana, Rodriques, Ramirez, Osvaldo, Davis and lambert going forwards.. its a squad not an eleven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_lambden Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 I'd start Osvaldo and put Lambert on the bench for now. Bring Rickie on with 20 to go if we need a goal. He's demonstrated he can make an impact from the bench before (V City, Chelsea last season; V Scotland last month). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 (edited) .... We looked so much better and more likely to score after Lambert went off yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way writing him off because he still has a lot to offer. But I just don't see how we can accommodate him in our current game plan. Opposition teams have sussed out that he can be marked out of the game and it's costing us badly at the moment IMO. I honestly think we would be better off playing Davis or Gaston in the hole and using SRL as an impact sub to come on when the defenders are tiring. Just my opinion. No doubt many of you will disagree. You have to take every game on its own merits. We looked good enough to get 3 points off Wham (but for Jaaskalainens's super show), and had it not been for Lovren's goal and Mignolet (who also turned in some great saves), then we might have got more goals yesterday. I don't apologise for bringing stats. into the discussion, but the (Prem.) average striker gets 1 goal every 3 games ...if he's good. Look at the " name " strikers who haven't got off the mark yet (5 games). Whilst we boast about possession and completed passes etc, consistancy is the one thing that eludes the majority of goalscorers, and they often suffer long " dry spells " ...and then score in bursts. I think Lambert, Rodriguez and Osvaldo have lots of goals in them, but we may have to wait a bit longer before we can see that in figures. The Palace game is a sure test for our strikers to prove their salt, and after that we can start to talk about " form and who to drop ". Let's just hope the Palace goalie doesn't play a blinder on Saturday. Edited 22 September, 2013 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 You have to take every game on its own merits. We looked good enough to get 3 points off Wham (but for Jaaskalainens's super show), and had it not been for Lovren's goal and Mignolet (who also turned in some great saves), then we might have got more goals yesterday. I don't apologise for bringing stats. into the discussion, but the (Prem.) average striker gets 1 goal every 3 games ...if he's good. Look at the " name " strikers who haven't got off the mark yet (5 games). Whilst we boast about possession and completed passes etc, consistancy is the one thing that eludes the majority of goalscorers, and they often suffer long " dry spells " ...and then score in bursts. I think Lambert, Rodriguez and Osvaldo have lots of goals in them, but we may have to wait a bit longer before we can see that in figures. The Palace game is a sure test for our strikers to prove their salt, and after that we can start to talk about " form and who to drop ". Let's just hope the Palace goalie doesn't play a blinder on Saturday. Jaaskalainen may have made a couple of good saves but his performance didn't warrant some of the out of this world efforts I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Osvaldo looks far more likely to score at the moment. SRL is a legend but going on his recent saints form he should be dropped imo. We looked back to our best with an extra man in midfield, would like to see one of Davis or Gaston play instead of him against Palace. Um NO Osvaldo doesn't as can be judged by his NO goals so far. There really is no need to tinker with this aspect of the team which works so well at the moment and I guess MP is well aware of this. The front six are achieving exactly what he wants - putting pressure on their back 4 AND also creating a lot of chances. We haven't yet been as good as we might be at taking those yet and Osvaldo (0 goals so far) has been one of the guilty parties. So, for Saints, has Lambert (3 goals so far this season and 2 of those in the heady atmosphere of international football). It won't be long before he does register though and if I was Palace I would be very afraid. So afraid I might even play 4 centre-backs.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Um NO Osvaldo doesn't as can be judged by his NO goals so far. There really is no need to tinker with this aspect of the team which works so well at the moment and I guess MP is well aware of this. The front six are achieving exactly what he wants - putting pressure on their back 4 AND also creating a lot of chances. We haven't yet been as good as we might be at taking those yet and Osvaldo (0 goals so far) has been one of the guilty parties. So, for Saints, has Lambert (3 goals so far this season and 2 of those in the heady atmosphere of international football). It won't be long before he does register though and if I was Palace I would be very afraid. So afraid I might even play 4 centre-backs.......... actually, ossie does look more like scoring than lambert. quite remarkable how anyone can say otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Agree we looked better yesterday when Rickie went off, but that's not a criticism of Lambert, rather an admission that the two can't work together at present. Still very much a work in progress, but would have had the same effect if Osvaldo came off instead of Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Dave Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Rickie didnt look interest vs Liverpool last season, I think his emotional attachment to Liverpool is too great. Let's face it would any of you lot be up for playing against Saints? Would you play to your best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Um NO Osvaldo doesn't as can be judged by his NO goals so far. There really is no need to tinker with this aspect of the team which works so well at the moment and I guess MP is well aware of this. The front six are achieving exactly what he wants - putting pressure on their back 4 AND also creating a lot of chances. We haven't yet been as good as we might be at taking those yet and Osvaldo (0 goals so far) has been one of the guilty parties. So, for Saints, has Lambert (3 goals so far this season and 2 of those in the heady atmosphere of international football). It won't be long before he does register though and if I was Palace I would be very afraid. So afraid I might even play 4 centre-backs.......... So now we are counting goals in the national team as "ours" in which one of those were a friendly.....(Osvaldo scored a few, I think 4-5, in friendlies for Roma.... should we count those??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WealdSaint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Once RL and Osvaldo build up an understanding they will be awsome. Players like Osvaldo thrive on neat little flicks from other players, and RL is the man to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiresaint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 I also hate to say it......I agree. Couldn't agree more. Been saying it for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 We did look better when Rickie went off. Osvaldo seemed more dangerous with an extra midfielder to play off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Even if he'd kept up last season's level, it's logical for him to be playing deeper when we've got a pacy striker in the same team, and that almost guarantees he's going to score fewer this season anyway. Without considering his age, squad rotation, pressing, England, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 (edited) Once RL and Osvaldo build up an understanding they will be awsome. Players like Osvaldo thrive on neat little flicks from other players, and RL is the man to do it RL first name on the team sheet. Really struggling to understand some of you footballing posters.......My arse:rolleyes: He is still the greatest. True class Edited 22 September, 2013 by ottery st mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 It was going to happen sooner or later, I'm just surprised it took us so long to sign the top-class striker we would always need to compete for European places. Of course we now need another 2 of them for the requisite competition for places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 As much as I love them, people need to get over the shock of a manager subbing Lambert or Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Osvaldo held up/linked up well yesterday, so it does seem as if it should be one or the other at the mo. And Davis has earned a chance in the first team if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel=God-Poyet=Sod Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Thought Jay Rod was really subdued yesterday. Barely noticed he was playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Thought Jay Rod was really subdued yesterday. Barely noticed he was playing. I did but it was a typical performance from him. He worked hard, closed down but on the ball yet again he just lacked that belief in himself to beat the man or take a shot, he's such a confidence player I worry he won't ever fulfil his potential because of it. Just lacks that self belief that all the top players have to back himself to do something. He can do it, as we saw last season when he was red hot for a while, he has all the attributes except maybe the vital one that separates to great from the good, that of tremendous self belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 22 September, 2013 Share Posted 22 September, 2013 Read this article from Gary Neville last year. Interesting points in it about how to get the best out of players both on and off the pitch in the final third of their career. I think SRL will get less game time this year, how he reacts to that will determine whether we get better performances as a result. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2106465/Gary-Neville-Ryan-Giggs-Paul-Scholes-way-age.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 23 September, 2013 Share Posted 23 September, 2013 I think the only way we'll get away with having both Lambert and Ossie in the same team is by having the two proper wingers that would enable us to go 4-4-2. An old school Bale and Lennon from 2-3 years ago type combo who'll both burn their respective full-backs and cross the ball. Trouble is Lallana can twist and turn but can't burn past a full-back the way we'd like him to and Rodriguez simply isn't a winger. Likewise neither Ossie nor Lambert are number 10s. We've condemned ourselves to playing 4-2-3-1 and as such, I think you have to make the choice between Lambert and Osvaldo, and then Davis and Ramirez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studentsaint Posted 23 September, 2013 Share Posted 23 September, 2013 I think it was more Davis changing us for the better rather than RL going off. Davis was outstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 23 September, 2013 Share Posted 23 September, 2013 I think it was more Davis changing us for the better rather than RL going off. Davis was outstanding yeah this is true, we would have seen the same improvement if it was Osvaldo what got subbed. Better shape for keep-ball innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel=God-Poyet=Sod Posted 23 September, 2013 Share Posted 23 September, 2013 I think it was more Davis changing us for the better rather than RL going off. Davis was outstanding Agreed. Davis was fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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