View from the oppo

[Saint Garrett]

Some interesting comments on here:

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308744.80

 

Seem to be a bit worried about our midfield, but one rightly says that if we play 442 we'll get beat.

[trousers]

Some interesting comments on here:

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308744.80

 

Seem to be a bit worried about our midfield, but one rightly says that if we play 442 we'll get beat.

 

This chap certainly knows his onions....

 

There's several interesting decisions to be made in the line up for this match.

 

I watched Southampton's 0-0 draw with West Ham and although the quality from both teams was mediocre, Southampton were clearly the better team and they will be a hard team to play against. They're playing a 4-4-2 now with both Lambert and Osvaldo up front. Lambert is obviously very good in the air but pretty mobile as well and makes good runs in the channels which create space. Osvaldo's combinations and technique on the ball is good and he is also fast and good in the air.

 

Generally they like to penetrate through the middle, playing penetrating passes and pressing aggressively and narrow when they lose the ball. This does mean there is space to play out if you switch play quickly and play with dynamic width and combinations in the wide areas. When we lost 3-1 to them last season this was something we didn't do well enough and if we play out through these areas and beat their press then we can have some success.

 

One way West Ham caused them problems was by full pressing on certain occasions - from goal kicks Southampton looked to pass their way out and so West Ham looked to push up high onto their defence and mark short passing options. Boruc in goal is pretty uncomfortable in ball possession and so they do have problems with this approach and their play can be disrupted here. Again there is a problem with this approach - in the second half on Sunday, Southampton played with quicker transitions from front to back and played more direct which meant that they beat the press and that there was then big spaces inside caused by West Ham's loss of shape. Again it's about finding a balance here - knowing when to press ('lock down' from throw ins) and knowing when to retreat into a block.

 

I don't want to see us become as passive as we were often in the second half against Swansea, we need to match retaining shape with pressing and stopping their midfielders getting time on the ball. Something Southampton struggled with on Sunday is a lack of a link player between the lines. They lost fluidity in their attack because of this so if we make sure we keep our shape but also press their midfielders, they'll struggle.

 

As for the starting line up, there's a few options. It's tempting to play a back three partly because of Osvaldo and Lambert. Having wing backs able to stay wide and push up with the cover of a back three is the main strength for me because of how narrow Southampton press and how much space there can be if you switch the play quickly. I doubt we'll see it but it's definitely an option.

 

If we assume though that we stay with 4-2-3-1, there's still some decisions to be made. I'd want to see the centre backs play off the front foot and pressure tightly when Osvaldo goes short to receive the ball and I think it's really important we don't drop too deep so if Agger is back, I'd drop Skrtel and play either Toure or Sakho at right centre back. Sakho is tempting because of the way he plays and because although Lambert likes to make runs in the inside left channel (our right), he likes to do that so he can cut inside on his right foot, which would mean Sakho's stronger left foot. It's a small detail but it might be tempting although I think Toure might be favourite to start above him.

 

The key decisions I think are in the wide areas. As I said, I think it's important to have dynamic play on the flanks against Southampton and to be able to switch play quickly. I don't think it's ideal to overly concentrate those on those areas to penetrate - Shaw and Clyne are very good full backs with quick recovery speed and West Ham were very reliant on Jarvis on the left on Sunday yet Clyne almost completely shut him off and played him very well 1v1. However I think the full backs are going to be important. It's why I'd be tempted to start Henderson at right back over Wisdom because I'd trust him more in terms of technical ability and getting forward in attack. If we played Moses and Sterling on the wings it would give us a good option for overloads 2v1 and to then create space in the middle for Sturridge up front and Gerrard picking up pull backs or making late runs.

 

As for who replaces Coutinho, I think it will be Aspas and I don't think it's a bad idea. If we play with width then we don't want there to become too much space inside and again I think it's important to try and disrupt their passing so I think playing Aspas there, even if it's just for trying to pressure Wanyama and the free Southampton centre back when pressing high, is not necessarily a bad idea.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Good analysis that

[buctootim]

This chap certainly knows his onions....

 

Originally Posted by lankyguy007

There's several interesting decisions to be made in the line up for this match.

 

I watched Southampton's 0-0 draw with West Ham and although the quality from both teams was mediocre, Southampton were clearly the better team and they will be a hard team to play against. They're playing a 4-4-2 now with both Lambert and Osvaldo up front. Lambert is obviously very good in the air but pretty mobile as well and makes good runs in the channels which create space. Osvaldo's combinations and technique on the ball is good and he is also fast and good in the air.

 

Generally they like to penetrate through the middle, playing penetrating passes and pressing aggressively and narrow when they lose the ball. This does mean there is space to play out if you switch play quickly and play with dynamic width and combinations in the wide areas. When we lost 3-1 to them last season this was something we didn't do well enough and if we play out through these areas and beat their press then we can have some success.

 

One way West Ham caused them problems was by full pressing on certain occasions - from goal kicks Southampton looked to pass their way out and so West Ham looked to push up high onto their defence and mark short passing options. Boruc in goal is pretty uncomfortable in ball possession and so they do have problems with this approach and their play can be disrupted here. Again there is a problem with this approach - in the second half on Sunday, Southampton played with quicker transitions from front to back and played more direct which meant that they beat the press and that there was then big spaces inside caused by West Ham's loss of shape. Again it's about finding a balance here - knowing when to press ('lock down' from throw ins) and knowing when to retreat into a block.

 

I don't want to see us become as passive as we were often in the second half against Swansea, we need to match retaining shape with pressing and stopping their midfielders getting time on the ball. Something Southampton struggled with on Sunday is a lack of a link player between the lines. They lost fluidity in their attack because of this so if we make sure we keep our shape but also press their midfielders, they'll struggle.

 

As for the starting line up, there's a few options. It's tempting to play a back three partly because of Osvaldo and Lambert. Having wing backs able to stay wide and push up with the cover of a back three is the main strength for me because of how narrow Southampton press and how much space there can be if you switch the play quickly. I doubt we'll see it but it's definitely an option.

 

If we assume though that we stay with 4-2-3-1, there's still some decisions to be made. I'd want to see the centre backs play off the front foot and pressure tightly when Osvaldo goes short to receive the ball and I think it's really important we don't drop too deep so if Agger is back, I'd drop Skrtel and play either Toure or Sakho at right centre back. Sakho is tempting because of the way he plays and because although Lambert likes to make runs in the inside left channel (our right), he likes to do that so he can cut inside on his right foot, which would mean Sakho's stronger left foot. It's a small detail but it might be tempting although I think Toure might be favourite to start above him.

 

The key decisions I think are in the wide areas. As I said, I think it's important to have dynamic play on the flanks against Southampton and to be able to switch play quickly. I don't think it's ideal to overly concentrate those on those areas to penetrate - Shaw and Clyne are very good full backs with quick recovery speed and West Ham were very reliant on Jarvis on the left on Sunday yet Clyne almost completely shut him off and played him very well 1v1. However I think the full backs are going to be important. It's why I'd be tempted to start Henderson at right back over Wisdom because I'd trust him more in terms of technical ability and getting forward in attack. If we played Moses and Sterling on the wings it would give us a good option for overloads 2v1 and to then create space in the middle for Sturridge up front and Gerrard picking up pull backs or making late runs.

 

As for who replaces Coutinho, I think it will be Aspas and I don't think it's a bad idea. If we play with width then we don't want there to become too much space inside and again I think it's important to try and disrupt their passing so I think playing Aspas there, even if it's just for trying to pressure Wanyama and the free Southampton centre back when pressing high, is not necessarily a bad idea.

 

 

Can you imagine him on this forum? Apart from maybe Chez and DuncanRG he'd be friendless with insightful football posts like that.

[Jack]

Can't understand why there are that many Liverpool fans concerned by us. If we're as sloppy as we have been in the last 2, and why would we not be, I can't see us having much joy there.

[grezz]

Can you imagine him on this forum? Apart from maybe Chez and DuncanRG he'd be friendless with insightful football posts like that.

 

I hate him already the eloquent, knowledgeable, impartially analytic swine!

[Window Cleaner]

Can't understand why there are that many Liverpool fans concerned by us. If we're as sloppy as we have been in the last 2, and why would we not be, I can't see us having much joy there.

 

 

Really ? if we were to create as many chances as we did in the West Ham game but convert say 2 of them this time we would have them rattled. Must have had about 8 or 9 chances and efforts that could easily go in on another day.

[DuncanRG]

I think he's got us pretty much nailed, but I'm still expecting Pochettino to revert to one striker when we go away to play top teams. One less striker means there's a man to plug the gap between attack and midfield, which was a problem on Sunday and will only worsen if it's not fixed away from home. I think Davis will (or should) be our man - he's never marked out of games and even if they press him hard he's normally got his head up often enough to spot Lallana, Rodriguez et al and pick them out quickly.

[Griffo]

This chap certainly knows his onions....

 

What an absolute load of boring b*llocks.

[Delboy Dave]

Macca666 has got it about right!

[Smirking_Saint]

Can you imagine him on this forum? Apart from maybe Chez and DuncanRG he'd be friendless with insightful football posts like that.

 

And so ignored or branded a know it all

 

Decent enough analysis mind

[Jack]

Really ? if we were to create as many chances as we did in the West Ham game but convert say 2 of them this time we would have them rattled. Must have had about 8 or 9 chances and efforts that could easily go in on another day.

 

If we give the ball away when we're out of defensive shape, like we did loads of times against Norwich and West Ham, we'll find it tough. Teams like Liverpool punish mistakes. Luckily for us, West Ham are ******* ****e going forward.

[captainchris]

I think he's got us pretty much nailed, but I'm still expecting Pochettino to revert to one striker when we go away to play top teams. One less striker means there's a man to plug the gap between attack and midfield, which was a problem on Sunday and will only worsen if it's not fixed away from home. I think Davis will (or should) be our man - he's never marked out of games and even if they press him hard he's normally got his head up often enough to spot Lallana, Rodriguez et al and pick them out quickly.

 

Best post of the week

[Lord Duckhunter]

Its interesting that this scouse guy posted that he'd be tempted to go with a back 3, because this ties in with something that's got me thinking.

 

This morning I listened to The Times podcast, Stewart Robson (who really knows his stuff. ) was talking about Everton. He said that in the summer Roberto Martinez told him he'd eventually go with a back 3 at Everton , because Coleman and Baines were natural wing backs. A discusion the followed around Wigan and their back 3. He said that Martinez played a 3-6-1 turning into a 3-4-3 when they had the ball. Robson said this was unusual because the Italians are the main cheerleaders of 3 at the back and they play it with 2 up top. Basically a 3-5-2. Started me thinking Osvaldo,, Italians , maybe long term this could be the answer to the srl/osvaldo puzzle.

 

Lovren and Yoshida as the wide centre halfs as I beleive they've both played full back , with Jose central.

 

Clyne and Shaw as wing backs with victor, ms and one of lallana (at home) or Davis /cork (away) centrally.

 

Rickie and Osvaldo up top.

 

Wouldn't recommend using it sat, but provided it doesn't mess up the promising centre half partnership we have at present, would be worth working on. I suppose one issue is the back Ups, fox and chambers couldn't do it. Its also worth noting that Martinez has gone with a back 4 so far.

 

I dont know what others think, i would have dismissed it days ago, but Robson and now this Liverpool poster have me thinking.

[The9]

Can you imagine him on this forum? Apart from maybe Chez and DuncanRG he'd be friendless with insightful football posts like that.

 

I thought at least half of it was groundless bo11ocks, starting with "they're playing 4-4-2 now...".

[The9]

Its interesting that this scouse guy posted that he'd be tempted to go with a back 3, because this ties in with something that's got me thinking.

 

This morning I listened to The Times podcast, Stewart Robson (who really knows his stuff. ) was talking about Everton. He said that in the summer Roberto Martinez told him he'd eventually go with a back 3 at Everton , because Coleman and Baines were natural wing backs. A discusion the followed around Wigan and their back 3. He said that Martinez played a 3-6-1 turning into a 3-4-3 when they had the ball. Robson said this was unusual because the Italians are the main cheerleaders of 3 at the back and they play it with 2 up top. Basically a 3-5-2. Started me thinking Osvaldo,, Italians , maybe long term this could be the answer to the srl/osvaldo puzzle.

 

Lovren and Yoshida as the wide centre halfs as I beleive they've both played full back , with Jose central.

 

Clyne and Shaw as wing backs with victor, ms and one of lallana (at home) or Davis /cork (away) centrally.

 

Rickie and Osvaldo up top.

 

Wouldn't recommend using it sat, but provided it doesn't mess up the promising centre half partnership we have at present, would be worth working on. I suppose one issue is the back Ups, fox and chambers couldn't do it. Its also worth noting that Martinez has gone with a back 4 so far.

 

I dont know what others think, i would have dismissed it days ago, but Robson and now this Liverpool poster have me thinking.

 

Someone mentioned us playing back 3 on here earlier in the week (maybe it was in the West Ham thread last week), we basically play 2 at the back half the time so it would actually make us more defensive in many situations - and of course the 6 man midfield is similar to what we already have if you consider the roles of the full backs.

[Saint_clark]

Can't understand why there are that many Liverpool fans concerned by us. If we're as sloppy as we have been in the last 2, and why would we not be, I can't see us having much joy there.

 

There's also a fair number of them talking about giving Gerrard the game off and bringing in fringe players to give them a chance to prove themselves, for balance.

[Stepgar]

There's also a fair number of them talking about giving Gerrard the game off and bringing in fringe players to give them a chance to prove themselves, for balance.

 

I think when you're sat top of table unbeaten scoring at ease it does raise your confidence levels. Let them be confident as quite often complacency come with complacency. We have seen it a hundred times of the past few seasons.

[alpine_saint]

Can you imagine him on this forum? Apart from maybe Chez and DuncanRG he'd be friendless with insightful football posts like that.

 

Our very own Derry is on a par with this chap.

[Golden Balls]

Its interesting that this scouse guy posted that he'd be tempted to go with a back 3, because this ties in with something that's got me thinking.

 

This morning I listened to The Times podcast, Stewart Robson (who really knows his stuff. ) was talking about Everton. He said that in the summer Roberto Martinez told him he'd eventually go with a back 3 at Everton , because Coleman and Baines were natural wing backs. A discusion the followed around Wigan and their back 3. He said that Martinez played a 3-6-1 turning into a 3-4-3 when they had the ball. Robson said this was unusual because the Italians are the main cheerleaders of 3 at the back and they play it with 2 up top. Basically a 3-5-2. Started me thinking Osvaldo,, Italians , maybe long term this could be the answer to the srl/osvaldo puzzle.

 

Lovren and Yoshida as the wide centre halfs as I beleive they've both played full back , with Jose central.

 

Clyne and Shaw as wing backs with victor, ms and one of lallana (at home) or Davis /cork (away) centrally.

 

Rickie and Osvaldo up top.

 

Wouldn't recommend using it sat, but provided it doesn't mess up the promising centre half partnership we have at present, would be worth working on. I suppose one issue is the back Ups, fox and chambers couldn't do it. Its also worth noting that Martinez has gone with a back 4 so far.

 

I dont know what others think, i would have dismissed it days ago, but Robson and now this Liverpool poster have me thinking.

 

Hoddle was/is a big fan of that formation. I also like it.

[Saint Garrett]

Thing is we almost play like that anyway, as when we have the ball, the DM generally sits between the two CB's and becomes the 3rd CB and the two full backs push on.

 

------CB------CB--------

----------DM------------

RB------- CM---------LB

-----AM-------AM-------

-------ST--ST----------

 

Or last year it was more of a

 

------CB------CB--------

----------DM------------

RB------- CM---------LB

--AM-----AM-------AM--

----------ST------------

[SuperMikey]

Its interesting that this scouse guy posted that he'd be tempted to go with a back 3, because this ties in with something that's got me thinking.

 

This morning I listened to The Times podcast, Stewart Robson (who really knows his stuff. ) was talking about Everton. He said that in the summer Roberto Martinez told him he'd eventually go with a back 3 at Everton , because Coleman and Baines were natural wing backs. A discusion the followed around Wigan and their back 3. He said that Martinez played a 3-6-1 turning into a 3-4-3 when they had the ball. Robson said this was unusual because the Italians are the main cheerleaders of 3 at the back and they play it with 2 up top. Basically a 3-5-2. Started me thinking Osvaldo,, Italians , maybe long term this could be the answer to the srl/osvaldo puzzle.

 

Lovren and Yoshida as the wide centre halfs as I beleive they've both played full back , with Jose central.

 

Clyne and Shaw as wing backs with victor, ms and one of lallana (at home) or Davis /cork (away) centrally.

 

Rickie and Osvaldo up top.

 

Wouldn't recommend using it sat, but provided it doesn't mess up the promising centre half partnership we have at present, would be worth working on. I suppose one issue is the back Ups, fox and chambers couldn't do it. Its also worth noting that Martinez has gone with a back 4 so far.

 

I dont know what others think, i would have dismissed it days ago, but Robson and now this Liverpool poster have me thinking.

 

--------------BORUC----------------

------MAYA---FONTE---LOVREN-----

CLYNE--MORGAN---WANYAMA--SHAW

--------------LALLANA--------------

---------RICKIE----OSVALDO--------

 

Not too bad.

[CB Saint]

--------------BORUC----------------

------MAYA---FONTE---LOVREN-----

CLYNE--MORGAN---WANYAMA--SHAW

--------------LALLANA--------------

---------RICKIE----OSVALDO--------

 

Not too bad.

 

Switch Lallana for rameriez and I reckon could be an outstanding side

[Golden Balls]

Switch Lallana for rameriez and I reckon could be an outstanding side

 

Agreed.

[SuperMikey]

Switch Lallana for rameriez and I reckon could be an outstanding side

 

I dunno, think we need Lallana in there for his energy and movement. Ramirez needs to be carried.

[dellboypete]

Hoddle was/is a big fan of that formation. I also like it.

 

Me too

 

And with Clyne and Shaw being so quick and good on and off the ball, that allows an enormous amount of fluidity at the back and in midfield. Combined with Morgan's ability to play deep if needed it should give us the ability to dominate midfield and allow clyne and shaw to break up the wings when they can.

[Lord Duckhunter]

--------------BORUC----------------

------MAYA---FONTE---LOVREN-----

CLYNE--MORGAN---WANYAMA--SHAW

--------------LALLANA--------------

---------RICKIE----OSVALDO--------

 

Not too bad.

 

I would play Davis instead of Lallana away from home.

 

The formation looks good on paper, but bedding it in could be a problem. Pre season was the time to get the 3 at the back playing together, but if anyone can an international centre half should be able to. The other issue is injuries. Whilst JRod , Rameriez & Cork could easily fit in, I cant see Fox or Chambers being wing backs, and god help us if Jos has to play in a 3.

[saintbob40]

--------------BORUC----------------

------MAYA---FONTE---LOVREN-----

CLYNE--MORGAN---WANYAMA--SHAW

--------------LALLANA--------------

---------RICKIE----OSVALDO--------

 

Not too bad.

 

We are effectively playing with three centre backs in any event with VW in place as he doesn't tend to move across to cover the flanks much ( e.g Norwich goal -which JWP and Chambers took the rap for).

[ericb]

Southampton are a formidable side...

 

Southampton knew exactly what they were doing when pressing us high up the pitch,

 

Outplayed at Anfield. By Southampton. Fair play to them though, pressing, movement and passing were 10x better then ours. Why can't we play like that consistently?

 

Fair play to Southampton.

 

The ugly truth is they were better, much better. Not only that, Brendan got out managed as he did at the Dell last season.

 

We had no answer to their high press without taking into account the woeful decision to play four center halves or the decision to push Sturridge wide to accommodate the inadequate looking Aspas.

 

The midfield of Gerrard and Lucas was for most of the game nothing more than a liability and oh for a Wanyama.

 

Best team won.

 

Southampton look like a team coached by Rafa.

 

First to everything, never gave up, looked comfortable all the game.

 

Kudos to Southampton, they were everything we were not. The won every 1 v 1 duel. They were quicker to every ball. Their pressing from the front was sublime. It looked like we were playing a man down.

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308792.240

[Olallana]

At the Dell.....

[Jack]

At the Dell.....

 

Liverpool fans in living in the past shocker.

[niceandfriendly]

Oh, that sounds so nice... "At the Dell..."

 

Love St Mary's but miss the Dell.

[BlakeySFC]

At the Dell.....

 

Dwight Yorke said much the same last weekend after the Saints V WHU game as well and he's meant to be a 'football pundit'

[Bearsy]

Liverpool fans in living in the past shocker.

 

lol