Is football now sterile one sided and boring?

[Barry Sanchez]

Just talking to a colleague concerning the demise of football, he is a Liverpool fan and sees it as everything is ok but to me the premiership has stifled competition and limited the scope smaller clubs can rise.

The false elevation of the bigger clubs due to the overseas market of selling shirts and tv rights as opposed to the domestic one has swayed the gap even further than it used to, what chance do we really ever have of being a middle club ever breaking into the higher echelons and too be honest is it worth it?

To go Worldwide is to sell your soul and be at the mercy of the markets for a club like us, people from China will move onto another club that is doing well and we will be left in the mire, my point is what is the point of us having to sell our soul on a gamble of us doing well?

Why dont the larger clubs leave for a European Super League and leave us to form a competitive domestic League, I am talking about Liverpool, Arsenal. United, City and Chelsea as they use us as a tool to further themselves in Europe and not as an English partner in the leagues.

[bangkoksaint]

I think you make a fair point. I love my club and seeing them play. The joy I get is seeing them play and then hopefully winning. I can honestly say that I enjoyed it more when we were in the Championship and League One. I was able to get tickets, it wasn't a rip off and the fans that went were the ones that really wanted to see their club. The Premiership is sheer gluttony and is way out of touch. I enjoyed seeing players like Sharp, Barnard etc who came to us with a real point to prove and were English. When I look at the likes of OSvaldo, Wanyama and Lovren they may be better but they don't care about us or the league it's just money. To me football at this level is losing its appeal.

[Saint Troy]

I think you make a fair point. I love my club and seeing them play. The joy I get is seeing them play and then hopefully winning. I can honestly say that I enjoyed it more when we were in the Championship and League One. I was able to get tickets, it wasn't a rip off and the fans that went were the ones that really wanted to see their club. The Premiership is sheer gluttony and is way out of touch. I enjoyed seeing players like Sharp, Barnard etc who came to us with a real point to prove and were English. When I look at the likes of OSvaldo, Wanyama and Lovren they may be better but they don't care about us or the league it's just money. To me football at this level is losing its appeal.

 

I get some of the sentiment I really do and the argument of prem vs lower leagues is complicated, interesting and very personal. However, Lee Barnard joined us in League One from another League One club to prove himself but Lovren from a champions league club to a non champions league club didn't? Barnard was proving himself just as well at a different team - saints likely offered him more money and more chance of moving up the leagues in the team he was in - is that proving yourself or wanting the best for yourself like everyone does? Im not sure how you have judged how they care for us really - be interesting to understand this because in my opinion Lovren has a huge amount of passion and is keen to fit in in the city and the club - again maybe for selfish reasons but hard to know how hes any different? Did Fonte drop a league to prove himself? Did Lallana stay to prove himself or should he have gone to prove himself? Its a lot more complicated than being British and joining a club in a lower division!

[Bucks Saint]

Man Utd to introduce a singing section:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24153904

 

When a club like Utd (with their home win rate etc etc) have to do this, it says it all really

[angelman]

In short yes, and while I am enthusiastic about following Saints this season, I can see a time when I give up on football, bin the season ticket, and just watch us on TV. The PL is 6 vs the rest. And those 6 don't care about the PL too much, as they just use it as an access point to CL. You mention a European Super League and that teams should go off and set up and leave the rest of us to get on with it. If that does happen, as some in CL think that there are too many weak teams in it, then I will give up with football.

[Rut]

Just talking to a colleague concerning the demise of football, he is a Liverpool fan

 

I bet he ain't got a Scouse accent.

[OttawaSaint]

I find the style of football in the Prem to be really poor. There isn't the excitement that there used to be and games often reach half time at 0-0. Maybe with all the money at stake teams are less likely to throw caution to the wind.

[Barry Sanchez]

I bet he ain't got a Scouse accent.

 

He has funnily enough but I live here so there are a few but I hate the fact people decide to support a "glory" team as such as if they supported their own football would be much more equal and enjoyable.

Idealistic I know.

[JoeShmoe]

Just talking to a colleague concerning the demise of football, he is a Liverpool fan and sees it as everything is ok but to me the premiership has stifled competition and limited the scope smaller clubs can rise.

The false elevation of the bigger clubs due to the overseas market of selling shirts and tv rights as opposed to the domestic one has swayed the gap even further than it used to, what chance do we really ever have of being a middle club ever breaking into the higher echelons and too be honest is it worth it?

To go Worldwide is to sell your soul and be at the mercy of the markets for a club like us, people from China will move onto another club that is doing well and we will be left in the mire, my point is what is the point of us having to sell our soul on a gamble of us doing well?

Why dont the larger clubs leave for a European Super League and leave us to form a competitive domestic League, I am talking about Liverpool, Arsenal. United, City and Chelsea as they use us as a tool to further themselves in Europe and not as an English partner in the leagues.

 

Sadly football as a sport at this level isn't about fans or passion or coaching or anything, its all about money. Owners, players, stadiums, sponsors, investors

 

There was a lot to like about being an L1 club where it was all about players and fans and now it's all rather soulless

 

Football will end up eating itself though, cant sustain the level of investment and the rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer. There will be a euro super league within the next 10 years as TV, Sponsors and Owners will demand it

[JN9]

People get very nostalgic about the L1 and championship years, and while it was great fun, I can't help but think that that was only because Saints did very well in those leagues. I'm not so sure that your average League 1 team fan is hoping that their team does not get promoted as the football only gets more and more soulless the higher up the leagues you go.

 

There is still competition in the game, and clubs can do well with good old fashioned hard work, clubs like Stoke, Swansea and Wigan have shown that. Sadly there does seem to be a bit of a glass ceiling and (unless there is massive investment) no club is going to break into that top 6-7 places in the premier league.

[hypochondriac]

We were terrible in the championship before we got relegated and I had a great time when we stayed up on the past day and even when we lost to Derby in the playoff year.

[Barry Sanchez]

If there is a glass ceiling what is the point of competing? Would this happen in any other business? Or sport? I would to say that any professional team could make the Premierleague one day and compete but that is not the case and even fewer compete to win it, its pretty pointless isn't it?

So we support our team and hope we dont sell players so we can slowly progress, I love the game but its waning and the main reason is its simply not our game anymore and only a few can win and only a few can sustain it.

[JN9]

We were terrible in the championship before we got relegated and I had a great time when we stayed up on the past day and even when we lost to Derby in the playoff year.

 

I thought someone might bring this up... I don't really know too much about it as I wasn't really watching football at this time.

 

In fact I was an armchair Villa fan at that time.

 

I've been going since we were relegated into League 1. I fancied going to a live game so me and the missus went down (I think we were playing Rochdale, but I might be wrong), really enjoyed it and have been enjoying the ride ever since...

 

Sadly I fear, like others, that the ride may be over quite shortly when we hit mid table mediocraty and then the only way is down... I can't really see anything else happening unless there is much more investment...

[SW5 SAINT]

The way I look at it now is, that if Southampton were relegated it would be no big thing for me. However when it happened in 2005 it seemed like the end of the world........

[angelman]

People get very nostalgic about the L1 .............

 

To me I get nostalgic about the First Division. But even then, the top 6 (as below) featured a lot of the same teams and of course was dominated by Liverpool. Were things any more level then than now? I guess you have to say that they were given the odd "smaller" team coming so high up, and indeed Villa winning it. But the team that shows the biggest change to today is Everton - a force in the 80s but currently have little or no chance of winning the league or even finishing top 4.

 

1980/1: Villa, Ipswich, Arsenal, WBA, Liverpool, Saints

1981/2: Liverpool, Ipswich, ManU, Spurs, Arsenal, Swansea

1982/3: Liverpool, Watford, ManU, Spurs, Forest, Villa

1983/4: Liverpool, Saints, Forest, ManU, QPR, Arsenal

1984/5: Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, ManU, Saints, Chelsea

1985/6: Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, ManU, Shef Wed, Chelsea

1986/7: Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Norwich, Wimbledon

1987/8: Liverpool, Manu, Forest, Everton, QPR, Arsenal

1988/9: Arsenal, Liverpool, Forest, Norwich, Derby, Spurs

1989/90: Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton

 

I don't really care who it is, whether it be us, West Ham, Swansea, Villa, etc etc but I would dearly love it if someone like that finished 4th. As mentioned it is now all about finishing top 4 for the CL, and the top 6 teams have become complacent and think it their right that they and no one else finishes there. Maybe that is a little unfair, and that it is the pundits who push this.

[FloridaMarlin]

Just talking to a colleague concerning the demise of football, he is a Liverpool fan and sees it as everything is ok but to me the premiership has stifled competition and limited the scope smaller clubs can rise.

The false elevation of the bigger clubs due to the overseas market of selling shirts and tv rights as opposed to the domestic one has swayed the gap even further than it used to, what chance do we really ever have of being a middle club ever breaking into the higher echelons and too be honest is it worth it?

To go Worldwide is to sell your soul and be at the mercy of the markets for a club like us, people from China will move onto another club that is doing well and we will be left in the mire, my point is what is the point of us having to sell our soul on a gamble of us doing well?

Why dont the larger clubs leave for a European Super League and leave us to form a competitive domestic League, I am talking about Liverpool, Arsenal. United, City and Chelsea as they use us as a tool to further themselves in Europe and not as an English partner in the leagues.

 

If you can be a bit more bothered than I can to trawl through my previous posts, I've been saying for some time that this scenario is on the cards.

The Champions League is the first step and the next logical one for the world's top clubs is to do what you say above.

So the top four English/Spanish/German/Italian clubs, with a sprinkling of French, Portuguese and Russian clubs, all hive off with top clubs from South America, Asia (Japan/Saudi/Australia) and North America, and form a world league.

These clubs will jump ship when Murdoch and other big cable/satellite TV companies dangle huge wads of cash in front of them.

Fifa might try to stop them but they will effectively do what Kerry Packer did to the ICC years ago, flip them the middle digit and say; "Try and stop us, we've got the best players and people will watch our competition."

This, of course, will effectively spell the end of the World Cup, but in one fell swoop will sate Murdoch's desire for revenge on Fifa who refuse to pimp out the World Cup to PPV tv, preferring to sell the rights to terrestrial TV companies to give the World Cup to the widest possible audience.

Pie in the Sky? Nope.

Execs at the BBC were getting worried about this happening two years ago when the first whispers of it were flying around.

[Barry Sanchez]

If you can be a bit more bothered than I can to trawl through my previous posts, I've been saying for some time that this scenario is on the cards.

The Champions League is the first step and the next logical one for the world's top clubs is to do what you say above.

So the top four English/Spanish/German/Italian clubs, with a sprinkling of French, Portuguese and Russian clubs, all hive off with top clubs from South America, Asia (Japan/Saudi/Australia) and North America, and form a world league.

These clubs will jump ship when Murdoch and other big cable/satellite TV companies dangle huge wads of cash in front of them.

Fifa might try to stop them but they will effectively do what Kerry Packer did to the ICC years ago, flip them the middle digit and say; "Try and stop us, we've got the best players and people will watch our competition."

This, of course, will effectively spell the end of the World Cup, but in one fell swoop will sate Murdoch's desire for revenge on Fifa who refuse to pimp out the World Cup to PPV tv, preferring to sell the rights to terrestrial TV companies to give the World Cup to the widest possible audience.

Pie in the Sky? Nope.

Execs at the BBC were getting worried about this happening two years ago when the first whispers of it were flying around.

 

I would be happy with this but from a different angle, football would be destroying itself and we could start again.

[warsash saint]

Football died the day that Murdoch got his dirty finger prints on it!

[orchardsaint]

To me I get nostalgic about the First Division. But even then, the top 6 (as below) featured a lot of the same teams and of course was dominated by Liverpool. Were things any more level then than now? I guess you have to say that they were given the odd "smaller" team coming so high up, and indeed Villa winning it. But the team that shows the biggest change to today is Everton - a force in the 80s but currently have little or no chance of winning the league or even finishing top 4.

 

1980/1: Villa, Ipswich, Arsenal, WBA, Liverpool, Saints

1981/2: Liverpool, Ipswich, ManU, Spurs, Arsenal, Swansea

1982/3: Liverpool, Watford, ManU, Spurs, Forest, Villa

1983/4: Liverpool, Saints, Forest, ManU, QPR, Arsenal

1984/5: Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, ManU, Saints, Chelsea

1985/6: Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, ManU, Shef Wed, Chelsea

1986/7: Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Norwich, Wimbledon

1987/8: Liverpool, Manu, Forest, Everton, QPR, Arsenal

1988/9: Arsenal, Liverpool, Forest, Norwich, Derby, Spurs

1989/90: Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton

 

I don't really care who it is, whether it be us, West Ham, Swansea, Villa, etc etc but I would dearly love it if someone like that finished 4th. As mentioned it is now all about finishing top 4 for the CL, and the top 6 teams have become complacent and think it their right that they and no one else finishes there. Maybe that is a little unfair, and that it is the pundits who push this.

 

well it is about time the premier league got hold of my idea. read it, laugh if you want, but then read it again and you will realise it can only be a force for good, to level the playing field and get more competetive leagues.

 

the current play off system is old hat and needs to be changed. therefore i propose two varying alternatives. a final league table where the bottom eight, yes eight, teams go down. possibly ten. this will shake up the leagues a lot. three mid table finishes could see teams go from L2 to the prem, or vice versa. teams like everton, villa, spurs up till recently, have all been a bit cack, and need a kick up the @rse. we got it sure enough. a bad season from liverpool, for example, and they are relegated. tv money will be shared out amongst the teams more. yes certain teams will recieve a share year after year, but they do now anyway. and don't forget, it only takes one mediocre season!

 

the second is the play offs to include up to tenth bottom, bottom two automatically down with every one else playing each other - 11v18, 12v17, 13v16, 14v15 and the four losers, whoever they are go down, and the same coming up.

 

it's just an idea!

[Charlie Wayman]

The flaw in your argument is that without the top six clubs the football league would be meaningless and nobody would want to watch it. We must hope that they do not leave the league because it is only the promise of the David and Goliath fight that keeps the fans coming.

[Batman]

the OP is a fine one to talk

he expects the players to play at 9/10 every game. if all players did that, then the fun would be non existent

[FloridaMarlin]

I would be happy with this but from a different angle, football would be destroying itself and we could start again.

 

The problem is that the vast majority of money coming in to fund the game to its current levels comes from TV.

 

Of course, there have always been bigger fish, but in days of yore it was a more level playing field and clubs like Saints were able to compete with the bigger clubs by generating their own income and being resourceful.

 

In the days when clubs relied on the size of their crowds, those with bigger grounds were able to generate more income than the likes of Saints at The Dell, but because the gaps were not so big, Saints were still able to tilt at the big boys.

 

To an extent, clubs have become lazy and slapdash about raising their own income as they rely on TV income. Having said that, it would be be difficult for any club -even the likes of Man Utd - to raise enough money to meet the level of wage requirements for top players.

 

It's all very well to say if the big clubs go off, the rest can start again, but those big clubs will take all the TV money with them, and the rest will be left with scraps, a bit like the Football League when the Premier League waltzed off to take Murdoch's millions.

[adrian lord]

I had forgottten how Ipswich were high flyers in the early 80s. Seems incredible now. Totally unfshionable Ipswich, Saints and Watford runners up 4 seasons in a row.

[The9]

To me I get nostalgic about the First Division. But even then, the top 6 (as below) featured a lot of the same teams and of course was dominated by Liverpool. Were things any more level then than now? I guess you have to say that they were given the odd "smaller" team coming so high up, and indeed Villa winning it. But the team that shows the biggest change to today is Everton - a force in the 80s but currently have little or no chance of winning the league or even finishing top 4.

 

1980/1: Villa, Ipswich, Arsenal, WBA, Liverpool, Saints

1981/2: Liverpool, Ipswich, ManU, Spurs, Arsenal, Swansea

1982/3: Liverpool, Watford, ManU, Spurs, Forest, Villa

1983/4: Liverpool, Saints, Forest, ManU, QPR, Arsenal

1984/5: Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, ManU, Saints, Chelsea

1985/6: Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, ManU, Shef Wed, Chelsea

1986/7: Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Norwich, Wimbledon

1987/8: Liverpool, Manu, Forest, Everton, QPR, Arsenal

1988/9: Arsenal, Liverpool, Forest, Norwich, Derby, Spurs

1989/90: Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton

 

I don't really care who it is, whether it be us, West Ham, Swansea, Villa, etc etc but I would dearly love it if someone like that finished 4th. As mentioned it is now all about finishing top 4 for the CL, and the top 6 teams have become complacent and think it their right that they and no one else finishes there. Maybe that is a little unfair, and that it is the pundits who push this.

 

I've highlighted the teams who are very, very unlikely even to break the top 6 this season or the top 4 any time in the next 10 years from your list wihout £200m investment (and omitted Liverpool, though it would have been good for a cheap laugh). Compare that to the variety of "other" teams breaking the top 6 in the 80s, it's a massive shame that the positions are so locked down. I actually think getting rid of the winter transfer window might even it up a bit, teams get their 25 and stick with them and the U21s for the whole season - ok the top squads will be deeper and they're more likely to ride out injury crises, but at least you wouldn't lose any outstanding players halfway through the season if you're in the top 6 at Xmas...

[CWD]

I love being in the Prem. I love the increased media coverage and being able to talk about my club with other fans, and them having some knowledge of my team. I love being able to play the best teams every week. Hell I even love moaning about lawro's predictions every week because at least it shows we're being talked about!

 

However I do think much of this appreciation is down to the fact that we spent so long in the lower leagues. When I started at Uni and my housemates were all sat watching United, I was tuning into solent to listen to saints v Yeovil. I saw Saints play at places like Gillingham and get beat by Rochdale. I saw the rise of Rickie Lambert from the start, not just tuning in for the credits like the rest of the world.

 

In short I feel I've experienced real football, The heart and soul of the game, and I'd like to think that as a club we will always remember those wilderness year and maintain those values even if we do go on to better things.

[OldNick]

This season the league reminds me of the last couple of seasons when we were last in the PL,fear of losing and relegation. Funnily enough it was games against the likes of Bolton (guess the manager) that were sterile and boring. Turned me off the top league of football.

Too much money at stake for teams to play open football, add to that that the quality players now are picking PSG and Bayern etc rather than English football ,which in turn lessens our game

[alpine_saint]

I am rapidly losing interest in all levels of football.

 

My eldest son has just given up because of neanderthal "must win because they have small genitalia" / mobbing mentality amongst youth trainers where I live, and my 9 year old hasnt got a game so far this season because he is in a joint club team, the trainers come from the other club and play only their players, so he wonders why he should bother training, which gives them an additional excuse not to play him.

 

Add that on to Barry's comments, and its clear to me football is a sport for mongs and I am near the end.

 

As some of you may notice (delight in), I dont post too often anymore..

[St_Tel49]

Just talking to a colleague concerning the demise of football, he is a Liverpool fan and sees it as everything is ok but to me the premiership has stifled competition and limited the scope smaller clubs can rise.

The false elevation of the bigger clubs due to the overseas market of selling shirts and tv rights as opposed to the domestic one has swayed the gap even further than it used to, what chance do we really ever have of being a middle club ever breaking into the higher echelons and too be honest is it worth it?

To go Worldwide is to sell your soul and be at the mercy of the markets for a club like us, people from China will move onto another club that is doing well and we will be left in the mire, my point is what is the point of us having to sell our soul on a gamble of us doing well?

Why dont the larger clubs leave for a European Super League and leave us to form a competitive domestic League, I am talking about Liverpool, Arsenal. United, City and Chelsea as they use us as a tool to further themselves in Europe and not as an English partner in the leagues.

For the Man Us of this world the CL is the icing on the cake of domestic competition. Take away the cake and leave nothing but the icing and fans will soon get sick of the diet. If the big clubs left the Premier league I suspect that they will be hammering on the door to come back within a couple of years.

[St_Tel49]

The flaw in your argument is that without the top six clubs the football league would be meaningless and nobody would want to watch it. We must hope that they do not leave the league because it is only the promise of the David and Goliath fight that keeps the fans coming.

 

By that rationale no-one would be watching the Championship but, in fact, it is the second or third most watched league in Europe. There would still be lots of lovely advertising for TV to sell.

[influx]

I am rapidly losing interest in all levels of football.

 

My eldest son has just given up because of neanderthal "must win because they have small genitalia" / mobbing mentality amongst youth trainers where I live, and my 9 year old hasnt got a game so far this season because he is in a joint club team, the trainers come from the other club and play only their players, so he wonders why he should bother training, which gives them an additional excuse not to play him.

 

Add that on to Barry's comments, and its clear to me football is a sport for mongs and I am near the end.

 

As some of you may notice (delight in), I dont post too often anymore..

 

You post too often IMO.

 

I doubt you have ever taken any joy from football, so why start now. You say you are rapidly losing interest, but from reading your posts you only seem interested when there has been something to moan about. The reason you don't post as often is because you are finding it little harder to be so ****ing negative. Although, you still manage it on occasions. You depress me and I only read your witterings on here, god knows how your family cope.

[alpine_saint]

You post too often IMO.

 

I doubt you have ever taken any joy from football, so why start now. You say you are rapidly losing interest, but from reading your posts you only seem interested when there has been something to moan about. The reason you don't post as often is because you are finding it little harder to be so ****ing negative. Although, you still manage it on occasions. You depress me and I only read your witterings on here, god knows how your family cope.

 

So people are only interested if they are positive ? What a load of b*ll*cks. I would argue that negative people (as you describe them) are more interested because they wont simply suck up the sh*t performances and excuses, often on the back of a crap excuse that because you have spent several hundred pounds on an ST you have to appear a happy-clappy ÜberFan..

[Barry Sanchez]

So people are only interested if they are positive ? What a load of b*ll*cks. I would argue that negative people (as you describe them) are more interested because they wont simply suck up the sh*t performances and excuses, often on the back of a crap excuse that because you have spent several hundred pounds on an ST you have to appear a happy-clappy ÜberFan..

 

Very very true, most of the clappers/cultists are new fans.

[berkshiresaint]

Football at the highest levels e:g CL, Prem lge etc stopped being a sport years ago.

Now it is a sport based business, getting the best employees from around the world regardless of nationality & with no regard for the national teams of the countries they are based in. Teams like Moan U will always stear more towards what's good for business than what's good for their fans. So if these teams feel this way about their own fans then they will not give a moments thought to lower league teams. They really don't even care about teams in the Prem lge. All these teams care about is how much money they can make and from where. If a new European super cup competition was created guaranteeing the teams untold wealth then the CL would see teams like us & norwhich competing in it as the "bigger teams" would have all buggered off to chase the money.

[alpine_saint]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

 

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

 

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

[bangkoksaint]

I get some of the sentiment I really do and the argument of prem vs lower leagues is complicated, interesting and very personal. However, Lee Barnard joined us in League One from another League One club to prove himself but Lovren from a champions league club to a non champions league club didn't? Barnard was proving himself just as well at a different team - saints likely offered him more money and more chance of moving up the leagues in the team he was in - is that proving yourself or wanting the best for yourself like everyone does? Im not sure how you have judged how they care for us really - be interesting to understand this because in my opinion Lovren has a huge amount of passion and is keen to fit in in the city and the club - again maybe for selfish reasons but hard to know how hes any different? Did Fonte drop a league to prove himself? Did Lallana stay to prove himself or should he have gone to prove himself? Its a lot more complicated than being British and joining a club in a lower division!

 

You make a fair point there re Lovren and again you're correct in sayin it's complicated. The thing is though I've been supporting Saints for 40 years and watching them for probably 35. In that times homes, girlfriends, jobs etc have all come and gone but the one thing that has stayed has been SFC. I got the same joy from the difficult times more than I do now...........that's just a personal thing, for others it may be different and I accept that.

[Barry Sanchez]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

 

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

 

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

 

True again and what hope do we have of ever winning anything other than a cup if we get a good draw?

[bangkoksaint]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

 

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

 

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

 

This.

[DuncanRG]

You guys realise that you get promoted when you do well in lower leagues, right?

 

So like, if we were to return to the Championship, much to your delight, take the thing by the scruff of the neck and end up winning a trophy, we'd only end up back in the Premier League? What a cruel hand the league system deals us.

 

I'm happier now. This is the top league, I want the team to do as well as possible and I'd rather savour results than expect them.

Edited 20 September, 2013 by DuncanRG

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

 

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

 

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

 

Yet the hissyfits you threw everytime we lost a game, or that we were going to blow promotion.

 

You really are never happy are you?

 

I also really hated the wins against City, Liverpool & Chelsea. It made me long for the days of being beaten by Rochdale at home.

Edited 20 September, 2013 by KelvinsRightGlove

[Kingsbridge Saint]

I find the style of football in the Prem to be really poor. There isn't the excitement that there used to be and games often reach half time at 0-0. Maybe with all the money at stake teams are less likely to throw caution to the wind.

 

The coaching obsession with keeping the ball and going sideways and backwards is killing the game. Not enough pace, width, or players taking each other on. When a superior side also decides to shut up shop the games often become unwatchable - like the second half of Spurs v Tromso. Spurs were a complete disgrace to the paying fans in that second half.

 

That's what is killing the game.

[angelman]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

 

 

Yes and no.

 

There might be a flaw in your argument as I do wonder whether you might think differently if we hadn't have been winning? You mention 2 years ago, which I am presuming means the promotion season from L1 and nPC. They were enjoyable for sure, as we were winning. Did you enjoy the journey down to the bottom of L1 as much?

 

But it does raise the interesting conundrum. Being realistic, we have absolutely no chancel of winning the PL - that might be being negative, but it is realism. Is there really any point in joining a competition that you have absolutely no chance of winning? That we have never won it isn't really the point, as the '80s showed that we could get quite close as could other similar sized teams. Today we can't even get close. But what is the point in being in the 2nd or 3rd tier? You may say that we would be more competitive, which is true, but the point of the competition is to try and win it and you can't do that unless you are in the top division. As about 86 of the 92 league clubs have absolutely no chance whatsoever of winning the league, it shows that the competition itself is somewhat flawed, well at least to my thinking it is. I suspect that you ask the money men and supporters of the other 6, and they will disagree.

[The Kraken]

Yes and no.

There might be a flaw in your argument as I do wonder whether you might think differently if we hadn't have been winning? You mention 2 years ago, which I am presuming means the promotion season from L1 and nPC. They were enjoyable for sure, as we were winning. Did you enjoy the journey down to the bottom of L1 as much?

 

But it does raise the interesting conundrum. Being realistic, we have absolutely no chancel of winning the PL - that might be being negative, but it is realism. Is there really any point in joining a competition that you have absolutely no chance of winning? That we have never won it isn't really the point, as the '80s showed that we could get quite close as could other similar sized teams. Today we can't even get close. But what is the point in being in the 2nd or 3rd tier? You may say that we would be more competitive, which is true, but the point of the competition is to try and win it and you can't do that unless you are in the top division. As about 86 of the 92 league clubs have absolutely no chance whatsoever of winning the league, it shows that the competition itself is somewhat flawed, well at least to my thinking it is. I suspect that you ask the money men and supporters of the other 6, and they will disagree.

 

Why is it an "argument" to suggest that some people think differently to others? There's no correct answer to what Alpine asks, just contrasting opinions.

 

Being in the top division is a good thing, being able to attract decent players is great, and toppling the best sides in England (and Europe tbf) is a wonderful feeling. That said, I still look back extremely fondly on our days in the Championship. Even the season after the playoffs when we really struggled; staying up against Sheff Utd on the final day remains my favourite day ever at St. Mary's.

 

The natural, popular answer on here is that the PL is the be all and end all. Fair enough, its a sensible supposition. But equally there does exist a minority (of which I'm in) who can enjoy the spoils of the top league but actually preferred it more in the Championship.

[The9]

Why don't people understand that "argument" is a synonym for a debating position, not necessarily a fight ?

[The Kraken]

Why don't people understand that "argument" is a synonym for a debating position, not necessarily a fight ?

 

Its not even a debate though, is it? Alpine wondered "how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago." That's not a debate; that's just asking if there are some that feel that way. Clearly Alpine does, and I'd say I do, plus a few others I've seen express the same sentiments. There's no argument or debate whatsoever to be had; you either prefer football then, or you don't.

 

[angelman]

ar·gu·ment [ahr-gyuh-muhnt] Show IPA

noun

1. an oral disagreement; verbal opposition; contention; altercation: a violent argument.

2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

[melmacian_saint]

I get what you mean, but I somehow think Saints are off the radar for such loss of enchantment.

We may become a bit of an Everton, who knows maybe a Tottenham, but I think (and quite happily so) that like them we are doomed to generational success rather than constant top finishes.

 

If we want this to change, then we might as well start looking for an Arab/Russian oligarch to wash his big dirty money down here and in this case we better pray we got the good one out of 100 (very unlikely).

[The Kraken]

ar·gu·ment [ahr-gyuh-muhnt] Show IPA

noun

1. an oral disagreement; verbal opposition; contention; altercation: a violent argument.

2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

 

Thanks bud. Now I realise its an argument simply to present one's point of view.

 

"I'd argue that a bacon sandwich is my favourite breakfast." I'd argue it definitely is.

 

Every day is a school day. Lovely.

[Chez]

I don't really care who it is, whether it be us, West Ham, Swansea, Villa, etc etc but I would dearly love it if someone like that finished 4th. As mentioned it is now all about finishing top 4 for the CL, and the top 6 teams have become complacent and think it their right that they and no one else finishes there. Maybe that is a little unfair, and that it is the pundits who push this.

 

 

Wouldn't it be great if several of the big 4 or 5 had bad seasons and we ended up with a couple of new teams filling the top slots?

[Chez]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

 

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

 

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

 

It's difficult to know what might have happened if we hadn't got successive promotions, but we'd of lost the likes of Morgan, Lallana and Shaw for sure and perhaps instead of moaning about under-performing multi million pound signings there would be moans about under-performing million pound players or maybe lack of spending altogether.

 

There is no use getting all nostalgic about Championship football. It was great when we were winning, but when we were woeful I often had whole rows of seats to choose from.

 

 

If it was still £20 a ticket then I'd be as happy, but paying £40+ a pop for a ticket really takes the shine off being in the top flight. Beating the big clubs last season was great, but overall I found the top flight far less exciting than the Championship. Overall though football is losing its attraction as every years passes for me. Over the years I have I loved going to the away games especially, but the cost is getting stupid. To be honest going to new grounds and hopefully at some point witnessing a once in a lifetime come back from 3-0 down to win 4-3 is all that interests me.

[Whitey Grandad]

I wonder how many of us are really, really deep-down happier than at this time 2 years ago.

 

The games and opposition were more interesting then; we only want to win and avoid relegation now for financial reasons.

 

We were competitive then, in with a shout for things. We've spent 60m on underachieving crap since then. (OK, 50m - Lovren is an exception)

 

Back then we had hope and expectation. Now we have realisation.

 

Oh, and we haven't actually underachieved yet - that'll be at the end of the season.