Immigrants: 10yr wait for Benefits & Housing!

[bridge too far]

Did you get your information from that leading light of journalism The Sun/NOTW/Daily Star/Express/Daily Mail?

 

Yes he did. However, it has been proved to him that this article was based on myth and lies. He chooses to ignore that.

[Jillyanne]

Anyway.................. soon be christmas.

[Saintandy666]

If someone is here legitimately, and is actually contributing to the economy, I see no reason why they should not be treated exactly like everyone else. It just makes sense. I think some people forget how much immigrants contribute to the country as a whole.

[Weston Super Saint]

If someone is here legitimately, and is actually contributing to the economy, I see no reason why they should not be treated exactly like everyone else. It just makes sense. I think some people forget how much immigrants contribute to the country as a whole.

 

What do you mean by contributing to the economy?

 

Eg Would 'shopping' / spending money on goods and services count?

[Saintandy666]

What do you mean by contributing to the economy?

 

Eg Would 'shopping' / spending money on goods and services count?

 

Well, yer, obviously... but I was more talking about working...

[Thedelldays]

Did you get your information from that leading light of journalism The Sun/NOTW/Daily Star/Express/Daily Mail?

 

 

it is on the BBC....is that good enough for you..?

[Ponty]

it is on the BBC....is that good enough for you..?

 

I'm not trying to say something but remember this; ITV had the first non-white newsreader...

[Thedelldays]

I'm not trying to say something but remember this; ITV had the first non-white newsreader...

what the hell has that got to do with anything..

 

unless of course..you are claiming the world famous, world renowned BBC is a racist organisation or even one to stir up racial tension..and te bbc is infact up there with the mail/sun/bnp..?

 

that is very very unlikely.....right?

 

unless of course, you were on about something else..

[Ponty]

what the hell has that got to do with anything..

 

unless of course..you are claiming the world famous, world renowned BBC is a racist organisation or even one to stir up racial tension..and te bbc is infact up there with the mail/sun/bnp..?

 

that is very very unlikely.....right?

 

unless of course, you were on about something else..

 

Nah, I was being tongue-in-cheek. Of course the Beeb doesn't incite racial tension ffs.

 

I think it's the dumbing down of the media in genral that has led to a lot of the ignorance in society. It's ironic that the more accessible "news" has become, the lower the quality that has been maintained. Given all of the facts, most people would probably reach identical conclusions on very many issues.

[saint_stevo]

Ponty you have been involved in some heavy stuff over ere in the lounge of late....

 

 

stick to TMS?!

[Robsk II]

Going back to one of my oft-made points - that far too many people put no thought into their thinking. I find this profoundly disturbing, particularly when the person concerned doesn't actually seem to be mentally retarded, at face value.

[Thedelldays]

Nah, I was being tongue-in-cheek. Of course the Beeb doesn't incite racial tension ffs.

 

I think it's the dumbing down of the media in genral that has led to a lot of the ignorance in society. It's ironic that the more accessible "news" has become, the lower the quality that has been maintained. Given all of the facts, most people would probably reach identical conclusions on very many issues.

 

dumbing down media.....not really...you cant say that when it is on the BBC ffs....THE BBC!!!!!

 

if it was in the daily star i would grant you but not this time...

 

not so long ago, the bbc was being heavily defended on here as a world class, world respected organisation...so...............

[Thedelldays]

Going back to one of my oft-made points - that far too many people put no thought into their thinking. I find this profoundly disturbing, particularly when the person concerned doesn't actually seem to be mentally retarded, at face value.

i find your arrogance disturbing...i really do...

[saint_stevo]

Immigrants should have wait longer than British nationalists for everything.

[Ponty]

dumbing down media.....not really...you cant say that when it is on the BBC ffs....THE BBC!!!!!

 

if it was in the daily star i would grant you but not this time...

 

not so long ago, the bbc was being heavily defended on here as a world class, world respected organisation...so...............

 

TDD, ask yourself, has the venerated BBC never misquoted someone? Never had to retract a story? Never issued an apology for a misleading broadcast? Are all of its media types above making a mistake? The truth is, in many cases their stories are sourced from the same places that othe 'less-worthy' broadcasters/newspapers get their information and they're not always above reproach.

 

Yes, I'm sure this story is factual but I was speaking quite broadly. It's too easy to claim something is 100% true because "the BBC said so!"

[Ponty]

Immigrants should have wait longer than British nationalists for everything.

 

On what grounds? Should an employed 'immigrant' have to wait longer for NHS treatment than a benefit sponging Brit, of which there are plenty? You're going to have to put that into some sort of context because it looks like you're just discriminating on racial grounds otherwise.

[Thedelldays]

TDD, ask yourself, has the venerated BBC never misquoted someone? Never had to retract a story? Never issued an apology for a misleading broadcast? Are all of its media types above making a mistake? The truth is, in many cases their stories are sourced from the same places that othe 'less-worthy' broadcasters/newspapers get their information and they're not always above reproach.

 

Yes, I'm sure this story is factual but I was speaking quite broadly. It's too easy to claim something is 100% true because "the BBC said so!"

 

 

of course....but the smug oes on here who are right all the time and think those who disagree are thick etc are the first to claim the stories like this are exaggerated by the mail etc...but this time it was not...unless they are going to say the BBC is nothing but rabid right reporting...?

[Thedelldays]

On what grounds? Should an employed 'immigrant' have to wait longer for NHS treatment than a benefit sponging Brit, of which there are plenty? You're going to have to put that into some sort of context because it looks like you're just discriminating on racial grounds otherwise.

 

how about a working immigrant and a working british person..?

 

how about a benefit claiming immigrant and a benefit claiming british person who more than likely has contributed to the NHS at some point in their lives..?

[Robsk II]

Why, Delldays? It's not arrogance to find lazy retarded thinking amonsgt so many people disturbing. You cannot deny that loads of people come on here spouting crazy extreme views about things they later are proven to have no idea about. That's a f*cking FACT, no less. F*cking idiot plebs just believe whatever they want to believe, almost totally regardless of the actual facts. Not the opinions, but the facts. Believe whatever they want because it gives them someone to blame for their problems, as that's easier than just accepting them, or taking any responsibility, or getting off their stupid c*nt inbred arses and doing something about it. The number of times I give both sides to an argument and yet am still labelled a crazy, etc, is a perfect example. People choose to ignore the fact the my values and views are based on something other than mindless hate or turgid tabloid trumpetting, as this makes it easier to label me some kind of rabid communist. Half of the people here call people things like that and it again becomes clear that they don't even know what that means! In my opinion, I'm more than entitled to pontificate to most of the morons who give retarded uninformed opinions, because I do believe my opinions to be more soundly based as a rule. If that's arrogant, then I'm arrogant, fine.

 

I'd bet you a pound to a penny that if you gathered the star reading idiots and the alleged pinko lefties together, the latter would be considered more intelligent, more informed, and have a more in depth knowledge of pretty much any given general subject.

[Ponty]

of course....but the smug oes on here who are right all the time and think those who disagree are thick etc are the first to claim the stories like this are exaggerated by the mail etc...but this time it was not...unless they are going to say the BBC is nothing but rabid right reporting...?

 

I do see your point there and it's a fair one.

[Thedelldays]

Why, Delldays? It's not arrogance to find lazy retarded thinking amonsgt so many people disturbing. You cannot deny that loads of people come on here spouting crazy extreme views about things they later are proven to have no idea about. That's a f*cking FACT, no less. F*cking idiot plebs just believe whatever they want to believe, almost totally regardless of the actual facts. Not the opinions, but the facts. Believe whatever they want because it gives them someone to blame for their problems, as that's easier than just accepting them, or taking any responsibility, or getting off their stupid c*nt inbred arses and doing something about it. The number of times I give both sides to an argument and yet am still labelled a crazy, etc, is a perfect example. People choose to ignore the fact the my values and views are based on something other than mindless hate or turgid tabloid trumpetting, as this makes it easier to label me some kind of rabid communist. Half of the people here call people things like that and it again becomes clear that they don't even know what that means! In my opinion, I'm more than entitled to pontificate to most of the morons who give retarded uninformed opinions, because I do believe my opinions to be more soundly based as a rule. If that's arrogant, then I'm arrogant, fine.

 

I'd bet you a pound to a penny that if you gathered the star reading idiots and the alleged pinko lefties together, the latter would be considered more intelligent, more informed, and have a more in depth knowledge of pretty much any given general subject.

 

and you dont believe what you read..you believe all the time..people believe what they want due to their life experiences...you fail to acknowledge someone elses opinion if it differs from yours..you really do..which is a shame..

 

you dont tend to add much apart from calling people retards, thickos and illinformed..when in fact, you have no idea about them, who they are and what they do...

[Robsk II]

the smug oes on here who are right all the time and think those who disagree are thick etc are the first to claim the stories like this are exaggerated by the mail etc.

 

The difference is that these 'smug ones' will modify their view accordingly, not hold on to their views regardless of facts. Also, many of the disagreements, and the conversations that take place after, do seem to indicate that there are a lot of thick people amongst those who hold certain types of view. Once more, I would point out that this is based on observation and analysis rather than mindless labelling.

[Thedelldays]

I do see your point there and it's a fair one.

 

 

you only have to look at Robsk latest contribution to see that point..

[saint_stevo]

On what grounds? Should an employed 'immigrant' have to wait longer for NHS treatment than a benefit sponging Brit, of which there are plenty? You're going to have to put that into some sort of context because it looks like you're just discriminating on racial grounds otherwise.

 

Ok maybe looking back it seems a horrific generalisation, its just stories of people waiting x amount of years for a house etc and then you hear of an immigrant coming over, claiming benefits and getting straight onto the ladder.

 

Charity begins at home and all.

 

I have no argument against sponging brits, but i believe British nationalists should get preferential treatment over immigrants, however wrong a belief that may be

[Thedelldays]

The difference is that these 'smug ones' will modify their view accordingly, not hold on to their views regardless of facts. Also, many of the disagreements, and the conversations that take place after, do seem to indicate that there are a lot of thick people amongst those who hold certain types of view. Once more, I would point out that this is based on observation and analysis rather than mindless labelling.

 

 

how do you know others dont modify their view...why do they have to??

just because you do..?

 

people make their jdgements from what they read..no matter what source and decide what is true/accurate..add that to their life experience and what they see on the street and form an opinion...shame you fail to acknowldge that....and just brand some as thickos and retards

[Robsk II]

and you dont believe what you read..you believe all the time..people believe what they want due to their life experiences...you fail to acknowledge someone elses opinion if it differs from yours..you really do..which is a shame..

 

you dont tend to add much apart from calling people retards, thickos and illinformed..when in fact, you have no idea about them, who they are and what they do...

 

I seek to form my opinions on an objective as well as a subjective level. Simply that. So **** someone elses view if they can't be bothered to do the same. If I met a black person who punched me, I would be a fool to say black people are all violent, but some of what foes on here is little short of that. If I call people stupid at times, it pales into comparison when against things like wishing cancer on people, saying no-one cares if immigrants die etc - both of those things have een said TODAY.

 

I don't care about what people do or anything else. this is because I judge people based on who they are, not what they are - another fundamental ethos of mine. I'm also pretty realistic, and am aware I have some stigmas as well. But actually, I will revise mine, whereas many of you lot don't. I also do acknowledge and will readily discuss other views. Mine are very strongly held, i accept, but if someone genuinely gives me some information that would cause a change in my views, then change they would. it just so happens that few people, certainly on this board, possess the ability to do that.

[Thedelldays]

I seek to form my opinions on an objective as well as a subjective level. Simply that. So **** someone elses view if they can't be bothered to do the same. If I met a black person who punched me, I would be a fool to say black people are all violent, but some of what foes on here is little short of that. If I call people stupid at times, it pales into comparison when against things like wishing cancer on people, saying no-one cares if immigrants die etc - both of those things have een said TODAY.

 

I don't care about what people do or anything else. this is because I judge people based on who they are, not what they are - another fundamental ethos of mine. I'm also pretty realistic, and am aware I have some stigmas as well. But actually, I will revise mine, whereas many of you lot don't. I also do acknowledge and will readily discuss other views. Mine are very strongly held, i accept, but if someone genuinely gives me some information that would cause a change in my views, then change they would. it just so happens that few people, certainly on this board, possess the ability to do that.

 

you dont know that others have not done the same..not everyone is you and had your experiences......are people allowed to actually form an opinion different from yours...? really without being told they are not objective enough or intelligent enough..?

[Robsk II]

To be honest, I suppose I feel that if someone truly was objective - and I see the objective as being inherently superior to the subjective, and something that we should all TRY to base our views and values on - then most people would have views I don't find abhorrent. Of course people are allowed different opinions. I have no problem admitting that I often believe their views to be simply wrong, though. otherwise, i'd have those views as well, surely? I MUST believe in my views in order to hold them, and I also believe that generally means rejecting thos of others unless they are in-line or compelling enough to affect a change in my own.

[Ponty]

Ok maybe looking back it seems a horrific generalisation, its just stories of people waiting x amount of years for a house etc and then you hear of an immigrant coming over, claiming benefits and getting straight onto the ladder.

 

Charity begins at home and all.

 

I have no argument against sponging brits, but i believe British nationalists should get preferential treatment over immigrants, however wrong a belief that may be

The thing is, who are these people waiting years for a house? Most immigrants will not be housed immediately, instead they will spend time in a hostel until accomodation is found. This is exactly the same practice afforded to Nationals. A British family will be housed before a (for example) single European male, although a European family would almost certainly be housed before a single British male. This is largely due to the impracticality of families living in hostels or shared accomodation. The welfare system of housing is available to everybody in the country, if they're prepared to g o through the proper channels. There's actually no need to live on the streets in the UK.

 

The benefits system has, up until these reforms come in, worked the same for everyone; you work and you get tax credits (should your income be low enough), you don't work through unemployment and you get JSA and income support (level depending on size of family) and if you don't work through incapacity you get a disability allowance and income support (again based on dependents). The new system will see disparity in the system for the first time. Up until now the only reason you'd believe that immigrants get actual, real preferential treatment is because it makes better newspaper stories.

[Thedelldays]

To be honest, I suppose I feel that if someone truly was objective - and I see the objective as being inherently superior to the subjective, and something that we should all TRY to base our views and values on - then most people would have views I don't find abhorrent. Of course people are allowed different opinions. I have no problem admitting that I often believe their views to be simply wrong, though. otherwise, i'd have those views as well, surely? I MUST believe in my views in order to hold them, and I also believe that generally means rejecting thos of others unless they are in-line or compelling enough to affect a change in my own.

 

of course you have your views..which is what it is all about...but just dismissing as you do other views that are different from your own as retarded and thick and then claim YOU are being objective is rather....odd if I say so....

 

hey ho..

[Robsk II]

If you actually read my posts properly, TDD, you'll see it's not quite as simple as you put it. I only view those opinions as stupid etc because they themselves are so far from being objective. I mean - I am not going to bother considering views that I already know sit so far outside of objectivity, because they won't contribute anything to it. if you give me genuine, hard facts, I will factor them in and consider them, but that also means looking at counter arguments and so on. That's why, when someone brings up one example of a stupid immigration case, I will usually argue against it - not to say that it isn't true, but instead that it is not a reflection of the whole issue. That's why I call it lazy thinking, because some people do genuinely base extreme views on one or two hyped up examples. I don't understand why you can't see that simply isn't much of an opinion worth having.

[Weston Super Saint]

The difference is that these 'smug ones' will modify their view accordingly,

 

I seek to form my opinions on an objective as well as a subjective level.

 

LOL.

 

So if everyone else has a change of heart, decides to change their opinion on something they're a f::cking retard.

 

When Robsk does it, he's the f::cking intelligentsia!!

 

Robsk in I'm much cleverer than you shocker!

[Weston Super Saint]

If you actually read my posts properly, TDD, you'll see it's not quite as simple as you put it. I only view those opinions as stupid etc because they themselves are so far from being objective. I mean - I am not going to bother considering views that I already know sit so far outside of objectivity, because they won't contribute anything to it. if you give me genuine, hard facts, I will factor them in and consider them, but that also means looking at counter arguments and so on. That's why, when someone brings up one example of a stupid immigration case, I will usually argue against it - not to say that it isn't true, but instead that it is not a reflection of the whole issue. That's why I call it lazy thinking, because some people do genuinely base extreme views on one or two hyped up examples. I don't understand why you can't see that simply isn't much of an opinion worth having.

 

So, everyone else should supply you with cold hard facts, but they should unequivocally accept your opinion on things.

 

And you're not arrogant

[Robsk II]

Ah, well done for contributing. Also, where did I say changing opinions made you an idiot? You're making things up, as usual. I'd say people should always seek to be flexible in their opinions- if the facts dictate that.

[saint_stevo]

WSS, not really covering yourself with glory of late eh.

[Thedelldays]

If you actually read my posts properly, TDD, you'll see it's not quite as simple as you put it. I only view those opinions as stupid etc because they themselves are so far from being objective. I mean - I am not going to bother considering views that I already know sit so far outside of objectivity, because they won't contribute anything to it. if you give me genuine, hard facts, I will factor them in and consider them, but that also means looking at counter arguments and so on. That's why, when someone brings up one example of a stupid immigration case, I will usually argue against it - not to say that it isn't true, but instead that it is not a reflection of the whole issue. That's why I call it lazy thinking, because some people do genuinely base extreme views on one or two hyped up examples. I don't understand why you can't see that simply isn't much of an opinion worth having.

 

 

so, an extreme view is think that the government local or national paying £12k a month for a immigrant family to live in london is wrong...?

 

we are just debating what the story says....nothing more

 

dont think that is extreme at all...then again that is MY opinion...does that make me a spastic..?

[Robsk II]

When did I say people should accept my opinions? You can tell me to shove them up my arse for all I care. I value my opinion, doesn't mean you have to. Again, just speaking drivel.

 

And you're not arrogant

 

More brilliant reading skills and selective hearing. Great work.

 

If that's arrogant, then I'm arrogant, fine.

[Weston Super Saint]

When did I say people should accept my opinions? You can tell me to shove them up my arse for all I care. I value my opinion, doesn't mean you have to. Again, just speaking drivel.

 

LOL.

 

So you don't call people retarded then when they don't agree with you?

[Robsk II]

so, an extreme view is think that the government local or national paying £12k a month for a immigrant family to live in london is wrong...?

 

we are just debating what the story says....nothing more

 

dont think that is extreme at all...then again that is MY opinion...does that make me a spastic..?

 

TDD, for god's sake, i have said already that actually I am not in too much disagreement. It's ridiculous, why do you think (assume) I support crazy individual cases like this? I don't really blame the woman, but it's entirely clear something has gone wrong at local government level and possibly with policy higher up. Certainly with how it's been implemented in this case. If you did bother to read all of my posts, not just certain lines, you would realise I'm not quite as extreme leftist without reason as you think. I do consider myself to be left of centre, but only because everything I know etc leads me there. I don;t believe what i believe BECAUSE i want to be left of centre. I'm a pragmatist above all else.

[Ponty]

so, an extreme view is think that the government local or national paying £12k a month for a immigrant family to live in london is wrong...?

 

we are just debating what the story says....nothing more

 

dont think that is extreme at all...then again that is MY opinion...does that make me a spastic..?

 

With regards to that little gem, do you remember the story about the British family with about 10 kids who get hundreds of thousands in housing and benefits? So much that the father couldn't afford to go and get a job because he could never hope to earn anywhere near the amount.

Our taxes are not all p*ssed away on immigrants TDD.

[Robsk II]

Seriously WSS, you're bringing nothing of value to this, at all. I'm not going to bother to respond to your strangely selective replies.

[saint_stevo]

With regards to that little gem, do you remember the story about the British family with about 10 kids who get hundreds of thousands in housing and benefits? So much that the father couldn't afford to go and get a job because he could never hope to earn anywhere near the amount.

Our taxes are not all p*ssed away on immigrants TDD.

 

Not sure he ever said that, thing is it irks us english more to see foreigners abusing the system when we all see and hear of people more worthy going without

[Thedelldays]

TDD, for god's sake, i have said already that actually I am not in too much disagreement. It's ridiculous, why do you think (assume) I support crazy individual cases like this? I don't really blame the woman, but it's entirely clear something has gone wrong at local government level and possibly with policy higher up. Certainly with how it's been implemented in this case. If you did bother to read all of my posts, not just certain lines, you would realise I'm not quite as extreme leftist without reason as you think. I do consider myself to be left of centre, but only because everything I know etc leads me there. I don;t believe what i believe BECAUSE i want to be left of centre. I'm a pragmatist above all else.

 

so if you are in agreement...why the retard and thico comments..??

 

.i apologise if i have the wrong end of the stick here...

 

i dont consider myself to be anything..i just say what i feel...sometimes that takes me to the traditional right on things like immigration and sometimes it takes me the other way when it come to the recently announced ban on displaying of tobacco

[Robsk II]

It ****es me off when anyone, no matter what their ethnicity or nationality, religion, etc, abuses the welfare state etc. Simple. including immigrants who have no intention of working. I just contend that there aren't as many as some people seem to feel there are.

[Ponty]

How mental is that btw, the displaying of tobacco products law I mean?

[Thedelldays]

With regards to that little gem, do you remember the story about the British family with about 10 kids who get hundreds of thousands in housing and benefits? So much that the father couldn't afford to go and get a job because he could never hope to earn anywhere near the amount.

Our taxes are not all p*ssed away on immigrants TDD.

 

 

thing is..it is all wrong...but if we HAVE to spunk money (which we tend to do in this country) I would rather it went to a family that would have contributed in some form in the past in some way...

 

either way it is wrong...dont think anyone is denying that

[Robsk II]

In short, TDD - I say those things when comments are just way out there without basis. When someone can apply rationality to something, remove it from the realms of hatred and so on, then I respect their view a whole lot more, even if it isn't in line with my own.

 

Also, I'm not that dissimilar. I don't always come down on the left.

 

It might surprise you to know that I don't support unlimited immigration. I don't support total pacifism regardless of the circumstances. I'm often split - ideally, I think people should have a right to as many kids etc as they want, but in practice, I go much firther to the right. Sometimes I wish people had to get a sodding license before they could have kids, for example... etc.

[Weston Super Saint]

WSS, not really covering yourself with glory of late eh.

 

Oh noes, some randoms on the innernet don't entirely agree with some of my ideals / principles / thoughts.

 

Good job I'm not the sensitive type

[Saint Bones]

Wow - Your Immigrants fly into the country. That's Style

 

Most of ours come in rickety boats.

 

[Dicko]

Asylum seekers are the bane of all countries

 

'Please help me England, I'm being picked on'

 

Pathetic excuses for human beings

Go back and fight you snivelly weasels