Scottish Independance

[Viking Warrior]

Well Its started

 

Wall to wall coverage on the referendum for scotish independence

 

Yep a year today the referendum will take place

BBC scotland reported no other news this morning , instead the MSP's are giving it loads of speel

but there is no substance re fiscal policies, defence , banking etc

 

Instead we get the scottish SNP member gobbing off that Scotland will be sending an independant scottish team to the next Olympic games in Rio

 

Another SNP MSP one has vowed to keep the Royal Mail intact when they win the yes vote. talk of being contradictory

 

And another one has stated that the UK will stilll remain part of the the permanent 5 year memebers when scotland get their independance

 

An academic think tank has claimed that a separate currency would be the "prudent option" for an independent Scotland.

This comes days after another think tank made up of Salmonds cronies said something similar

 

For all those financial gurus, what will happen to the mortgages people in scotland have taken out from other financila institutions south of the border

 

And Final there will be news block out for the next year unless it it relates specifically to the Scottish Referendum Debate

[badgerx16]

Alex Salmond is only interested in one thing; as with all other politicos it's himself.

[alpine_saint]

Forget it. Even the Sweaties are not stupid enough to vote for national suicide.

 

They'll have no currency, no NATO membership, no EU membership, lose the Barnet formula and will prop the country up on dwindling oil stocks.

 

I reckon even Salmond reckons it b*ll*cks; he's just playing hard ball for more money and more autonomy within the current set-up.

[CB Saint]

Would love to see a reasoned considered debate on this subject with all of the facts clearly laid out with no bias. However the debaters are the polictians and the news will be conveyed to us by the journos, so no chance of that.

 

In my mind they are in or out. Completely, entirely and with finality. No retaining currency or defence or anything else. Can you imagine the wrangles over budgets for defence and the like. The UK decide they need another £5bn for the arned forces and the Scots refusing to pay up, or using it as leverage to get something else.

[Barry Sanchez]

I would hate to see them go but its democratic and fair they have the right to decide their own future, England/Wales and Northern Ireland should get one as well, we also could save money and have a European vote at the same time.

[Tokyo-Saint]

****ing hell! For only the 2nd time ever, I agree with Barry. Mark this day down Baz, this comes around less often than you change your socks.

[Barry Sanchez]

****ing hell! For only the 2nd time ever, I agree with Barry. Mark this day down Baz, this comes around less often than you change your socks.

 

I still dont agree with you though so its only once for me.

[Tokyo-Saint]

You mean you disagree with what you originally said and I agreed with, meaning you now disagree with both me and yourself?

 

Lucky you don't get to vote on this issue Barry. You'd only spoil the ballot paper disagreeing with yourself.

[Barry Sanchez]

I have only agreed with you once not twice.

[trousers]

The referendum is asking the wrong question. The question is "Should Scotland be an independent country?" but it's not complete independence that is on offer.

 

And why is it only the Scots that are being asked whether they want to break up the UK or not? Surely the rest of the UK should have a say too?

[Barry Sanchez]

Scottish independence will only come if the English vote for it.

[alpine_saint]

Would like to see the English get a referendum about separating from the rest.

[trousers]

Would like to see the English get a referendum about separating from the rest.

 

I'd prefer a more inclusive referendum asking EVERYONE in the UK the same question: "Do you want to break up the United Kingdom?"

[Patrick Bateman]

Here is my extremely erudite view on the subject; F**k them. I would love England and Wales to be independent from the UK.

[Viking Warrior]

Trousers

 

salmond wants total independance , his own army etc etc etc He stated that on numerous occassions

 

In many ways I hope he gets it, becuase the people of scotland will be well and truely shafted including me.

 

I beleive Scotland has a massive black hole in its finances. How the hell can scotland afford to have free prescriptions for all. Who is paying for this massive bill

 

Hes not put up taxes etc.

 

I wrote to him and his side kick Spurgeon and swinney about this . I never recieved a reply

[Barry Sanchez]

Here is my extremely erudite view on the subject; F**k them. I would love England and Wales to be independent from the UK.

 

You simply could put England.

[Patrick Bateman]

Nah, I like Wales - great country, cracking people!

[trousers]

Trousers

 

salmond wants total independance , his own army etc etc etc He stated that on numerous occassions

 

I don't doubt that's their long term aim, but it's not what is on offer in the short term. I guess they "get away" with asking the question in the way they have as there's no timescale attached to it. Retaining sterling and dependence on the Bank of England, along with sticking with the UK welfare and pension systems and the retention of the Queen of head of state isn't exactly what I'd call "independent".

 

Also, what happens if/when the next Scottish government voted for in 2016 is Labour, who are against breaking away?

[trousers]

http://petewishart.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/a-country-of-our-own/

 

There’s just one year to go to the referendum and now is the time to up the passion and shout out about what we are hoping to achieve.What we want is a country of our own. One run by Scots, for Scots and always in our interest. A nation with a Government we always vote for delivering the priorities we always choose.

We will run an independent Scotland better because we care more about Scotland. We, of course, care more about Scotland than the Westminster Tories and with independence we will never again have a Tory Government without our democratic consent. No more picking on our vulnerable and imposing years of austerity against our wishes. No more bedroom tax or Labour’s illegal wars and no more of Labour/Tory weapons of mass destruction defiling our beautiful country.

We know what independence is not about. We will keep the pound, the monarchy and retain our bilateral relationships. We will ease pretty seamlessly into our new independent status and the day after we secure our country for ourselves, our lives will be pretty much the same as the day before.

What will change is that all of this will be ours. Our nation will belong to us for the first time in over 300 years and nothing can be more exciting and transformative than that. We can change what we want and if things aren’t working, we can do things differently. It’s all in our own hands – with independence we are the masters of our own destiny. As the UK pulls in the direction of an alien and anti-Scottish UKIP agenda, we will make our own course, reflecting our own sense of community and our own values.

More than that, we will regain our national self respect and dignity. Scotland can stand tall in the world knowing that we are responsible for ourselves with no one else to blame for any mistakes we may make. We will be joining the world as an equal partner and we have a massive contribution to make. We are the Scotland that invented so much of the modern world and we will be an independent Scotland that has so much more to offer the world as a new independent and equal partner.

Our relationship with the rest of the UK will be improved. Our 300 years of British partnership is an important and crucial part of our Scots story and that will continue to inform us as we write our own new chapter. We will enjoy our British partnership as an equal partner and we will bring a new energy to that relationship.

This is our only chance. We may never again get this opportunity again. Let’s raise the passion. Let’s get excited. Let’s talk about the huge opportunities. A country of our own. The people of Scotland responsible for ourselves.

[Barry Sanchez]

Nah, I like Wales - great country, cracking people!

 

I speak as I find but thats hardly a formula for the status quo is it? Have you been to Wrexham, Rhyl and Colwyn Bay? I dont think you have have you?

[Barry Sanchez]

http://petewishart.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/a-country-of-our-own/

 

What a load of Braveheart ****.

[Whitey Grandad]

Scottish independence will only come if the English vote for it.

 

Sadly the English don't get a vote. We are going to get all the talk and discussion and media coverage over the next year about something that we have no say in.

[Whitey Grandad]

What a load of Braveheart ****.

 

Agreed.

[CB Saint]

While we are getting shot of dead wood, we could think about removing other burdens. The IOW and Highcliffe have a high proportion of old codgers which is likely to be a drain so lets get rid of them. If Sinn Fein can pony up a couple of mill, sell them Northern Ireland. It must be touch a go if cornwall contributes anything, so they can eff off. Never seen the point of Norfolk, they're gone. I'm sure I 've missed a few.

[buctootim]

I dont know why any English people care very much. As long as the financial settlement is equitable - which means if they get the gas and oil they also get they HBOS and RBS debts - then they can happily go off as far im concerned.

[CB Saint]

http://petewishart.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/a-country-of-our-own/

 

So they want their own fiscal control whilst maintaining a single currency - that worked well elsewhere.

[trousers]

I dont know why any English people care very much. As long as the financial settlement is equitable - which means if they get the gas and oil they also get they HBOS and RBS debts - then they can happily go off as far im concerned.

 

And therein lies the main 'problem' with the choices on offer.... no one will know the terms of separation for certain until AFTER the referendum. The referendum is all about the Scots deciding if they want to go down the separation path in principle. If they win the 'yes' vote, then that simply gives the Scottish government the mandate to approach the UK government to negotiate the separation terms and conditions. So, whatever arrangement is pedalled during the campaign, there's no guarantee the UK government will agree to it, or visa versa.

 

That said, its quite clear that Salmond wants a "cake and eat it" outcome....taking all the best bits and leaving all the bad.

Edited 18 September, 2013 by trousers

[buctootim]

If they win the 'yes' vote, then that gives the Scottish government the mandate to approach the UK government to negotiate the separation terms and conditions. So, whatever arrangement is pedalled during the campaign, there's no guarantee the UK government will agree to it.

 

That seems to me to be a strong negotiating position for the rest of the UK. "Here are the terms of the divorce. Agree to them or stay in the Union". Assuming our politicians don't bottle / mess it up spectacularly of course.

[trousers]

That seems to me to be a strong negotiating position for the rest of the UK. "Here are the terms of the divorce. Agree to them or stay in the Union". Assuming our politicians don't bottle / mess it up spectacularly of course.

 

I think a civil war might be the best option.... especially as the SNP have pledged not to use the nuclear weapons currently located in their territory....

[solentstars]

While we are getting shot of dead wood, we could think about removing other burdens. The IOW and Highcliffe have a high proportion of old codgers which is likely to be a drain so lets get rid of them. If Sinn Fein can pony up a couple of mill, sell them Northern Ireland. It must be touch a go if cornwall contributes anything, so they can eff off. Never seen the point of Norfolk, they're gone. I'm sure I 've missed a few.

 

made me laugh anyway good luck to the Scottish people whatever way they vote I'm sure we will still have close relationship .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Whitey Grandad]

And therein lies the main 'problem' with the choices on offer.... no one will know the terms of separation for certain until AFTER the referendum. The referendum is all about the Scots deciding if they want to go down the separation path in principle. If they win the 'yes' vote, then that simply gives the Scottish government the mandate to approach the UK government to negotiate the separation terms and conditions. So, whatever arrangement is pedalled during the campaign, there's no guarantee the UK government will agree to it, or visa versa.

 

That said, its quite clear that Salmond wants a "cake and eat it" outcome....taking all the best bits and leaving all the bad.

 

By 'UK government' do you include the Scottish MPs?

[aintforever]

Hopefully the scots will just f*ck off and do their own thing.

[badgerx16]

What happens when the people of Orkney & the Shetlands start asking for ownership of 'their' oil & gas ?

[Barry Sanchez]

What happens when the people of Orkney & the Shetlands start asking for ownership of 'their' oil & gas ?

 

That question will arise.

[buctootim]

I think a civil war might be the best option...

 

Yonks ago I spent New Year in Glasgow with my then girlfriends parents. Her ****ed dad spent most of the evening going on about how great Scotland were and how awful the English were, culminating in talking about Bannockburn and singing Scotland the Brave. So I mentioned Culloden, he hit me, I pushed him back whilst holding a lump of the first footing coal and accidentally cut his eye open. We didn't go back the following year.

[trousers]

By 'UK government' do you include the Scottish MPs?

 

No, David Cameron & Co. Or Milliband and Co. in 2015.... Yikes...

[trousers]

What happens when the people of Orkney & the Shetlands start asking for ownership of 'their' oil & gas ?

 

They started asking a while back...

 

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/4585-tavish-scott-orkney-and-shetland-could-secede-from-scotland

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9156220/SNP-admits-Shetland-and-Orkney-could-opt-out-of-independent-Scotland.html

 

Angus MacNeil, the SNP’s rural affairs spokesman, told the BBC that both Shetland and Orkney would be permitted to remain part of the UK regardless of the referendum result “if there was a big enough drive for self-determination” among their residents.If they did not join a separate Scotland, he said the islands would retain control over a “fair fraction” of the North Sea oil and gas that Alex Salmond is relying on to fund public services.

The Western Isles MP was reacting to a submission to the Government’s consultation on the referendum by the MSPs for Shetland and Orkney, who warned the islands could opt to remain part of the UK even if the rest of Scotland votes to separate.

Alternatively, its residents may choose to join a separate Scotland in return for a much larger share of oil and gas revenues from their waters or even declare independence themselves.

Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur, the Liberal Democrat MSPs who wrote the paper, last night welcomed Mr MacNeil’s confirmation of the SNP’s previous policy that the islands have the right to determine their own future.

Edited 18 September, 2013 by trousers

[trousers]

http://theporridge.co.uk/post/45823144384/north-sea-oil-platform-bids-for-devolution

 

Following the news that the islands of Shetland and Orkney may negotiate devolved powers from Scotland, allowing them to capitalise on their rich oil and gas reserves, a rogue North Sea oil platform has now launched its own bid for devolution from the islands.

 

The Foinaven platform, which is owned by BP, is currently inhabited by 214 engineers and miscellaneous work crew, who argue that this man-made structure has “as much right to self-determination as the rest of Britain”."Foinaven has topped quality of life studies in a variety of categories for years, and is a desirable and very exclusive place to take up residence", said Chief Engineer Calum Douglas, "We would like to see important powers devolved from Holyrood, such as Education, Health, and I suppose also the sole-ownership of the oil we are stationed directly above".

"This North Sea oil platform covers 100% of the oil below it, we don’t need Orkney, Shetland or even Scotland negotiating our own oil share. We have plenty of our own leverage", added Douglas, "We don’t want more centralising, know-it-all, top-down nationalism. This SNP government couldn’t care less about the outer extremities of the country."

Last Friday, before the announcement by the radical oil platform, Shetland’s MSP Tavish Scott made a speech arguing the case for the devolution of Orkney and Shetland, saying it was “time to seize the opportunity of Island home rule”, going further to add “it’s not your oil Alex, it’s wirs”. When asked for comment regarding the latest independence bid from the North Sea oil platform, Scott stated that “[he] did not see this coming”.

As of press time a protest has broken out amongst residents of the oil platform, seemingly over disagreements regarding oil ownership and distribution of wealth. Several men have reportedly now jumped off the platform, into the icy North Sea, and are swimming rapidly for the oil well after a shout of “who’s closest owns it!” was heard.

 

[eurosaint]

Sadly the English don't get a vote. We are going to get all the talk and discussion and media coverage over the next year about something that we have no say in.

 

I'm Scottish and I don't get a vote either !

 

The fact is though that the SNP became popular because of all the concessions they managed to wring out of Labour in their government years. Out of fear and the misconception that they would retain votes, they kowtowed to Salmond and his cronies but the more he got, the more he wanted. As a result of this, the SNP were seen as achievers and have a sizeable support in the country !

For many though, the question of independence is a completely different ball game and there is no indication that the outcome will follow the existing party split.

Personally I am confident that when the economic argument starts to hit home then most will favour the status quo and remain part of the union !

I hope so anyway !

Edited 18 September, 2013 by eurosaint

[Viking Warrior]

Badgers and Co

 

What happens when the people of Orkney & the Shetlands start asking for ownership of 'their' oil & gas

 

It has already started, There is a conference in Orkney tomorrow,

 

Its called our Isles our future .

 

The campaign has seen Orkney Islands Council join forces with colleagues in Shetland Islands Council and Comhairle nan Eilean Siar to press the Scottish and UK Governments for more powers following the Independence Referendum in September 2014. Following the launch of the campaign in June, the Scottish Government set up a Ministerial Working Group to look at the issues being raised and the UK Government has also undertaken to meet with representatives from the three local authorities.

 

Leading the conference is award-winning political journalist Iain Macwhirter. He is joined on the conference programme by an array of speakers including Ian Davidson MP, who is Chair of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, Derek Mackay MSP, who is Minister for Local Government and Planning and Lord Wallace of Tankerness

 

There will be presentations on a vast array of issues including marine resources, constitutional arrangements and economic drivers, as well as from the Yes Scotland and Better Together campaigns.

 

Council Convener Steven Heddle said: “‘Our Islands Our Future’ is our vision for a

stronger future for Scotland’s islands following the independence referendum of 2014. We are calling for a commitment that whatever the outcome the needs and status of island areas are clearly recognised in the new era for Scotland.

 

“This conference is a demonstration of the unified commitment and vision from the three island authorities. It gives us the opportunity to present the unique distinctiveness of each of the three island groups and convey why it is entirely reasonable for the islands to ask for devolved powers and direct management of funding that will enhance local democracy and ensure our communities benefit from the developments that take place in our islands.”

[Viking Warrior]

Removed wrong link

Edited 18 September, 2013 by Viking Warrior

[Viking Warrior]

Sorry this is the link I meant to have posted

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

At least independence will answer the west Lothian question , which labour just ignored for party political reasons.

[melmacian_saint]

The moment I read that Denmark was seen as a great inspiration for a Scottish political and economic model I laughed.

 

They don't understand or even are able to embrace a remotely Scandinavian model, and they are not Norway to be able to explore through trial and error. The best thing they can do is keep their economy within anglo-saxon parameters until they realize what their state can actually provide, and what their private sector/civic society really is about. Oh and consider re-applying for the EU when they've sorted their existence out (unless they're hoping that becoming an independent state will guarantee them quick access to more structural funds?).

 

Right now, I'd say prospects are bleak. But it is a different ball game when you're on your own, so who knows...

[pap]

They will most likely get done up in the referendum. There are rules that have to be obeyed during elections, such as not telling f*cking whoppers, that don't apply during referenda.

 

My hope is they vote yes, institute a left wing utopia and inspire the North to clamour for it's own independence

 

Left wing paradises ahoy!

[mcjwills]

Pehaps we ought to grant independence to the orkneys and outer islands with the rights to the oil before granting independance to Scotland. How would they feel beeing the poor relations to the outer hebridies, do you think Salmond would bee so keen to break away from the UK.

Of course true to English history we could always send the army & marines in to invade to invade the outer islands and make it English post getting rid of the financial burden that is Scotland. Do Sotland automatically come members of Europe post devolution or can we set up proper border controls, once we tell all the illegal immigrants in the country that double free benifits are available in Scotland

[CB Saint]

While we are getting shot of dead wood, we could think about removing other burdens. The IOW and Highcliffe have a high proportion of old codgers which is likely to be a drain so lets get rid of them. If Sinn Fein can pony up a couple of mill, sell them Northern Ireland. It must be touch a go if cornwall contributes anything, so they can eff off. Never seen the point of Norfolk, they're gone. I'm sure I 've missed a few.

 

They will most likely get done up in the referendum. There are rules that have to be obeyed during elections, such as not telling f*cking whoppers, that don't apply during referenda.

 

My hope is they vote yes, institute a left wing utopia and inspire the North to clamour for it's own independence

 

Left wing paradises ahoy!

 

Knew i'd missed one!!!

[mcjwills]

Knew i'd missed one!!!

 

We could instantly get the crime rate of England down by devolving Liverpool and surrounding areas

[Whitey Grandad]

The moment I read that Denmark was seen as a great inspiration for a Scottish political and economic model I laughed.

 

They don't understand or even are able to embrace a remotely Scandinavian model, and they are not Norway to be able to explore through trial and error. The best thing they can do is keep their economy within anglo-saxon parameters until they realize what their state can actually provide, and what their private sector/civic society really is about. Oh and consider re-applying for the EU when they've sorted their existence out (unless they're hoping that becoming an independent state will guarantee them quick access to more structural funds?).

 

Right now, I'd say prospects are bleak. But it is a different ball game when you're on your own, so who knows...

 

The Scots wouldn't like a society modelled on Denmark. Every ex-pat that I ever met there hated it. Far too rigid with no room for self-expression.

[Whitey Grandad]

Do Sotland automatically come members of Europe post devolution or can we set up proper border controls, once we tell all the illegal immigrants in the country that double free benifits are available in Scotland

 

I believe not. They would have to apply for membership.