Wanyama - initial thoughts

[Wiggles31]

I thought he was meant to be a box to box player with attacking threat as opposed to a holding player. He looked better when carrying the ball forward yesterday rather than covering the defence where his passing was at times poor.

 

So far a decent looking player but not sure about the 12m price tag. Was brilliant against Sunderland and WBA but not quite so good against Norwich and West Ham.

 

Wanna see him play more as the box to box player I thought he was at Celtic ala an upgrade on Steven Davis.

[Delboy Dave]

Initial thoughts are he's a big presence and very average

[Batman]

he clearly offers as a big unit in front of the back 4.

our goals against shows how much he has helped (throw in lovren too)

we just dont look like conceding on the break and he is a brick **** house

 

his passing is terrible but I think that would be improved (along with morgan) had we went back to what served us well last season and stop having 2 strikers and adding a davis/ramirez in the middle to provide more options

 

again, his passing is terrible and you can see why no top club would pay £10m+ for him.

saying that, he is only 21 and will only improve. should he do that (and he will) we will have a beast on our hands

[Wiggles31]

I don't think his passing is terrible, against Sunderland he rarely gave it away but yes yesterday he was guilty of poor passing.

 

Is he not meant to be a box to box midfielder? Similar to Toure. That's the player I initially thought we were getting. One would could win the ball and bring it forward to start an attack.

[Miltonaggro]

With work he could be the new George Lawrence!...

[Stepgar]

Yet to be convinced why we bought him to be honest. I was really hoping he would be a monster in the middle for us but yet to see it.

 

He looks scared stiff every time he has the ball. I thought he got muscled out of a few challenges yesterday all too easily. It could be just the step from Scottish footie and the more he plays the better he will become as he will adapt.......I hope.

[david in sweden]

fairly clearly, we don't play the same formation as Celtic and it will take a while for him to adapt to us,

 

.......but if he can dominate and impose himself on the midfield - without picking up too many yellow cards - then he'll be worth the money.

[Mystic Force]

I wouldn't get too excited he has stopped the likes of WBA and sunderland, you know teams scoring for fun this year. We haven't faced a good attacking team yet. That is when we can say if he is a good defensive player or not. But I think we all see that his passing is not what we were expecting. My thoughts from the first game of the season was passing not good enough but maybe he is just getting used to where his team mates are at. But that becomes less of an excuse the more you play. If the passing stays like this till mid season we have been taken in.

[davefizzy14]

Very impressed so far, is our powerhouse. Passing will improve in time

[Saint Garrett]

Jury is out. Not sure about him. He's got a lot of work to do to become the player I thought we were getting. Passing is poor and seems to hold onto the ball too much.

 

Hopefully he'll come good though.

[Golden Balls]

Hit and miss so far. Although I think he's probably a better player than Cork overall, Morgan and Cork make a better partnership.

 

Still early days though.

[Jack]

Good against WBA and Sunderland, absolutely shocking against Norwich, very average yesterday. Slows the ball down too much and often loses possession with heavy touches when dribbling. 5/10.

[itchen_dan]

Very, very average. Nowhere near worth £12.5m.

[jawillwill]

Very, very average. Nowhere near worth £12.5m.

 

3 matches ago he was worth "at least £20m".

[KelvinsRightGlove]

 

Do people never learn. He has played four league games FFS.

 

Yes, he didn't have a great game yesterday. But it is far too soon to proclaim him the messiah or write him off yet.

[Wopper]

If he was any good the big boys would have bought him.

[shurlock]

he clearly offers as a big unit in front of the back 4.

our goals against shows how much he has helped (throw in lovren too)

we just dont look like conceding on the break and he is a brick **** house

 

his passing is terrible but I think that would be improved (along with morgan) had we went back to what served us well last season and stop having 2 strikers and adding a davis/ramirez in the middle to provide more options

 

again, his passing is terrible and you can see why no top club would pay £10m+ for him.

saying that, he is only 21 and will only improve. should he do that (and he will) we will have a beast on our hands

 

Agree think Davis is a miss - would take the pressure off Wanyama and Morgan, drops off into good spaces, rarely concedes possession and keeps things flowing. Ramirez has more upside but lacks consistency. Lallana could also play in the middle but theres no obvious replacement on the left hand side.

 

The result is that there's too much space between Victor/Morgan and the front four. Don't think Morgan and Victor have worked out when one should push forward and the other stay back. With Cork the division of labour was relatively clear, freeing up Morgan. Victor can go forward and would love to see him use his strength more and drive with the ball but he's happy to choose the easy option which ultimately caps his value and contribution.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

If he was any good the big boys would have bought him.

 

 

So outside the "big boys" there are no good players?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

 

Do people never learn. He has played four league games FFS.

 

Yes, he didn't have a great game yesterday. But it is far too soon to proclaim him the messiah or write him off yet.

 

I think it is fairly clear people are only judging him on four games - there is nothing else to judge him on. Four games is enough for a first impression and he gets too many touches of the ball for my liking considering he doesn't seem to particularly value possession.

 

I was impressed against WBA but he made me want to stab myself in the eye with a rusty nail at Norwich. Whilst he is only 21 and relatively inexperienced I can see how performances could be up and down - especially in a new team in a harder league than he is use to - however, at the same time he cost £12.5m and he is doing plenty of things a £5m player shouldn't be doing, let alone one who cost over twice as much. That said I appreciate the transfer fee is nothing to do with him.

 

I suppose in summary I hope there is plenty more to come.

[dan abnormal]

Still a long way to go. I think he needs to realise he has to be on the top of his game week in week out in the Prem unlike the SPL. As for his passing, Morgans wasn't a muchbetter yesterday due to that fact there was no decent options in front him as lallana wasn't dropping deep and there was no Davis/JWP/Ramirez to help link the play. Still early days yet and he is a young player.

 

He would probably be better suited to away games where we don't dominate possesion, Liverpool would be a good test.

[maddog]

Played in a very average league before joining us so im not expecting much to be honest, could have done better for the cash we spent. Can anyone name a player thats really gone onto do well after moving from the SPL to the EPL? There must be some?

[The9]

+ Strong, good at winning the ball, offers long range shooting and longer pass options, decent at knocking the ball backwards and keeping possession - in that way.

 

- Sometimes weak first touch, tendency to give simple passes to opposition, a little ponderous on the ball on occasion, doesn't fit previous system, has been overusing long passes.

 

Doesn't look like a £12.5m player at the moment, but it might be that with extended exposure to the system and the players he can improve the bits he needs to and grow into it. Looks like he's going to get the chance, but at the moment he looks like a play-breaker with a shot on him.

[Wiggles31]

Still wanna see hin get forward more and see Morgan sit deeper during attacks. He looked better when carrying the ball forward. Very early days to judge him fully. Think he is a very promising player though. Liverpool will be a test for him.

[Mr Sparky]

Same as Volkswagen.

[BadgerBadger]

work in progress and some way to go before he's worth the 12 mill

[chocco boxo]

One good match vrs the best team in the world makes him some sort of player, shame football is not similar to conkers !

[whelk]

One good match vrs the best team in the world makes him some sort of player, shame football is not similar to conkers !

 

when did he play against Bayern Munich?

[IOWSaintDaz]

Good ball winner and has great strength, but passing is woeful as seen on Sunday, not worth the £12M fee shelled out so far

[sammysaint]

Must say he gave the ball away which every player does, however he dont a few at key moments when we could of had a quick break, for me im still shocked how Cork is not on the bench and doesnt come on and get at least 15-20 mins a game.

[egg]

He's not a great footballer. His distribution is poor and he's sliw to release the ball. Further, he' not proven to be a better ball winner than Morgan and Cork.

 

Having seen him last season I questioned his signing and said that he'd do nothing to assist our footballing style. Long term i hope I'm proved wrong but so far its another 12m badly spent.

[Smirking_Saint]

I like him, big prescence, very athletic, gives us an extra element when defending teams breaking against us and certainly helps with any long ball threats.

 

His passing is hit and miss but Im not sure its as bad as is being made out, my bigger worry is he holds onto the ball too long at times and gets dispossessed.

 

Good player, will improve, probably not worth 12m

[WealdSaint]

I think seeing how he gets on against Liverpool will be interesting

[Turkish]

The problem he has is that Saints fans are not used to us spending £12m on a player, especially one that isn't an attacking player. Saints fans and the football manager generation in general seem to think if a player cost a certain amount they have a set level of ability. They expect them to be brilliant straight away and be brilliant in every game. It doesn't take into account factors like age, playing in the premier league for the first time and so. We've spent a lot of money for Saints on a player that is never going to be spectacular, he's essentally a stopper and destroyer, not a great footballer. Time will tell if we've wasted £12m or if he develops into the new Essien.

[saintbob40]

Four games ( + pre season games) is long enough to judge a footballer's technical ability. Wanyama's is low although he may make a decent anti-footballer who stops other teams playing. That in itself takes some degree of football intelligence and experience though as positional play and judgment then come into it. The most worrying aspect is that we are having to play more and more long balls to overcome our inability to play from the back. We don't seem to press any more as well. In other words we are adapting our system ,which worked well last year, to accomodate one player. I think he causes more problems then he solves.

 

Couple this with Lambert and Osvaldo upfront tripping over each other and the team looks a bit of a mess and our pattern of play has been completely disrupted.

[egg]

The problem he has is that Saints fans are not used to us spending £12m on a player, especially one that isn't an attacking player. Saints fans and the football manager generation in general seem to think if a player cost a certain amount they have a set level of ability. They expect them to be brilliant straight away and be brilliant in every game. It doesn't take into account factors like age, playing in the premier league for the first time and so. We've spent a lot of money for Saints on a player that is never going to be spectacular, he's essentally a stopper and destroyer, not a great footballer. Time will tell if we've wasted £12m or if he develops into the new Essien.

 

But Del, Essien and even Mikel are destroyers but on evidence so far (inc his performances last season) VW isn't as good a footballer as those 2. Cork and Morgan are able to break up play but are also great footballers.

 

Time won't give him the ability to pass better, but he may adjust to the pace and release the ball sooner.

 

You're right on the price though. To my money he's never a 12m player, but for that price I think we should be entitled to a better footballer than we bought and I'm staggered that we spent that money on a player who has weakened us a football team.

[hypochondriac]

It will be interesting when Wanyama gets a ban how we play if cork comes back.

[Asaint4ever]

I think he worth more than 12m he's class

[Chez]

I like him a lot. He didn't have a good first half on Sunday, but you can see he has ability on the ball and great strength. At WBA he was immense. The one thing I would say is that he likes to play himself into trouble (often by taking a lot of time and drawing the opponent in) and then use his strength to get out of it. Other players would perhaps just be a little quicker and not need to use their strength. It works for him, but I think that style might actually make him look a slightly better player than he really is.

 

Passing wise he is OK (again he didn't pass well on Sunday, but I don't think that is indicative of his general ability), but when there is space in front of him he seems slightly reluctant to run into it. Also his passing is a little square and backwards. Nothing wrong with keeping possession, but at times it seems to be his first thought.

 

At the moment he seems to be overshadowing Morgan, who hardly seems to be getting any ball. The balance might not be quite right and overall having two deep lying midfielders isn't working quite right with not enough options for the defenders when they have the ball. The two central midfielders don't offer themselves, which looks to be a tactic. There needs to be a slight adjustment to get the bets out of both CM.

[rooney]

He will be fine. He is young and strong and will develop quickly at Saints. A spell on the bench for Jack Cork ,may realise he has to work hard to develop his atributes.

[saintadjg]

i think he's being made a scapegoat against norwich and wham most of the team were shocking ,Jrod was diabolical against wham.VW is a defensive midfielder so his natural instinct will be to play defensively. Personaly i think he's a massive upgrade on Cork.

Two MOTM displays two not so good ,though big improvemnt in 2nd half against WHAM.

I doubt we brought him for his passing,and like some have pointed out along with Loveren has helped us to be very hard to score against. The team are reminding me of the Strach and Hoddle eras at the mo.we may not be as easy on the eye but we dominate possesion and don't really look like conceding.Compared to this time last year there is no comparison,i'll take where were at now thank you very much.Some here just cant see the wood for the trees.

[corky morris]

Never thought buying a central midfielder was a priority so not sure why we bought him in the first place. It was not just first half against West Ham, it was the whole game he was poor. Yep, he was not the only one, but our game is built on pressure & ball retention. He is physically strong enought to press, but his poor passing means we lose the ball.

He is also far to slow to build attacks. Again the team are guilty of that, but we never get out of second gear. That drive should come from central midfield & for me, as yet he has not shown anywhere near enough.

It will be very interesting to see how he gets on at Liverpool.

[Turkish]

But Del, Essien and even Mikel are destroyers but on evidence so far (inc his performances last season) VW isn't as good a footballer as those 2. Cork and Morgan are able to break up play but are also great footballers.

 

Time won't give him the ability to pass better, but he may adjust to the pace and release the ball sooner.

 

You're right on the price though. To my money he's never a 12m player, but for that price I think we should be entitled to a better footballer than we bought and I'm staggered that we spent that money on a player who has weakened us a football team.

 

I remember when Mikel broke into the first team there was a large sense of underwhelment given the hype surrounding him. As i say, time will tell if he our Essien or if it's £12m down the drain. THe reality is that like a lot of players it will be somewhere in between. I think he is good at what he does but needs to adapt to the pace of the premier league and being harried when he's on the ball, i doubt very much in Scotland he came up against many like Kevin Nolan. I think it's pretty evident already that he isnt a skillfull player and perhaps not suited to games where we have a lot of the ball, but for games away and against the bigger clubs where we need the ability to win the ball back he'll excel. The problem was on sunday he wasn't suited to that type of game and it was crying out for a Ramirez. We stuck with one and didn't use the other, for that you need to look at the manager im afraid.

[egg]

I remember when Mikel broke into the first team there was a large sense of underwhelment given the hype surrounding him. As i say, time will tell if he our Essien or if it's £12m down the drain. THe reality is that like a lot of players it will be somewhere in between. I think he is good at what he does but needs to adapt to the pace of the premier league and being harried when he's on the ball, i doubt very much in Scotland he came up against many like Kevin Nolan. I think it's pretty evident already that he isnt a skillfull player and perhaps not suited to games where we have a lot of the ball, but for games away and against the bigger clubs where we need the ability to win the ball back he'll excel. The problem was on sunday he wasn't suited to that type of game and it was crying out for a Ramirez. We stuck with one and didn't use the other, for that you need to look at the manager im afraid.

 

All fair points. For me I'm not convinced his positives outweigh the negatives and that over the course of the season that he'll help us improve as a team. I hope I'm wrong and time will tell.

 

The Gaston point is interesting. Sunday was made for him to play in the hole and be the link between big VW and the forwards. The question is whether VW would have been able to supply him the ball. In reality his distribution is such that the manager may have preferred to keep Morgan in there knowing that he's better equipped to breakup play if/when VW gives it away. Maybe I'm being overly harsh but his limitations do affect the way we play and team selection.

[forever a red and white]

Is he 12m better than Jack Cork?

[Turkish]

All fair points. For me I'm not convinced his positives outweigh the negatives and that over the course of the season that he'll help us improve as a team. I hope I'm wrong and time will tell.

 

The Gaston point is interesting. Sunday was made for him to play in the hole and be the link between big VW and the forwards. The question is whether VW would have been able to supply him the ball. In reality his distribution is such that the manager may have preferred to keep Morgan in there knowing that he's better equipped to breakup play if/when VW gives it away. Maybe I'm being overly harsh but his limitations do affect the way we play and team selection.

 

Gastons best games have been when we've had a lot of the ball and been on top, he's good then. What he's not good at or hasn't been so far is changing games in our favour. We dominated possession and with Nolan and Noble pushing onto Schnierlin and Wanyama it would have either enabled Gaston to exploit the space in behind them or one of them would have had to drop deeper. WIth us having something like 68% possesion the game was made for him, yet for whatever reason he didn't get a look in. Like you say he was made for the role ahead of Wanyama. MP's teams seem to be built around hardwork and closing down and that isnt Ramirez, you have to wonder where he fits in.

[beatlesaint]

Is he 12m better than Jack Cork?

 

At the moment, after 4 leaue matches no.

Will he be after 24 league matches ?

That will be the test.

[lnb203]

My assessment is as such:

 

WBA - Excellent

Sunderland - Good

Norwich - Poor

WHU - Shocker first half, decent second

 

Bit of a mixed bag in all, though I have seen enough to suggest he has the makings of a top class player. Obviously he has added stability and muscle defensively, and I think his technique is under rated on this forum. He turns into space well, and looks good when stepping forward on the attack (although he seems hesitant to do). My biggest criticism would be that he is occasionally slow to release which negatively affects our fluidity and tempo although I feel this is probably related to him coming to terms with the premier league, and will improve in time.

 

His passing against Norwich and WHU was disappointing, but I think some on here are forgetting the WBA and Sunderland matches where he barely gave the ball away at all. My initial impressions of him were of a hugely class midfield player who bossed the midfield, made space for himself and retained the ball with ease. The passing criticism seems rather kneejerk to make - let's remember that a bad game doesn't make a bad player.

 

In fact, according to 'whoscored.com', his pass completion is 83.7%. This is better all of our starting back 4, SRL, Osvaldo, Lallana, JR, Ramirez, and basically everyone else in our team except MS and JWP (who both have pass completion of circa 85%).

 

I have a strong feeling he will go on to become a key player for us, especially as he is just 22 and will improve.

[Supersubpuckett]

his poor passing, slight cluelessness and ponderous tempo remind me of hammond in the championship (admittedly the hammers game was the first time i saw him properly)

 

a mate of mine saw us play at norwich and thought it was hilarious we paid 12.5m for him

[lnb203]

his poor passing, slight cluelessness and ponderous tempo remind me of hammond in the championship (admittedly the hammers game was the first time i saw him properly)

 

a mate of mine saw us play at norwich and thought it was hilarious we paid 12.5m for him

 

Your mate would have thought 12.5m a steal had he watched VW against WBA.

[JoeShmoe]

The problem he has is not his problem IMO, its because when he gets the ball he does look forward for the pass but there is often little in front of him so he's having to check. Lallana, JRod and MS were woeful against WHU, they should have been offering for a short pass for Wanyama but never did. I thought he did better second half in being more positive in getting forward but we need to start going to more of a 4-1-3-2 type of formation with MS further forward and JWP in the team (who's a better player now that Lallana is IMO). MS looks lost next to him, possibly because he's so good in that def midfield role

 

Boruc - Clyne Lovren, Fonte, Shaw - VW - JWP, MS, JRod/Lallana, Osv,SRL