Debate needed on veils in some public places, says minister

[Barry Sanchez]

No mention of a veil in that report. And she's been successfully prosecuted. Nice trolling.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424317/Muslim-woman-Shaheda-Lorgat-unmasked-court-stealing-college.html

 

Apology? She is suing her cutural/religious heritage to her advantage.

[saint si]

Yes indeed using a veil to mask their identity.

 

To attempt to mask their identity during the trial process. Not to commit the crime, as you are implying. In fact the daily mail article you linked to says she didn't wear the veil before the court appearances.

 

So therefore what we have is:

 

- someone committed a crime (through abuse of a position of trust, not through wearing a disguise that somehow magically enables credit card fraud)

- and who then wanted to wear a veil to try and give them some anonymity from the press or whatever during the trial process

 

Thus proving... er, nothing at all.

[Barry Sanchez]

To attempt to mask their identity during the trial process. Not to commit the crime, as you are implying. In fact the daily mail article you linked to says she didn't wear the veil before the court appearances.

 

So therefore what we have is:

 

- someone committed a crime (through abuse of a position of trust, not through wearing a disguise that somehow magically enables credit card fraud)

- and who then wanted to wear a veil to try and give them some anonymity from the press or whatever during the trial process

 

Thus proving... er, nothing at all.

 

It proves its a cloak of convenience.

[saint si]

It proves its a cloak of convenience.

 

For one person, who has already proved themselves to be of dubious character.

[Manuel]

The article doesn't really add to the debate in my opinion. Yeah she is probably using the veil to her advantage, attempting to protect her anonymity (and failing), but only in the same way as someone covering their head and face with blankets/coats as they enter and leave court. So I don't have an issue with it. The veil has not helped her here.

[Barry Sanchez]

For one person, who has already proved themselves to be of dubious character.

 

How many other niqab converts have there been? Probably a lot but that misses the point, its the point of identity, in a Western culture the face is valued and respected as a form of communication and indentity and it really is as simple as that, there is no place for that here, we aspire to be an open and transparent society and this does nothing to enhance that.

[Barry Sanchez]

The article doesn't really add to the debate in my opinion. Yeah she is probably using the veil to her advantage, attempting to protect her anonymity (and failing), but only in the same way as someone covering their head and face with blankets/coats as they enter and leave court. So I don't have an issue with it. The veil has not helped her here.

 

Again not the point, she tried to use it to her advantage thereby damaging the image of it.

[holepuncture]

It proves its a cloak of convenience.

 

You and I can wear the burka too Barry, there is nothing to stop us, it is not about religion or law as we have seen on this thread.

 

If everyone who is concerned (of all cultures) started wearing burkas in an ironic campaign im sure it will will be nipped in the bud in no time at all.

 

The article doesn't really add to the debate in my opinion. Yeah she is probably using the veil to her advantage, attempting to protect her anonymity (and failing), but only in the same way as someone covering their head and face with blankets/coats as they enter and leave court. So I don't have an issue with it. The veil has not helped her here.

 

I was thinking the same, all people at courts who are about to get papped outside try and cover themselves with something.

 

However Mr Sanchez has a point with the 'cloak of convenience', this is my issue with full face and body covering in public, it can be cherry picked for convenience.

 

The people (English men IIRC) who concealed sledgehammers under burkas and raided a shopping centre used the clothing as a 'cloak of convenience'.

 

Whilst I feel the UK allowing the full face covering burka is wrong as it is explicitly endorsing the oppression of women and that legitimacy (given by the Governments stance) is actually now making these oppressed women victims of hate in society, my main concern still lies with community safety and I believe the burka provides a significant security risk.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24158041

 

The debate grows stronger with the NHS needing to review their policy, I agree with Hunt, I would want to be able to communicate with a medic properly.

[Barry Sanchez]

You and I can wear the burka too Barry, there is nothing to stop us, it is not about religion or law as we have seen on this thread.

 

And there is the point made anyone can wear it.

 

If everyone who is concerned (of all cultures) started wearing burkas in an ironic campaign im sure it will will be nipped in the bud in no time at all.

 

Why if its a cultural thing surely there wouldn't be an issue? Or it would become more of a security issue?

[Viking Warrior]

There is to be a review into whether NHS staff in England should be allowed to wear full face veils, according to the Department of Health.

 

Ministers have asked the doctors' regulator, the General Medical Council, to assess the issue to ensure there is "appropriate" face-to-face contact with patients.

 

I do not be want to be treated by someone in hospital who has their face covered. Kids will get scared and same for the old folk

At least with the face exposed you know who is treating you surgically or medically

 

There is a time and a place for the nijab/ burka , but its not in hospitals

[Manuel]

I agree I think hospital work with patient contact should be one of those situations where veils are not allowed. I expect we could draw up a list of situations where it would not be appropriate to be covered up and society could debate the finer details e.g. security/education/communication.

 

But a ban would mean you couldn't walk down the street in your own time covered up, which is I think is what's on the table, and I would argue against.

 

It would also mean I wouldn't be able to bring out my spandex all over body suit which I enjoy from time to time when I want to be private.

[Viking Warrior]

Look at it another way what if a Muslim lass was wearing a nijab and got facial injuries would my medic friends be allowed to remove or would they have to only expose the area that was injured . You may scorn but it does happen overseas

[Wade Garrett]

Another argument against the veil and the other stuff is that it looks ****. They would look much better showing off their faces and wearing mini skirts and low cut tops to show off their tits and arses. While we are on the subject, we should also look at the crap jeans worn by the Polish.

[CB Saint]

You and I can wear the burka too Barry, there is nothing to stop us, it is not about religion or law as we have seen on this thread.

 

And there is the point made anyone can wear it.

 

If everyone who is concerned (of all cultures) started wearing burkas in an ironic campaign im sure it will will be nipped in the bud in no time at all.

 

Why if its a cultural thing surely there wouldn't be an issue? Or it would become more of a security issue?

 

there was a comment in the press a while back on these lines except aimed at the yoof. If everyone over the age of sixty started wearing hoodies, the yoof would quickly stop. Maybe if the EDL hijacked the burka maybe the same would apply

[CB Saint]

There is to be a review into whether NHS staff in England should be allowed to wear full face veils, according to the Department of Health.

 

Ministers have asked the doctors' regulator, the General Medical Council, to assess the issue to ensure there is "appropriate" face-to-face contact with patients.

 

I do not be want to be treated by someone in hospital who has their face covered. Kids will get scared and same for the old folk

At least with the face exposed you know who is treating you surgically or medically

 

There is a time and a place for the nijab/ burka , but its not in hospitals

 

Id have to admit, I might be disconcerted somewhat if the first thing I saw when coming round from a general anaesthetic was a nurse in a burka standing over me

[Turkish]

Another argument against the veil and the other stuff is that it looks ****. They would look much better showing off their faces and wearing mini skirts and low cut tops to show off their tits and arses. While we are on the subject, we should also look at the crap jeans worn by the Polish.

 

 

Definitely a need to a debate on this and also their trainers.

 

 

I quite like the Asian look, dark hair skin and eyes so the more of them we can see the better IMO.

[Barry Sanchez]

Another argument against the veil and the other stuff is that it looks ****. They would look much better showing off their faces and wearing mini skirts and low cut tops to show off their tits and arses. While we are on the subject, we should also look at the crap jeans worn by the Polish.

Its not the jeans its the permanent Niko Belic look..........................