5 points more than 12 months ago

[OldNick]

Well, if you don't think that playing three of the top four teams in the first four fixtures to be the toughest start, then give me your alternative tougher list with the teams and dates. I might be mistaken, but I don't believe that there has been a starting fixture list where another team had to play three of the top four teams in the opening four matches.

 

Why we were poor in those other games was a combination of lowered confidence after the first four games, a learning curve after a baptism of fire in the top flight having just been promoted and the absence of Cork. Improved results coincided with his returned to fitness.

 

You might be overjoyed at the 5 points in four games, but considering the opposition and only two goals, excuse me for not being overwhelmed with optimism.

 

And defeat by the mighty Wigan might well be compared to defeat this time around by the mighty Norwich, taking into account the level of expenditure we made these past two seasons.

I understand being underwhelmed but comparing a defeat at home to Wigan and an away defeat at Norwich is not comparable IMO. Nprwich have been a year longer in the Pl and also spent big this summer.

[Wes Tender]

I understand being underwhelmed but comparing a defeat at home to Wigan and an away defeat at Norwich is not comparable IMO. Nprwich have been a year longer in the Pl and also spent big this summer.

 

Well, Wigan had been in the top flight 7 years longer at that time.

[Saint_clark]

Yep.

 

I suspect we wont improve in the second half of the season like we did last season, so we are probably in big trouble.

 

You're right, we've already improved. Hence the title of this thread.

[Wes Tender]

You're right, we've already improved. Hence the title of this thread.

 

Is our points total under Pochettino since he arrived better than for the same number of games under Adkins before he left then? Surely that is the acid test, rather than a comparison of the first 4 matches of last season against this to gauge whether we have improved; especially when the financial outlay on players recently is taken into consideration?

[Whitey Grandad]

Is our points total under Pochettino since he arrived better than for the same number of games under Adkins before he left then? Surely that is the acid test, rather than a comparison of the first 4 matches of last season against this to gauge whether we have improved; especially when the financial outlay on players recently is taken into consideration?

 

It takes several games for new players to settle into the team. My view is that we are a better team than this time last season and definitely more solid. First build a solid defence and then work on scoring more goals.

[Saint_clark]

Is our points total under Pochettino since he arrived better than for the same number of games under Adkins before he left then? Surely that is the acid test, rather than a comparison of the first 4 matches of last season against this to gauge whether we have improved; especially when the financial outlay on players recently is taken into consideration?

 

I have absolutely no idea. Truth is we'll never be able to definitively prove which one had the better record, as Adkins never had a full season and Pochettinos fixtures this year will be different up to the point Adkins got sacked. All we know for sure is that we are in a much stronger position now than we were at this stage last season.

[Batman]

Well, if you don't think that playing three of the top four teams in the first four fixtures to be the toughest start, then give me your alternative tougher list with the teams and dates. I might be mistaken, but I don't believe that there has been a starting fixture list where another team had to play three of the top four teams in the opening four matches.

 

Why we were poor in those other games was a combination of lowered confidence after the first four games, a learning curve after a baptism of fire in the top flight having just been promoted and the absence of Cork. Improved results coincided with his returned to fitness.

 

You might be overjoyed at the 5 points in four games, but considering the opposition and only two goals, excuse me for not being overwhelmed with optimism.

 

And defeat by the mighty Wigan might well be compared to defeat this time around by the mighty Norwich, taking into account the level of expenditure we made these past two seasons.

 

Norwich also spent a great deal this window and finished above us last year

[OldNick]

Well, Wigan had been in the top flight 7 years longer at that time.

yep and i assume that fans of other teams used Saints tenure in the PL of 27years rather than the relegation one as a yardstick

[Dellman]

What was the goal difference this time last year?

[Olallana]

What was the goal difference this time last year?

 

 

But it was exciting wasn´t it....

[alpine_saint]

You're right, we've already improved. Hence the title of this thread.

 

So now quality of opposition is totally irrelevant.

 

Rightyho.

 

Bang goes another load of happy-clappy bullsh*t from last season...

[Olallana]

So now quality of opposition is totally irrelevant.

 

Rightyho.

 

Bang goes another load of happy-clappy bullsh*t from last season...

 

So go another game forward then, didn´t you expect us to win against Wigan and Aston Villa at home last year?

 

We only won one of those giving us 3 points after 5 games, we now are at 5 points with a game in hand....

[Big Ron fan]

We got 18 points from Adkins last 12 games. I'm using this as a starting point (Swansea at home) as that is when Shaw and Cork were available.

 

We now have 25 points from 20 games under Potch, a majority of which were in his first 10 games (when he had taken on a side that was obviously playing fairly well and with some confidence).

 

It's surely obvious to anyone who's been watching us since the latter part of last season that we are playing nothing like as well as we were in the middle of last season and the results back this up. We don't have anything like the passing and movement that we previously had and most teams seem to have worked out ways to nullify us.

Potch has not given me any indication that he is likely to improve things.

[alpine_saint]

We got 18 points from Adkins last 12 games. I'm using this as a starting point (Swansea at home) as that is when Shaw and Cork were available.

 

We now have 25 points from 20 games under Potch, a majority of which were in his first 10 games (when he had taken on a side that was obviously playing fairly well and with some confidence).

 

It's surely obvious to anyone who's been watching us since the latter part of last season that we are playing nothing like as well as we were in the middle of last season and the results back this up. We don't have anything like the passing and movement that we previously had and most teams seem to have worked out ways to nullify us.

Potch has not given me any indication that he is likely to improve things.

 

Yep. And he spent 30m in the meantime.

 

Troubling times..

[rshephard3]

yep the tactical genius he is, taking off RL , Al, and Puncheon when we were beating Man U, especially as they were being torn apart by those 3 on the day. Not only that he didn't learn and did the same again at home to Fulham.

NA was out of his depth, time will tell if MP is as well

 

Does out of your depth now include managing the large majority of games for a side finishing comfortable mid table, well clear of relegation in your first season back in the prem for the best part of a decade? Wow. If that counted as out of your depth then Holloway drowned the moment CP secured promotion! All IMHO of course. The comparison to the start of last season is far too harsh on Adkins and far too kind to MP for any number of reasons.

[Alanh]

As I'm sure has been pointed out the real comparison is how we performed against the same teams we have just played last season. We got 2 points from the same fixtures last season. This season we've got 5 points. In addition last season we scored one goal in those four fixtures and conceded five, so our goal difference of 0 this season is also better.

 

No point in comparing the four games that we had at the start of last season as they were against different teams, one of which we won't play in the league this year.

[oldsarum]

Is our points total under Pochettino since he arrived better than for the same number of games under Adkins before he left then? Surely that is the acid test, rather than a comparison of the first 4 matches of last season against this to gauge whether we have improved; especially when the financial outlay on players recently is taken into consideration?

 

In the games against the same oppponents last season we got 2 points in a 1-1 draw at home to West Ham, and lost 2-0 at West Brom. losst 1-0 to Sunderland and drew 0-0 at Norwich, so effectively we are 3 pts better off then last season.

 

However it's most unlikely the way we are playing that we'd beat Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City at home this time around

[aintforever]

Of course we have had hard games. This league is very competitive. We're these not easy games last season when our total in these fixtures was less than 5 points?

 

I really have heard it all now, this place never ceases to amaze me.

 

West Brom A, Sunderland H, Norwich A, West Ham H

 

is as hard as

 

Man City A, Wigan H, Man Utd H, Arsenal A

 

SWF mongery at it's finest.

[Wes Tender]

In the games against the same oppponents last season we got 2 points in a 1-1 draw at home to West Ham, and lost 2-0 at West Brom. losst 1-0 to Sunderland and drew 0-0 at Norwich, so effectively we are 3 pts better off then last season.

 

However it's most unlikely the way we are playing that we'd beat Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City at home this time around

I have the points for each manager over the 20 game span since Pochettino arrived and the corresponding number of games before Adkins departed.

 

Pochettino - Won 5, drew 9, lost 6 = 24 points

Adkins - Won 5, drew 7 lost 8 = 22 points

 

Therefore with the expenditure of £30 million extra and the additional experience of playimg in the top flight, the difference between them thus far is just two points.

 

Mentioning individual matches where one manager won and the other lost works both ways, as Adkins managed to beat Newcastle 2-0, whereas Pochettino lost 4-2, Adkins beat QPR away, whilst Pochettino lost 2-1 at home for example. In many matches where each played the same team the results were the same, although of course there was home advantage favouring one or the other.

Pochettino hasn't yet faced Arsenal, whereas Adkins played him twice, with one creditable draw.

 

Naturally they haven't faced all the same teams twice, but overall they have each played a similar fixture list and the difference between them comes down to just a win instead of a draw, or two extra draws instead of losses.

 

If I've added it all up correctly, Adkins' team scored 6 more goals than Pochettino's, but let in 12 more, although 6 of those came against Arsenal right at the beginning of the season, who Pochettino hasn't played. Pochettino's team has let in one more goal than they've scored, 22, whereas Adkins has a goal difference of -7, but as I say, 6 from Arsenal alone.

 

The next level?

[Giordano]

if you take out the Nowich game and the first half against Sunderland and today we have won every game so far this season and not conceded any goals and would be top of the league.

 

And if you add in that exceptional home win against man city as a "joker" we would be about 4 points clear and picking hotels for our champions league away matches next season. I am going to Rimini tomorrow via Bologna for a week for the Euro squash championships ( my team representing England btw as Squash National Champions)..so will check out a few for if we draw a Turin or Milanese team though im staying right on the coast seafront..plus this October Ive already booked a Relais and Chateaux 5 star place near Porto and hope to get in a match whilst out there in case we get Porto in our Group. Incidentally I think it would be pretentious if we were in Group "A" seeing as its only our first year so id be happy with "E" or "F", you kind of have to show respect for the established names in your first CL season but season after next I'd be livid if we did'nt get into group "A" or at least Group "B".

[Batman]

I really have heard it all now, this place never ceases to amaze me.

 

West Brom A, Sunderland H, Norwich A, West Ham H

 

is as hard as

 

Man City A, Wigan H, Man Utd H, Arsenal A

 

SWF mongery at it's finest.

its not as hard. hence why we have 5 points

even those 4 games last season did not bring us 5 points

 

we also, had let in 14 goals at this point last season.

[Batman]

I have the points for each manager over the 20 game span since Pochettino arrived and the corresponding number of games before Adkins departed.

 

Pochettino - Won 5, drew 9, lost 6 = 24 points

Adkins - Won 5, drew 7 lost 8 = 22 points

 

Therefore with the expenditure of £30 million extra and the additional experience of playimg in the top flight, the difference between them thus far is just two points.

 

Mentioning individual matches where one manager won and the other lost works both ways, as Adkins managed to beat Newcastle 2-0, whereas Pochettino lost 4-2, Adkins beat QPR away, whilst Pochettino lost 2-1 at home for example. In many matches where each played the same team the results were the same, although of course there was home advantage favouring one or the other.

Pochettino hasn't yet faced Arsenal, whereas Adkins played him twice, with one creditable draw.

 

Naturally they haven't faced all the same teams twice, but overall they have each played a similar fixture list and the difference between them comes down to just a win instead of a draw, or two extra draws instead of losses.

 

If I've added it all up correctly, Adkins' team scored 6 more goals than Pochettino's, but let in 12 more, although 6 of those came against Arsenal right at the beginning of the season, who Pochettino hasn't played. Pochettino's team has let in one more goal than they've scored, 22, whereas Adkins has a goal difference of -7, but as I say, 6 from Arsenal alone.

 

The next level?

you must weight this argument by mentioning the magical 10 game leverage that SWF gives. it was like that when we had pardew.

 

10 games

[Wes Tender]

its not as hard. hence why we have 5 points

even those 4 games last season did not bring us 5 points

 

we also, had let in 14 goals at this point last season.

 

Well considering that 6 of them were from playing Arsenal the figures look much worse than they were, especially when we only lost by a goal to both Man City and Man United. But on the flip side, we also scored 5 goals in those matches compared to the solitary two we have managed in four matches against much less illustrious opposition.

[Batman]

Well considering that 6 of them were from playing Arsenal the figures look much worse than they were, especially when we only lost by a goal to both Man City and Man United. But on the flip side, we also scored 5 goals in those matches compared to the solitary two we have managed in four matches against much less illustrious opposition.

 

they are what they are.

we were even worse in the same 4 games we have just had last season

[DanW]

Why aren't we comparing the 5 games we've played this year versus our results against the same teams in the same venues last year?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Why aren't we comparing the 5 games we've played this year versus our results against the same teams in the same venues last year?

 

Last season:

 

WBA away 2-0

Sunderland home 0-1

Norwich away 0-0

Wh home 1-1

 

2 points gd -3

 

This season:

 

WBA away 1-0

Sunderland home 1-1

Norwich away 1-0

Wh home 0-0

 

5 points gd 0

 

Progress if you ask me

[Minsk]

Last season:

 

WBA away 2-0

Sunderland home 0-1

Norwich away 0-0

Wh home 1-1

 

2 points gd -3

 

This season:

 

WBA away 1-0

Sunderland home 1-1

Norwich away 1-0

Wh home 0-0

 

5 points gd 0

 

Progress if you ask me

 

4 of our 5 points have come against the teams currently sitting 19th and 20th in the league.

 

Just saying.........

[Olallana]

4 of our 5 points have come against the teams currently sitting 19th and 20th in the league.

 

Just saying.........

 

Well that´s good. I expect us to be better than those teams. Would be muchworse if we take no points from the ones sitting 19th and 20th imo.