Post Match Reaction: SAINTS 0-0 West Ham

[Turkish]

I think the Osvaldo one was a really good save and a bit harsh on the goalie - he was quick, he got fwd as well as across very quickly and spread himself well - yeah its sort of just chucking yourself but theres a reason some people are better at it than others and its not just luck, Osvaldo hit the target - will certainly feel he could've done more but to me that was still a very good save. Morgans also - the others really a bit meh and should be saved.

 

He did what every good keeper would do and made himself big hoping to get something on it, Osvaldo effectively hit it straight down the middle straight at him, either side of the keeper it's a goal or going to take a superb goal line clearance. It was a bad miss rather than a great save.

[Give it to Ron]

We were much the better team as stats confirmed but our first touch was poor as was Wanyamas passing, but maybe down to conditions . I would have brought on Ramirez for Lallana to try an open them up more. I think Jack Cork deserves a recall for Wanyama now.

 

Thats the point I am making IMO and I watched him closely he wasn't that bad - certainly no worse than Morgan yet I don't see one comment on here about that. Wanyama passed the ball several times to really good positions moving it quickly and positively not backwards and sideways like Morgan was doing yet he gets slated because he is not Cork.

Lallana's touch was awful when put through yet again no-one is calling for him to be dropped!

[Smirking_Saint]

He did what every good keeper would do and made himself big hoping to get something on it, Osvaldo effectively hit it straight down the middle straight at him, either side of the keeper it's a goal or going to take a superb goal line clearance. It was a bad miss rather than a great save.

 

I wouldnt say it was a particularly bad miss or a worldie save either. Jussi spread himself and it caught his leg. Unless Osvaldo got a bit more height in the shot Id have said it was difficult to do a lot more with it.

 

But other than that I think we agree, I thought Boruc made an equal amount of decent saves, Jussi just pipped it. At the end of the day we didnt do enough as we are not quick enough (decisions not necessarily pace) in the final third

[Wes Tender]

Yes and he is very good but playing him wont change anything at all in an attacking sense, if anything Wanyamas better defensively then cork so releases Morgan a bit more as we saw yesterday.

 

Not got anything against cork

 

Do keep up sunshine

 

So Schneiderlin's 5 goals last season must have been long range shots, as Cork's defensive frailties didn't allow him to maraud upfield last season?

 

And as far as I can see comparing Cork with Wanyama, he is better at passing the ball than Wanyama and better at winning it back and generally puts himself about quicker, closing down and intercepting. But if you think that those attributes wouldn't change anything at all, then fair enough.

[Turkish]

I wouldnt say it was a particularly bad miss or a worldie save either. Jussi spread himself and it caught his leg. Unless Osvaldo got a bit more height in the shot Id have said it was difficult to do a lot more with it.

 

But other than that I think we agree, I thought Boruc made an equal amount of decent saves, Jussi just pipped it. At the end of the day we didnt do enough as we are not quick enough (decisions not necessarily pace) in the final third

 

Personally i'd expect a £15m international striker to be putting away chances like that.

[Saint Troy]

genuine question - before wanyama we didn't play so much through one person from the back right? Or did we? I don't really remember exactly how cork or others were used in this sense. It feels a bit to me as though although Victor isn't doing everything flawlessly at the moment but if you give him the ball every single time we move fwd from the back its not always going to work and its going to stand out a bit more than if the load was spread.

 

I think that from what ive seen of wanyama is he may have the ability to actually beat a man a little, not raw pace and flying past but beat someone enough to cause a change in the oppos set up and so enough to change the tempo of an attack - I think in his current role maybe we stifle this possible attacking outlet a bit? Cork behind victor and morgan for me - at the mo I think Lallana misses out in that formation as jrod has the pace - think this may be sensible against a currently strong Liverpool side

[Sour Mash]

My point was cork is out of the side and now people are saying his inclusion will lift us to a new super scoring level despite the fact that we were having the same problem last year and essentially he os a defensive midfielder that isnt as good at winning the ball as VW ?

 

Personally I dont give a toss if we pick Vic or Cork, it wont make much of a difference to me, Vic lets Morg have a longer leash but gives the ball away more, cork needs a man next to him but keeps it better ?!?

 

We are struggling to score, not letting goals in. What we need is changes to the way we play higher up the pitch, not necessarily from a defensive sense.

 

I have noticed you have started following me around a little which is quite sweet.

Jesus, don't flatter yourself. You do come across as a try hard know it all on here though.

[Smirking_Saint]

So Schneiderlin's 5 goals last season must have been long range shots, as Cork's defensive frailties didn't allow him to maraud upfield last season?

 

And as far as I can see comparing Cork with Wanyama, he is better at passing the ball than Wanyama and better at winning it back and generally puts himself about quicker, closing down and intercepting. But if you think that those attributes wouldn't change anything at all, then fair enough.

 

Wanyama is better defensively, cork is better on the ball.

 

Thats pretty much it, so no, it isnt going to change much from an attacking sense. Id also suggest Vic hasnt been as bad as people are making out. In fact none of our performances have been tgat bad, we just seem to dwell on the ball too much in the final third.

 

As I said, I like Cork, I dont dislike him, I dont think he is vastly different to Victor and wont change much. Cork or Victor ? IMO it depends on the opposition, I suspect we will see VW against the bigger, longish ball type teams and Cork against sides when possession is key.

[Smirking_Saint]

Jesus, don't flatter yourself. You do come across as a try hard know it all on here though.

 

Really ? I just give my opinion, its a forum. If your gonna get the hump about it thats your perogative. You can always explain to me why you think Corks going to make such a difference to our goalscoring or just ignore it ?

 

Not entirely sure how I come across as a know it all, I could always act like Im some sort of billy big nuts if that will make you feel a bit more in common ?

[Sour Mash]

Thats the point I am making IMO and I watched him closely he wasn't that bad - certainly no worse than Morgan yet I don't see one comment on here about that. Wanyama passed the ball several times to really good positions moving it quickly and positively not backwards and sideways like Morgan was doing yet he gets slated because he is not Cork.

Lallana's touch was awful when put through yet again no-one is calling for him to be dropped!

I've got no problem with Wanyama's performances for us, the thing I feel is that Cork brought the best out of Schneiderlin last season, Wanyama's partnership doesn't seem to be doing that. Just seems a strange thing to choose to disrupt.

[Smirking_Saint]

Personally i'd expect a £15m international striker to be putting away chances like that.

 

Maybe, personally having spent the money we have spent in the last two years we should be making a better start to the season then we have, and atleast putting the ball away more than we have in the last 9 games.

[warsash saint]

We are not firing on all cylinders, but we are far from being cr@p. A bit of luck and the rub of the green and we would have beaten both sunderland and west ham.

 

That's MP's job and he has to find those tweaks and small changes to make it work, but we are not a million miles away from being a very good team.

 

Lovren looks like an amazing signing.

 

Far too sensible a post for here

[Give it to Ron]

I've got no problem with Wanyama's performances for us, the thing I feel is that Cork brought the best out of Schneiderlin last season, Wanyama's partnership doesn't seem to be doing that. Just seems a strange thing to choose to disrupt.

 

I agree to a point but I tyhink Wanyama has added that steel to midfield that was missing - I would play all three.

[Barry Sanchez]

Maybe, personally having spent the money we have spent in the last two years we should be making a better start to the season then we have, and atleast putting the ball away more than we have in the last 9 games.

 

Smirking, you are beginning to realise, better late than never.

[Wes Tender]

Wanyama is better defensively, cork is better on the ball.

 

Thats pretty much it, so no, it isnt going to change much from an attacking sense. Id also suggest Vic hasnt been as bad as people are making out. In fact none of our performances have been tgat bad, we just seem to dwell on the ball too much in the final third.

 

As I said, I like Cork, I dont dislike him, I dont think he is vastly different to Victor and wont change much. Cork or Victor ? IMO it depends on the opposition, I suspect we will see VW against the bigger, longish ball type teams and Cork against sides when possession is key.

 

In which matches is possession not key? If a side doesn't have the ball, they can't score goals. Our trouble is that we often have better possession stats, but fail to make it count.

[Barry Sanchez]

Wesley, having possession and failing to take advantage of it is our issue and problem not the opposition, and stats mean little anyway, a clappers last refuge.

[Turkish]

Maybe, personally having spent the money we have spent in the last two years we should be making a better start to the season then we have, and atleast putting the ball away more than we have in the last 9 games.

 

Yep, one win, courtesy of a debatable last minute penalty is shocking considering the teams we have played in those games. People keep saying that we'll do better against the better teams but i'm not sure relying on winning against the likes of Chelsea, Man United and City is a good idea.

[Turkish]

Wesley, having possession and failing to take advantage of it is our issue and problem not the opposition, and stats mean little anyway, a clappers last refuge.

 

A bit like Olallanas constant claims that we are doing great because we're having so many shots at goal

[Olallana]

Yep it´s strange that United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and all top teams in every league wins that stat when it´s so obvious a better plan to have fewer shots than your opponent repeatedly.......

 

Yeeez, the top teams in all leagues in Europe dont have a clue.....why do they even bother to shoot if they miss the target or dont score.....they should know that put it in the net or dont bother is the way of winning this game....

[Turkish]

Yep it´s strange that United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and all top teams in every league wins that stat when it´s so obvious a better plan to have fewer shots than your opponent repeatedly.......

 

Yeeez, the top teams in all leagues in Europe dont have a clue.....why do they even bother to shoot if they miss the target or dont score.....they should know that put it in the net or dont bother is the way of winning this game....

 

One win in nine games, which came from a debatable last minute penalty. This, depsite your claims we are playing so much better due to more shots at goal, what am i missing?

[Whitey Grandad]

One win in nine games, which came from a debatable last minute penalty. This, depsite your claims we are playing so much better due to more shots at goal, what am i missing?

 

It matters not that the penalty was debatable. What about the debatable ones that weren't given?

[Wes Tender]

Wesley, having possession and failing to take advantage of it is our issue and problem not the opposition, and stats mean little anyway, a clappers last refuge.

 

That's what I said.

[Turkish]

It matters not that the penalty was debatable. What about the debatable ones that weren't given?

 

Perhaps not, but even so our one win in our last 9 games came due to a last minute penalty. this doesnt sound like "the next level" to me.

[Saint_clark]

Maybe, personally having spent the money we have spent in the last two years we should be making a better start to the season then we have, and atleast putting the ball away more than we have in the last 9 games.

 

If we made a better start than we have we'd be on par with the likes of City, United etc. We're not doing badly.

Imagine how Sunderland must feel with their money spent.

[Olallana]

One win in nine games, which came from a debatable last minute penalty. This, depsite your claims we are playing so much better due to more shots at goal, what am i missing?

 

You might be missing the date of my posts about that?

It was back in march, about 6 months ago.....

 

Tip of the day: Search for "MYTH" and you will find the thread.

[Turkish]

You might be missing the date of my posts about that?

It was back in march, about 6 months ago.....

 

Tip of the day: Search for "MYTH" and you will find the thread.

 

and you've been repeating the mantra ever since. We're still having more shots at goal, we're not winning. Do you still think we are doing so much better?

 

I realise it must be pretty embarassing for you given your passionate defence of MP.

[Olallana]

and you've been repeating the mantra ever since. We're still having more shots at goal, we're not winning. Do you still think we are doing so much better?

 

I realise it must be pretty embarassing for you given your passionate defence of MP.

 

Actually we´ve only have had that in two of our games this year.

 

Embarassing?

Nope I am never embarrassed being a supporter of Southampton FC but from the look of it you might feel that way?

 

I´m not at all concerned about the start of this season, 5-7 points from the first four games looked like the most predictable outcome.

 

And yes I still think we perform/play a lot better now than we were doing under Adkins in PL, the best proof is probably just looking at how teams set up these days when they come to St Marys.

[Turkish]

Actually we´ve only have had that in two of our games this year.

Embarassing?

Nope I am never embarrassed being a supporter of Southampton FC but from the look of it you might feel that way?

 

I´m not at all concerned about the start of this season, 5-7 points from the first four games looked like the most predictable outcome.

 

And yes I still think we perform/play a lot better now than we were doing under Adkins in PL, the best proof is probably just looking at how teams set up these days when they come to St Marys.

 

Which ones were they?

[St Marco]

Wait a second, are people seriously saying we don't look like scoring based on yesterdays game?!

[Convict Colony]

Personally i'd expect a £15m international striker to be putting away chances like that.

 

Thank good we didn't want or could afford Mario Gomez have you seen some of his misses this season for Fiorentina, shocking !

 

Thought Osvaldo was decent and when he had the ball I was at least hopeful he could keep it unlike the rest.

 

If we don't have either a formation change or get gaston in for Liverpool my optimistic limit maybe reached. Purely want gaston in for something different as we are not overly creative and have had significant issues scoring for a while, we just can't keep doing the same thing with the same people, we have 2 great DM's lets just give him a free pass as AM to lose the ball and be frustrating etc but hope his running at defenders creates clear chances for Dani or Rickie.

[DuncanRG]

I thought Osvaldo looked good. Should have scored, but Lallana missed an equally good chance and Lambert and Rodriguez did the same against Sunderland. People miss.

 

There's improvement to be made in the movement and shape of the team, and ironing out the creases that tend to come with those changes and the arrival of new players. Yesterday it was just finishing.

[Convict Colony]

Sky's analysis for what it is worth http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/295721/analysis

[OldNick]

My point was cork is out of the side and now people are saying his inclusion will lift us to a new super scoring level despite the fact that we were having the same problem last year and essentially he os a defensive midfielder that isnt as good at winning the ball as VW ?

 

Personally I dont give a toss if we pick Vic or Cork, it wont make much of a difference to me, Vic lets Morg have a longer leash but gives the ball away more, cork needs a man next to him but keeps it better ?!?

 

We are struggling to score, not letting goals in. What we need is changes to the way we play higher up the pitch, not necessarily from a defensive sense.

 

I have noticed you have started following me around a little which is quite sweet.

dont worry some will come on and Sharp would make a difference. The players like Puncheon, Cork and Sharp become world stars when they dont play. When they do and we dont win it is the players who they replaced who should have played. You should know the rules on this forum, the players that the experts on here want to play, always have blinders when they dont play. They dont miss chances, dont misplace passes or dont tackle, they are all not playing as they are keeping the Barcelona players out of the team

[Sour Mash]

dont worry some will come on and Sharp would make a difference. The players like Puncheon, Cork and Sharp become world stars when they dont play. When they do and we dont win it is the players who they replaced who should have played. You should know the rules on this forum, the players that the experts on here want to play, always have blinders when they dont play. They dont miss chances, dont misplace passes or dont tackle, they are all not playing as they are keeping the Barcelona players out of the team

But Cork was 2nd place in our player of the season last year and rightly lauded for a turn around in our fortunes, Puncheon was pretty popular when he played last year and Sharp hasn't been mentioned on this thread, so your point really doesn't hold much validity.

[shirleysfc]

We created enough chances yesterday, but didn't take them. We created enough chances against Sunderland, but didn't take them.

[OldNick]

But Cork was 2nd place in our player of the season last year and rightly lauded for a turn around in our fortunes, Puncheon was pretty popular when he played last year and Sharp hasn't been mentioned on this thread, so your point really doesn't hold much validity.

I forgot that fans polls had any relevance to teams fortunes. Cork did well last year,but there were loads of threads about Puncheon and his performances. He became more of a hero when he went off for the toilet, perhaps thats what Wanyama etc need to do, it makes their performances more paletable it seems.

[DuncanRG]

Sky's analysis for what it is worth http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/295721/analysis

 

Key quote from that: "Being interchangeable is no bad thing, but unless you have quick transitions in the middle of the field it can leave sides flailing for a target to hit."

[syd_barrett_saint]

Quote from a West Ham fan on a Facebook group some of my hammer mates use: "That Nolan handball...I haven't seen anyone looking that guilty since Michael Le Vell."

[Chez]

We looked at our best last season when we pressed high up the field, yet we don't do it now. Not sure why.

[Olallana]

We looked at our best last season when we pressed high up the field, yet we don't do it now. Not sure why.

 

Cant really press up high against these opponents we´ve faced so far imo.

Did it first half at West Brom and looked very strong, they changed their style in 2nd half and din´t give us that opportunity then.

The letdown was Norwich but they also didn´t play that much on the ground from the back.

 

Sunderland and West Ham came, parked the bus and went hoof for most of 90 minutes, not much to put press on in games like that.

[Olallana]

Which ones were they?

 

You wanted an answer to this "question" apparently....

 

 

I thought that one was retorical, but maybe you dont follow the games as I thought. My mistake.

[Turkish]

You wanted an answer to this "question" apparently....

 

 

I thought that one was retorical, but maybe you dont follow the games as I thought. My mistake.

 

so which were the two games where we had more shots at goal than the opposition?

[shurlock]

Nothing to do with Wanyama or Cork IMO but the movement of the front four who apart from Osvaldo are too static and spread apart. There is very little on for our midfield. Jrod and to some extent AL are the weak links. AL is solvable - he looks much better in a central position; Jrod's form is more concerning.

Edited 16 September, 2013 by shurlock

[Olallana]

so which were the two games where we had more shots at goal than the opposition?

 

Not that hard to find that it´s our two home games, but since you needed to ask twice you might have had problems finding the info?

[Turkish]

Not that hard to find that it´s our two home games, but since you needed to ask twice you might have had problems finding the info?

 

oh no i knew which ones they were, i wanted you to confirm.

 

So just to confirm then, the game where we had less shots at goal than the oppositon we won, the two games where we didn't we failed to win.

 

Not gone very well for you has it.

[Olallana]

oh no i knew which ones they were, i wanted you to confirm.

 

So just to confirm then, the game where we had less shots at goal than the oppositon we won, the two games where we didn't we failed to win.

 

Not gone very well for you has it.

 

So how would you explain that kind of logic of yours to the loss against Norwich then?

 

And the stats are for long term but hey, do as you always does.... Mr "if we disregard the wins then MP´s stats aren´t that good"..

[Turkish]

So how would you explain that kind of logic of yours to the loss against Norwich then?

 

And the stats are for long term but hey, do as you always does.... Mr "if we disregard the wins then MP´s stats aren´t that good"..

 

Which is better, 3 points from 2 games or 2 points from 2 games?

 

Quite simple, if we use your logic and do it based on performances, we finish the season on 38 points and in a relagation battle, if we do it results then we finish on 57 points and near the top 8. Still you keep trotting out your mantra that all that matters when guaging a performance is shots at goal.

[Olallana]

Which is better, 3 points from 2 games or 2 points from 2 games?

 

Quite simple, if we use your logic and do it based on performances, we finish the season on 38 points and in a relagation battle, if we do it results then we finish on 57 points and near the top 8. Still you keep trotting out your mantra that all that matters when guaging a performance is shots at goal.

 

I dont keep trotting anything. You keep referring to it in whatever thread I write in about other things, a bit obsessed are you?

 

And btw, those stats were from 280 games of football, and you know how many of those were about Southampton FC??

5%. So if you really want to make those stats look wrong you have to look at ALL games, not just the Saints one.

 

But I still haven´t got any answer to a question I asked 3-4 times (dont think I´ll get one now either).

Do you think the team with the fewer shots in games have a better chance winning games than the team with more shots in the long run??

[Barry Sanchez]

Pat Condell and his I am offended is very very funny indeed and also quite true.

[Barry Sanchez]

A simple point of lacking chances and quality.