Post Match Reaction: SAINTS 0-0 West Ham

[Batman]

I'm with you on all this and would add a sneaking suspicion that Puncheon would have added something different. We had enough penetration and scoring opportunities and half were wasteful and the other half produced some exceptional saves from Jaaskelainen. There seemed to have been two clear handball penalty shouts and we hit the bar, so because we failed to score any, it looks a lot more worrying that we have had such a poor goals return from open play. It is a worry that Shaw goes off apparently carrying a knock every game, that Lallana also gets substituted when he's doing quite well and that Cork isn't deemed to be as good as Wanyama, or at least good enough to play some games to give Wanyama a kick up the pants to train to keep possession better.

 

West Ham are one of the most cynical teams of dirty cheats in the division and considering how huge some of their players are, it really is amazing how little it takes to have them rolling around on the ground feigning a career threatening injury. Thankfully the ref wasn't always fooled by them, but they had at least a couple of brutal tackles on our players that appeared to be worthy of red cards. So a great result for Cynical Sam and his team of cheating, hoofing thugs, with three key players absent, but two points dropped by us with supposedly our strongest team available and increasingy a worry.

 

For all those consoling themselves with the thought that we are a few points ahead of where we were this stage of last season, it is worth reflecting that we scored 4 goals against the likes of City and United last season, compared to the likes of Norwich, Sunderland, West Brom and West Ham and although we have a much tighter defensive record, we have gone totally off the boil at the other end, despite allegedly strengthening the team.

 

Scoring 4 and getting 0 points is nothing to shout about

[OldNick]

With some on here it seems a player not playing gets godlike status. Punch was ok at best. We created chances and failed to take them,it wasn't about not creating the chance to win the game it was about finishing off the chances we got. Their keeper made some great saves and when we did beat him Reid did a superb header to clear the ball going in, or the post in RL header.

As for Bigsam bemoaning Morgan not being sent off, the tackle by Obrien was worse IMO and more cowardly.that wasn't mentioned

[Window Cleaner]

Was not able to watch the game as usual this week, so first read the write up on the bbc. Gave a pretty positive view on the game from a Saints perspective as we dominate and West Ham are saved by a standout keeper performance.

 

Expected therefore to come on here and read some disappointed but upbeat views about the game.

 

What is the matter with you f-uckers?

 

 

I saw the game and can't believe some of the appraisals. I can only think that our troll population is much larger than we'd think.

Edited 15 September, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[BotleySaint]

On another day we'd have been 2-0 winners. Dominated possession and had the most chances. The keeper was just particularly good today. We did look disjointed coming forward and Ward Prowse made a massive difference with his set piece deliveries. He currently rates better than Ramirez so must be worth at least £15m

[Hodgey]

I worry about Wanyama at home against mid/lower teams, too slow and can't pass, it really affects us putting consistent pressure on a team. This has been a long run of failure to beat average teams at home. Pointing at better results year on year is only applicable if we are confident of beating Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City at home, Plus a point v Arsenal. On the plus side Lovren looks excellent - concerned about total lack of width, we rarely get to the byline (when we do we look dangerous). Must be hugely frustrating for Lambert and Osvaldo with nothing to attack.

[CitySaint]

Both teams set out negatively - nil nil was inevitable, minimal chances and very little creativity. Far too many long balls, we opened up it up second half more but the final ball was league 2 quality and living in Devon I know what that looks like. I've got tickets for the Palace home game and hoping we at least give it a go in that one. Forgetting to get another winger/forward in with pace looks a very costly oversight – especially as Wanyama looks poor - and Jack Cork must feel rather aggrieved because our CM department is dreadful.

 

My ratings:

 

Boruc 7 - Solid, good early save from Maiga and when WHU got through when he wouldn't have seen the offside flag

Clyne 6 - Defensively OK, didn't get forward much

Shaw 6.5 - Got forward more than Clyne, Maiga did him for strength at times but part of his development

Lovren 7.5 - Mr Reliable

Fonte - 7 Tidy enough, second hald distrbution better than first

Wanyama 4- Worked hard but poor man's Carlton Palmer with no first touch, seriously I see better technique at Exeter or Torquay. Saints got mugged by Lennon.

Morgan 4.5 ne of the worst games I've ever seen him have for us and lucky not to be booked at least once. Decent second half effort on goal raised his score

Lallana 4 - Woeful miscontrol when he should have scored when Osvaldo put him in and poor set pieces

J Rod 4- Nice early run and cut back but poor performance after that, frequently mis-controlled and never read the game.

Osvaldo 7 - Should have scored early on but his vision and work rate were first class. Not his fault Lallana and J Rod can't control through balls.

Rickie - 7 Good outlet whenever we used him, which was not enough. Need to get Sinclair, Rowe and Isgrove regularly feeding off him if we must play this negative formation.

 

JWP 7 - Instant improvement over Adam, shame we wasted two great deliveries

Chambers 6 - Solid enough

 

This is pretty much exactly as I saw it

[trousers]

Was not able to watch the game as usual this week, so first read the write up on the bbc. Gave a pretty positive view on the game from a Saints perspective as we dominate and West Ham are saved by a standout keeper performance.

 

Expected therefore to come on here and read some disappointed but upbeat views about the game.

 

What is the matter with you f-uckers?

 

This is the SaintsWeb Forum. We didn't win a game of football. What alternative reaction were you expecting?

[pangy]

Disappointing result considering it was ours for the taking,however West Ham were solid at the back and came for a draw,if not for the post/keeper we would of won 3-0.

They never really troubled us and when they had a sniff we dealt with them.

[Red]

Very poor gamefrom us - yes we had enough chances to win but we were poor!

What happened to our pressing game?? Seems West Ham were much better than us atit – they closed us down early, so we resorted to the long ball far too oftenand simply no good at it – credit where it is due, in defense WH were very good.

WH packed themidfield and pressured our full backs from playing their natural game – much asI hate to admit, it was tactically very good on BFS’s part.

Why we had twoholding midfielders in that game is beyond me – WH were only ever going toscore a very lucky goal. VW was uttercr*p, and gave away the ball more times than I could count – he is a real enigma– outstanding man mountain for the first two games, and complete opposite thenext two. Should have been replaced after the first 30 mins in my view.

Why oh why isJWP not starting – he is the only one providing any decent crosses?? I wouldhave had JWP starting ahead of VW, particularly in home games – why have wegone so risk averse??

Sorry but forme SRL and Ossie cannot be in the same team – thought SRL was poor today, andif MP does insist on playing them together – SRL has to be in the hole, andOssie up front.

Last 20 mins,we should have gone 3 at the back and added JC in midfield and really pushedfor the win – not brave enough. Guess the top 4 / CL project will have to waitfor another year at least.

[OldNick]

This is pretty much exactly as I saw it

it was the first time I have seen Wanyama, and whilst I share some frustration with his passing early on, we still has a presence that instil s some faith in his signing. He is playing in aa faster form of football that he was used to n Scotland. Once he settles he will be fine. JRod was the most frustrating as his control let him down time and again, especially when Osvaldo had caught Collins on the ball and let JRod to go through.

[Joesaint]

Thought we played very very well, really enjoyed the match. Shame we could not score, but that's how it goes sometimes, very wet pitch didn't help.

[Badger]

On another day we'd have been 2-0 winners. Dominated possession and had the most chances. The keeper was just particularly good today. We did look disjointed coming forward and Ward Prowse made a massive difference with his set piece deliveries. He currently rates better than Ramirez so must be worth at least £15m

 

All too often it is "on another day...." Much as it was last season, dominating the first half perhaps, not taking chances, then living to regret it.... At least we forced their goalkeeper to make saves today, very often we dominate without even that.

 

In my view MP will have to chalk up a fews wins, points by the end of October or Nic Nasty will be showing his ruthless streak again. Just a hunch, but for all the nice talk, and plaudits for our play, and those coming through the academy we are probably going to be in limbo rather than pressing up to the next level as was the goal.

[Griffo]

We had a relatively easy start compared to most of the league, and after spending the money we have which was meant to 'push us to the next level' we still can't beat 3 average midtable sides in Sunderland, Norwich and West Ham. Seems like this season will be similar to last. Somewhere between 12-16th I reckon. But on another day we may have won comfortably today. On another note, the atmosphere was f*cking awful.

Feels like we're at the cinema for most of the game.

[The Kraken]

Surprised to see Wanyama coming under the spotlight. True, he was thoroughly poor in the first half but I thought he was excellent in the second half and dominated the midfield.

 

Rodriguez had a bit of a stinker IMO; well, maybe not a stinker but just anonymous. Morgan didn't look at it either; our CM partnership in the first half was over-run and made far too many simple errors. Osvaldo looked bright at times and Rickie did very well. The defence looked fairly solid throughout.

 

A bit of a meh performance all round. 5 goals in the last 10 games tells its own worrying story.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Wanayama has a long, long way to go in proving he's worth what we paid for him.

[OldNick]

All too often it is "on another day...." Much as it was last season, dominating the first half perhaps, not taking chances, then living to regret it.... At least we forced their goalkeeper to make saves today, very often we dominate without even that.

 

In my view MP will have to chalk up a fews wins, points by the end of October or Nic Nasty will be showing his ruthless streak again. Just a hunch, but for all the nice talk, and plaudits for our play, and those coming through the academy we are probably going to be in limbo rather than pressing up to the next level as was the goal.

ithink that we have had problems getting the signings over the line. The better players hold out for other clubs , Coutinho a prime example. Therefore our project has been slowed

[Roger]

I think we are boring to watch at the moment. The pace and thought of our attacks are poor. Haven't seen enough from potch to say that he's better than Adkins and cortese won't be happy at mo I feel.

 

Boruc 6-nothing to do.

Clyne 7-class player.

Fonte 7-improved a lot.

Lovren 8-looks a v good signing.

Shaw 5- not impressed today.

Wanyama 5-improvement on cork?

Morgan 5-poor decisions in final third.

J rod 4-no composure at all or touch.

Osvaldo 6-should have scored.

Lallana 4-terrible touch when thru on goal.

Lambert 6-what's his scoring record for saints in last 15 games?

 

Surely Ramirez would have given us a better chance than ward prowse! Not convinced by the manager.

[Um Bongo]

P.S - Cannot believe O'Brien wasn't sent off for an awful challenge on Lallana - Two footed from behind, Linesman bottled it.

[Wade Garrett]

Lots of knee-jerkers and bandwagon jumpers on here tonight.

[Roger]

Scoring 4 and getting 0 points is nothing to shout about

 

I'm sorry Lallana was pants today.

[Batman]

I'm sorry Lallana was pants today.

 

Eh. Ok

[Wes Tender]

Jack "I don't score" Cork is getting better with every game I see, just what we need when we are lacking goals !!!

 

Cork might not be a goal scorer himself, but our chances of scoring increase with him playing, as he gives the ball away less frequently, wins it back more frequently and gets it forward more quickly than Wanyama. Is it just coincidence that Schneiderlin has been less affective without Cork beside him?

[for_heaven's_Saint]

ithink that we have had problems getting the signings over the line. The better players hold out for other clubs , Coutinho a prime example. Therefore our project has been slowed

 

Regardless of who we have and havent signed, we're scoring less goals and playing less attractive football with the same players (plus additions) that we had under Adkins when we were free scoring at times.

 

Yes, we've conceded a lot less but that's now enough on its own.

[Roger]

Thought we played very very well, really enjoyed the match. Shame we could not score, but that's how it goes sometimes, very wet pitch didn't help.

 

Really???

[Roger]

Regardless of who we have and havent signed, we're scoring less goals and playing less attractive football with the same players (plus additions) that we had under Adkins when we were free scoring at times.

 

Yes, we've conceded a lot less but that's now enough on its own.

 

Spot on!

[Saintru]

Sorry but if we spent 17 mill on a player you have got to score from 5 yards with the keeper already committed, not good enough

[Window Cleaner]

Cork might not be a goal scorer himself, but our chances of scoring increase with him playing, as he gives the ball away less frequently, wins it back more frequently and gets it forward more quickly than Wanyama. Is it just coincidence that Schneiderlin has been less affective without Cork beside him?

 

Wanyama doesn't seem to want to pass to Schneiderlin, still I did cast aspertions on what we could expect in the way of consistency from Wanyama over a long season.

[Badger]

ithink that we have had problems getting the signings over the line. The better players hold out for other clubs , Coutinho a prime example. Therefore our project has been slowed

 

Yes.It appeared that neither Wanyama or Osvaldo really wanted to come to Saints despite the talk since. Makes a mockery of the idea we were bringing in a manager more likely to "attract" bigger names, or exciting continental talent.

[Batman]

Yes.It appeared that neither Wanyama or Osvaldo really wanted to come to Saints despite the talk since. Makes a mockery of the idea we were bringing in a manager more likely to "attract" bigger names, or exciting continental talent.

 

Since when was that the case for MP?

[OldNick]

Regardless of who we have and havent signed, we're scoring less goals and playing less attractive football with the same players (plus additions) that we had under Adkins when we were free scoring at times.

 

Yes, we've conceded a lot less but that's now enough on its own.

We weren't free scoring under NA,(in the PL) we scored more than we are at present but we had lost at home to Wigan at this time last season, and not scoring in that game. Was it because Puncheon was not playing?

[Badger]

Cork might not be a goal scorer himself, but our chances of scoring increase with him playing, as he gives the ball away less frequently, wins it back more frequently and gets it forward more quickly than Wanyama. Is it just coincidence that Schneiderlin has been less affective without Cork beside him?

 

That for me, and most I suspect, was the critical hub of the team last season. No good reason to bugger it up. Add to it, yes, put better players around them etc, but to rip up our most effective platform was a mistake.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Sorry but if we spent 17 mill on a player you have got to score from 5 yards with the keeper already committed, not good enough

 

We didn't spend £17million on anyone.

 

I agree we can pick out individual performances as poor but overall we're not looking like a good, attacking team at the moment. There's no fluidity, no pace in either passing or running with the ball and no cutting edge.

[OldNick]

Sorry but if we spent 17 mill on a player you have got to score from 5 yards with the keeper already committed, not good enough

every striker misses chances. Yes I think he should have scored but the keeper did well

[Roger]

We weren't free scoring under NA,(in the PL) we scored more than we are at present but we had lost at home to Wigan at this time last season, and not scoring in that game. Was it because Puncheon was not playing?

 

Yes but were new to the premier league and learning and then we improved dramatically, when cork came back and lost 2 in 12 when he left without the last 35 million in signings.

[Badger]

Since when was that the case for MP?

 

Was it not touted at the time of his appointment, in particular amongst some of the speculation on here ?

 

Much of the speculation was about his knowledge of Spanish and South American leagues.

[THEVMAN]

I just thought Morgan and big Vic were far to static today and their passing was very slow.

[OldNick]

That for me, and most I suspect, was the critical hub of the team last season. No good reason to bugger it up. Add to it, yes, put better players around them etc, but to rip up our most effective platform was a mistake.

Surely our problem today was not about creating chances or breaking up play, we didn't put the ball away, Cork would not have scored

[S-Clarke]

I just thought Morgan and big Vic were far to static today and their passing was very slow.

 

First half, absolutely. Thought it was the same old, same old slow predictable dross.

 

But 2nd half it was much better. Morgan got forward more, Wanyama was better in possession.

 

No idea why they didn't play like that 1st half though.

[Window Cleaner]

That for me, and most I suspect, was the critical hub of the team last season. No good reason to bugger it up. Add to it, yes, put better players around them etc, but to rip up our most effective platform was a mistake.

 

And yet the clamour was often for a midfield enforcer in the mould of Diamé, so we got one and now we want to go back to our brain over muscle pairing.I'm certainly not anti Wanyama but he's not the top top player many claimed he would be. Still I doubt that going and having a kick about in Botswana or wherever it was has done him any good, players often come back from those games with a complete lack of any sense of rythym to their game. Happens all the time after the ACON.

[OldNick]

Yes but were new to the premier league and learning and then we improved dramatically, when cork came back and lost 2 in 12 when he left without the last 35 million in signings.

well let's not ever try and improve,and get better quality players, lets just stick with Punch and Cork and we will rule the world. I'm not sure Cork was an instant success and know that Punch wasn't. Yes Cork seemed to help us get on an even keel but we have to up our quality to try and move up the league to push for higher positions in the future.

[Saint Billy]

We are looking very average atm which is worrying. 30 million spent and we look worse than last season.

[alpine_saint]

We had a relatively easy start compared to most of the league, and after spending the money we have which was meant to 'push us to the next level' we still can't beat 3 average midtable sides in Sunderland, Norwich and West Ham.

 

This. I think some have forgotten just what a foot-up the fixture list was supposed to give us, probably those very same people that used last seasons opening fixture list as an excuse for our poor start...

[Barry Sanchez]

Realists 15 Clappers 0

[Batman]

This. I think some have forgotten just what a foot-up the fixture list was supposed to give us, probably those very same people that used last seasons opening fixture list as an excuse for our poor start...

 

Foot up?

We have 5 points and sit 11th and not on 0 points and bottom

[Roger]

well let's not ever try and improve,and get better quality players, lets just stick with Punch and Cork and we will rule the world. I'm not sure Cork was an instant success and know that Punch wasn't. Yes Cork seemed to help us get on an even keel but we have to up our quality to try and move up the league to push for higher positions in the future.

 

Try and improve where we needed to add. No evidence wanyama is better. I think punch is a better player than j rod and Lallana tbh. We needed a quick forward and someone better than Lallana and a decent centre back. Lovren is class but not sure about others.

[trousers]

Realists 15 Clappers 0

 

[Wes Tender]

Scoring 4 and getting 0 points is nothing to shout about

 

Well, there we differ. Scoring 4 goals total against both Manchester clubs rates much higher in my estimation than scoring just 2 goals total in four matches against the likes of West Brom, West Ham, Sunderland and Norwich.

 

Last season we were new boys, inexperienced in defence at that level, but scoring freely enough. We have strengthened the defence and gained experience and also strengthened our attack, so increasingly question marks are being asked about Pochettino's selection and tactics.

[OldNick]

Try and improve where we needed to add. No evidence wanyama is better. I think punch is a better player than j rod and Lallana tbh. We needed a quick forward and someone better than Lallana and a decent centre back. Lovren is class but not sure about others.

We needed a decent ball winning player better than what we had. You have to give the player a few more games yet before saying Wanyama is not. I agree his passing was poor in the first half, but he was an intimidating figure in the second half and improved.we will not be bullied with him in the side

[OldNick]

Well, there we differ. Scoring 4 goals total against both Manchester clubs rates much higher in my estimation than scoring just 2 goals total in four matches against the likes of West Brom, West Ham, Sunderland and Norwich.

 

Last season we were new boys, inexperienced in defence at that level, but scoring freely enough. We have strengthened the defence and gained experience and also strengthened our attack, so increasingly question marks are being asked about Pochettino's selection and tactics.

It doesn't matter how many goals you score against those clubs if they score 1more than you, remember Holloway at Blackpool?

[trousers]

@Luke_shaw3: Just to clear the air , I'm not injured , I just had a little bit of cramp