Old Saints Picture - manager gives team-talk in 1949

[Saint-Armstrong]

Southampton manager Bill Dodgin gives instructions to his team in the dressing room in March 1949.

 

[Dellman]

From left to right: Sam Warhurst, Charlie Wayman, Ted Bates, Bill Rochford (I think), Eric Day, Len Wilkins, Ian Black, Bill Ellerington (still alive aged 90+), Eric Webber, Wilf Grant, Joe mallet, George Curtis.

[Lets B Avenue]

I had a much better Subbuteo set than that. With goals and nets and.............

[SW11_Saint]

Yes, Bill Ellierington is indeed alive still. Lives next door to my mum.

[Hamilton Saint]

Great photo!

 

The kit is a bit old-fashioned, though.

[Hockey_saint]

The great Ted Bates stands out (for me at least) a mile in that picture.

[patred44]

From left to right: Sam Warhurst, Charlie Wayman, Ted Bates, Bill Rochford (I think), Eric Day, Len Wilkins, Ian Black, Bill Ellerington (still alive aged 90+), Eric Webber, Wilf Grant, Joe mallet, George Curtis.

 

 

you named the 12 players..

the manager was Sid Cann.

[patred44]

I think Bill Dodgin had already left for Fulham when that photo was taken. Sid was his second in command, and took over the reins as manager in August 1949.

Another thing is Bill Dodgin had jet black hair, and as you can see the manager in that photo has fair hair.

 

Another thing that makes me sure it's Sid is that he was my manager at Wycombe for a couple of years, so I recognised him instantly

[Hatch]

The right full back needs to push up a bit

[PaulSaint]

Didn't we start our Rudi Scacel talks about then. Anyone know if he's signed yet?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think Bill Dodgin had already left for Fulham when that photo was taken. Sid was his second in command, and took over the reins as manager in August 1949.

Another thing is Bill Dodgin had jet black hair, and as you can see the manager in that photo has fair hair.

 

Another thing that makes me sure it's Sid is that he was my manager at Wycombe for a couple of years, so I recognised him instantly

 

 

Nah that is Bill - he left SFC 15 July 1949

[Raging Bull]

Have I missed something, who is parted44?

[sandwichsaint]

The great Ted Bates stands out (for me at least) a mile in that picture.

 

And baring an unnerving similarity to a 1940's SRL?

 

Looks like Bearsy missed this bit out in his recent Life of Rickie biog?

[Dellman]

It must be Bill Dodgin because when he left for Fulham he took Ian Black as well and he is definitely in the pic

[WokingSaint]

I think Bill Dodgin had already left for Fulham when that photo was taken. Sid was his second in command, and took over the reins as manager in August 1949.

Another thing is Bill Dodgin had jet black hair, and as you can see the manager in that photo has fair hair.

 

Another thing that makes me sure it's Sid is that he was my manager at Wycombe for a couple of years, so I recognised him instantly

 

I think it is Sid. I knew him long after this when he had become a car salesman in Wimbledon. I had no idea of his background for ages until someone told me. I gave him my next Saints programme and he was well pleased .

[Fan The Flames]

And baring an unnerving similarity to a 1940's SRL?

 

Looks like Bearsy missed this bit out in his recent Life of Rickie biog?

 

There is a look of the Lambert about him. Good to Saints were at the cutting edge as far back as then.

[patred44]

It must be Bill Dodgin because when he left for Fulham he took Ian Black as well and he is definitely in the pic

 

Even had that photo been taken before Bill Dodgin left, that is Sid Cann giving that tactical talk. It would have come under his remit as assistant manager.

 

This is Bill a photo taken in 1950

 

 

and this is Sid (note the tuft of hair and bald patch at the front of his head) He used to take a lot of ribbing about that, and got the nickname toupee

 

 

now look at the orginal photo! Look at toupee!!!

[Lazlo78]

I doff my hat to those experts on Saints in the late 1940's. Very captivating picture in all its simplicity!

[Ohio Saint]

Sid is pointing at some kind of misshapen midget subbuteo player. Which team member would that represent? OH!! It's the ball!! We has the ball!

[Lazlo78]

Sid is pointing at some kind of misshapen midget subbuteo player. Which team member would that represent?

 

It's Kevin Phillips at the peak of his career...

[Crazy Diamond]

Ear lobes?

[The9]

Nice to see the good old WM in use on the tactics... floor anyway.

[Window Cleaner]

Nice to see the good old WM in use on the tactics... floor anyway.

 

must have expected a couple of sendings off, if you count that there must be a counter behind the coach's foot there are only 20

counters on the pitch.

[The9]

must have expected a couple of sendings off, if you count that there must be a counter behind the coach's foot there are only 20

counters on the pitch.

 

You can see 20, plus there's going to be a GK behind the manager and there should also be an outside right in the lighter colour near his feet - or if that's what you can see, a second centre back/half back, so I reckon that makes 22.

 

You had to decapitate someone to get sent off in those days.

Edited 13 September, 2013 by The9

[Window Cleaner]

You can see 20, plus there's going to be a GK behind the manager and there should also be an outside right in the lighter colour near his feet - or if that's what you can see, a second centre back/half back, so I reckon that makes 22.

 

You had to decapitate someone to get sent off in those days.

 

I assumed that the smaller one that he's pointing to was supposed to be the ball, wrong assumption perhaps. Surprised that there's not a fag in sight though.

[david in sweden]

Nice old momento that my late father would have enjoyed seeing....

 

However, think it's bit doubtful that you should have printed a photo like that....it looks a bit like MP's possible strategy v. Wham on Sunday .......

[david in sweden]

interesting detective work here. (with help of ..IN THAT NUMBER) Season 1948-49.

 

If this is indeed the first teamers at that time, there's " someone " missing. Given that the 12th man in the picture is Sam Warhurst (goalie only upto 1939), then he's there in his capacity as coach.

 

Strangely enough.. Wilf Grant is in the pic, though he didn't play any games after 29 Jan.1949... (due to injury?).

His left wing role was taken by Bill Heaton for the rest of that season, (and both Grant and Heaton had gone by September that year).

 

The rest of the players were the "regular line-up" for that unforgetable season (which was the tragic one, when sitting in top spot 8 points clear at Easter, Wayman got injured and Saints won only one of the last 7 games and failed to get promotion - by one point).

 

Can't think of a reason for a tactical talk (without Heaton)?.. BUT these men were the great post-war players who came so close to glory THREE season in a row, but just failed to win promotion each time.

[The9]

I assumed that the smaller one that he's pointing to was supposed to be the ball, wrong assumption perhaps. Surprised that there's not a fag in sight though.

 

I can see 20 plus the ball ?

[Window Cleaner]

I can see 20 plus the ball ?

 

so can I, add on a hidden goalie and there's still 1 missing, probably behind his shoes though.

[The9]

so can I, add on a hidden goalie and there's still 1 missing, probably behind his shoes though.

 

Yup.

[RonManager]

The strip they're all wearing is a bit formal.