The Y word

[Saint_clark]

I wonder when 'Skate' becomes unacceptable

 

We must respect those who enjoy fish-felatio.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Criminal website laughs in the face of political correctness gone mad.

 

http://www.yidarmy.com/

[Turkish]

Criminal website laughs in the face of political correctness gone mad.

 

http://www.yidarmy.com/

 

In your face do-gooders

[View From The Top]

They were singing Yid Army today.

[Big Bad Bob]

Ah well, it's not just in the UK, now the Native Americans want the 'R' word banned...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24027457

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

They were singing Yid Army today.

 

Well I don't have the stats at hand to prove it, but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Spurs fans are not actually Jewish. Now I'm going out on a limb here, but this might go a long way towards explaining why so many THFC fans are seemingly so relaxed about this matter.

[Turkish]

Well I don't have the stats at hand to prove it, but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Spurs fans are not actually Jewish. Now I'm going out on a limb here, but this might go a long way towards explaining why so many THFC fans are seemingly so relaxed about this matter.

 

So why is anyone bothered about them being called yids by other clubs then?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

So why is anyone bothered about them being called yids by other clubs then?

 

Again the pejorative use of the term 'Yid' is understandably likely to cause offence to Jewish people whether they be football fans or no. Therefore those not interested in offending Jewish people without good reason (aka decent Human beings) would do well to avoid employing that term.

[Turkish]

Again the pejorative use of the term 'Yid' is understandably likely to cause offence to Jewish people whether they be football fans or no. Therefore those not interested in offending Jewish people without good reason (aka decent Human beings) would do well to avoid employing that term.

 

But it's not directed at Jewish people, it's directed at spurs fans. So they are being offended by something they aren't being called.

[View From The Top]

Again the pejorative use of the term 'Yid' is understandably likely to cause offence to Jewish people whether they be football fans or no. Therefore those not interested in offending Jewish people without good reason (aka decent Human beings) would do well to avoid employing that term.

 

The fact that Spurs fans don't use it in a derogatory way & that they have a large Jewish following seems to have passed you by.

 

I know a Jewish D/S up here who has a large "Stafford Yids" flag that he takes to games with his two Jewish sons. He now needs to arrest himself & his kids. Until this subject was raised yesterday at the nippers football training I had no idea he/they were Jewish but they'd always described themselves as Yids.

[Whitey Grandad]

'Tis political correctness gone mad. 'Please don't use this word because somebody might get offended'.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

But it's not directed at Jewish people, it's directed at spurs fans. So they are being offended by something they aren't being called.

 

I'm not quite sure what point you trying to make here - I wonder if you are.

 

Very clearly this situation has only arisen because THFC has (rightly or wrongly) acquired a reputation over the years for being disproportionately popular with the Jewish community. Now some of their fans may be Jewish, many of them won't be of course, but they are all being tarred with the same brush. When the term 'Yid' is directed at the fans of that club - both Jewish and Gentile - that is clearly not intended to be taken in humorous of affectionate way, indeed the crude antisemitic implications are very obvious.

 

You're not stupid, you well know the consequences of antisemitism and the depths it has led Humanity to in the recent past. Now you tell me, is that a experience you feel we could do with repeating?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The fact that Spurs fans don't use it in a derogatory way & that they have a large Jewish following seems to have passed you by.

 

I know a Jewish D/S up here who has a large "Stafford Yids" flag that he takes to games with his two Jewish sons. He now needs to arrest himself & his kids. Until this subject was raised yesterday at the nippers football training I had no idea he/they were Jewish but they'd always described themselves as Yids.

 

Yeah it's an observable phenomenon for those on the receiving end of prejudice to occasionally take possession of a racial/ethnic slur (such as black people and the hateful 'N' word for instance) in a effort to diffuse its power somehow.

 

Q - Does that mean it's a good idea that anyone should be peppering their conversion with that type of language?

 

A - Of course it's not.

[pap]

Ah well, it's not just in the UK, now the Native Americans want the 'R' word banned...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24027457

 

 

 

I am in the US at this very moment. Spent a couple of hours watching NFL with Americans. We discussed both the spurs and Redskins situations. Universal meh.

[Turkish]

I'm not quite sure what point you trying to make here - I wonder if you are.

 

Very clearly this situation has only arisen because THFC has (rightly or wrongly) acquired a reputation over the years for being disproportionately popular with the Jewish community. Now some of their fans may be Jewish, many of them won't be of course, but they are all being tarred with the same brush. When the term 'Yid' is directed at the fans of that club - both Jewish and Gentile - that is clearly not intended to be taken in humorous of affectionate way, indeed the crude antisemitic implications are very obvious.

 

You're not stupid, you well know the consequences of antisemitism and the depths it has led Humanity to in the recent past. Now you tell me, is that a experience you feel we could do with repeating?

 

Its pretty obvious isn't it? The word Yid when chanted by football fans in this context is nothing to do with Jews or anti semitism, its anti Tottenham. Its exactly the same as Skate, Scummer, vermin, Stripey Nigel's and budgies that other clubs use against clubs.

[Sour Mash]

Again the pejorative use of the term 'Yid' is understandably likely to cause offence to Jewish people whether they be football fans or no. Therefore those not interested in offending Jewish people without good reason (aka decent Human beings) would do well to avoid employing that term.

Should a Jewish Spurs fan be allowed to chant "Yids" in support of his team if he wants to? Yes or no?

[Viking Warrior]

Maybe saints will be banned as it is offensive to sinners also will Yankies be banned as well

[Deano6]

Maybe saints will be banned as it is offensive to sinners also will Yankies be banned as well

 

Hopefully, then the Red Sox can dominate!

[St.JonB]

I remember when I went to pantomime + Captain Hook come on there was loads of people in audience giving him anti-semitic abuses, but yet again is just football fans being singled out

 

I hope you told you the audience what you thought of them? It’s important that people stand up to racism where ever they find it. I can imagine the scene with mums and dads giving him anti-Semitic abuse in front of their impressionable children. The ironic thing is that I don’t think Captain Hook is Jewish. He looks more like a Gypo to me.

[Turkish]

Maybe saints will be banned as it is offensive to sinners also will Yankies be banned as well

 

Oh when the saints go marching in is a song with christian roots. I am starting a campaign to ban this as it will offend our non Christian fans.

[Big Bad Bob]

Oh when the saints go marching in is a song with christian roots. I am starting a campaign to ban this as it will offend our non Christian fans.

 

Heaven forfend we don't want to be accused of being sectarian now do we....

[Viking Warrior]

That's the problem big bad bob . Once you get one word or saying banned then pc brigade move onto the next group , word , or chant

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Its pretty obvious isn't it? The word Yid when chanted by football fans in this context is nothing to do with Jews or anti semitism, its anti Tottenham. Its exactly the same as Skate, Scummer, vermin, Stripey Nigel's and budgies that other clubs use against clubs.

 

What is perfectly obvious is that the word 'Yid' is both irremovably connected to Judaism and intended as a insult. It's a million miles away from us calling Pompey fans Skates etc because of the history associated with anti Semitism.

[Sour Mash]

What is perfectly obvious is that the word 'Yid' is both irremovably connected to Judaism and intended as a insult. It's a million miles away from us calling Pompey fans Skates etc because of the history associated with anti Semitism.

Should a Jewish Spurs supporter be banned for chanting "Yids" in support of Spurs at one of their games?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Should a Jewish Spurs supporter be banned for chanting "Yids" in support of Spurs at one of their games?

 

Oh I don't think anybody should employ that type of language at any time. Please note however that I have not suggested that such vile behaviour should be deemed a criminal or civil offence.

 

Now why don't you explain to the forum why you approve of anti sematic language - if that is your view.

[aintforever]

Using the term Yid as an insult is obviously wrong but I don't see anything wrong with the Spurs fans adopting the word. The fact that they are proud of and want to sing about their jewish traditions should be applauded and is the opposite to anti-semitism IMO.

[Sour Mash]

Oh I don't think anybody should employ that type of language at any time. Please note however that I have not suggested that such vile behaviour should be deemed a criminal or civil offence.

 

Now why don't you explain to the forum why you approve of anti sematic language - if that is your view.

So you think a Jewish Spurs' fan, shouting "Yids" to cheer on Spurs, is "anti-semetic"? Either you're on a terrible wind up, or very, very thick.

[hypochondriac]

So you think a Jewish Spurs' fan, shouting "Yids" to cheer on Spurs, is "anti-semetic"? Either you're on a terrible wind up, or very, very thick.

 

TBF he didn't say that he was saying they would be using anti-semetic language and that he doesn't think the word should be used. Same as a black person saying n1gger doesn't make him a racist.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

So you think a Jewish Spurs' fan, shouting "Yids" to cheer on Spurs, is "anti-semetic"? Either you're on a terrible wind up, or very, very thick.

 

You can rest assured that all the opinion's I take the trouble to express on here are genuinely held ones, whether you happen to agree with them or no. As for my lack of intelligence ... well I'll take that 'from whence it comes' shipmate.

 

But should you tire of insults, then please tell me how many Jewish THFC fans do you know for a fact actually engage in this abhorrent behaviour? Precious few I suspect, and doubtless those who do are from the younger element who have little or no personal experience of true Anti Semitism - as countless millions of their less fortune kin certainly have over the centuries.

Edited 17 September, 2013 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Big Bad Bob]

You can rest assured that all the opinion's I take the trouble to express on here are genuinely held ones, whether you happen to agree with them or no. As for my lack of intelligence ... well I'll take that 'from whence it comes' shipmate.

 

But should you tire of insults, then please tell me how many Jewish THFC fans do you know for a fact actually engage in this abhorrent behaviour? Precious few I suspect, and doubtless those who do are from the younger element who have little or no personal experience of true Anti Semitism - as countless millions of their less fortune kin certainly have over the centuries.

 

I don't get the "abhorrent behaviour" bit, as far as I am aware Yid is a shortening of Yiddish, the same as Paki is short for Pakistani, and Scot is short for Scottish. I've been trying to find why Yid is considered anti-Semitic and, the ever reliable, Wikipedia gave me this :-

 

History

 

The earliest mention of the word Yid in print was in The Slang Dictionary published by John Camden Hotten in 1874. Hotten noted that "The Jews use these terms very frequently."^[1]

After World War II, most examples of the word Yid are found in the writing of Jewish authors. These occurrences are usually either attempts to accurately portray antisemitic speech, orself-deprecating Jewish humor. In his 1968 bestseller The Joys of Yiddish, Leo Rosten offers a number of anecdotes from the "Borscht Belt" to illustrate such usage.^[1]

Usage in Yiddish

 

In Yiddish, the word "Yid" Yiddish: ייד is neutral or even complimentary, and in Ashkenazi Yiddish-speaking circles it is frequently used to mean simply "fellow," "chap," "buddy," "mate," etc., with no expressed emphasis on Jewishness (although this may be implied by the intra-Jewish context). Plural is יידן [jidn].

In Yiddish, a polite way to address a fellow Jew whose name one does not know is Reb Yid, meaning "Sir." The Yiddish words yidish or yiddisher (from Middle High German jüdisch) is an adjective derived from the noun Yid, and thus means "Jewish".

 

So from that I get that Yid can be both derogatory and not and that Jews have been using it themselves for years, even before the World Wars.

 

Have you ever seen the Mel Brooks film History of the World Part I, if you ever did I should imagine you would be apoplectic with rage at the amount of self-deprecating Jewish humour contained within! (for the younger listeners Mel Brooks is definitely Jewish and takes the piss out of Jews a fair bit!!).

 

So, I fail to see how the word Yid can be called abhorrent.

 

The hissing of Chelsea and Arsenal fans to, supposedly, emulate the gas chambers is a completely different thing and is vile.

[Sour Mash]

You can rest assured that all the opinion's I take the trouble to express on here are genuinely held ones, whether you happen to agree with them or no. As for my lack of intelligence ... well I'll take that 'from whence it comes' shipmate.

 

But should you tire of insults, then please tell me how many Jewish THFC fans do you know for a fact actually engage in this abhorrent behaviour? Precious few I suspect, and doubtless those who do are from the younger element who have little or no personal experience of true Anti Semitism - as countless millions of their less fortune kin certainly have over the centuries.

I know plenty who do it and will continue to sing it, despite non-Jewish people telling them to stop.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I don't get the "abhorrent behaviour" bit, as far as I am aware Yid is a shortening of Yiddish, the same as Paki is short for Pakistani, and Scot is short for Scottish. I've been trying to find why Yid is considered anti-Semitic ...

 

Oh come off it.

 

I'm well aware of the etymology thanks, but in reality a non Jew doesn't call a Jewish person a 'Yid' in this day and age and intend that to be taken as a warm and friendly form of address, say broadly equivalent to calling a Welshman 'Taffy' or a Scot 'Jock'. To be frank, anyone seriously suggesting such nonsense is either incredibly naive or attempting to mislead.

 

Very obviously the word is loaded with antisemitic meaning, and as we're discussing here its use in a football stadium, the hate filled atmosphere you commonly encounter at football matches is proof of exactly what is in the mind of those aiming that kind of language (and much worse) at THFC fans. Anybody who has ever attended a match where the rivalry between the two sets of fans is intense must know the truth of that.

 

As arguments go this; 'it's okay for me to call a him a Yid because some Jewish people use the word' is to be found at the fatuous end of the spectrum. Some Black people employ the 'N' word in conversation, does that entitle you to call the next Black person you meet in the street a N****r and expect him not to be offended? That is a perfectly fair analogy by the way.

 

You see the problem with accepting that the 'hissing' behavior is vile (and of course it is) but then maintaining that calling someone a 'Yid' is somehow the acceptable face of antisemitism is that there is no acceptable level of antisemitism. History teaches us what lays in store for societies that head down that path - never again.

[View From The Top]

Some people seem to miss the point spectacularly.

[Big Bad Bob]

Oh come off it.

 

I'm well aware of the etymology thanks, but in reality a non Jew doesn't call a Jewish person a 'Yid' in this day and age and intend that to be taken as a warm and friendly form of address, say broadly equivalent to calling a Welshman 'Taffy' or a Scot 'Jock'. To be frank, anyone seriously suggesting such nonsense is either incredibly naive or attempting to mislead.

 

Very obviously the word is loaded with antisemitic meaning, and as we're discussing here its use in a football stadium, the hate filled atmosphere you commonly encounter at football matches is proof of exactly what is in the mind of those aiming that kind of language (and much worse) at THFC fans. Anybody who has ever attended a match where the rivalry between the two sets of fans is intense must know the truth of that.

 

As arguments go this; 'it's okay for me to call a him a Yid because some Jewish people use the word' is to be found at the fatuous end of the spectrum. Some Black people employ the 'N' word in conversation, does that entitle you to call the next Black person you meet in the street a N****r and expect him not to be offended? That is a perfectly fair analogy by the way.

 

You see the problem with accepting that the 'hissing' behavior is vile (and of course it is) but then maintaining that calling someone a 'Yid' is somehow the acceptable face of antisemitism is that there is no acceptable level of antisemitism. History teaches us what lays in store for societies that head down that path - never again.

 

What I guess I'm driving at is your use of the word "abhorrent", quite a powerful and extreme word. What is it about the word Yid that raises these extreme feelings in you? Yid has been in existence and used since well before the holocaust so why is it such a vile word?

 

And why is it fatuous to say that if a person of the Jewish faith can call another a Yid or a black person another black a ****** or a gay person another gay a queer then why can't a non Jew/black/gay do the same? Sauce for the goose and all that!

[Gemmel]

Prime Minister says is fine;

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tottenham-fans-should-not-be-prosecuted-for-yid-chants-david-cameron-wades-into-antisemitism-row-8821574.html

[hypochondriac]

Excellent. So the leader of this country does not consider it an abhorrent word in every case. Good to know.

[bridge too far]

Here's the opinion of a Spurs fan who is Jewish, David Baddiel

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/david-cameron-yid-really-is-race-hate-word

[Sour Mash]

Here's the opinion of a Spurs fan who is Jewish, David Baddiel

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/david-cameron-yid-really-is-race-hate-word

Ha ha, he's not a Spurs fan, he's a well known Chelsea supporter. The lads that I know at Spurs can't stand the bloke.

[Turkish]

Here's the opinion of a Spurs fan who is Jewish, David Baddiel

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/david-cameron-yid-really-is-race-hate-word

 

[bridge too far]

Turkish and Sour Mash in 'failing to understand the basic tenet of the article' shocker

 

 

[Turkish]

Turkish and Sour Mash in 'failing to understand the basic tenet of the article' shocker

 

 

 

BTF in a haste to be offended spectacularly misses the point shocker.

 

[bridge too far]

BTF in a haste to be offended spectacularly misses the point shocker.

 

 

I'm not offended in the slightest. I posted the article in order to further and balance the debate. That doesn't mean I condone or condemn it.

[Turkish]

I'm not offended in the slightest. I posted the article in order to further and balance the debate. That doesn't mean I condone or condemn it.

 

The prime minister v David Baddiel.

 

Great balance.

[bridge too far]

The prime minister v David Baddiel.

 

Great balance.

 

Couldn't agree more - Cameron shouldn't engage in debate with his intellectual superiors. However, I meant the debate on here.

[Sour Mash]

Turkish and Sour Mash in 'failing to understand the basic tenet of the article' shocker

 

 

I think you've failed to understand the basic tenet of the article.

[Turkish]

Couldn't agree more - Cameron shouldn't engage in debate with his intellectual superiors. However, I meant the debate on here.

 

Maybe we should listen to an issue that has been created by a former 'comedian' who is seeking a bit of publicity at the same time as he's trying to get his career back on track. Funny that.

[Barry Sanchez]

What about NWA? Will they simply become with attitude?

[Barry Sanchez]

Maybe we should listen to an issue that has been created by a former 'comedian' who is seeking a bit of publicity at the same time as he's trying to get his career back on track. Funny that.

 

Baddiel like Lenny Henry has never been funny and for years has been trading on his roots, both are as funny as Russ Abbot and Jimmy Tarbuck.

[bridge too far]

Baddiel like Lenny Henry has never been funny and for years has been trading on his roots, both are as funny as Russ Abbot and Jimmy Tarbuck.

 

Have a look at Wiki - he's actually quite clever and, with a mother who escaped the Holocaust, probably has more right than we do to express his views on this topic.

 

But you're right - he's not very good at the comedy malarky.

[Barry Sanchez]

Have a look at Wiki - he's actually quite clever and, with a mother who escaped the Holocaust, probably has more right than we do to express his views on this topic.

 

But you're right - he's not very good at the comedy malarky.

 

Yet another member of the Liberal Elite preaching from above the workers, give me a tory anyday, being a condescending bellend transcends religion.