Our Defensive Record

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Ever since the successive defeats against Newcastle and QPR last season, I've noticed a distinct change in our general match tactics. In general I would summarise it as follows:

 

1. Attacks are very slow and built up to ensure that when men are committed forward we can't be hit on the break

2. Pressing high up the pitch is very circumstantial and not done by default

 

For me this was a clear departure from what Pochettino initially attempted to do, and what we were told were his hallmark tactics at Espanyol. I am going to speculate this was done to stop us conceding so many goals whilst still retaining some goal threat.

 

In the 10 games since that change last season, we only conceded 9 goals (this includes the West Brom game where we conceded 3 which was a nightmare all round).

 

I was curious to see what sort of brand of football we'd play this season but it looks like it is more of the same, and that is reflected by only conceding two goals in three games.

 

However, it has clearly come at the expense of our goal threat. Our football is less expansive and swashbuckling. It is still very fluid but it seems very considered and less 'off the cuff'. There seems to be set patterns and rules to what we do, and our goal threat comes from working the ball and looking to take a chance rather than rushing forward in numbers and using law of averages.

 

What do we think of this approach? There has been lots made of our lack of goals however not so much made about a defence (both individuals and system) that has improved immeasurably from a year ago. We're always 'in' games these days and whilst they aren't as exciting is that the way forward - to remain tight at the back and rely on quality in the final third to take advantage of fewer chances created? Or are the last 13 games reflective of any other change perhaps I haven't picked up on?

[Glasgow_Saint]

Defensively good

 

Attacking poor

[Maggie May]

Nutshell.

[Saint Garrett]

Think we'll see the pressing game a lot more in games against the top sides, but slower against the bottom sides. We need to pick up wins from playing against the less footballing sides, and this isn't going to be done by pressing a team who is then just going to boot it 50 yards up the pitch and completely bypass half our team.

[There when Franny scored]

I agree with the observations in the OP.

 

The recent Tim Vickery Blog contains a quote from a player who played under Sampaoli the Chilean manager who models his teams on Bielsa, the same as MP. I think this is what MP was trying to achieve which is why he does not want traditional wingers who are generally quite restricted in terms of their positional play:

 

'"We are not allowed to be afraid of playing," said Rodriguez. "We always attack with six players and defend with four. The six rotate, keep the ball moving, occupy and create space, and the four wait and close down space to win the ball back. The order of these four is fundamental, as is the disorder of the six." It is straight out of the Bielsa handbook.'

 

Interestingly, this ties in with the recent quote from one of the coaching staff "We don't play in positions. We play from positions."

 

I also think we have departed from the original mantra and certainly against Norwich without Shaw and Clyne (who would normally make up the six attacking players along with the front four) we appeared instead to attack with four and defend with six which is why we were so limited and produced no crosses at all from the by-line.

 

Predictably, our defence has improved greatly while our attacking threat has suffered.

 

I think MP is working towards a more fluid front four (with support from attacking full-backs) that are able to create spaces amongst the opposition without necessarily having to outnumber them thus creating chances and remaining tight defensively. This hasn't really worked as yet from an attacking perspective, but it may take more time (and possibly additional personnel).

 

A couple of further observations / questions:

 

- I'm not sure if Lambert fits into this system although I think he's more adaptable than people give him credit for, just not that mobile.

 

- I think this is why he really likes JWP as I believe he is quoted as saying something like he feels JWP's technical ability allows him to play in any of the midfield or attacking positions (bar the central striker presumably) which I don't agree with as against Sunderland and Norwich he did not look comfortable in the wide role. He was much better when he moved to a central position against Sunderland.

 

It has certainly been an interesting tactical journey so far with MP and at least he has a clear idea that he is trying to implement rather than the sort of trial and error approach we have seen from several previous managers.

[Turkish]

Think we'll see the pressing game a lot more in games against the top sides, but slower against the bottom sides. We need to pick up wins from playing against the less footballing sides, and this isn't going to be done by pressing a team who is then just going to boot it 50 yards up the pitch and completely bypass half our team.

 

How many teams do this?

[alpine_saint]

Not perfect, but dramatically improved over the beginning of last season.

 

A pity the front line have now lost their way. As can be seen by the fact hes getting them and assisting them for England, it aint Rickie's fault, and is most likely to do with managers tactics.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Not perfect, but dramatically improved over the beginning of last season.

 

A pity the front line have now lost their way. As can be seen by the fact hes getting them and assisting them for England, it aint Rickie's fault, and is most likely to do with managers tactics.

 

^ this

 

England international striker

Italy international striker

 

Something is wrong with mopo's tactics if we continue our final 3rd nonsense

 

Nearly 6 months now since we last scored 2 in a league game

 

Longer since we last won at home!!

[dubai_phil]

Good OP

 

Perhaps the missing piece of the jigsaw is the final piece of creativity, the unexpected, the flick...

 

Which is where one would assume a fully fit & firing Gaston would come in.

[alpine_saint]

Good OP

 

Perhaps the missing piece of the jigsaw is the final piece of creativity, the unexpected, the flick...

 

Which is where one would assume a fully fit & firing Gaston would come in.

 

Dont hold your breath.

 

I doubt he will ever come up to expectations now...

[Joensuu]

Was impressed with Ramirez against Sunderland. Seemed to inject energy and focus into the game. Certainly demonstrated that he is suited to helping to break down a resilient defence, in a way that Jay simply can't. That's not having a go at Rodriguez, I simply feel that Jay is suited to free flowing games, either those where we are playing a top team, or those where we are a goal up and the opposition is chasing the game. That gives Jay the space he needs to run into. Against a team who are sitting back Ramirez (and Lallana) offer us much more.

 

Have to say I was impressed by Ramirez after Sunderland. If he keeps playing like that he'll do very well this season.

[Sour Mash]

We're tight at the back, but if you look at our track record since having Shaw and Cork back in the team last season, our defensive record hasn't been too bad at all.

 

Plus the OP speaks of a change after the QPR and Newcastle matches, but MP had only been in charge for a few games at that point, hard to see too many clear patterns by that point and we followed up those defeats with wins against Liverpool and Chelsea, games which had tons of high pressing in, so I think it's been more of a gradual shift to a more cautious approach.

[badgerx16]

Nearly 6 months now since we last scored 2 in a league game

 

Longer since we last won at home!!

 

I hope that is 'tongue in cheek' - it's only 4 home games since we beat Chelsea, ( 3 draws & 1 defeat ), which was the game immediately before we scored 2 at Reading.

[The9]

How many teams do this?

 

I should think all of them, if they watch any video of the second half of last season.

 

I'm not sure I agree that our build up is slower, I think we've become much, MUCH more direct and give the ball away a lot more often from longer passing rather than keeping possession - but by hitting early balls we're only conceding possession when our defence and midfield are still goalside of the ball, rather than pushing numbers forward and getting done with only the CBs in our half, so we're less likely to concede.

 

We didn't press ALL the time even in Pochettino's early days, we only managed it for 45 minutes against Wigan away and we barely did it at all at home to Spurs last season. It's fair to say the amount of high-pitch pressing has dropped off though.

 

I might stay sober on Sunday so I can pay a bit more attention to what Schneiderlin and Wanyama are doing too, cos so far it's looked like Wanyama just likes whacking long balls to opposing defenders and Schneiderlin keeps getting asked to play up front, and that CAN'T be right ?

[The9]

Nearly 6 months now since we last scored 2 in a league game

 

Slightly impacted by not playing any matches at home in the months of June, July and only one in May and August.

[CB Saint]

Our defensive record would improve further if we trained our physios to do this

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24029055

[Turkish]

I should think all of them, if they watch any video of the second half of last season.

 

I'm not sure I agree that our build up is slower, I think we've become much, MUCH more direct and give the ball away a lot more often from longer passing rather than keeping possession - but by hitting early balls we're only conceding possession when our defence and midfield are still goalside of the ball, rather than pushing numbers forward and getting done with only the CBs in our half, so we're less likely to concede.

 

We didn't press ALL the time even in Pochettino's early days, we only managed it for 45 minutes against Wigan away and we barely did it at all at home to Spurs last season. It's fair to say the amount of high-pitch pressing has dropped off though.

 

I might stay sober on Sunday so I can pay a bit more attention to what Schneiderlin and Wanyama are doing too, cos so far it's looked like Wanyama just likes whacking long balls to opposing defenders and Schneiderlin keeps getting asked to play up front, and that CAN'T be right ?

 

I meant how many teams that we play just boot it 50 yards and by pass our team.

 

There seems to be this misconception on here that we are some incredible free flowing attacking side playing brilliant expansive football, 5 goals in 9 games suggests othewise

[S-Clarke]

Our defensive record would improve further if we trained our physios to do this

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24029055

 

That's brilliant!

 

I can't believe they have to appeal to get the result overturned..!!!!!

[Mr X]

Our defensive record would improve further if we trained our physios to do this

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24029055

 

 

it would also improve if we bothered to put someone on the goal line if you look at the goals we conceded

[Saint_John]

In the last 7 AWAY pl games we have only conceded 3 goals ALL from shots OUTSIDE the area (spurs - bale 25yd special from their only real attempt on goal; sunderland - 20 yd shot that hoovald deflected in from the corner of the box and redman special that would have beaten 99% of gks). The defence is working really well as a unit at the moment we just need to take one of the 3 (or so) very good chances we are making when the score is 0-0 and then everyone will/can relax.