Strikes on the horizon

[Batman]

Which public sector professions did you have in mind? Name the shirkers!!

 

I know of a few nurses who can't wait to strike

Despite earning over £800 for working bank holiday Monday

[sotonjoe]

My missus is a Teacher, she got a 1% pay rise this year (on top of her regular pay rise due to going up a experience level). Last time they had strikes (December 2011 I think) she went Christmas shopping in Winchester and bumped into loads of other teachers doing the same thing.

 

BTW - being a Teacher is a seriously hard job, hugely pressurised and hard work often goes unappreciated.... No need to strike though IMO.

 

This says more about your missus than it does about teachers. It's disappointing that someone of her character is in the profession but hopefully she'll lose her job if she shows that sort of attitude on a day to day basis. When I strike, I do it to attend rallies and support the cause. Behaving like your missus and taking a day off is the lowest of the low. You really should be utterly ashamed of her.

[JackanorySFC]

The legislation on strike ballots and striking in general make it a pretty lame tool, in general, to settle a dispute.

 

Personally, my blood boils more over those City types who pushed the country to near bankruptcy, and continue to trouser undeserved lucrative bonuses, than those on the opposite end of the pay scale looking to improve their lot.

 

Have you ever met a "city type"? I know a few, they earn mega bonuses paid based on the PROFITS they make their clients/ trading company. They are also, by a long long way, the hardest working people I know (I'm good friends with a intensive care nurse, my misses is a teacher and know plenty of engineers, scientists etc). Never take holidays, work 16-18 hour days, miss their kids growing up but tell themselves they will retire at 40 (which I personally doubt, and even if they do I expect their kids will resent them anyway) and live under extreme pressure.

 

You need to understand that bankers that lose mony lose their jobs. It really is that simple, the idea of bankers getting any more than a donut when they've lost clients money is unbelievibly nieve. Anyway, you want a bogeyman to blame so knock yourself out pal.

[JackanorySFC]

This says more about your missus than it does about teachers. It's disappointing that someone of her character is in the profession but hopefully she'll lose her job if she shows that sort of attitude on a day to day basis. When I strike, I do it to attend rallies and support the cause. Behaving like your missus and taking a day off is the lowest of the low. You really should be utterly ashamed of her.

 

Not really, she disagreed with the strike as she appreciates having a job and a guaranteed pay rise every year along with a decent pension. She had no choice, her school shut down for the day, leaving parents across Hampshire having to take time off work hitting the economy. So again, the school shut down, she disagreed so did our Christmas shopping and saw loads of other teachers and admin staff in Winchester doing exactly the same thing.

 

I'm proud of her, on a rare day where she wasn't dealing with hideous beurocracy, horrible kids, worse parents and a system obsessed with turning C/D students into B/C students, ignoring the gifted kids, she could have sat on her a*** all day but instead saved me a job and went into Winch sorting all our shopping, as I hate Christmas shopping!

[Saint-Fred]

oops accidently wiped and can't be bothered to re type

Edited 7 September, 2013 by Saint-Fred

[buctootim]

You need to understand that bankers that lose mony lose their jobs. It really is that simple, the idea of bankers getting any more than a donut when they've lost clients money is unbelievibly nieve. Anyway, you want a bogeyman to blame so knock yourself out pal.

 

Actually the naivety is all yours. Bonuses are paid based on the assessed value of an asset at year end - and the assessment of value is often done using a convention set up by the bankers colleagues and friends who are paid by the same reward system. Its how you end up with seemingly none stop ever increasing asset prices - until suddenly, years later, it turns out they were worthless heaps of junk after all - by which time the bankers have gathered their salaries and bonuses and moved on to another job.

 

We havent heard a post about how wonderful Rupert Murdoch is for society for a while. Please entertain us again.

[solentstars]

Actually the naivety is all yours. Bonuses are paid based on the assessed value of an asset at year end - and the assessment of value is often done using a convention set up by the bankers colleagues and friends who are paid by the same reward system. Its how you end up with seemingly none stop ever increasing asset prices - until suddenly, years later, it turns out they were worthless heaps of junk after all - by which time the bankers have gathered their salaries and bonuses and moved on to another job.

 

We havent heard a post about how wonderful Rupert Murdoch is for society for a while. Please entertain us again.

Got to agree and reading the fantasy about bankers it sounds like a dream world posting. engineers and scientists I respect and have worked with loads of engineers and I never knew any not to have holidays because by law you have to, and I expect his teacher wife prefers teaching gifted kids has its easier for her .I know of kids who have been written of has failures by so called lazy teachers and gone to other schools and ended up going to university because the teachers were very good.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Edited 7 September, 2013 by solentstars

[JackanorySFC]

Actually the naivety is all yours. Bonuses are paid based on the assessed value of an asset at year end - and the assessment of value is often done using a convention set up by the bankers colleagues and friends who are paid by the same reward system. Its how you end up with seemingly none stop ever increasing asset prices - until suddenly, years later, it turns out they were worthless heaps of junk after all - by which time the bankers have gathered their salaries and bonuses and moved on to another job.

 

We havent heard a post about how wonderful Rupert Murdoch is for society for a while. Please entertain us again.

 

Lol, seems I have a stalker, however for the record:

 

Murdoch is an excellent employer that rewards News Corp's thousands of tax paying UK staff well and offers market leading commercial products that no one is forced to buy.

 

Just wondering, why since 2008 have the traders, fund managers and brokers I know earns less each year since 2008, perfectly in line with their falling profits/ earnings? Do you know a single City worker that has lost their business money and kept their job? Seriously? I don't. Although tbf this year is the first when things are looking up, City very confident right now it seems. Which is good news for the au pairs, gardeners, nannies and cleaners they employ.

[buctootim]

Lol, seems I have a stalker, however for the record:

 

Murdoch is an excellent employer that rewards News Corp's thousands of tax paying UK staff well and offers market leading commercial products that no one is forced to buy.

 

Just wondering, why since 2008 have the traders, fund managers and brokers I know earns less each year since 2008, perfectly in line with their falling profits/ earnings? Do you know a single City worker that has lost their business money and kept their job? Seriously? I don't. Although tbf this year is the first when things are looking up, City very confident right now it seems. Which is good news for the au pairs, gardeners, nannies and cleaners they employ.

 

Not stalking, simply that people remember spectacular and awful car crashes they have seen and read.

 

Anyway it seems you are one side of the argument and the G20 and the rest of us are on the other. Its why there are global plans to firewall the high risk casino banking from the systemically important retail banks and why the G20 have agreed to implement plans to defer bonuses until the real, as opposed to temporary, value of assets and trades is seen - possibly up to 10 years later as proposed by Andrew Tyrie chair of the Parliamentary Committee on Banking Standards.

Edited 7 September, 2013 by buctootim

[JackanorySFC]

Got to agree and reading the fantasy about bankers it sounds like a dream world posting. engineers and scientists I respect and have worked with loads of engineers and I never knew any not to have holidays because by law you have to, and I expect his teacher wife prefers teaching gifted kids has its easier for her .I know of kids who have been written of has failures by so called lazy teachers and gone to other schools and ended up going to university because the teachers were very good.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

Bang out of order and totally wrong. Gifted children are far harder to teach, as by definition (you clearly weren't a gifted child or you would have noticed this) they require more work and longer, more detailed lesson plans and 1-2-1 time.

 

It's not just the top kids that miss out but also the bottom due to Schools obsession with C+ grades, teachers are directed to focus on the borderline kids. However, most decent teachers use their own time to help the lower achievers (despite often difficult home environments and attitudes) and enhance the most gifted. Teachers are amazing, hard working people. As are nurses, engineers, scientists and other people that all work far far harder than me with more stress and responsibility. Just a simple fact that the City workers I know work way harder than them, I couldn't do that but I'm grateful they do as each of their tax contributions amount to more than mine and 10 Teachers contributions. That's just a fact.

[JackanorySFC]

Not stalking, simply that people remember spectacular and awful car crashes they have seen and read.

 

Keep digging weirdo....

[Verbal]

Have you ever met a "city type"? I know a few, they earn mega bonuses paid based on the PROFITS they make their clients/ trading company. They are also, by a long long way, the hardest working people I know (I'm good friends with a intensive care nurse, my misses is a teacher and know plenty of engineers, scientists etc). Never take holidays, work 16-18 hour days, miss their kids growing up but tell themselves they will retire at 40 (which I personally doubt, and even if they do I expect their kids will resent them anyway) and live under extreme pressure.

 

You need to understand that bankers that lose mony lose their jobs. It really is that simple, the idea of bankers getting any more than a donut when they've lost clients money is unbelievibly nieve. Anyway, you want a bogeyman to blame so knock yourself out pal.

 

So you think that the bankers who brought their own companies to their knees and dragged entire national economies down with them were managing "clients"? What a quaintly old-fashioned idea that is! If, as you claim, you know "a few city-types", and they were involved in the sequence of events that led to the credit crunch and the bail-outs, ask them how they actually work (assuming they are still in work).

 

It really isn't "that simple".

[JackanorySFC]

So you think that the bankers who brought their own companies to their knees and dragged entire national economies down with them were managing "clients"? What a quaintly old-fashioned idea that is! If, as you claim, you know "a few city-types", and they were involved in the sequence of events that led to the credit crunch and the bail-outs, ask them how they actually work (assuming they are still in work).

 

It really isn't "that simple".

 

I'm only talking abut the chaps I know. A couple of front office brokers, a fund manager and one that does something incredibly complicated with pensions acquisitions for HSBC that I don't understand despite him explaining it to me 5 or 6 times.

 

Don't know the big hitters that dictate strategy I'm afraid my friend, just the fellas that put the hours in. I'm glad you mentioned that though, as people like he chap I quoted clearly don't understand the different roles Finance Sector workers do, instead ignorantly labelling them all "City types". The CEO's and Exec Board members of RBS, Northern Rock, HBOS, Lehman brothers, the other failed banks and the morons in the Labour cabinet that encouraged the risk taking should certainly be held accountable for what they did. Any right minded individual would agree with that

[shurlock]

I'm only talking abut the chaps I know. A couple of front office brokers, a fund manager and one that does something incredibly complicated with pensions acquisitions for HSBC that I don't understand despite him explaining it to me 5 or 6 times.

 

Don't know the big hitters that dictate strategy I'm afraid my friend, just the fellas that put the hours in. I'm glad you mentioned that though, as people like he chap I quoted clearly don't understand the different roles Finance Sector workers do, instead ignorantly labelling them all "City types". The CEO's and Exec Board members of RBS, Northern Rock, HBOS, Lehman brothers, the other failed banks and the morons in the Labour cabinet that encouraged the risk taking should certainly be held accountable for what they did. Any right minded individual would agree with that

 

Large parts of the City are an overpriced marketing outfit - we're not talking about blowing up the system, one-off events but day to day business - fund managers who charge high fees and create unnecessary products when the vast majority can't beat the market on a consistent basis. It's a suckers game - that's why insiders will put their money in indexes for many, though clearly not all, activities.

[Verbal]

I'm only talking abut the chaps I know. A couple of front office brokers, a fund manager and one that does something incredibly complicated with pensions acquisitions for HSBC that I don't understand despite him explaining it to me 5 or 6 times.

 

Don't know the big hitters that dictate strategy I'm afraid my friend, just the fellas that put the hours in. I'm glad you mentioned that though, as people like he chap I quoted clearly don't understand the different roles Finance Sector workers do, instead ignorantly labelling them all "City types". The CEO's and Exec Board members of RBS, Northern Rock, HBOS, Lehman brothers, the other failed banks and the morons in the Labour cabinet that encouraged the risk taking should certainly be held accountable for what they did. Any right minded individual would agree with that

 

The "chap" you quoted, Wade Garrett, was perfectly correct in singling out "those city types" who virtually destroyed the banking system, and among whom not one ended up in jail. He didn't label everyone in banking a "city type". So I simply don't understand your criticism.

 

As for "morons" in the Labour government, it's clear that both Labour and the Tories wanted laxer financial regulation as a way of boosting the City's international standing - and the process of deregulation has been going on since the Big Bang in the eighties, a Thatcher initiative.

 

You only have to drive around the bits of London now owned by the City - notably around Fenchurch Street and Liverpool Street to appreciate the colossal power the City has. Its power is not only undiminished by the credit crunch and the recession; it has been a critical lever in an unprecedented redistribution of wealth from poor to rich in this country.

[trousers]

...

Edited 7 September, 2013 by trousers

[Grey Crab]

When will these people accept it is not the 1970s anymore.

 

Ironic, given that every opinion on this thread is from a throwback.

[Grey Crab]

When public sector workers go on strike they are being c*nts for a cause they believe in.

 

You lot complaining about it are just c*nts.

[saintfully]

I know of a few nurses who can't wait to strike

Despite earning over £800 for working bank holiday Monday

 

Sounds like nursing is the job for you then. Just think you could increase your pay by ~£5000 pa. just by working bank holidays. Go for it - you'd be directly helping people too!!

[aintforever]

When public sector workers go on strike they are being c*nts for a cause they believe in.

 

You lot complaining about it are just c*nts.

 

I think any annoyance about teachers striking goes out the window when you see some c*nt sticking up for the bankers.

[solentstars]

I think any annoyance about teachers striking goes out the window when you see some c*nt sticking up for the bankers.

 

Agree when will some people realises the 1980s decade of excess greed and me me me are over

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[teamsaint]

corporate profits are at an all time high.

Directors pay compared to the general workforce is at an all time high.

Corporate tax take is plummeting.

There is money in the big private sector firms for pay rises.

And the country needs to keep its key public sector staff motived.

 

Join the race to the bottom if you must.

Have fun when you are there.

[Whitey Grandad]

corporate profits are at an all time high.

Corporate tax take is plummeting.

.

 

These two comments are mutually exclusive.

[Winnersaint]

I'm a teacher, I'm not going to be striking even though NAS/UWT for 33 years. Most of the recent public sector pension and conditions of service changes that are being argued about will have feck all effect on me, but it's more about the message it sends to young people. I get all that stuff about bankers and city types, but my day to day work is with vulnerable teenagers at risk of exclusion, with low self-esteem or with negative attitudes to education. It seems to me I have to not strike, because it is about them and not about me, a sentiment a number of my colleagues would do well to remember.

[LGTL]

I'm a teacher, I'm not going to be striking even though NAS/UWT for 33 years. Most of the recent public sector pension and conditions of service changes that are being argued about will have feck all effect on me, but it's more about the message it sends to young people. I get all that stuff about bankers and city types, but my day to day work is with vulnerable teenagers at risk of exclusion, with low self-esteem or with negative attitudes to education. It seems to me I have to not strike, because it is about them and not about me, a sentiment a number of my colleagues would do well to remember.

 

Easy to say when, as you said in your own words, it has "feck all effect on me".

[teamsaint]

These two comments are mutually exclusive.

 

Well I can figure it out, so I'm sure you can.

 

Here's a clue.

Tax avoidance/evasion.

[Whitey Grandad]

Well I can figure it out, so I'm sure you can.

 

Here's a clue.

Tax avoidance/evasion.

 

Evasion is illegal. If there's a profit then you'll pay tax on it.

[aintforever]

Evasion is illegal. If there's a profit then you'll pay tax on it.

 

If only that was true

[Johnny Bognor]

Which public sector professions did you have in mind? Name the shirkers!!

 

It would be quicker if you could tell me which ones are hard done by, compared to low paid private sector workers.

 

It won't be a long list.

[bridge too far]

It would be quicker if you could tell me which ones are hard done by, compared to low paid private sector workers.

 

It won't be a long list.

 

I need to remind some people that many of the now low paid private sector workers were, in fact, low paid public sector workers TUPEd out when public sector work was put out to tender. It often followed that those public sector workers who were members of various unions were 'encouraged' to forego their union membership by their private sector employers.

'

I don't understand why people criticise unions for looking after the interests of their members when the private sector has employer 'unions' representing the employers' interests. Some of those employer interest groups indulge in membership of dubious organisations such as the old Economic League (I can't remember its 'new' title). And employer organisations come together under the umbrella organisations e.g. Federation of Small Businesses, Institute of Directors, Confederation of British Industry etc - a rough match for the TUC. Both 'sides' recognise that there's strength in numbers.

Edited 8 September, 2013 by bridge too far

[Viking Warrior]

There are different standards of unions, union officials and shop stewards

 

There are one or two officials who you can discuss matters with in this difficult time and we look fr a pragmatic approach to resolutions . There are a number who become shop stewards , because they have a gripe against managers and want to take managers and employers on . There are another group who have not a clue and throw claims and accusations about as if it were cinfetti. They have been represented by unions in the past but did not like the outcome of their issues despite what their regional officers or local officers advised them off . They have become union reps and we are heading towards very difficult times and because if their attitudes we could well a return to further industrial unrest . I could be more specific but not on this occassion.

 

And the final concern I have is you can get agreement of a long standing dispute amongst three unions and with the help of ACAS . They go to ballot and then one of the unions suddenly renegades on the agreement . Much to the disgust of the other unions involved .

 

It's about working together while both sides will disagree from time to time . It's this undercurrent of certain elements of trade unionism that want a return to full scale industrial unrest that worries me the most and the likely loss of even more jobs

[bridge too far]

What interests me VW is the way Trade Unionism works in Germany. From what I understand it's almost expected, by employers, that the workforce will be unionised. The unions have seats on the boards of companies and there's great rapprochement between both 'sides' that works to everyone's advantage.

 

It's all very well criticising some unions but some employers also need to be held to account - as you no doubt well know.

[Johnny Bognor]

I need to remind some people that many of the now low paid private sector workers were, in fact, low paid public sector workers TUPEd out when public sector work was put out to tender. It often followed that those public sector workers who were members of various unions were 'encouraged' to forego their union membership by their private sector employers.

 

The vast majority are traditional private sector businesses much like those in retail, catering, hospitality and other small labour intensive businesses. Millions are employed in these sectors without representation. The unionised public sector don't know they've been born.

[bridge too far]

The vast majority are traditional private sector businesses much like those in retail, catering, hospitality and other small labour intensive businesses. Millions are employed in these sectors without representation. The unionised public sector don't know they've been born.

 

Many of those in catering and cleaning used to be public sector workers in hospitals and schools but were 'taken over' by private companies such as Sodexo. In theory, there's nothing to stop low paid workers in the private sector from joining unions (think USDAW) but there are often employers who aggressively discourage this.

[pap]

I have sympathy for them but plenty of people have spent years cultivating their careers and don't have the option of striking. Most people I have spoke to seem to be working twice as hard for effectively the same money.

 

The country is skint, people accept that there has to be cut backs but as soon as certain people feel a little hard done by their toys come out the pram. If teachers are unhappy with their deal I'm pretty sure there are plenty of graduates willing to do the job.

 

I wouldn't be. Teaching pay is poor until you've built up the years. Ok, so there are certain people who want to become teachers no matter what. This probably won't deter them. Anyone looking at teaching as an option amongst many may pick a different option.

 

We don't have enough teaching resource as it is. There are massive problems with science, maths and computing - which happen to areas that the UK economy is relying on. Given all that, I'm wondering how pretty your certainty is on this matter.

[Johnny Bognor]

Many of those in catering and cleaning used to be public sector workers in hospitals and schools but were 'taken over' by private companies such as Sodexo. In theory, there's nothing to stop low paid workers in the private sector from joining unions (think USDAW) but there are often employers who aggressively discourage this.

 

That is a really poor example BTF. Rather than the "nasty/evil" private sector company taking over catering in UK schools, I read it as the political party (ironically set up by the unions) outsourced schools catering to Sodexo in 2007. That's right, by proxy, the unions screwed over the very people they were supposed to be protecting. You couldn't make it up.

Edited 9 September, 2013 by Johnny Bognor

[Verbal]

I know of a few nurses who can't wait to strike

Despite earning over £800 for working bank holiday Monday

 

IF that were true, it must have been either a special one-ff payment or they were agency nurses or more likely both. That figure nowhere near reflects the usual earnings of an NHS nurse - unless you have evidence that nurses earn £208,0000 a year based on that daily rate.

[bridge too far]

That is a really poor example BTF. Rather than the "nasty/evil" private sector company taking over catering in UK schools, I read it as the political party (ironically set up by the unions) outsourced schools catering to Sodexo in 2007. That's right, by proxy, the unions screwed over the very people they were supposed to be protecting. You couldn't make it up.

 

No you're wrong there I think JB. I worked on a number of PFI schemes from 1994 (John Major's government) until 2002 and I can assure you that many in house catering, cleaning and other hard and soft FMs were handed over as part of the PFI scheme (the PFI contractor comprising a number of construction companies / financial institutions / hospitality firms). This was often to the detriment of the service. I had to take my mother to QA on a number of occasions in the late 90s / early 2000s and I was struck by the deterioration in service in the hospital restaurant for example - it had been taken over by a private provider as a result of QA's PFI scheme. I saw the same thing happen in Oxford hospitals following their PFI (that I worked on ).

 

And outsourcing of non clinical services in the NHS began in the early 90s - the heyday of 'competitive tendering'.

[bridge too far]

IF that were true, it must have been either a special one-ff payment or they were agency nurses or more likely both. That figure nowhere near reflects the usual earnings of an NHS nurse - unless you have evidence that nurses earn £208,0000 a year based on that daily rate.

 

Jamie has two bees in his bonnet (helmet?) One is free laptops for families on benefits and the other is the astronomical rates paid to agency nurses.

[trousers]

No you're wrong there I think JB. I worked on a number of PFI schemes from 1994 (John Major's government) until 2002 and I can assure you that many in house catering, cleaning and other hard and soft FMs were handed over as part of the PFI scheme (the PFI contractor comprising a number of construction companies / financial institutions / hospitality firms). This was often to the detriment of the service. I had to take my mother to QA on a number of occasions in the late 90s / early 2000s and I was struck by the deterioration in service in the hospital restaurant for example - it had been taken over by a private provider as a result of QA's PFI scheme. I saw the same thing happen in Oxford hospitals following their PFI (that I worked on ).

 

And outsourcing of non clinical services in the NHS began in the early 90s - the heyday of 'competitive tendering'.

 

It's not outsourcing, per se, that leads to service deterioration, rather its the poor contract negotiations, monitoring and enforcement by public sector 'managers' overseeing the whole thing.

[Johnny Bognor]

No you're wrong there I think JB. I worked on a number of PFI schemes from 1994 (John Major's government) until 2002 and I can assure you that many in house catering, cleaning and other hard and soft FMs were handed over as part of the PFI scheme (the PFI contractor comprising a number of construction companies / financial institutions / hospitality firms). This was often to the detriment of the service. I had to take my mother to QA on a number of occasions in the late 90s / early 2000s and I was struck by the deterioration in service in the hospital restaurant for example - it had been taken over by a private provider as a result of QA's PFI scheme. I saw the same thing happen in Oxford hospitals following their PFI (that I worked on ).

 

And outsourcing of non clinical services in the NHS began in the early 90s - the heyday of 'competitive tendering'.

 

Without getting into symantecs, I am happy to concede that some (and I mean some), public sector workers are more vulnerable than others (i.e those lower paid unskilled public sector workers), but these aside, the rest are wrapped up in public funded bundles of cotton wool.

[bridge too far]

It's not outsourcing, per se, that leads to service deterioration, rather its the poor contract negotiations, monitoring and enforcement by public sector 'managers' overseeing the whole thing.

 

I agree with this in part. However, as ever in the public sector, 'managers' ended up doing the monitoring and enforcement in addition to their existing jobs. In the past, ward sisters and service leads for e.g. catering, cleaning, managed many of these services. Post PFI rigid KPIs were introduced and inexperienced staff were tasked with managing these. I can remember setting up a huge database of service failures, compensation events etc. etc. - how much the provider could be fined for having one anaesthetic room out of action because of the knock-on effect on Theatres and Recovery and, therefore, discharge and bed occupancy rates. Believe me, it was a full-time job doing that! To expect ward sisters (managers, remember) to cope with that as well as with their proper jobs when they are already overstretched is asking a bit too much IMO.

 

In some instances, purportedly to save money, contractors were self-monitoring. But, since they couldn't be trusted any further than they could be thrown, someone eventually had to monitor their monitors.

[Viking Warrior]

What annoys me somewhat is when union leaders go on about other peoples salary in the public and private sectors . But tlook at the figures the crowes , mccluskies , sowtka get all in excess of six figures

 

Look at the Former joint General Secretary of Unite, Derek Simpson received over £500,000,

 

including severance pay of £310,000

And Mccluskie wife is earning a fortune last I heard she earning was over £75k as some kind of director within the union fraternity. Oh is this the same mcCluskie who got a large subsidised housing loan a few years back

 

Talk of being hypocritical ,

[bridge too far]

It's the same beef that's applied to people running charities, hospitals etc. Large organisations in the private sector pay silly money to those responsible for large budgets and big workforces. The public sector, charities and unions have to try to compete with these salaries to attract the best people for the job.

 

Remember too that union members have to agree to what their full-time representatives earn. Although it was way back, my ex husband doubled his salary when he left his full time Regional Secretary job for a Union to become Head of IR for a large construction company - same work in reality but different paymaster.

 

Then again, when you read articles such as this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24016262 and think what these accountants were paid, it seems to me that everyone thinks it's OK for the private sector to pay huge salaries but not the public sector.

[Viking Warrior]

BTW

 

Im not sure that the rank and file really know who they are voting for. A lot of these regional officers and above are bullies in there own right

I have been on the receiving end of the Unite and RMT regional Officers and I dont mean in the general industrial relations consultations , they are not pleasant people, Those are definately a throw back to the seventies

 

Im not sure you would call Len mccluskie or bob crowe the best people for the job. Mccluskie was a member of millitant while crow is a communist/socialist and a follower of Scargill .

[Wade Garrett]

Have you ever met a "city type"? I know a few, they earn mega bonuses paid based on the PROFITS they make their clients/ trading company. They are also, by a long long way, the hardest working people I know (I'm good friends with a intensive care nurse, my misses is a teacher and know plenty of engineers, scientists etc). Never take holidays, work 16-18 hour days, miss their kids growing up but tell themselves they will retire at 40 (which I personally doubt, and even if they do I expect their kids will resent them anyway) and live under extreme pressure.

 

You need to understand that bankers that lose mony lose their jobs. It really is that simple, the idea of bankers getting any more than a donut when they've lost clients money is unbelievibly nieve. Anyway, you want a bogeyman to blame so knock yourself out pal.

You lost me in your first sentence. Bankers bonuses are not based on profits. You sound like a condescending c*nt, well done.

[bridge too far]

You lost me in your first sentence. Bankers bonuses are not based on profits. You sound like a condescending c*nt, well done.

 

In fact, Robert Peston as published a very good article about banking on the BBC website

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24014490

[saintfully]

It would be quicker if you could tell me which ones are hard done by, compared to low paid private sector workers.

 

It won't be a long list.

 

Tell you what, lets swap. I'll start - A&E consultant... altruistic public servant or cossetted namby-pamby public sector wastrel?

 

Your turn - name the profession of public sector workers that are wrapped in cotton wool.

[CB Saint]

Tell you what, lets swap. I'll start - A&E consultant... altruistic public servant or cossetted namby-pamby public sector wastrel?

 

Your turn - name the profession of public sector workers that are wrapped in cotton wool.

 

Anyone whose job title ends with coordinator?

[Johnny Bognor]

Tell you what, lets swap. I'll start - A&E consultant... altruistic public servant or cossetted namby-pamby public sector wastrel?

 

Your turn - name the profession of public sector workers that are wrapped in cotton wool.

 

I never said namby-pamby public sector wastrel. I said wrapped in cotton wool (relative to those in the private sector without union representation).

So when was the last time an A&E consultant was made redundant? Or let go with no notice? Or forced to look at a stakeholder pension, which he/she couldn't afford because their company didn't provide one? Or took a pay cut? With a guaranteed job and a starting salary range of £75k-£100k, A&E consultant looks pretty wrapped to me.

 

OK, my turn. Teachers.

 

Your go.

 

 

PS It never seems to amaze me how the lefties ignore the common working man on zero hour contracts or minimum wage (or both) being exploited with no job security or benefits. It's all me me me (or us us us if you're in the public sector gang) and there was me thinking that the socialists actually cared.

Edited 11 September, 2013 by Johnny Bognor