A serious transfer window review thread...

[Alain Perrin]

So at the very least we've prevented Billy from pursuing his PL dream for 2 seasons.

 

I simply dont like the way we've treated him, and now the reason he was shoved out the door last season has been shoved out the door himself.

 

On one level you are right, I am sure that Billy would have liked to get some premier league game time.

 

However, to do so would suggest that we should let emotion overrule the opinion of the manager. Fundamentally MP, and Adkins before him, made a judgement that Billy wasn't up to the Premier League - and to be honest, from the get go until the last 10 games, scoring wasn't a problem for us.

 

It's not exclusive to football - markets change, roles change, requirements change, management changes - all can impact employees.

 

As it happens for Billy he has a contract that pays X and he wants to protect that. He'll be paid by Southampton, or he could choose to accept less with someone else - if Saints can't reach an agreement with another club on a transfer or on wages that's a three-way equation. You can't expect Saints to take what they view as an unacceptable loss - otherwise we're running as a charity, equally Billy won't want to take a massive salary hit and the buying club won't want to pay a premium to buy out a longish contract.

 

His best bet is to go on loan with Saints part subsidising his salary until such time that his contract runs down to a level that is affordable to another club. It's makes the equation better for all parties. On the flip side for Saints it means if someone comes in with a decent offer in January we can sell at an acceptable price.

 

Either way he's not going to play in the Premiership for Southampton.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I notice that not a single person has questioned or challenged Charlie or demanded to know his source? is that purely because his claims meet with your agenda? with respects to Charlie he has absolutely no pedigree or history having contacts its just all very conveniently timed

 

I have PM'd a select number of people over the summer with additional details of my source - after a summer of "guessing" so many outcomes and signings if I haven’t convinced you by now I never will so pointless me sharing or responding to your type of poster.

 

 

 

makes no difference to me if you trust me or not - I simply post what I have been told

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Exactly. You don't build a team on sentiment. Chaplow, Sharp, Hammond etc were good enough to get us up but the club has outgrown their ability. You only "deserve" a chance if you're good enough. Sharp, and the others, aren't.

 

I don't buy all this we blocked a move rubbish either. There's no evidence of it and why would we. We moved Puncheon on to a prem side and unless anyone can give a credible explanation I can't accept we would treat Sharp differently.

 

 

Spot on

 

If you read some on this forum, it's quite amazing how much better Sharp, Hammond, Chaplow have become since being "denied their chance". Same with Puncheon, all of a sudden he's a world beater with the pace we require. In fact with all these guys I'm amazed we finished below Reading in the NPC. Perhaps they would have all stepped up to the plate in the Premiership and become better than they were in the NPC.

 

Anybody who believes Sharp was denied a move to a Premiership because we didn't want to help our rivals, is away with the fairies. Personally, I'd have paid him to go and play for another Premiership side, as that'll be one of the relegation spots filled.

[Glasgow_Saint]

 

 

Off your ignore list already? Another SWF stalker....... I do attract them

[Cascadia Saint]

On one level you are right, I am sure that Billy would have liked to get some premier league game time.

 

However, to do so would suggest that we should let emotion overrule the opinion of the manager. Fundamentally MP, and Adkins before him, made a judgement that Billy wasn't up to the Premier League - and to be honest, from the get go until the last 10 games, scoring wasn't a problem for us.

 

It's not exclusive to football - markets change, roles change, requirements change, management changes - all can impact employees.

 

As it happens for Billy he has a contract that pays X and he wants to protect that. He'll be paid by Southampton, or he could choose to accept less with someone else - if Saints can't reach an agreement with another club on a transfer or on wages that's a three-way equation. You can't expect Saints to take what they view as an unacceptable loss - otherwise we're running as a charity, equally Billy won't want to take a massive salary hit and the buying club won't want to pay a premium to buy out a longish contract.

 

His best bet is to go on loan with Saints part subsidising his salary until such time that his contract runs down to a level that is affordable to another club. It's makes the equation better for all parties. On the flip side for Saints it means if someone comes in with a decent offer in January we can sell at an acceptable price.

 

Either way he's not going to play in the Premiership for Southampton.

 

That's a great summary, and one I agree with 100%

 

Nige got to see Sharp play for 5 months, and then evaluate him in training for another 2 or 3 before deciding he didn't want him in the Premier League. Pochettino has come to the same conclusion. Players fall out of favour all the time at clubs, and the 90 minutes we as fans get to evaluate the 11 to 14 players who play each week is only a small part of the picture. And if a player isn't even being picked, then all we have to go on are memories and opinions.

 

The people who actually make the decisions are in a much better position to do so than us.

[Cascadia Saint]

For the 10,000th time, people have no problem with any opinion positive or negative, it's merely the way you express it and the sheer repetition, contradiction and predictability.

 

Do you never find it odd that others contribute valid concerns, negative opinions and are taken 100 times more seriously? You're either oblivious to how you come across, or you love the attention and seek out the reaction on each thread. I hope it's the former but it seems everyone else thinks it's the latter. You can write that off as 'not allowed X, Y, Z opinion', but that's just avoiding considering your own behaviour.

 

As for Glasgow, I have zero idea what his opinion is on anything anymore, but he seems to be enjoying himself and that's the main thing.

 

None of the sense you make matters as none of your points will actually be considered or answered. They will be deflected by vague, general accusations of stalking, obsessiveness and narrow-mindedness. That fact that you didn't use insults or resort to name calling won't matter. You will be labelled as part of the 'other' group, and as such dismissed out of hand with defensive, self-righteous hand wringing.

 

It's admirable that you try though.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Off your ignore list already? Another SWF stalker....... I do attract them

 

Eh? You were never on it.

 

I was laughing at what you said to him, why all this strange behaviour?

[Dig Dig]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23911157

 

interesting read on the world of transfers

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Back on topic, the signing of one player at the back, one in the middle, and one up front shows we've strengthened right down the spine of the team - and with real quality too. Add Luke Shaw's decision to sign his first pro contract here and only a fool would claim the club has not done very well this summer.

 

My thanks to our Chairman and especially Marcus Liebherr (may he RIP) for making it all possible.

[hypochondriac]

Back on topic, the signing of one player at the back, one in the middle, and one up front shows we've strengthened right down the spine of the team - and with real quality too. Add Luke Shaw's decision to sign his first pro contract here and only a fool would claim the club has not done very well this summer.

 

My thanks to our Chairman and especially Marcus Liebherr (may he RIP) for making it all possible.

 

The spine was never really the problem except for CB. Bit of a shame that you call people who disagree with you fools but to be expected.

[Cascadia Saint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23911157

 

interesting read on the world of transfers

 

That's a great read, cheers for posting. I wonder if that last story was about us and Osvaldo...?

[thesaint78]

A good read Dig Dig

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23911157

 

Wanyama?

 

"One club signed a player who broke their transfer record this summer but simply refused to pander to the agent. When the player checked in at his hotel ahead of the medical, no room was booked for the agent. No flight had been booked. Their deal was with the player. But agents should not be seen as the bad guys, they are advisors and, like referees, you don't hear much from the very best ones."

 

Gaston?

 

"Recently, a Premier League club actually flew a player and his agent over to England before the clubs had agreed a fee. A source close to the deal said "it is the way of the modern transfer deal. Often the last thing that is agreed is the fee between the clubs."

[KelvinsRightGlove]

That's a great read, cheers for posting. I wonder if that last story was about us and Osvaldo...?

 

A good read Dig Dig

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23911157

 

Wanyama?

 

"One club signed a player who broke their transfer record this summer but simply refused to pander to the agent. When the player checked in at his hotel ahead of the medical, no room was booked for the agent. No flight had been booked. Their deal was with the player. But agents should not be seen as the bad guys, they are advisors and, like referees, you don't hear much from the very best ones."

 

Gaston?

 

"Recently, a Premier League club actually flew a player and his agent over to England before the clubs had agreed a fee. A source close to the deal said "it is the way of the modern transfer deal. Often the last thing that is agreed is the fee between the clubs."

 

The flying of agent/player could be anyone really, as the article suggests. May very well have happened in either/both of the mentioned transfers. But could just have easily been anyone!

 

Also, seeing as how much the bit about the agent sounds like Big Vic, I doubt they would make the whole article about us.

 

I mean, the beeb hate us.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

He might score the goals that get them a place in Europe, either through the league or one of the cups.

 

Ok fair point.

 

I think the league is unrealistic.

 

I think Utd, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal & Liverpool at the very least will finish above them. Not forgetting He is also unable to play against Chelsea too.

 

Cups are a bit of a lottery, it's why we love them, so maybe, maybe not.

 

I think the overall point stands true though. Whilst there is an element of risk and gamble in all transfers, i think there is a far greater chance of not losing money through investing in players you own outright, rather than relying on others assets.

 

All this is also based on a slightly unfair comparison, when you consider that when we sign someone like Bic Vic for £12.5m, it is for 4 seasons or around £3m per season - getting closer to the cost of what Everton have paid for Lukaku for the season. I don't know the ins and outs of their contracts, but I wouldn't have thought the two are a million miles apart in wages.

[davefizzy14]

An amazing window for us. The Best window we have ever had IMO. Signing 3 players with champions league experience shows the direction we are heading in. Keeping Luke was also massive, I think this lad will be better than Bale. Thanks so much to Nicola and Markus (RIP) for making this happen.

[Minsk]

I notice that not a single person has questioned or challenged Charlie or demanded to know his source? is that purely because his claims meet with your agenda? with respects to Charlie he has absolutely no pedigree or history having contacts its just all very conveniently timed

 

I have PM'd a select number of people over the summer with additional details of my source - after a summer of "guessing" so many outcomes and signings if I haven’t convinced you by now I never will so pointless me sharing or responding to your type of poster.

 

 

 

makes no difference to me if you trust me or not - I simply post what I have been told

 

1. I have no idea what you are talking about re Charlie.

 

2. I have never asked, let alone 'demanded', who your source is. Nor would I bother to do so, as I am pretty certain you are just full of bull excrement.

 

3. This is exactly the sort of post I would expect from someone full of bull excrement.

 

4. Why wait so long before giving a pitiful attempt at a response to my questions? One would think you had to take time to try and figure out how best to try and bs your way out of them - without actually attempting to answer anything.

 

5. In short.........

 

Edited 3 September, 2013 by Minsk

[kpturner]

What makes you think that loan players will give less for the cause than permanent players, particularly in the build up to a world cup? If anything loan players can put more effort in as they are either trying to prove something to their parent clubs or looking for a permanent move. We've got history on that front.

 

Who said anything about giving less for the cause? I am purely alluding to the fact that you can become reliant on players that can disappear back to their parent club at the end of the season. Ask West Brom fans. Permanent signings are a better long term option if you can afford it.

Edited 3 September, 2013 by kpturner

[egg]

Who said anything about giving less for the cause? I am purely alluding to the fact that you can become reliant on players that can disappear back to their parent club at the end of the season. Ask West Brom fans.

 

Apologies, your point wasn't clear but i don't agree your point now that you've clarified it.

 

I'm in doubt west brom fans would rather have had a season of lukaku than no lukaku.

 

Everton fans will no doubt be looking forward to having him, and Barry, for the season. Next season is next season.

 

Your best players aren't guaranteed to be around next season. Ask Spurs fans.

[kpturner]

Apologies, your point wasn't clear but i don't agree your point now that you've clarified it.

 

I'm in doubt west brom fans would rather have had a season of lukaku than no lukaku.

 

Everton fans will no doubt be looking forward to having him, and Barry, for the season. Next season is next season.

 

Your best players aren't guaranteed to be around next season. Ask Spurs fans.

 

It is not a case of "loan player" or "no player". It's a case of "loan player" or "permanent signing". If a club desperately needs a striker, then surely it is better to buy than borrow (assuming they have the money). Have another look at the post I responded to.

 

Re West Brom, they now have to replace 17 goals. Not easy.

[egg]

It is not a case of "loan player" or "no player". It's a case of "loan player" or "permanent signing". If a club desperately needs a striker, then surely it is better to buy than borrow (assuming they have the money). Have another look at the post I responded to.

 

Re West Brom, they now have to replace 17 goals. Not easy.

 

This is a thread on a particular issue so I don't want to get into a debate. I just think loans make a lot of sense and often fill a hole for a short term. I don't buy into the whole owning a player thing. The bottom line is that players will go if they want to and will stay and reap the perks of the contract if that suits them. Ownership of a player gives no guarantee that the player will stick around and/or that you'll get a return when he's sold, particularly if he chooses to see out his contract.

[kpturner]

This is a thread on a particular issue so I don't want to get into a debate. I just think loans make a lot of sense and often fill a hole for a short term. I don't buy into the whole owning a player thing. The bottom line is that players will go if they want to and will stay and reap the perks of the contract if that suits them. Ownership of a player gives no guarantee that the player will stick around and/or that you'll get a return when he's sold, particularly if he chooses to see out his contract.

 

Well that is all very interesting, and yes, loans make a lot sense in some circumstance - but you are totally missing the point. Never mind.

[egg]

Well that is all very interesting, and yes, loans make a lot sense in some circumstance - but you are totally missing the point. Never mind.

 

I get your view that permanent buys are better than loans if you can afford them. I disagree.

[LostBoys]

The alleged Wenger bid for Morgan at £12m was just taking the p*ss and seems to have got the response Wenger warranted - binned

[Ralph Wiggum]

Strengthened the spine, kept Shaw and Spiderman. Very happy with the window.

 

Not quite sure how this degenerated in to a Billy Sharp love-in...can anyone in their right mind see him displacing Lambert or Osvaldo at the top of the formation? He can't play wide, so no chance there either. He may be a nice guy and and that, but it's serious business these days and you don't get results based on good intentions

[Barry Sanchez]

Strengthened the spine, kept Shaw and Spiderman. Very happy with the window.

 

Not quite sure how this degenerated in to a Billy Sharp love-in...can anyone in their right mind see him displacing Lambert or Osvaldo at the top of the formation? He can't play wide, so no chance there either. He may be a nice guy and and that, but it's serious business these days and you don't get results based on good intentions

 

If we are brave enough to put 18 year olds into team when needed why not Sharp? Good back up if you ask me, never a starter but that goes for a lot of the squad.

[Barry Sanchez]

Loans or Permanent whatever, Everton have had a great window,

Barry

McCarthy

and Lakaku, loan or not Barry in midfield is a player that will do a very good job for a season or two, McCarthy is expensive but thats Everton's fault as they were wanting to buy Fernando so had to get him at a far higher price than it should have been and Lakaku is quality, absolute quality, he is not in the Chelsea team as Abramovich has to have Torres on the edges of the sqaud or in the 1st XI.

Has their window been better than ours, well too be honest you cant really compare overall, Lakaku is a proven striker as Osvaldo is not, so you would have to say Lukaku.

Wanyama is learning the game and the pace of the premiership whereas Barry has done it all but is 11 years older, so you could argue either way there.

McCarthy is quality or has been so will see on that one.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Loans or Permanent whatever, Everton have had a great window,

Barry

McCarthy

and Lakaku, loan or not Barry in midfield is a player that will do a very good job for a season or two, McCarthy is expensive but thats Everton's fault as they were wanting to buy Fernando so had to get him at a far higher price than it should have been and Lakaku is quality, absolute quality, he is not in the Chelsea team as Abramovich has to have Torres on the edges of the sqaud or in the 1st XI.

Has their window been better than ours, well too be honest you cant really compare overall, Lakaku is a proven striker as Osvaldo is not, so you would have to say Lukaku.

Wanyama is learning the game and the pace of the premiership whereas Barry has done it all but is 11 years older, so you could argue either way there.

McCarthy is quality or has been so will see on that one.

 

Lukaku is so brilliant you consistently spell his name wrong...

[alpine_saint]

Lukaku is so brilliant you consistently spell his name wrong...

 

Is that all you got ?

[Barry Sanchez]

Lukaku is so brilliant you consistently spell his name wrong...

 

Jeff you have summed an awful lot of posters with that statement, Christ alive a spell checker, what a guy.

[Dig Dig]

I get your view that permanent buys are better than loans if you can afford them. I disagree.

 

Lol. So teams have been doing this player ownership thing all wrong then for over a century now then? Someone should tell them.

[egg]

...

Edited 4 September, 2013 by egg

[Unbelievable Jeff]

God people really are missing a sense of humour on here aren't they?

[egg]

Lol. So teams have been doing this player ownership thing all wrong then for over a century now then? Someone should tell them.

 

So you think that "owning" a player who could be a major flop (Delgado) or force a move (tevez) or see out his contract and give zero return (countless examples) is always better than having a player on loan?

 

"Owning" a player can be a financial disaster.

 

Based on last season of course many west brom fans would rather they owned lukaku, but at least an equal number would have preferred not to have owned odemwingie, for example.

[alpine_saint]

God people really are missing a sense of humour on here aren't they?

 

I thought you wanted "A serious transfer window review thread.........."

Edited 4 September, 2013 by alpine_saint
Before Jeffie bleats at me mis-spelling "serious"

[Glasgow_Saint]

I thought you wanted "A serious transfer window review thread.........."

 

I think you might be on his ignore list - I will quote you just in case?

[UpweySaint]

Back on topic I'd say a solid B for our window, not perfect but, on reflection, a very decent one.

 

Yes we signed some players with real pedigree but it is fair to say they may need time to settle, still though, a plus.

 

Didnt look like having to panic on losing our better players for once, a major plus.

 

Trimmed plenty of the fringe players and tied down the prospects to contracts, good business.

 

Let go of Puncheon (yes im well aware higher football brains made the decision but as a fan on a forum I can still grumble about it) without bringing in a replacement for what was an important part of our team last season (Redmond is looking like a steal for Norwich and I was eager for us to sign him up all summer), the only major minus for me.

 

Missing out on a few other players who went elsewhere and we, perhaps, could have got will always happen.

[St Jim]

In response to the op, I look at it simply, we improved our defence, improved our midfield and improved our attack.

 

Sure it wasn't a perfect window but no club has a perfect one. It's the best one we've ever had based on the quality we've signed so an A from me.

[alpine_saint]

Having got rid of Mayuka, I really wish we'd challenged Stoke for Arnautovic. Probably doesnt fit MoPos thinking or the "Southampton Way" though.

 

Sorry to be a bore, but I reckon hes going to turn a few heads this season.

[UpweySaint]

Having got rid of Mayuka, I really wish we'd challenged Stoke for Arnautovic. Probably doesnt fit MoPos thinking or the "Southampton Way" though.

 

Sorry to be a bore, but I reckon hes going to turn a few heads this season.

 

Fair point, was not too expensive but (I know Osvaldo) his off the field issues are a factor worth considering and how they might impact on his teammates.

[jam]

God people really are missing a sense of humour on here aren't they?

 

They're just not ready for your humour, Jeff.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Having got rid of Mayuka, I really wish we'd challenged Stoke for Arnautovic. Probably doesnt fit MoPos thinking or the "Southampton Way" though.

 

Sorry to be a bore, but I reckon hes going to turn a few heads this season.

 

 

Said this on the Transfer Deadline Day Thread "The Next Ronaldo" was an optimistic comparison made last season and some of his performances last season were fantastic. Chips in with a few goals too.

 

A steal by Stoke and £2m (quoted) seems an absolute bargain. Kudos to Stoke

 

Think we were maybe too focused on our original "Plan As" and didn’t consider or prepare for players simply turning us down. Think NC and mopo have admitted some naivety in this department already so I wont dwell

 

We clearly wanted more additions on the wing and committed to Puncheon and then Mayuka leaving assuming one target would come good – we then had Sinclair and Moses picking WBA and Liverpool and Aaron Lennon preferring to stay at Spurs.

 

Add this to the calamity attempts to sign Abdoulaye Ba, Leandro Damiao, Remy, Benega ect and our failure to offload Sharp, Lee, Guly, Fox ect

[Joensuu]

Wow, so the thread has drifted to discussing whether buying or loaning makes most sense? Seriously, both make sense, but I feel buying often focus' the players mindset slightly more.

 

I'm just chuffed to have a club that has punched above it's weight, and brought in exactly the players that we targeted, with not faffing about. We have certainly improved the squad strength, while offloading players who weren't up to scratch, and loaning out players on the fringes to see if they produce the goods elsewhere. We've kept all of our best players, and introduced three quality additions who all look likely to be either equal to or an improvement on our best players in their respective positions. And to top it off we got in early, with no messing about on the last day.

 

If this isn't our 'best ever' window, it must be damn close to it.

 

I personally doubt that we were ever in the market for a winger - I believe that that is just media hype. I also don't see that we would need one. Generally we will face one of two types of game, either a team is coming at us, or they are sitting back and defending. In the former scenario a winger might be handy, but these are the games that we've hand few problems scoring in anyhow. In the latter scenario, we are generally trying to break through two lines of 4, and crowding the opposition box. A player with pace simply won't have the space to run into. IMO we really need players with flair who can open up defenses, not wide players who are more suited to a counter-attacking team.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Loans or Permanent whatever, Everton have had a great window,

Barry

McCarthy

and Lakaku, loan or not Barry in midfield is a player that will do a very good job for a season or two, McCarthy is expensive but thats Everton's fault as they were wanting to buy Fernando so had to get him at a far higher price than it should have been and Lakaku is quality, absolute quality, he is not in the Chelsea team as Abramovich has to have Torres on the edges of the sqaud or in the 1st XI.

Has their window been better than ours, well too be honest you cant really compare overall, Lakaku is a proven striker as Osvaldo is not, so you would have to say Lukaku.

Wanyama is learning the game and the pace of the premiership whereas Barry has done it all but is 11 years older, so you could argue either way there.

McCarthy is quality or has been so will see on that one.

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Martinez got a team relegated last season, and has now done his best to reassemble that squad on Merseyside. Whilst selling one of their best players, and in Victor one of their better performers from last season.

[DuncanRG]

Think NC and mopo have admitted some naivety in this department already

 

Have they?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Have they?

 

Don't question GS, he is ITK.

 

If he says it, it is true.

 

Like the 3 premiership clubs coming in for Billy, and our bid for Remy.

[jjsaint]

Transfers in: Brought in some good players (on paper anyway). I like Lovren, jury still out on other two. Worried about unsettlement of squad though. Not sure what our starting XI should be. 6/10

 

Transfers out: Why Puncheon? Maybe there is something we don't know about behind the scenes. Held on to the best players. The Sharp saga would upset me if I believed every rumour I read. 7/10

 

Assessment: full marks for trying. Trust in MP and NC, but don't expect infallibility.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Don't question GS, he is ITK.

 

If he says it, it is true.

 

Like the 3 premiership clubs coming in for Billy, and our bid for Remy.

 

Poster Armitage Shanks posted about the Remy bid - he has a contact that works at st.marys. No reason for him to lie?

 

& didn’t mopo say during one of his conferences that the club had been naive in some respects? Maybe this got lost in translation?

 

did 3 prem clubs make a bid for Billy - I was only aware of one? thanks for the extra info

[Glasgow_Saint]

Transfers in: Brought in some good players (on paper anyway). I like Lovren, jury still out on other two. Worried about unsettlement of squad though. Not sure what our starting XI should be. 6/10

 

Transfers out: Why Puncheon? Maybe there is something we don't know about behind the scenes. Held on to the best players. The Sharp saga would upset me if I believed every rumour I read. 7/10

 

Assessment: full marks for trying. Trust in MP and NC, but don't expect infallibility.

 

fair assesment

[Barry Sanchez]

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Martinez got a team relegated last season, and has now done his best to reassemble that squad on Merseyside. Whilst selling one of their best players, and in Victor one of their better performers from last season.

 

I have to strongly disagree, if you think Victor Anichebe played well last season you are mistaken, I saw him on a number of occasions and he is absolute shiit.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I have to strongly disagree, if you think Victor Anichebe played well last season you are mistaken, I saw him on a number of occasions and he is absolute shiit.

 

I don't think he is great, but the few Everton fans I know say he was one of their better performers last year, and preferred him in the first XI to Jelavic, who just never looked like scoring.

 

Still, he is doing his best to reassemble that relegated squad.