Idiots at Stanstead Airport

[Arizona]

RAF VC-10s are ancient, fuel guzling relics which became obsolete in the 60's. Tristar's likewise in the 80's.

 

Basically they are nothing like modern commercial jets and are in no way relevant to the Stansted situation.

[OldNick]

I expect all those fences used were walked from the factory straight to Stanstead. The furnaces used to make them were used by eco not polluting fuels and the 50 odd people walked from their homes in middle England.

It is a typical protest by comfy middle class people who have nothing better to complain about. 'Our parents generation have lket us down' it was said by one of the spotty oiks. Well their parents generation spent most of the time trying to carve a comfortable living for these people to live off.I suspect most go on foreign holidays and dont check how their veg and fruit is transported across to be fresh. ie Prawns from Indonisia. (not that Im for the food being airlifted for our evening grub)

[bridge too far]

I expect all those fences used were walked from the factory straight to Stanstead. The furnaces used to make them were used by eco not polluting fuels and the 50 odd people walked from their homes in middle England.

It is a typical protest by comfy middle class people who have nothing better to complain about. 'Our parents generation have lket us down' it was said by one of the spotty oiks. Well their parents generation spent most of the time trying to carve a comfortable living for these people to live off.I suspect most go on foreign holidays and dont check how their veg and fruit is transported across to be fresh. ie Prawns from Indonisia. (not that Im for the food being airlifted for our evening grub)

 

Uh oh - NickH in generalisation shocker

 

I know you'll find this hard to believe, Nick, but some people actually do have principles (even if they're misguided ones) and do actually stick to them.

 

I don't fly, I do only buy locally produced food as far as possible and I do try to use public transport whenever I can and I'm not even a 'greenie'.

 

I'm sure these people will be even more determined to stick by their principles too.

[OldNick]

Uh oh - NickH in generalisation shocker

 

I know you'll find this hard to believe, Nick, but some people actually do have principles (even if they're misguided ones) and do actually stick to them.

 

I don't fly, I do only buy locally produced food as far as possible and I do try to use public transport whenever I can and I'm not even a 'greenie'.

 

I'm sure these people will be even more determined to stick by their principles too.

 

No doubt they do, but that does not answer the manufacture and delivery of the fencing.

Their carbon footprint during todays event would be mind boggling. The transportation, the movement of police and security let alone their own movements.

I like to buy home produce but of course I dont have the luxury of working on a nice fat government contract.....smiley thingy

[Weston Super Saint]

Uh oh - NickH in generalisation shocker

 

I know you'll find this hard to believe, Nick, but some people actually do have principles (even if they're misguided ones) and do actually stick to them.

 

I don't fly, I do only buy locally produced food as far as possible and I do try to use public transport whenever I can and I'm not even a 'greenie'.

 

I'm sure these people will be even more determined to stick by their principles too.

 

Have you ever eaten 'Whitby' Scampi in a restaurant?

[bridge too far]

Have you ever eaten 'Whitby' Scampi in a restaurant?

 

No, hand on heart, I haven't.

 

But this is entirely because I don't like scampi

[bungle]

why should the government do it...the railways are private are they not...just like the air industy...why should WE pay for the reformation of the railways when they alrady screw us with fares today?

 

In this instance, no. Since Railtrack went bust the company that owns the track, Network Rail, is a nationalised company.

[Thedelldays]

In this instance, no. Since Railtrack went bust the company that owns the track, Network Rail, is a nationalised company.

 

 

so.improving the railway lines themselves will sort the problem? alone..?

[bungle]

so.improving the railway lines themselves will sort the problem? alone..?

 

Don't be so obtuse. No problem is solved by a one off solution.

 

However, a massive programme of electrifying the lines across the country, re-opening branch lines and building national high speed rail links, will start us off on the right track.

 

You'll also notice that the government awards the franchises to the railway companies, so when they come up for tender the government can stipulate what is required to win that franchise (frequency of trains, improvement in rolling stock etc), and should act accordingly and also remove failing operators.

 

Do I think the current government is going to do all this....nope.

[Weston Super Saint]

Don't be so obtuse. No problem is solved by a one off solution.

 

However, a massive programme of electrifying the lines across the country, re-opening branch lines and building national high speed rail links, will start us off on the right track.

 

You'll also notice that the government awards the franchises to the railway companies, so when they come up for tender the government can stipulate what is required to win that franchise (frequency of trains, improvement in rolling stock etc), and should act accordingly and also remove failing operators.

 

Do I think the current government is going to do all this....nope.

 

Do you think any Gov't is going to do this?

[bridge too far]

Do you think any Gov't is going to do this?

 

They have refused to renew some contracts because of poor performance.

[Weston Super Saint]

They have refused to renew some contracts because of poor performance.

 

So, despite what Bungle says, the current Gov't ARE doing it

 

Wowzers, who'd have thought Bungle would have an agenda against the current gov't :smt102

[bungle]

So, despite what Bungle says, the current Gov't ARE doing it

 

Wowzers, who'd have thought Bungle would have an agenda against the current gov't :smt102

 

Again, if you bothered to read what was written I did put "all this" not "parts of this".

[Weston Super Saint]

Again, if you bothered to read what was written I did put "all this" not "parts of this".

 

Oh right.

 

So they shouldn't have a starting point, just do it all at once?

[bungle]

Oh right.

 

So they shouldn't have a starting point, just do it all at once?

 

If you want to make that argument, then in fact they've done it totally the wrong way round. Yes, I'm pleased that poor performed operators have lost their franchise (although how Virgin lost the Cross Country franchise I'm not sure), but what we need to see first is real investment in improving the network, and then asking more from the operators. We also need to give them longer franchises (say 15 years) to give them an incentive to invest. At the moment the franchises are so short that that incentive just isn't there.

[Robsk II]

This thread is amusing. The usual uninformed bile, bizarre vitriol, mindless stereotyping, lazy thinking.

 

I'm not in support of the manners of some protests and protesters, but people have a right to show their distaste for things - certainly if that's done in a fairly sensible way. It is also absolutely true that only total ****ing idiots have no thought whatsoever for the environment. Many people are just frivolous, without paying any heed to reality or the well-being of others. The 'not giving a ****, I hate these people who protest' just isn't sensible. The more extreme cases of these views are held by the kind of people that also seem o not give a **** at all about things like sweat shops etc, as long as their ****ty t-shirts are nice and cheap. So definitively self centred that they are a disgrace to the species IMO.

 

Equally, any protest that unfairly affects others generally misses the point, in my view. Certainly any that endanger others or cost others money, time and so on. Clearly, somtimes you have to do something that matters to actually force a change, but in those cases, it's often indicative of greed at the top rather than stupidity on the part of the protesters.

[Weston Super Saint]

If you want to make that argument, then in fact they've done it totally the wrong way round. Yes, I'm pleased that poor performed operators have lost their franchise (although how Virgin lost the Cross Country franchise I'm not sure), but what we need to see first is real investment in improving the network, and then asking more from the operators. We also need to give them longer franchises (say 15 years) to give them an incentive to invest. At the moment the franchises are so short that that incentive just isn't there.

 

Again, just like my previous question do you think any Gov't is going to do this, or does it just not win enough votes to become viable?

[Thedelldays]

This thread is amusing. The usual uninformed bile, bizarre vitriol, mindless stereotyping, lazy thinking.

 

I'm not in support of the manners of some protests and protesters, but

of course rob...you are the beacon of all knowledge...how can we be as informed as you i will never know

[Weston Super Saint]

This thread is amusing. The usual uninformed bile, bizarre vitriol, mindless stereotyping, lazy thinking.

 

I'm not in support of the manners of some protests and protesters, but people have a right to show their distaste for things - certainly if that's done in a fairly sensible way. It is also absolutely true that only total ****ing idiots have no thought whatsoever for the environment. Many people are just frivolous, without paying any heed to reality or the well-being of others. The 'not giving a ****, I hate these people who protest' just isn't sensible. The more extreme cases of these views are held by the kind of people that also seem o not give a **** at all about things like sweat shops etc, as long as their ****ty t-shirts are nice and cheap. So definitively self centred that they are a disgrace to the species IMO.

 

Equally, any protest that unfairly affects others generally misses the point, in my view. Certainly any that endanger others or cost others money, time and so on. Clearly, somtimes you have to do something that matters to actually force a change, but in those cases, it's often indicative of greed at the top rather than stupidity on the part of the protesters.

 

RobskII in holier than thou attitude non shocker....

[bungle]

Again, just like my previous question do you think any Gov't is going to do this, or does it just not win enough votes to become viable?

 

I don't see any hope of Labour doing it. The Tories have now promised high speed rail, but the rest of their package lacks depth.

 

It terms of votes: I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people in the UK think that the rail service is underfunded, and the branch lines should never have closed. I think they would like is an affordable, reliable network that could get them from A to B. The UK used to have a proud railway network, one of the best (if not the best) in the world. Sadly now it is a shambles. So, yes, I think people would want this if it was a single choice, I am comfortable with that.

 

If you want to go into a debate about how our electoral system is a shambles, how the media enhance 2-party politics at every turn, and how I think many more people would vote for a new direction (not neccessarily Lib Dem, btw), if they felt secure that it would not just result in whichever one of Labour/Tory they detest more getting in, then that is really a seperate debate.

[Robsk II]

RobskII in holier than thou attitude non shocker....

 

A) I never actually said this was entirely directed at any one group. Paranoid, BNP-ites?

 

B) As for being informed, some of you people's opinions clearly indicate that I am more informed than you. In these cases, damn right I'm holier than thou. Also more intelligent, more reasonable, less of a selfish idiot, and a fundamentally better person. x

[Scummer]

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people in the UK think that the rail service is underfunded, and the branch lines should never have closed.

 

I'll be 33 in a couple of months, and although I'm aware of such a thing as branch lines, I couldn't tell you what or where they were.

 

I'd be in favour of expanding the railway network, but any attempt to build new lines these days will just get bogged down in protests from NIMBY's. And they'd have a point to be honest, a train line at the end of your garden is bloody noisy.

[Weston Super Saint]

A) I never actually said this was entirely directed at any one group. Paranoid, BNP-ites?

 

B) As for being informed, some of you people's opinions clearly indicate that I am more informed than you. In these cases, damn right I'm holier than thou. Also more intelligent, more reasonable, less of a selfish idiot, and a fundamentally better person. x

 

In your own Walter Mitty-esque humble opinion

[Robsk II]

Yep. Humble. As it happens, I'm actually my own fiercest critic, and I'm painfully aware of my faults. Generally, my reasoning and rationality are not high up on the list. I'm just also painfully honest about my positive attributes too. Perhaps my comfort in my self is why I am not so embittered as to blame all and sundry for my *generic racist term* problems and never myself. "Get a job, terrorist asylum paki immi-gants" - "Stupid protesters, protesting about.. something, gr" etc

[Weston Super Saint]

Yep. Humble. As it happens, I'm actually my own fiercest critic, and I'm painfully aware of my faults. Generally, my reasoning and rationality are not high up on the list. I'm just also painfully honest about my positive attributes too. Perhaps my comfort in my self is why I am not so embittered as to blame all and sundry for my problems and never myself. "Get a job, terrorist asylum paki immi-gants" - "Stupid protesters, protesting about.. something, gr" etc

 

Robsk II in I'm the bestest person in the whole wide world and the rest of you are just morons non shocker.

[Robsk II]

Haha. Nail. On. Head.

 

WSS in tedious drivel shocker.

[Weston Super Saint]

Haha. Nail. On. Head.

 

WSS in tedious drivel shocker.

 

You really do have that opinion of yourself don't you?

[Robsk II]

This is fun. Seriously though, I have to go to work. Sorry. It's been grand. x

[Jillyanne]

This is fun. Seriously though, I have to go to work. Sorry. It's been grand. x

 

This is more fun surely?

[Give it to Ron]

. So definitively self centred that they are a disgrace to the species IMO.

 

Equally, any protest that unfairly affects others generally misses the point, in my view. Certainly any that endanger others or cost others money, time and so on. Clearly, somtimes you have to do something that matters to actually force a change, but in those cases, it's often indicative of greed at the top rather than stupidity on the part of the protesters.

 

Yep especially when their values are so strong....oh hold on though

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1024384/Top-anti-aviation-activist-secretly-FLIES-airport-protest-New-York.html

 

Anyone want to pass their good wishes on to the Plane Stupid Idiots might find the contact details (conveniently shown on their home page) useful:

 

Pretend to be a supporter:

info@planestupid.com

07595 506673

Pretend to be from a newspaper:

press@planestupid.com

07948 311396

07951 129461

Edited 9 December, 2008 by Give it to Ron

[Hatch]

I love this,

 

The bloke who sells soap for a living, is helping out the soap dodgers. Brilliant.

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23598922-details/Soap%20tycoon:%20Why%20I'm%20funding%20airport%20demos/article.do?expand=true

 

 

And of course, I'm sure his business would survive without air travel.

[Thedelldays]

the great unwashed doing their stuff again...

[jeff leopard]

so are the protestors soap dodgers or middle-England middle-class busy-bodies with nothing better to do?

 

seems like you'll throw any out-of-date cliché at them to justify either shooting them on sight or at least throwing them in a deep dark hole.

 

so yeah, cry your hearts out for people who had their flights delayed for a couple of hours and go about ignoring the bigger picture i.e. the slow destruction of our one and only planet.

 

its important to get your priorities in order.

[Thedelldays]

so are the protestors soap dodgers or middle-England middle-class busy-bodies with nothing better to do?

 

seems like you'll throw any out-of-date cliché at them to justify either shooting them on sight or at least throwing them in a deep dark hole.

 

so yeah, cry your hearts out for people who had their flights delayed for a couple of hours and go about ignoring the bigger picture i.e. the slow destruction of our one and only planet.

 

its important to get your priorities in order.

 

 

cheers for that...i bet you would have been full of support for them when if you had been at the airport, not knowing what has fully gone on and only aware of a group of people invading the runway, restricted areas.....im sure mumbai NEVER went through anyones mind..

 

the great STUPID unwashed should have been what I said....anyone can protest, which is the beauty of it all...but every one has personal responsibility too

[Mao Cap]

I can't remember the last time that anyone actually tried to refute Robsk's points, instead of calling him holier-than-thou or arrogant. To me, that indicates that they can't...because then they would.

 

Not hatin', just statin'.

[Thedelldays]

I can't remember the last time that anyone actually tried to refute Robsk's points, instead of calling him holier-than-thou or arrogant. To me, that indicates that they can't...because then they would.

 

Not hatin', just statin'.

 

 

i cat remember when robsk actually refuted anyone elses point without calling them thick or a daily maill reader..

 

not hatin' just statin'

[Weston Super Saint]

I can't remember the last time that anyone actually tried to refute Robsk's points, instead of calling him holier-than-thou or arrogant. To me, that indicates that they can't...because then they would.

 

Not hatin', just statin'.

 

I think most people have reached the point of 'can't be bothered' rather than can't.

 

Robsk II has never, and most likely will never change his mind anyway, so really, what's the point?

[Arizona]

so are the protestors soap dodgers or middle-England middle-class busy-bodies with nothing better to do?

 

seems like you'll throw any out-of-date cliché at them to justify either shooting them on sight or at least throwing them in a deep dark hole.

 

so yeah, cry your hearts out for people who had their flights delayed for a couple of hours and go about ignoring the bigger picture i.e. the slow destruction of our one and only planet.

 

its important to get your priorities in order.

 

I've already explained how:

 

a) Air travel is far from being a major cause of pollution and is infact only responsible for 3% of worldwide carbon emissions.

 

b) Not building a runway at Stansted and or Heathrow wont stop people travelling and will only increase carbon emissions as people have to be shuttled to other airports further from the capital.

[Weston Super Saint]

I couldn't find any relevant news articles - where's BTF - but maybe this soap guy was told to bugger off when inquiring about providing soap to airlines?

 

Could be true, could be his motive??

[ericofarabia]

I've already explained how:

 

a) Air travel is far from being a major cause of pollution and is infact only responsible for 3% of worldwide carbon emissions.

 

b) Not building a runway at Stansted and or Heathrow wont stop people travelling and will only increase carbon emissions as people have to be shuttled to other airports further from the capital.

 

Did I once read somewhere that a field full of grazing cattle's farts/pharts/poots/ botty burps etc (repetition in case swear filter renders this post meaningless :cool:) produces far more damage to the ozone layer than aircraft, or was it just a bizarre dream

 

The whole demo probably caused more carbon emissions by aircraft holding in the sky waiting for the airport to re open, then flying further afield to land else where. Then fleets of coaches to transport all the passengers scattered around the country to their intended destination. Loads of burnt dinners as people arrived back home late :-? etc etc.

 

Also as quite rightly expressed above, imagine the myriad of worrying thoughts going through the passengers minds as to why their flight was going around in circles or not boarding. How many unaccompanied minors didn't reach their proper destination due to the diversions etc leaving parents fraught with worry. How many people missed connections with other flights, pre booked taxi's or pre paid train fares? How many pilots plans for a bit of away day rumpy pumpy with a hostess were ruined due to their flight being cancelled.

 

I hope the protestors enjoyed their walk home, as I am sure none of them would ever dream of using any form of emission producing transport.

[jeff leopard]

I've already explained how:

 

a) Air travel is far from being a major cause of pollution and is infact only responsible for 3% of worldwide carbon emissions.

 

OK, so lets keep increasing the number of flights until it is a major cause of carbon emissions.

 

b) Not building a runway at Stansted and or Heathrow wont stop people travelling and will only increase carbon emissions as people have to be shuttled to other airports further from the capital.

 

Even if they're shuttled by coach or train? Really? Wow.

 

No, your right of course. Let just carry on like there is no problem. But when your children and your children's children ask you how you tried to fight the global crisis, at this tipping point in human history, be sure to point out you had great fun ridiculing the protestors.

[Thedelldays]

OK, so lets keep increasing the number of flights until it is a major cause of carbon emissions.

 

 

 

Even if they're shuttled by coach or train? Really? Wow.

 

No, your right of course. Let just carry on like there is no problem. But when your children and your children's children ask you how you tried to fight the global crisis, at this tipping point in human history, be sure to point out you had great fun ridiculing the protestors.

 

are you mental?

isn't the UK one of the world leaders in this battle with climate change?

havent we set ourselves very high targets to hit with regards to climate change..?

 

just not building another runway around london wont stop the planes coming here....it will make them go further to another airport ffs...is that so hard to grasp..?

 

so....as a country. we are doing a heck of a great deal in this climate change thing, despite the fact that due to our size, what we do will not make a great deal of difference in the grand scheme of things

[TopGun]

are you mental?

isn't the UK one of the world leaders in this battle with climate change?

havent we set ourselves very high targets to hit with regards to climate change..?

 

just not building another runway around london wont stop the planes coming here....it will make them go further to another airport ffs...is that so hard to grasp..?

 

so....as a country. we are doing a heck of a great deal in this climate change thing, despite the fact that due to our size, what we do will not make a great deal of difference in the grand scheme of things

 

I'll let you figure out jatropha and algae TDD and the potential effect of the EU Aviation ETS. Call it your test for the day!

[Arizona]

OK, so lets keep increasing the number of flights until it is a major cause of carbon emissions.

 

I can't work out whether you are a nutter or this is just a wind up. Either way, it's good fun.

 

You are completely ignoring the fact that the environmental impact of aviation worldwide is only 3%. Every new generation of aircraft is typically between 20% an 50% more efficient than the aircraft it replaced, meaning we could increase passenger traffic by 20% over the next 20 years and have NO increase in carbon emissions

 

Even if they're shuttled by coach or train? Really? Wow.

 

So, you are saying trains and coaches don't cause any pollution at all. The increase traffic of people using bus and train links is going to mean more busses and trains, therefore more pollution.

 

Therefore you are better off with the runway at Stansted, rather than more flights at somewhere like Coventry and having to shuttle them to London.

 

 

No, your right of course. Let just carry on like there is no problem. But when your children and your children's children ask you how you tried to fight the global crisis, at this tipping point in human history, be sure to point out you had great fun ridiculing the protestors.

 

I am all for conserving the planet, but the guys protesting at Stansted aren't achieving anything other than causing chaos. They are just narrow minded one trick pony's who do nothing to actually save the environment, just interupt everyone else's life.

 

They are not going to achieve ANYTHING possitive by protesting at Stansted. Even if their dream comes true and no runway is built, they wont prevent air travel from expanding elsewhere. And even if they did, they could reduce worldwide carbon emissions from 3% to say 2.998%

 

If it were people like you running the planet, we'd all be living in caves eating turnips singing Kumbaya.

[Robsk II]

....just narrow minded

 

.....people like you running the planet, we'd all be living in caves eating turnips singing Kumbaya.

 

Hmmmmm.

[Arizona]

Hmmmmm.

 

I'm not being narrow minded. I can see the need to accomodate ecconomic growth in the future, whilst still preserving the enviroment. My point is that the people at Stansted aren't going to achieve either, even if they do get what they want.

[Robsk II]

As it happens, I'm not rabidly for or against. I do understand they are ****ing a lot of entirely innocent people off, but also, sometimes active protest that actually impacts on things, people, businesses, is sadly all that gets noticed. I actually thing they have bigger fish to fry that a new strip at Stansted, but I also sort of agree with smoe of their more reasoned sentiments. Not enough is being done, too much apathy is rife.

[Thedelldays]

a few years ago...nutters like jeoff cried for the nuclear power stations to be closed as they caused the environment damage....im sure there will never be a need to open them again...

 

oh

[teamsaint]

they never campaign against the eco catastrophe that is Christmas..................

[Arizona]

a few years ago...nutters like jeoff cried for the nuclear power stations to be closed as they caused the environment damage....im sure there will never be a need to open them again...

 

oh

 

Indeed.

 

Glad we got rid of those terrible nuclear plants that produced practically zero CO2 and replaced them with coal-fired power stations.