MP Does he know what he's doing?

[Didcot Saint]

He has left key players out of the team, took AL off in the last two games when he looked one of our best players, moved our only pacy winger out on loan and we have only won one game in nine in the league with a last min penalty and bought players for near on 30 million who don't seem to be any better than we already had? I'm a bit worried.

[Olallana]

Yes we need another thread about this....

 

When is the "Why did MP sub Lallana" and the "Why did MP spend on rubbish players" threads gonna be released??

[Fitzhugh Fella]

MP had admitted IN HINDSIGHT he should have left AL on so yes he made a mistake there but had Ramirez scored 2 there would be no moaning on here. What is worrying is since the last 6 games of last season and the first three of this we have regressed if anything. We are looking pedestrian and void of ideas. If we have no wingers then we do need marauding backs and without Clyne they don't exist. I would have liked to see Moses here but seems he is off to Merseyside.

MP is a smart guy I am sure he is working on things.

[Baldbarbarian]

Puncheon moved for personal reasons. When will people get this into their thick skulls?

[Barry Sanchez]

MP had admitted IN HINDSIGHT he should have left AL on so yes he made a mistake there but had Ramirez scored 2 there would be no moaning on here. What is worrying is since the last 6 games of last season and the first three of this we have regressed if anything. We are looking pedestrian and void of ideas. If we have no wingers then we do need marauding backs and without Clyne they don't exist. I would have liked to see Moses here but seems he is off to Merseyside.

MP is a smart guy I am sure he is working on things.

 

Sorry I just shat my pants and fell through a window, when has Ramirez ever scored two in a game for us?

[Olallana]

Puncheon moved for personal reasons. When will people get this into their thick skulls?

 

Never is the answer to that one I´m afraid...

[Bearsy]

bought players for near on 30 million who don't seem to be any better than we already had?

 

lols is that srsly what you think?

[Didcot Saint]

Personal reasons my arse. How come he recently signed a new contract if he wanted away. Get that into your thick skull pal.

[Saint Garrett]

Lovren has definitely improved us, he looks a top signing.

 

Wanyama I'm not sure about, they'll be games when he fits better but would still have the Morgan/Cork partnership the majority of the time.

 

Osvaldo looks a good player, but we need to sort out who is going to play. No point trying to fit Osvaldo and Rickie in the same team and play 442 cos it won't work.

 

Shaw and Clyne were the oddest thing yesterday. If they were both fit then they should play, of they're not, then why are they on the bench?!

 

Rodriguez should have started as he fits in the system perfectly.

 

For me it's:

 

Boruc; Clyne Fonte Lovren Shaw; Cork Morgan; Rodriguez JWP Lallana; Osvaldo.

 

Davis Wanyama Yoshida Mayuka Lambert Chambers Gaston

[Didcot Saint]

Osvaldo? Better than Jay Rod or SRL? Wanyana better than MS or Cork? I don't think so but I agree usefull additions and we need a bigger squad, all I'm trying to say is that I don't think MP knows his best side and this is the problem.

[Bearsy]

Shaw and Clyne were the oddest thing yesterday. If they were both fit then they should play, of they're not, then why are they on the bench?!

 

I'm surprised that people is so bothered about this! Soon as i saw they were on bench i thought, oh both must be carrying knocks, he's stuck them on bench for emergency but don't want to risk them getting worse injury if he can help it.

[Baldbarbarian]

Never is the answer to that one I´m afraid...

 

I think you are right there!

[Baldbarbarian]

Personal reasons my arse. How come he recently signed a new contract if he wanted away. Get that into your thick skull pal.

 

Haha you carry on wetting the bed everytime we lose

[shurlock]

Osvaldo? Better than Jay Rod or SRL? Wanyana better than MS or Cork? I don't think so but I agree usefull additions and we need a bigger squad, all I'm trying to say is that I don't think MP knows his best side and this is the problem.

 

Would you like the McInnes or the facepalm?

[Turkish]

The jury is still very much out for me. Despite all the brash talk about how he was going to move us to the next level and so much better than Adkins, the proof is in the pudding and his recent record of one win in nine and only five goals is poor when you also take into account the opposition faced.

 

We have a number of good attacking options and he isn't getting the best out of them, we struggle to break teams down and his high pressure high energy game produces hard working teams but not creative one whcih is a travesty considering the players he has available.He's also been out thought tactically on several occasions and appears to be a bit of a one trick pony.

 

When you consider in our last nine league games we've only played 2 sides that finished in the top half of the table one win and five goals is pretty shocking.you can blame referees all you like but Thetis simply papering over the cracks that our recent form is poor and he's not been getting the best out of the players he has available.

[Didcot Saint]

The jury is still very much out for me. Despite all the brash talk about how he was going to move us to the next level and so much better than Adkins, the proof is in the pudding and his recent record of one win in nine and only five goals is poor when you also take into account the opposition faced.

 

We have a number of good attacking options and he isn't getting the best out of them, we struggle to break teams down and his high pressure high energy game produces hard working teams but not creative one whcih is a travesty considering the players he has available.He's also been out thought tactically on several occasions and appears to be a bit of a one trick pony.

 

When you consider in our last nine league games we've only played 2 sides that finished in the top half of the table one win and five goals is pretty shocking.you can blame referees all you like but Thetis simply papering over the cracks that our recent form is poor and he's not been getting the best out of the players he has available.

 

Thank you

[shurlock]

The jury is still very much out for me. Despite all the brash talk about how he was going to move us to the next level and so much better than Adkins, the proof is in the pudding and his recent record of one win in nine and only five goals is poor when you also take into account the opposition faced.

 

We have a number of good attacking options and he isn't getting the best out of them, we struggle to break teams down and his high pressure high energy game produces hard working teams but not creative one whcih is a travesty considering the players he has available.He's also been out thought tactically on several occasions and appears to be a bit of a one trick pony.

 

When you consider in our last nine league games we've only played 2 sides that finished in the top half of the table one win and five goals is pretty shocking.you can blame referees all you like but Thetis simply papering over the cracks that our recent form is poor and he's not been getting the best out of the players he has available.

 

As you would say - why 9 games? Cherrypicking, no?

[Bearsy]

As you would say - why 9 games? Cherrypicking, no?

 

lol

[The Kraken]

The jury is still very much out for me. Despite all the brash talk about how he was going to move us to the next level and so much better than Adkins, the proof is in the pudding and his recent record of one win in nine and only five goals is poor when you also take into account the opposition faced.

 

We have a number of good attacking options and he isn't getting the best out of them, we struggle to break teams down and his high pressure high energy game produces hard working teams but not creative one whcih is a travesty considering the players he has available.He's also been out thought tactically on several occasions and appears to be a bit of a one trick pony.

 

When you consider in our last nine league games we've only played 2 sides that finished in the top half of the table one win and five goals is pretty shocking.you can blame referees all you like but Thetis simply papering over the cracks that our recent form is poor and he's not been getting the best out of the players he has available.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

 

At the back end of last season we beat Liverpool, Chelsea and reading in succession and MP's stock was sky high. Since then we've regressed and scored just 8 points in 9 games against West Ham, Swansea, West Brom, Tottenham, Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, Sunderland and Norwich, while also becoming very predictable (as our low scoring record indicates).

[Batman]

jesus. we lost a game

granted we never played well but we have 4 points from 3 games, 2 of which were away

 

we can only get better from here and have a nice break at the right time now.

 

yesterday was not great but there is a hell of a lot to get excited about

spurs have not scored from open play either, doubt they are in a fuzz about it

[trousers]

Personal reasons my arse. How come he recently signed a new contract if he wanted away.

 

Money

[trousers]

jesus. we lost a game

granted we never played well but we have 4 points from 3 games, 2 of which were away

 

we can only get better from here and have a nice break at the right time now.

 

yesterday was not great but there is a hell of a lot to get excited about

spurs have not scored from open play either, doubt they are in a fuzz about it

 

You do realise this isn't the place for pragmatism after we lose a game?

[Turkish]

As you would say - why 9 games? Cherrypicking, no?

 

Don't disagree then?

 

His whole time here hasn't been anywhere near as impressive and some would make out. We had that little Purple patch where we won 3 in a row last season, since then we have gone backwards.

[Batman]

His whole time here hasn't been anywhere near as impressive and some would make out. We had that little Purple patch where we won 3 in a row last season, since then we have gone backwards.

 

gone backwards from that purple patch, yes.

that was top 4 form

 

interestingly, if you said we got 4 points from the first 3 games at the start of the season, I would have said that would have been pretty decent.

[Roger]

MP had admitted IN HINDSIGHT he should have left AL on so yes he made a mistake there but had Ramirez scored 2 there would be no moaning on here. What is worrying is since the last 6 games of last season and the first three of this we have regressed if anything. We are looking pedestrian and void of ideas. If we have no wingers then we do need marauding backs and without Clyne they don't exist. I would have liked to see Moses here but seems he is off to Merseyside.

MP is a smart guy I am sure he is working on things.

 

I listened to his interview and he certainly didn't say he was wrong with Lallana, quite the opposit.

[Roger]

Puncheon moved for personal reasons. When will people get this into their thick skulls?

 

But potch said he realised he wasn't getting in the team after osvaldo signing!

[Turkish]

gone backwards from that purple patch, yes.

that was top 4 form

 

interestingly, if you said we got 4 points from the first 3 games at the start of the season, I would have said that would have been pretty decent.

 

Look at it over a longer period though Jamie and there is a pattern forming. On several occasions we've been undone by teams who have defended deep and hit us on the counter, MP on every occasions has done nothing to change this, either unwilling or unable. We can't break teams down that defend and 5 goals and only 3 of them from open play in 9 goals is awful considering the teams we've played and the attacking players we have in the squad. Is he getting the best out of Lambert, Lallana and Ramirez? You'd have to say no.

Edited 1 September, 2013 by Turkish

[S-Clarke]

People started talking because of the wins against Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool in close succession - the 3 games that pretty much kept us up. If you take those 3 games out of the equation, the record looks pretty poor and we didn't look like scoring at the back end of the season, which you can't really ignore - it's also manifesting it's self into this year.

 

We have stepped up in terms of our play though, our football is better and more structured but also more frustrating. A fine example is that of Man Utd last season, we played fantastically up at OT but just couldn't score a 2nd no matter how much we tried. We should have also beaten sunderland for all our possession.

 

Jury's still out in terms of results, however we do play better football and have more organisation about us - alas we look pretty boring to watch.

[SaintRichmond]

I'm surprised that people is so bothered about this! Soon as i saw they were on bench i thought, oh both must be carrying knocks, he's stuck them on bench for emergency but don't want to risk them getting worse injury if he can help it.

 

 

This isn't against you Bearsy, but the philosophy you outline.

 

Having "unfit" or "not quite fit" or "carrying a knock" players on the bench makes no sense at all to me.

 

IMHO

If you are "unfit", or "not quite fit", or "carrying a knock", then IMHO, you are UNFIT . End of. You are NOT fit to play

 

Only FULLY fit players should be on the bench. Come to that, in this modern professional game, only fully fit players should be in the starting eleven

 

I don't understand the "he's on the bench in case he's needed" cobblers. The days of "carrying a passenger" have long since gone

 

If a player's fitness IS suspect, then play him from the START, then if he breaks down, he can be subbed.

 

What is the point of having a half fit player on the bench, bring him on at 70 mins, then he fully crocks himself after 71mins

 

I did not expect miracles from Pochettino, but I am of the opinion that, given the players we have aquired, I expected, and expect us to be better than we are

 

With a vastly superior squad, and now 20 odd games in charge, MP is achieving LESS than NA did IMHO. No good in saying how good we are to watch, if we don't get the points on the board

[Batman]

Look at it over a longer period though Jamie and there is a pattern forming. On several occasions we've been undone by teams who have defended deep and hit us on the counter, MP on every occasions has done nothing to change this, either unwilling or unable. We can't break teams down that defend and 5 goals and only 3 of them from open play in 9 goals is awful considering the teams we've played and the attacking players we have in the squad. Is he getting the best out of Lambert, Lallana and Ramirez?

indeed. we are far from perfect. that is one in the eye for those who think we are nearly as good as arsenal and not far from liverpool

although we are spending £35m. every team around mid table has spent/bought in players.

 

I think MP will get it right, the players he has bought in are the right sort of players, top CB, good CM and an international striker. I think we all thought we need to bring in 1st 11 type players

 

can he gel them into the squad? I think so/hope so.

are we going to over take liverpool.....not a hope in hell this season, or next or the one after. the sooner people (not you) accept that, the better as the dummies out of the pram by some when we lose a game is way OTT.

 

admitting we did not play well is fair enough, but suggesting we change manager etc is daft as fuk

[kpturner]

The jury is still very much out for me. Despite all the brash talk about how he was going to move us to the next level and so much better than Adkins, the proof is in the pudding and his recent record of one win in nine and only five goals is poor when you also take into account the opposition faced.

 

We have a number of good attacking options and he isn't getting the best out of them, we struggle to break teams down and his high pressure high energy game produces hard working teams but not creative one whcih is a travesty considering the players he has available.He's also been out thought tactically on several occasions and appears to be a bit of a one trick pony.

 

When you consider in our last nine league games we've only played 2 sides that finished in the top half of the table one win and five goals is pretty shocking.you can blame referees all you like but Thetis simply papering over the cracks that our recent form is poor and he's not been getting the best out of the players he has available.

Not picking on this post particularly as there are plenty of others saying similar things, but what is the point in including last season's games when analysing our form? It is completely pointless, since the players, position in the league and therefore tactics may be completely different at the end of a long season compared to the start of a new one. We need to look at this season with this set of players to assess form - and on the whole (albeit only over 3/4 games) it has been pretty good.

[kpturner]

...

Edited 1 September, 2013 by kpturner
Posted twice for some reason

[Turkish]

Not picking on this post particularly as there are plenty of others saying similar things, but what is the point in including last season's games when analysing our form? It is completely pointless, since the players, position in the league and therefore tactics may be completely different at the end of a long season compared to the start of a new one. We need to look at this season with this set of players to assess form - and on the whole (albeit only over 3/4 games) it has been pretty good.

 

Because the same things are happening. Not scoring, not being able to break teams down and not being able to beat teams that don't attack us.

 

There has been a lot of talk from some that we are better than arsenal and Liverpool and Nick Gs top 6 aims before our summer activity, some need a touch of realism.

[Sour Mash]

Puncheon moved for personal reasons. When will people get this into their thick skulls?

Puncheon's "personal reasons" was wanting first team football.

[The Kraken]

Just for reference: MP has now been with Saints for 19 games. He has a record of W6 D8 L5. Over the course of a full season that would yield 52 points, typically enough to secure an 8th place finish. Quite clearly that is very good. Although I do share the concerns of the last few games and that the progress we have made under MP seems to have regressed somewhat.

[Batman]

one thing. now the new player are here etc, I kind of think the break has come at a good time for us

we shall see

[Bearsy]

Having "unfit" or "not quite fit" or "carrying a knock" players on the bench makes no sense at all to me.

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's probably the fact of the case. I refuse to believe ponch plays Fox & Chambers cos he thinks they're better players! That would be mental!

[adrian lord]

I'm certain the Canaries must have jumped for joy when they saw the Saints' starting line-up yesterday with no Clyne and Shaw as launchpads for our attacks

[DuncanRG]

Just for reference: MP has now been with Saints for 19 games. He has a record of W6 D8 L5. Over the course of a full season that would yield 52 points, typically enough to secure an 8th place finish. Quite clearly that is very good. Although I do share the concerns of the last few games and that the progress we have made under MP seems to have regressed somewhat.

 

Get this on the banner between Rickie and Le Tissier.

[Turkish]

Just for reference: MP has now been with Saints for 19 games. He has a record of W6 D8 L5. Over the course of a full season that would yield 52 points, typically enough to secure an 8th place finish. Quite clearly that is very good. Although I do share the concerns of the last few games and that the progress we have made under MP seems to have regressed somewhat.

 

You sure mate? I make it won 5, D8, l6. 46 points over a season.

 

Yep checked

 

Wins against City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Reading and WBA

 

Losses against Man U, Spurs, Newcastle, QPR, Norwich, WBA

Edited 1 September, 2013 by Turkish

[shurlock]

People started talking because of the wins against Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool in close succession - the 3 games that pretty much kept us up. If you take those 3 games out of the equation, the record looks pretty poor and we didn't look like scoring at the back end of the season, which you can't really ignore - it's also manifesting it's self into this year.

 

We have stepped up in terms of our play though, our football is better and more structured but also more frustrating. A fine example is that of Man Utd last season, we played fantastically up at OT but just couldn't score a 2nd no matter how much we tried. We should have also beaten sunderland for all our possession.

 

Jury's still out in terms of results, however we do play better football and have more organisation about us - alas we look pretty boring to watch.

 

How much of it MP or key attacking players not turning up and our dependence on them. As much as I like him, Rickie's been poor for months -and we rely on the direct ball to move the ball quickly. AL has struggled for even longer -indeed our dip last season coincided with him returning to the team at the expense of Punch at Newcastle, though he has shown signs of improvement. Jrod has been boom and bust and faces little competition as our one only pacy player. Finally MP inherited the Ramirez problem and nobody's figured out how best to deploy him.

 

It was evident from last season that we were very dependent on the fullbacks for width -and Chambers and Fox for very different reasons are limited backups. With VW and Morgan in the side, there are doubts whether we really need JWP who, setpieces apart (though they were poor yesterday) doesn't offer enough IMO. Didn't do a very good job protecting Chambers yesterday and seemed averse to do much in the final third which is typical of his play. If he's going to start it should be in CM with one of Morgan, VW and Cork.

Edited 1 September, 2013 by shurlock

[SaintRichmond]

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's probably the fact of the case. I refuse to believe ponch plays Fox & Chambers cos he thinks they're better players! That would be mental!

 

Then why do you think he plays them ?? He MUST think they are better than Clynne and Shaw ...... unless their crutches and foot casts are well hidden on the subs bench

[Batman]

Then why do you think he plays them ?? He MUST think they are better than Clynne and Shaw ...... unless their crutches and foot casts are well hidden on the subs bench

 

obviously, that is the case

[david in sweden]

]He has left key players out of the team[/b]' date=' took AL off in the last two games when he looked one of our best players, moved our only pacy winger out on loan and we have only won one game in nine in the league with a last min penalty and bought players for near on 30 million who don't seem to be any better than we already had? I'm a bit worried.[/quote']

 

 

Which "key players" are we talking about.?

 

Looking at the bench....there was no Mayuka - who is hardly a regular, or Jack Cork - and whilst I agree that he was outstanding at times last season, that was last season, and this was an away game, and he's maybe not the best chice for that. Wanyama's signing meant we had to make way for someone in the short term and it wasn't going to be Schneiderlin or Lallana - was it ?

On the bench we had Hooiveld and Yoshida - who both have their fans and critics - but Lovren looks a good buy and Fonte has found some form after an indifferent end to last season.

 

Having paid out £15 million for Osvaldo - it was fairly obvious that Jay Rod would not go ahead of him, or would you have dropped Lambert ? (as one or two others have suggested)

 

Shaw took a nasty knock last week which slowed him up (and he was subbed at HT) so he probably wasn't up for a full 90 mins, and on this occasion, it would have been hard to say Fox had " a bad game ".

 

Puncheon had an exciting side to his game - when he had the ball - and scored a few spectacular goals - but heoften had long spells out if the action and didn't pass well and had an annoying tendency to try and beat the extra man all the time. However, I really didn't see him as a challenger for a start place every week. Of course he wanted to play regularly, and MP can't guarantee that to any player,

One quote from SFC said personal reasons and wanting to return to London. Fairs fair. He's out on loan - not permanently transferred - although this time Holloway may actually find the money to buy him.

 

We have seen three games against, what might be called mid-table opposition, and teams who carry a few beefy defenders at the back (who aren't inclined to take prisoners).

 

I think it is way too early to make any sort of judgements about tactics, choice of squad players in certain games ....and we won't see that until we are part way into the season.

Surely you can't be so worried ....remembering the start we had last season with a much inferior squad compared to this ?

 

Last season we saw that when playing against sides " who played with skill "... we were more than their match, both home and away - despite some disappointing results at times.

Edited 1 September, 2013 by david in sweden

[Webby]

...but had Ramirez scored 2...

 

That's the funniest thing I've read in ages!

[kpturner]

The jury is still very much out for me. Despite all the brash talk about how he was going to move us to the next level and so much better than Adkins, the proof is in the pudding and his recent record of one win in nine and only five goals is poor when you also take into account the opposition faced.

 

We have a number of good attacking options and he isn't getting the best out of them, we struggle to break teams down and his high pressure high energy game produces hard working teams but not creative one whcih is a travesty considering the players he has available.He's also been out thought tactically on several occasions and appears to be a bit of a one trick pony.

 

When you consider in our last nine league games we've only played 2 sides that finished in the top half of the table one win and five goals is pretty shocking.you can blame referees all you like but Thetis simply papering over the cracks that our recent form is poor and he's not been getting the best out of the players he has available.

Not picking on this post particularly as there are plenty of others saying similar things, but what is the point in including last season's games when analysing our form? It is completely pointless, since the players, position in the league and therefore tactics may be completely different at the end of a long season compared to the start of a new one. We need to look at this season with this set of players to assess form - and on the whole (albeit only over 3/4 games) it has been pretty good.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'll wager that he knows better than anybody on here.

[Bearsy]

Then why do you think he plays them ?? He MUST think they are better than Clynne and Shaw ...... unless their crutches and foot casts are well hidden on the subs bench

 

Cos of why I said! He thinks would be risky to their fitness!

[Glasgow_Saint]

Just for reference: MP has now been with Saints for 19 games. He has a record of W6 D8 L5. Over the course of a full season that would yield 52 points, typically enough to secure an 8th place finish. Quite clearly that is very good. Although I do share the concerns of the last few games and that the progress we have made under MP seems to have regressed somewhat.

 

 

 

Why have you added a win and taken off defeats?

[david in sweden]

This isn't against you Bearsy, but the philosophy you outline.

 

Having "unfit" or "not quite fit" or "carrying a knock" players on the bench makes no sense at all to me.

 

IMHO If you are "unfit", or "not quite fit", or "carrying a knock", then IMHO, you are UNFIT . End of. You are NOT fit to play

 

Only FULLY fit players should be on the bench. Come to that, in this modern professional game, only fully fit players should be in the starting eleven

 

 

 

I think that was the case yesterday - wasn't it? The start eleven had no reported injuries to contend with.

 

Shaw took a nasty kick last week (and was sensibly subbed at HT) but to make him play 90 mins. to prove whether " he is fully fit -or not " is hardly necessary we know his pedigree by now.

He may have been " fit enough " , but fortunately Fox covered well for most of the game and held up well against some strong, at times ferocious tackling, and I don't think it was necessary to bring him on.

 

Players only get match fit by playing games, and sometimes need to play their way in .......however being fit isn't always the key question.

 

Alan Shearer was once quoted as saying ..." .there's a lot of difference between being...... match fit, and being...... fit enough to play " .

 

At the start of a season, one might say that only those who had played a full pre-season and showed up well,and come through un-injured are properly match fit - such is not always the case.