Norwich Post Match Reaction

[Chewy]

Nail On The Head

 

Agreed. Tbh lambert is the conundrum for our team full stop. Our best goal scorer, and extremely intelligent, but slow, and not really a target man. So he has to be one of two strikers as he can't play there on his own, and not mobile enough as one of three behind. our tactics have required one striker, and if we change back to 2 up front like yesterday, we lose our creativity. So where does he fit??

[.comsaint]

Cork should have been in the squad yesterday and come on at HT for the awful Wanyama - who I assume just had an off-day yesterday. Ramirez should have stayed on the bench. Jayrod should have started too - in place of Osvaldo. Pochettino could have swapped Rickie for Osvaldo later on - if need be. And I have no idea of Poch's reasoning as to why he took Lallana off? Once again, we had absolutely no width at all. Just like Sunlan, everything was through the middle. Most of all though, the players looked like they were asked to play a new formation of sorts (possibly to accommodate Osvaldo)... but weren't quite sure what their jobs were. Either that - or too many had a complete off-day yesterday & played nowhere near the standard expected.

[Olallana]

You're completely right but they were both teenagers! Osvaldo is 27!

 

Henry was a teenager when he came to Arsenal?????

 

Ok....

[trousers]

Redmond today showed us what we have been missing for a long time. Width & pace.

 

If Lallana's effort had been a few inches to the right and Redmond's shot a few inches to the left this forum would be a completely different place last night and today. There's a fine line between love and despair

[Sour Mash]

Why not play Clyne? As harsh as it is on Chambers, Clyne is currently a better player. Could Shaw not play at all? Is it true he's had a falling out with MP? Regardless, without two full backs who can give us width our whole system doesn't work, we have no cutting edge.

 

It looks like MP doesn't know his best team - how to fit Lambert and Osvaldo together; how to get Ramirez in the team; how to play JWP without us losing width.

 

Wanyama has been good in my eyes, but he doesn't seem to bring the best out of Schneiderlin the way Cork did.

 

I thought Lovren looked good again, he's top draw.

 

Should have had a pen. Great effort from Lallana, who I thought played well.

 

We weren't terrible and Norwich weren't really the better team, but just didn't look like the sort of team I was expecting us to be this season. Expectations and all that I guess.

[johnnyboy]

Could Shaw not play at all? Is it true he's had a falling out with MP?

 

Is this actually true ? What have you heard ?

[pingwing]

Meh it was going to be 1-0 either way, we had a few chances they had a few. Readmond beat a very poor JWP/Chambers combination to score the only goal and its not the end of the world.

 

Loveren still looks class, Lallana is getting back into it properly and everyone else has someone waiting in the wings to come on and play. West Ham will be a much better affair when we get the few knocks sorted and have little more confidence.

 

Am amused to see he meltdown though

[Webby]

Why not play Clyne? As harsh as it is on Chambers, Clyne is currently a better player. Could Shaw not play at all? Is it true he's had a falling out with MP? Regardless, without two full backs who can give us width our whole system doesn't work, we have no cutting edge.

 

It looks like MP doesn't know his best team - how to fit Lambert and Osvaldo together; how to get Ramirez in the team; how to play JWP without us losing width.

 

 

I think we should just pick our best players (on form) for the system we choose to play. No question of how to get player a or player b into the side. Sod reputation. Sod transfer fee. No-one has a divine right to play. Play your best players. That's all.

[corky morris]

IF & IF!!! If Svensson had not got injured we would never have been relegated.

I have gone on about pace for 3 seasons. Its not knee-jerk. I said it in the summer again. Its an option we dont have. An option I would like us to have.

 

If Lallana's effort had been a few inches to the right and Redmond's shot a few inches to the left this forum would be a completely different place last night and today. There's a fine line between love and despair

[Delmary]

Meh it was going to be 1-0 either way, we had a few chances they had a few. Readmond beat a very poor JWP/Chambers combination to score the only goal and its not the end of the world.

 

Loveren still looks class, Lallana is getting back into it properly and everyone else has someone waiting in the wings to come on and play. West Ham will be a much better affair when we get the few knocks sorted and have little more confidence.

 

Am amused to see he meltdown though

 

This. It's far too early to make any judgements. Let's not forget that Man City lost last weekend to Cardiff. All teams, regardless of size will have good and bad days.

[OldNick]

IF & IF!!! If Svensson had not got injured we would never have been relegated.

I have gone on about pace for 3 seasons. Its not knee-jerk. I said it in the summer again. Its an option we dont have. An option I would like us to have.

I also would like to see pace in the side. I assume Mayuka was brought for that ,but he doesn't seem to cut it

[trousers]

IF & IF!!! If Svensson had not got injured we would never have been relegated.

 

Yep, because comparing fine lines in a close result with season changing events is like-for-like...

[green_gibbon]

I don't understand the Osvaldo bashing. When presented with the ball in the box, he got shots away and challenged the keeper - that's what we signed him for, right? If that cross had reached him and his bicycle kick had connected, we'd all be singing his praises.

 

Once he settles in and gets on the same wavelength as the rest of the team, he'll start slotting them in, I'm sure of it.

[S-Clarke]

I don't understand the Osvaldo bashing. When presented with the ball in the box, he got shots away and challenged the keeper - that's what we signed him for, right? If that cross had reached him and his bicycle kick had connected, we'd all be singing his praises.

 

Once he settles in and gets on the same wavelength as the rest of the team, he'll start slotting them in, I'm sure of it.

 

I can't see any Osvaldo bashing?

[green_gibbon]

I can't see any Osvaldo bashing?

I just read the first 3 pages of this thread after watching MotD and he was described as both "lightweight" and a "waste of space". Anyway, just offering my opinion and I reckon he looked neither of those things. He provided our only 2 shots on target after all.

[Baird of the land]

Finally back home after going up to Norwich to watch the game. Saints were dogged but lacked much cutting edge. Both fullbacks in particular were clearly in trouble(chambers got forward but had a really tough afternoon with Redmond) while fox seemed so intent on not screwing up defensively that all he seemed able to do was pass it back to Lovren. Lovren was my MOTM for saints, what a player he is!

 

Boruc:6 (Taken off guard for the goal but otherwise looked decent)

CHambers: 5 (Rough afternoon for the lad, hopefully clyne will be back next week

Fox: 5 (limited but not terrible but need shaw back to give us attacking impetus.

Lovren: 8 (superb never seemed to miss anything)

Fonte: 7 (Solid game by fonte)

Wanyama: 7 (Needs to improve his passing and shooting but certainly gives us muscle in the middle but outdone by their guy fer)

Schneiderlin: 6 (Worked hard)

JWP: 4 (real off day for the lad. Outmuscled by their mid and offered nothing going forward. Should have been off when Davis came on.

Lallana: 7 (bright sometimes trying to do too much and delaying the shot. Really unlucky with the shot off post and unlucky to be taken off)

Lambert: 6 (Some lovely layoffs and lovely ball in to jrod at the end that i felt sure was going to be the equaliser. Playing too deep for my liking and his freekick effort was poor.

Osvaldo: 5 (I'll give him time. He still hasn't developed an understanding with others and he really should have been off much earlier for jrod.

 

Subs:

Davis: 6 (Gave us energy and unfortunately snatched shot when well placed)

Jrod: 6 (Real difference was the understanding he had with others and he'd no doubt have a higher stat if he'd been on longer)

Ramirez: 4 (So frustrating as he is so talented. Had a glorious chance to chance but utterly refused to shoot. Several times just gave the ball away cheaply.

[Roger]

Finally back home after going up to Norwich to watch the game. Saints were dogged but lacked much cutting edge. Both fullbacks in particular were clearly in trouble(chambers got forward but had a really tough afternoon with Redmond) while fox seemed so intent on not screwing up defensively that all he seemed able to do was pass it back to Lovren. Lovren was my MOTM for saints, what a player he is!

 

Boruc:6 (Taken off guard for the goal but otherwise looked decent)

CHambers: 5 (Rough afternoon for the lad, hopefully clyne will be back next week

Fox: 5 (limited but not terrible but need shaw back to give us attacking impetus.

Lovren: 8 (superb never seemed to miss anything)

Fonte: 7 (Solid game by fonte)

Wanyama: 7 (Needs to improve his passing and shooting but certainly gives us muscle in the middle but outdone by their guy fer)

Schneiderlin: 6 (Worked hard)

JWP: 4 (real off day for the lad. Outmuscled by their mid and offered nothing going forward. Should have been off when Davis came on.

Lallana: 7 (bright sometimes trying to do too much and delaying the shot. Really unlucky with the shot off post and unlucky to be taken off)

Lambert: 6 (Some lovely layoffs and lovely ball in to jrod at the end that i felt sure was going to be the equaliser. Playing too deep for my liking and his freekick effort was poor.

Osvaldo: 5 (I'll give him time. He still hasn't developed an understanding with others and he really should have been off much earlier for jrod.

 

Subs:

Davis: 6 (Gave us energy and unfortunately snatched shot when well placed)

Jrod: 6 (Real difference was the understanding he had with others and he'd no doubt have a higher stat if he'd been on longer)

Ramirez: 4 (So frustrating as he is so talented. Had a glorious chance to chance but utterly refused to shoot. Several times just gave the ball away cheaply.

 

Wanyama was awful, more like 4.

[trousers]

So, three games in and we're on the same number of points as Man Utd. Perhaps we should lend our razor blades to their fans once we've finished with them.

[Convict Colony]

Don't know if this was posted but this just shows that Lambert and Osvaldo basically played in the same spot yesterday as they are virtually overlapping each other, Osvaldo is faster so I think we know how this is gonna end.

 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694927/team-stats/20/OVERALL_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

[DuncanRG]

Don't know if this was posted but this just shows that Lambert and Osvaldo basically played in the same spot yesterday as they are virtually overlapping each other, Osvaldo is faster so I think we know how this is gonna end.

 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694927/team-stats/20/OVERALL_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

 

Shows how short we had to come to find space. Norwich held us out very well and without any width from Clyne and Shaw we didn't know where to go. Kept trying to cut through balls in but the movement wasn't quite sharp enough to fool the defenders.

[Window Cleaner]

We couldn't play Shaw if he's off to manure for 20 mill on Monday.

 

or perhaps he just wants not to have to duck out of the England U21s yet again. But for 20 million I'd certainly sell him cos he's not worth that .

[Faz]

I wonder what the Spurs forums are like right now?

[kpturner]

Wanyama was awful, more like 4.

Did you watch the game then Rog? Managed to get the stream working?

[shirleysfc]

I wonder what the Spurs forums are like right now?

 

No goals from open play and it looks like their £25m+ striker can only score from the pen spot.

Edited 1 September, 2013 by shirleysfc

[Barry Sanchez]

Probably like ours, but why compare, I am not arsed what Spurs fans think or do.

[OldNick]

Probably like ours, but why compare, I am not arsed what Spurs fans think or do.

 

You get the point though

[shirleysfc]

Probably like ours, but why compare, I am not arsed what Spurs fans think or do.

 

Lol. Why comment then?

[shirleysfc]

...

[Smirking_Saint]

Agreed. Tbh lambert is the conundrum for our team full stop. Our best goal scorer, and extremely intelligent, but slow, and not really a target man. So he has to be one of two strikers as he can't play there on his own, and not mobile enough as one of three behind. our tactics have required one striker, and if we change back to 2 up front like yesterday, we lose our creativity. So where does he fit??

 

He doesnt

[Batman]

TBH

Would like to this team, although, against west ham, lambert is a great battler and is as good defending set pieces as attacking them for us

 

Team

 

Boruc

 

Clyne

Fonte

Lovren

Shaw

 

Wanyama

Morgan

Davis

 

Lallana

Rodriguez

 

Osvaldo

[Dr Who?]

Jesus WBA look in terrible shape and still not scored, but also Sunderland looked terrible at the back, not lie last week!

 

Spurs will finish in the top 4/5 I think, they have a bloody good squad. Liverpool will fall away, as per normal.

[Dr Who?]

TBH

Would like to this team, although, against west ham, lambert is a great battler and is as good defending set pieces as attacking them for us

 

Team

 

Boruc

 

Clyne

Fonte

Lovren

Shaw

 

Wanyama

Morgan

Davis

 

Lallana

Rodriguez

 

Osvaldo

 

I would leave lambert in for the West Ham game, from the start as I think he will get at them. Straight swap him for JRod if not working out.

[captainchris]

We were dominating teams right left and center. Other teams seemed to be doing what we were. In our faces from the off. Long way to go but not sure we have the right formation. We seem very narrow and afraid to shoot from outside the box. Oh and please let JWP take the direct free kicks. RL your last few have been awful and hit the wall.

 

100% correct - we are too narrow and have not yet played like last year when we were closing down and that actually stopped happening about five games from the end of last season. IF WE DONT CLOSE DOWN we will not beat teams as they are all doing it now - except us. We have stopped winning the ball in the opposition half which means we are ponderously building from deep with no pace. We have not scored in open play and are unlikely to very soon unless we up the effort put in further up the pitch. This is the only way our narrow system can work. So there needs to be quite a radical change in the future games or our ponderous play will be of little threat...... Whilst tinkering with personnel is one thing, the tactics need enforcing properly. On a separate issue some our signings do seem to be very worrying with Rimirez being top of my list for concern at 12.5m if it was my money.....AL must be worth zillions as he is a far better player.

[LostBoys]

Disappointing day out in Norwich with a below par performance. We seemed sluggish and too slow in the build up but could have still won. Lallana played better than of late but I am not keen on his double step overs as he approaches the goal as it just gives the defenders time to adjust. Never mind and its a bit too early to slit wrists write players off etc

[sammysaint]

MoPo bashing, but deserved, Lallana should of stayed on, JWP and Chambers are both good players, but im sorry bench again for them lads, we need width and pace that Punch and Clyne provided last season, we need Clyne back at RB and we need Lallana or Jay Rod on he right to provide that bit of pace ( ok not loads but quicker then JWP) and skill to produce a cross or cut in.

 

The great thing is this year we look more solid at the back and im confident once we take the lead in the game before the end, with our 60-65% possession were see out games or teams will press us and were get a 2nd goal, WHUFC will get frustrated should we get a early goal, if we beat WHUFC this forum will all be happy again and talking of top 8 finish again.

 

I said this year top 10 and i think as long as we do that its a good season with the money we spent we need finish at least 3 positions higher then last season and a good cup run, these can both still be achieved, if we lose to WHUFC, then il agree top 8 will become harder, but its not over.

[JoeShmoe]

From what I saw we really missed our full backs, they are so important in the formation we play to provide width (see Shaw at WBA). Barring injury if Clyne and Shaw arent starting vs WHU I will really be asking selection questions because Chambers and Fix are nowhere near their quality

 

I thought Osvaldo was OK and had the best of our chances, I though Rickie was slow and he is starting to look his age sadly, much like Holt did after his magic season for Norwich

 

Sooner or later we will have to play Osvaldo up top, off the last man as i think he'll be the one to make the runs in behind which Rickie just doesn't do

 

Davis too seems to really pep us up when he plays as he moves the ball quickly and a lot of the play seems to go through him

 

I'd really like to see this team although i suspect we wont

 

Boruc

 

Clyne

Lovren

Fonte/Yoshi

Shaw

 

Wanyama

Schneiderlin

 

JRod

Davis

Lallana

 

Osvaldo

[Stubby]

Agreed. Tbh lambert is the conundrum for our team full stop. Our best goal scorer, and extremely intelligent, but slow, and not really a target man. So he has to be one of two strikers as he can't play there on his own, and not mobile enough as one of three behind. our tactics have required one striker, and if we change back to 2 up front like yesterday, we lose our creativity. So where does he fit??

 

If he can't play either up front or in midfield, why had he just been picked for England?

[saint1977]

Not a great performance but neither a terrible one. The full backs made the difference - Chambers had a torrid time and will learn from that, Fox was solid but in order to compete at this level he's had to evolve into a true defender and rein in his attacking instincts. So this meant that we had little width with Shaw and Clyne not 100%. I'd imagine the club were under a bit of pressure to ensure Shaw was fit to play for England U21s. Need to urgently get another full back or RM in today if this is the system we are going to deploy this season so hopefully we've agreed fees and medical/s booked as we speak.

 

CBs both played well although thought Fonte fouled Snodgrass and definately a handball at the other end. Midfield was the most disappointing, VW good so far but lost possession too easily at Carrow and MP should have brought Cork on at HT for JWP who got monstered, that's if he'd included him in the squad.

 

That said, the game could have gone either way and Carrow Rd will be a bit of a fortress this season, can't see them losing too many games there, even to Man U etc. Adam is playing much better so far, getting nearer to his pre-Reading injury form.

[influx]

How many games have we played? 3?

 

Just checking!

[benjii]

100% correct - we are too narrow and have not yet played like last year when we were closing down and that actually stopped happening about five games from the end of last season. IF WE DONT CLOSE DOWN we will not beat teams as they are all doing it now - except us. We have stopped winning the ball in the opposition half which means we are ponderously building from deep with no pace. We have not scored in open play and are unlikely to very soon unless we up the effort put in further up the pitch. This is the only way our narrow system can work. So there needs to be quite a radical change in the future games or our ponderous play will be of little threat...... Whilst tinkering with personnel is one thing, the tactics need enforcing properly. On a separate issue some our signings do seem to be very worrying with Rimirez being top of my list for concern at 12.5m if it was my money.....AL must be worth zillions as he is a far better player.

 

This is ******** though, isn't it? Do you honestly believe that? That it is unlikely we will score a goal from open play - "soon"? If so, you are mental.

 

Both Lambert and Rodriguez should have scored from open play against Sunderland. It wasn't lack of pace or playing narrowly which forced them to screw up good chances. Lallana hit the post against Norwich.

 

We are creating chances and, significantly, we are looking pretty solid at the back which suggests to me that once one or two of our forward players hit some better form we will have a good recipe for winning matches.

 

Even if we accept that we lack width and pace (and I agree to an extent, without Shaw and Clyne that we do, although it doesn't merit the usual hysterics) this will be largely remedied once Clyne and Shaw are back in the team. I don't think Pochettino thinks that Chambers and Fox are better. And if all we really need is "pace and width" (things which Rodriguez can actually provide anyway) to radically improve then expect to see more game time for Isgrove and Rowe as the season progresses.

 

The injection of new pace and width would basically mean that at least one of: Lallana, Ramirez, Rodriguez (and potentially Lambert and Osvaldo) would get very little game time. I think the club has taken the decision that it is worth perservering with those players and giving them a good chance. If Lallana and Ramirez continue to give performances which suggest they are not fitting well into the Premier League then I would expect to see changes but, for now, I agree with the approach. As noted, we also have plenty of fast youngsters who we can give some "impact" time to if necessary. I'm annoyed to see Puncheon go as he is more effective than Lallana or Ramirez but it sounds like he really wanted to move back to London.

 

We have played three games, two away, taken four points and looked very solid. Beat West Ham and it will be seven from four matches, which is top 6 form.

[captainchris]

This is ******** though, isn't it? Do you honestly believe that? That it is unlikely we will score a goal from open play - "soon"? If so, you are mental.

 

Both Lambert and Rodriguez should have scored from open play against Sunderland. It wasn't lack of pace or playing narrowly which forced them to screw up good chances. Lallana hit the post against Norwich.

 

We are creating chances and, significantly, we are looking pretty solid at the back which suggests to me that once one or two of our forward players hit some better form we will have a good recipe for winning matches.

 

Even if we accept that we lack width and pace (and I agree to an extent, without Shaw and Clyne that we do, although it doesn't merit the usual hysterics) this will be largely remedied once Clyne and Shaw are back in the team. I don't think Pochettino thinks that Chambers and Fox are better. And if all we really need is "pace and width" (things which Rodriguez can actually provide anyway) to radically improve then expect to see more game time for Isgrove and Rowe as the season progresses.

 

The injection of new pace and width would basically mean that at least one of: Lallana, Ramirez, Rodriguez (and potentially Lambert and Osvaldo) would get very little game time. I think the club has taken the decision that it is worth perservering with those players and giving them a good chance. If Lallana and Ramirez continue to give performances which suggest they are not fitting well into the Premier League then I would expect to see changes but, for now, I agree with the approach. As noted, we also have plenty of fast youngsters who we can give some "impact" time to if necessary. I'm annoyed to see Puncheon go as he is more effective than Lallana or Ramirez but it sounds like he really wanted to move back to London.

 

We have played three games, two away, taken four points and looked very solid. Beat West Ham and it will be seven from four matches, which is top 6 form.

 

Whilst I respect your opinion I am not 'mental' thankyou !

Please try to put your point across without resorting to such derogatory remarks which are entirely uncalled for and unnecessary. I realise you have your own opinion so just stick to that!

[influx]

Whilst I respect your opinion I am not 'mental' thankyou !

Please try to put your point across without resorting to such derogatory remarks which are entirely uncalled for and unnecessary. I realise you have your own opinion so just stick to that!

 

Your post suggests otherwise so he has every right to question your sanity to be fair.

 

Can't believe the amount of negativity on this site after 3 matches FFS. Some of you must really be miserable b%stards in real life.

[S-Clarke]

 

 

Your post suggests otherwise so he has every right to question your sanity to be fair.

 

Can't believe the amount of negativity on this site after 3 matches FFS. Some of you must really be miserable b%stards in real life.

 

3 matches in which we're 10th, into the next round of the cup and have as many points as we did in October last year. I'd say it's a pretty solid start.

 

Alot is being made of our failure to score from open play as well, well...we were 1 inch away from scoring from open play on Saturday (lallana). We still create chances from open play, maybe not enough...but it will change, we've got too many good attacking players for it not to.

[alpine_saint]

3 matches in which we're 10th, into the next round of the cup and have as many points as we did in October last year. I'd say it's a pretty solid start.

 

 

A "solid" start that's cost over 30m.

[Dig Dig]

A "solid" start that's cost over 30m.

 

Are you expecting us to win the league or something?

[Olallana]

A "solid" start that's cost over 30m.

 

Costs for football teams can only be decided when a player leaves. When you invest in football players they are financially considered as assetts and to determine the cost you need to sell them first and find out the difference between money out to money in + what you have payed in wages and other player related fees.

 

Other financial aspects in football that is common use is to divide the transfer sum with amount of years on the contract to determine what the player "cost" every year....

 

Or do you think Ramirez should be considered as a £12m outlay every single year he stays in the club??

If people dismissed him last year as a £12m waste he then should be considered as a free this year I would presume to be fair....

[Giordano]

 

 

Your post suggests otherwise so he has every right to question your sanity to be fair.

 

Can't believe the amount of negativity on this site after 3 matches FFS. Some of you must really be miserable b%stards in real life.

 

Influx - sadly, you are totally correct. Some posters seem to post on here only to share the misery of their morose, permanently cynical, negative lives with the rest. And perhaps to provoke those feelings in others as revenge for the way they feel about life themselves. Saints is a good alibi for whatever relief they can get from dark side glass half empty thinking. Nobody is really too bothered with the positive supporter who may or may not be an idiot - but the constant sourpuss unites everyone with the ability, no matter what the circumstances, to find fault and drag you down into despair and woe is me thinking. They are about as popular here as scabies. If the quality and content of some only occasionally matched the quality of the cynicism and black-rimmed contrariness then it would be tolerable. But it does not. Good quality well reasoned cynicism is a great skill, but blanket one negative approach fits all cynicism is not a skill. Its just reactionary nihilism.

[kpturner]

A "solid" start that's cost over 30m.

So your preference is a terrible start that cost £0m perhaps?

[S-Clarke]

So your preference is a terrible start that cost £0m perhaps?

 

He's pointless debating with, don't bother.

[Daren W]

A "solid" start that's cost over 30m.

But at least we're showing some ambition?

You'd be critical if we didn't spend money. We have. You can't have it all. This season is going to be close across the board as a lot of top teams haven't strengthened that much but the teams below have. Norwich have spent good amounts of money, away they were always going to be a challenge. We didn't perform, that much has been debated to death, but we still "only" lost 1-0 so it's not quite an absolute disaster.

We can't pass that much judgement after 3 games. If come Christmas we're faltering then we have a problem but surely not just in August? Surely?