Rickie Lambert - England Qualifiers

[SNSUN]

I was listening to talk sport this morning where they were taking about this article and having read the comments on here I was expecting a slamming of Rickie lambert. What we got was a perfectly well written agile making valid pints. As usual the helmets on here and talk sport express their 'outrage' over absolutely nothing.

 

I like perfectly valid pints. :-D

 

As for the quote

t is, as Roy Hodgson conceded, complicated. In Kiev on Tuesday, England’s hopes of reaching the World Cup finals in Brazil may rest on the shoulders of a player who we must believe somehow travelled below the radar of every elite coach, scout and manager in the country until the age of 31.

 

that's a bit harsh on the coaches and scouts of the lower league clubs that knew about his talent years ago, as Saints did when we signed him, unless I'm reading that quote wrongly. Aside from that, I agree, it is a good article.

 

I'm very excited for the Ukraine game, imagine how we'd be feeling, imagine how Rickie would be feeling, had he got picked for a World Cup untested and all this fairytale was happening at the tournament! Unlikely but it makes you think. If England go to the World Cup, and Rickie goes with them, I'll be supporting England like never before.

[Colinjb]

May be relevant for any future qualifiers. "Glass Joe" has done it again:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24027052

[Bearsy]

Nah is only foot injury. Shouldn't affect his game.

[S-Clarke]

Nah is only foot injury. Shouldn't affect his game.

 

..

[Charlie Wayman]

Yeah, good enough for Roy but will he be good enough for Pochettino on Sunday? I mean for starters he won't be able to grow a pony tail in time...

 

We'll love him even more after tonight, good job the transfer window's closed or we'd have Wenger & Moyes sniffing around.

 

Good luck Ricky. Come on you Saint!

[holepuncture]

Roy saying all the right things here for me

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24026289

 

Looks like he rates Rickie quite highly as a useful part of the squad.

 

I read that in a Woy Hodgson accent, tremendous.

[the saint in winchester]

I read that in a Woy Hodgson accent, tremendous.

 

Haha, I did too. Imagined Woy saying it, tweemendous.

 

Wicky is there for the long term. Woy is right behind him now. PonyTail is off the radar. Ricky is the 4th striker for the WC now. Others (Defoe et al) won't get a chance to replace him. Roy has seen what he does for us. Not just a target man, he creates and assists, bringing the best out of others.

[Wes Tender]

Can you explain what bit of that article demonstrates the media being "hell bent on English failure"?

 

Seriously, pick a sentence. Or two if you like.

 

 

It is difficult to know what to make of Lambert. In the long term, a 31-year-old does not represent England’s future and in reality he seems unlikely to trouble the world’s best defences

 

This is as close as I could get to anything contentious. Why shouldn't he be able to trouble the world's best defences? Which ones are we speaking about? And surely the defences of glory teams in the Premier Division are comprised often of players equally as good or better than those representing most national teams and he has managed to score against those. And when they say that he seems unlikely to trouble the world's best defences, troubling them isn't exclusively to do with him scoring goals himself, as he is also eminently capable of providing the assists to provide others with the scoring opportunities. Or isn't he deemed capable of that against the top teams either?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Doh. I KNOW that. I've built the whole bloody weekend around being in Nick the Greek's at 12:30 & in the Mega Store to NOT buy a shirt on Thursday. Me & Mrs D_P will be there! (In my defence it was late when I saw that.)

 

Meanwhile

 

Here is a PROPER article about Rickie.

 

From the Fail & Samuels no less. And it says it as we see it - good input from Woy

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2416411/Ukraine-v-England-A-real-test-Rickie-Lambert--Martin-Samuel.html

 

 

 

 

Actually worth the read

 

All that article says is he may be good, he may not. Poor again from Samuel.

[Turkish]

This is as close as I could get to anything contentious. Why shouldn't he be able to trouble the world's best defences? Which ones are we speaking about? And surely the defences of glory teams in the Premier Division are comprised often of players equally as good or better than those representing most national teams and he has managed to score against those. And when they say that he seems unlikely to trouble the world's best defences, troubling them isn't exclusively to do with him scoring goals himself, as he is also eminently capable of providing the assists to provide others with the scoring opportunities. Or isn't he deemed capable of that against the top teams either?

 

I know you've got me on ignore as I frequently make you look a clown but yet again you're at it. Is that really the best that you can come up with? At 31 years old he doesn't represent the future does he. As for not troubling the worlds best defences are you absolutely 100% sure that he will and that he will go on to spearhead England's march to glory in brazil?

[Barry the Badger]

 

that's a bit harsh on the coaches and scouts of the lower league clubs that knew about his talent years ago, as Saints did when we signed him.

 

As much as a huge amount of credit should go to those that were involved in bringing him here, he was bought for League 1 and The Championship and I don't suppose anybody at the club really thought that four years later he would be leading the line for England in a World Cup qualifier having been the top English Premier League goalscorer.

 

I think what people overlook is that he wasn't this good at 27. He has got better and better every year he's been with us. It's not that the elite coaches and scouts were missing anything, it just wasn't there at the time (well it was, but it wasn't showing).

[Giordano]

Either way tonight Rickie got what he deserves with his caps and goals.

 

Of course i want the story to continue with another good performance and a goal or two but even if he plays below average he has already done enough for me and broken down preconceptions about Southampton, its players and our style. A great advert for our club he is and is being. Talk about an Ambassador role - he is doing fantastic work marketing Southampton to the outside world. Instantly likeable and respected.

 

The next wave of younger players : Shaw, JWP, Clyne and JRod even Chambers will have that little bit extra confidence from seeing what has happened to Rickie. If Cole or Baine get injured it wont be such a big deal if Luke gets called up for instance. Quite seriously, at the rate at which these strikers seem to pick up injuries it would only take some consistent starts and a few goals from him before Jrod was called up as well, especially if Rickie was his strike partner...now there's a thought......

[Giordano]

As much as a huge amount of credit should go to those that were involved in bringing him here, he was bought for League 1 and The Championship and I don't suppose anybody at the club really thought that four years later he would be leading the line for England in a World Cup qualifier having been the top English Premier League goalscorer.

 

I think what people overlook is that he wasn't this good at 27. He has got better and better every year he's been with us. It's not that the elite coaches and scouts were missing anything, it just wasn't there at the time (well it was, but it wasn't showing).

 

Great observation. Quite right. He was a good player for his level before he came to Saints, but at Saints he has accelerated development and maximised his potential through good coaching and playing with a proper football team.

[CB Fry]

This is as close as I could get to anything contentious. Why shouldn't he be able to trouble the world's best defences? Which ones are we speaking about? And surely the defences of glory teams in the Premier Division are comprised often of players equally as good or better than those representing most national teams and he has managed to score against those. And when they say that he seems unlikely to trouble the world's best defences, troubling them isn't exclusively to do with him scoring goals himself, as he is also eminently capable of providing the assists to provide others with the scoring opportunities. Or isn't he deemed capable of that against the top teams either?

 

Well, it's nothing more than debatable, except the "he's not the future" bit which is just true.

 

Andy Carroll can and has scored against the "glory teams" in the Premier League too.

 

No one is "deeming" anyone capable of anything. But it seems unlikely Lambert is going to turn into an international superhero from here.

 

I'm enjoying his cameo thus far.

[wild-saint]

Well, it's nothing more than debatable, except the "he's not the future" bit which is just true.

 

Andy Carroll can and has scored against the "glory teams" in the Premier League too.

 

No one is "deeming" anyone capable of anything. But it seems unlikely Lambert is going to turn into an international superhero from here.

 

I'm enjoying his cameo thus far.

 

With comparisons being made with Teddy Sheringham, it is worth noting he played his last international at the age of 36. If SRL does turn out to favourably compare to sheringham and play well into his twilight years then would the next 4 years be considered the future of English inernational football?

 

Not saying he will play that long but if he keep fit then does his style of football if considered a decent option for England not mean who could be around for the forseeable future? The amount of talented english forwards seems pretty limited althrough the rank U21 & U20 to be fair.

[eelpie]

I think Hodgson has been surprised by Lambert's ability, which suggests he hasn't watched him closely enough. No saints fan or anyone watching 10+ saints game would be surprised by the technique or passing at all. Even in the championship it was evident. I still don't see the problem of giving a championship striker a chance in a friendly sometime. I get the impression they aren't even watched, but the simple fact is, with most teams playing 1 up front, there's half the opportunities for a striker in the premier league now. And what fraction are english? Doesn't leave much room does it.

 

Kind of hope football moves on again and we see the return of the strike partnership as it's always been one of my favourite parts of the game, really good link up play between too perfectly complimentary strikers. Too much obsession with wide forwards now rather than wingers, all pace and little end product bar a few exceptional talents. Guess it's difficult for one team to step up and play an open game like that again though when most others are packing the midfield.

 

Couldn't agree more. There's always lots of talent in all the leagues and even in reserve teams that don't get the opportunities to develop their skills to their potential for one reason or another (like Sharp for example).

[wild-saint]

Couldn't agree more. There's always lots of talent in all the leagues and even in reserve teams that don't get the opportunities to develop their skills to their potential for one reason or another (like Sharp for example).

 

I think its fair to say SRL took his game to a new dimension when he joined saints through the focus on professional Fitness, Diet and conditioning programmes. The improvement in these areas has allowed the undoubted talent shine through at a higher level. It could be argued that Sharp could do with focusing in these areas to help him make that step up in grade. The lower leagues have always produced talent that never really got the chance to shine, one that comes to mind was Lee trundle who had plenty of skill /technique but the whole physical side of the game again let him down.

[farawaysaint]

Well, it's nothing more than debatable, except the "he's not the future" bit which is just true.

 

Andy Carroll can and has scored against the "glory teams" in the Premier League too.

 

No one is "deeming" anyone capable of anything. But it seems unlikely Lambert is going to turn into an international superhero from here.

 

I'm enjoying his cameo thus far.

 

I was hoping to nail you with statistics but unfortunately you are right, Carroll's career record season by season isn't nearly as bad as I remember and yet I was convinced he was a useless donkey. Shows how much I know

Edited 10 September, 2013 by farawaysaint

[Colinjb]

I think Hodgson has been surprised by Lambert's ability, which suggests he hasn't watched him closely enough. No saints fan or anyone watching 10+ saints game would be surprised by the technique or passing at all. Even in the championship it was evident. I still don't see the problem of giving a championship striker a chance in a friendly sometime. I get the impression they aren't even watched, but the simple fact is, with most teams playing 1 up front, there's half the opportunities for a striker in the premier league now. And what fraction are english? Doesn't leave much room does it.

 

Kind of hope football moves on again and we see the return of the strike partnership as it's always been one of my favourite parts of the game, really good link up play between too perfectly complimentary strikers. Too much obsession with wide forwards now rather than wingers, all pace and little end product bar a few exceptional talents. Guess it's difficult for one team to step up and play an open game like that again though when most others are packing the midfield.

 

The emergence of the 'wing' forward as it where is actually something I quite enjoy, particularly when it's used as effectively as it has been by us in recent years to get the best out of Rickie.

 

The best moves against Moldova and with us at times have been when the quick man has switched roles with the centre forward, All of a sudden the fullbacks have someone standing off them and the centre backs having someone taking the game directly at them. This can wrong-foot the rhythm of the defending team and with the service someone like Rickie can provide from the wing feeding his fellow attacker (Welbeck, Rodriguez, etc) it can cause a lot of damage.

 

With Welbeck out I can see Lambert being encouraged to work with Walcott in the same way tonight with Milner trying to snuff out any threat the Ukraine will have from the other wing. Whether Theo can link up in the same way we'll see. He has the pace to make it work, but end product? Well, I always rated him as a better finisher then Welbeck... could be wrong.

[HK_Phoey]

So will Ricky wear the number 9 shirt?

 

Personally hope he does. Know he wears 7 for us but 9 was always the traditional shirt for a centre forward.

[Giordano]

So will Ricky wear the number 9 shirt?

 

Personally hope he does. Know he wears 7 for us but 9 was always the traditional shirt for a centre forward.

 

I was thinking about that too....I cant see Woy NOT giving the shirt to Rickie and THAT would be the icing on the cake for Rickie (and for me to be honest- id be so chuffed to bits for him) - wearing the number nine shirt for England...quite something and that is one shirt you would never give away or swop with anyones.........

[Professor]

Amused to read Martin Samuel in The Mail Online saying "Lambert’s movement and reading of the game will be tested like never before at international level."

 

I suppose Samuel would never believe that a striker playing his first Premier League game for a club promoted as runners-up from the Championship, could come off the bench against the League Champions at their ground and score an equalising goal against a defence stuffed with international players. Just couldn't happen. Could it?

[buctootim]

Amused to read Martin Samuel in The Mail Online saying "Lambert’s movement and reading of the game will be tested like never before at international level."

 

I suppose Samuel would never believe that a striker playing his first Premier League game for a club promoted as runners-up from the Championship, could come off the bench against the League Champions at their ground and score an equalising goal against a defence stuffed with international players. Just couldn't happen. Could it?

 

Without going all Turkish and dull - whats the problem with what he wrote? Rickie has inly played against Scotland and Moldova so clearly Ukraine will be a sterner test.

[Colinjb]

Without going all Turkish and dull - whats the problem with what he wrote? Rickie has inly played against Scotland and Moldova so clearly Ukraine will be a sterner test.

 

I suppose it depends on which part of the statement you take in isolation.

 

'Tested like never before' or

 

'Tested like never before at International level.'

 

As above, I would agree that he has already been tested against better teams with us last year. So yes, while he may not have been tested like this in an England shirt I am confident he's up to it.

Edited 10 September, 2013 by Colinjb

[davefizzy14]

I was thinking about that too....I cant see Woy NOT giving the shirt to Rickie and THAT would be the icing on the cake for Rickie (and for me to be honest- id be so chuffed to bits for him) - wearing the number nine shirt for England...quite something and that is one shirt you would never give away or swop with anyones.........

 

Fully agreed, well said Giordano. Rickie deserves it, you never know he might even get the number 7 shirt

[Verbal Kint]

Do find it odd. Yes, Ukraine is a tough game, they're a good and proud team, but don't pretend they're better than Man Utd or Chelsea, both of whom Lambert has played very well against.

 

That's what i don't quite understand about the whole "he isn't good enough for England" line. If he can do it against the best teams in the Premier League then he's perfectly capable of playing for England and competing against the likes of Ukraine

[jjsaint]

I do think he's 'good enough for England'. However whether he’s ‘good enough' or not is irrelevant. Being ‘good enough’ can no longer be used as a selection criterion in a post-Heskey world.

[Nigel=God-Poyet=Sod]

Without going all Turkish and dull - whats the problem with what he wrote? Rickie has inly played against Scotland and Moldova so clearly Ukraine will be a sterner test.

Not necessarily what he wrote, but who said it. Samuels is a fat clueless idiot.

[Summers]

Not necessarily what he wrote, but who said it. Samuels is a fat clueless idiot.

 

This.

[mulletsaint]

Not necessarily what he wrote, but who said it. Samuels is a fat clueless idiot.

 

Christ there are some pointless arguments on here.

 

Personally while I'm not a big fan of the Daily Mail, I think the Martin Samuels piece is good. He states that it's going to be tough for Rickie, while at the same time agreeing that he's yet to put a foot wrong. He even uses Teddy as an example of a player without pace, who many thought couldn't adapt to the highest level, but who at the end of his career is seen as being part of one of the most successful forward partnerships of the last 20-30 years. Seems to me he wants the guy to succeed, but equally wont be surprised if he doesn't.

 

At least he acknowledges Rickie's real talent, unlike the piece from the same paper last weekend that essentially had him down as an Ox of a man who relied on brute strength with little or no technical ability.

[Bearsy]

Christ there are some pointless arguments on here.

 

no there aren't.

[simo]

Hopefully after Ricky puts in a good shift tonight thoses who are still doubting his credentials will shut up !

[buctootim]

no there aren't.

 

You've haven't paid for that argument, again.

[Giordano]

Would just like to wish Rickie Lambert good luck later today as Southampton take on Ukraine in a vital World Cup qualifier. Hopefully with a good result then Rickie and Southampton will be that much closer to playing in the Brazil World Cup 2014. And of course the ultimate achievement would be when Rickie lifted the trophy and Southampton actually win the World Cup. Elsewhere Osvaldo is also playing for Southampton versus Czechoslovakia in another important match for Saints so Forza Osvaldo! #saintsfc :-)

[Professor]

Without going all Turkish and dull - whats the problem with what he wrote? Rickie has inly played against Scotland and Moldova so clearly Ukraine will be a sterner test.

Just to explain my criticism - and sorry if words such as grandmother, eggs and suck come to mind - The Premier League is largely populated by teams packed with full international players, none more so than the top 4 or 5 clubs. There was a time when international football was a step up from Division One of the Football League and even from the Premiership in its early days, but that is no longer the case. For Rickie to play against The Ukraine is no different to playing against Man City. It could be argued that he has a stronger team around him, although it could be debateable whether the England side is stronger than the Southampton team, given the international players now in the Saints' side. I simply disagree with the Mail writer that Rickie will face any stronger test tonight than he does in the Premier League against the likes of Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, etc, etc...

[Lets B Avenue]

Who gives a toss about the future? (Other than Greg Dyke. Apparently.)

 

Its all about this season. Qualifying and then the World Cup. Gerrard and Lampard are hardly the future.

[CB Fry]

Who gives a toss about the future? (Other than Greg Dyke. Apparently.)

 

Its all about this season.

 

Someone tell Cortese to shut that effing Academy down. Waste of time.

[Batman]

Just to explain my criticism - and sorry if words such as grandmother, eggs and suck come to mind - The Premier League is largely populated by teams packed with full international players, none more so than the top 4 or 5 clubs. There was a time when international football was a step up from Division One of the Football League and even from the Premiership in its early days, but that is no longer the case. For Rickie to play against The Ukraine is no different to playing against Man City. It could be argued that he has a stronger team around him, although it could be debateable whether the England side is stronger than the Southampton team, given the international players now in the Saints' side. I simply disagree with the Mail writer that Rickie will face any stronger test tonight than he does in the Premier League against the likes of Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, etc, etc...

 

It will be the tempo, expectation, atmosphere and style of game that will be like no other for lambert. Hence the 'big test' line

[Lets B Avenue]

Someone tell Cortese to shut that effing Academy down. Waste of time.

 

Not relevant to the discussion of tonight's England Senior Team.

 

Nice troll attempt though, Jamie.

[jasonb]

Am I the only one who thinks Ukraine aren't all that?? They are better than Scotland and Moldova but they are not Germany or Spain.

 

I think England should be confident of getting a result tonight and I also think Rickie will get chances.

 

Up the saint!!

[CB Fry]

Not relevant to the discussion of tonight's England Senior Team.

 

Nice troll attempt though, Jamie.

 

...how is Greg Dyke's speech, or your rant about "the future" relevent to the discussion of tonight's England Senior Team?

[trousers]

England's No.9...

 

@FA: #England: 1 Hart, 2 Walker, 3 Cole, Gerrard ©, 5 Cahill, 6 Jagielka, 7 Walcott, 8 Lampard, 9 Lambert, 10 Wilshere, 11 Milner. #UkrvEng

[Smirking_Saint]

So what exactly is the issue with the Samuals piece ? Or is it simply that Samuals isnt clamouring for his inclusion in every England game from now on and isnt saying that he is a better option than Rooney (which he isnt)

 

This forum does make me laugh, first we were going to be finishing above Arsenal and taking on Europes Elite in an 80k seater super stadium and now Rickie is the saviour of English football and a world class striker after 2 games against poor opposition.

 

Now, I dont like Samuals, generally I think he is a fat idiot, but I cant see a lot wrong in what he has written

[Saint-Armstrong]

I don't like Samuel but that piece is fair.

[Smirking_Saint]

England's No.9...

 

@FA: #England: 1 Hart, 2 Walker, 3 Cole, Gerrard ©, 5 Cahill, 6 Jagielka, 7 Walcott, 8 Lampard, 9 Lambert, 10 Wilshere, 11 Milner. #UkrvEng

 

I see he has gone with Milner, Hodgson is sooo negative and boring

[dubai_phil]

So what exactly is the issue with the Samuals piece ? Or is it simply that Samuals isnt clamouring for his inclusion in every England game from now on and isnt saying that he is a better option than Rooney (which he isnt)

 

This forum does make me laugh, first we were going to be finishing above Arsenal and taking on Europes Elite in an 80k seater super stadium and now Rickie is the saviour of English football and a world class striker after 2 games against poor opposition.

 

Now, I dont like Samuals, generally I think he is a fat idiot, but I cant see a lot wrong in what he has written

 

Think a number of posters don't actually read things. Someone posts a link or a summary and they then remember something from a week or a month ago and go off on one.

 

It was a good article as you say. It has been a fairytale. Tonight something more could actually happen. Christ imagine IF he scores a couple & we win and are almost in Brazil, not just on here but across the country. 9th Sept could become a Public Holiday SRL Day

 

We're all waiting to see, cannot understand why anyone would think anything else

[Smirking_Saint]

Think a number of posters don't actually read things. Someone posts a link or a summary and they then remember something from a week or a month ago and go off on one.

 

It was a good article as you say. It has been a fairytale. Tonight something more could actually happen. Christ imagine IF he scores a couple & we win and are almost in Brazil, not just on here but across the country. 9th Sept could become a Public Holiday SRL Day

 

We're all waiting to see, cannot understand why anyone would think anything else

 

He has got himself into the team, grabbed his chance and doesnt look out of place, fair play to the lad and yes it has been a fairytale and a gamble that paid off.

 

Personally I think he will do a good job tonight but as Samuals said it has the potential to turn sour for him. He will now be a decent option up until the WC, but lets be honest, Welbeck, Sturridge and Rooney are all better options than him and after the WC we shoukd IMHO drop anyone too old for the next WC which will include all the centurians and Lambert unfortunately

[Bearsy]

Hodgson is sooo negative and boring

 

Pot+kettle!

 

Not really, ur one of my favourites. Love u!

[Smirking_Saint]

Pot+kettle!

 

Not really, ur one of my favourites. Love u!

 

Love you too bear, love it when you talk dirty to me

[adrian lord]

This sums up the pervasive attitude in many glory team players, and why SRL is so popular by contrast: