Home Sweet Home -It ain't for Saints!

[eelpie]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/26/premier-league-10-talking-points

 

Jacob Steinberg's comments speak home truths. How do we resolve our failures to conquer weak sides at home?

[David Strover]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/26/premier-league-10-talking-points

 

Jacob Steinberg's comments speak home truths. How do we resolve our failures to conquer weak sides at home?

 

Said it last season, our home record is poor, I know it's the Premier League but it is still poor and if it gets worse it will cause us serious problems...

[Batman]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/26/premier-league-10-talking-points

 

Jacob Steinberg's comments speak home truths. How do we resolve our failures to conquer weak sides at home?

 

there are not many weaker sides

most teams in the league have strengthened quite a bit or already have good squads

much against the popular belief, the prem is an almighty hard league

 

look at sat, we as fans have gotten arrogant all of a sudden and expected to brush sunderland aside. (yet if liverpool fans talk about brushing us aside we would call them arrogant ****s)

 

they have some very good players, their goal scorer was bought (very surprisingly) from Juventus and is a full on italian international who starred in the confederations cup (osvaldo didnt)

 

yet, we expected to brush them aside and expect them to fight for relegation

 

this league (this season) is going to bar far more harder than last year

 

 

 

 

what the article does not tell you is that many of the lost defeats at home were in the 1st half of last season

in our last 10 league home games (9 last seasosn, 1 this), we have lost 2. that includes beating 2 of last season top 4, beating Liverpool and drawing against everton

 

that is pretty good for a team 1st year back in the prem if you ask me (bar the 1 game this season)

Edited 26 August, 2013 by Batman

[Badger]

Fair comment in the article, although as a Saints fans we might say he's stating the obvious.

 

Two separate issues as I see it. One is not "breaking teams down" and creating anything. The other, as per Saturday I thought, is not taking the chances we do create. Had Ron Davies in his prime been on the end of Osvaldo's precision cross rather than Rodrigues (who tamely headed it to the GK at a height he did not have to even stretch for) then things might be different.

[VectisSaint]

Based on one game this season, its difficult to know whether this is a worrying trend or not. I don't recall Saints resorting to "hitting high balls towards Rickie Lambert (and, now, Daniel Osvaldo)" on Saturday, at least not often. I think we showed plenty of invention on Saturday and on another day and with a different ref might have scored 3 or 4, but it is always going to be difficult to break down a team who go one up so early and then park the bus. The defensive lapse was unacceptable, but their scorer was very clever peeling off the back of the defensive mob, and made the goal because of his size not in spite of it. Lambert and Chambers did not react to what was clearly happening behind the backs of the defenders who were "marking" the main aerial threats and that is a lesson that we have to learn (and that our future opponents might try to exploit). Nonetheless if anyone is going to plug the leaks in our defence I would put some faith in MP. Only time will tell if we still do have a problem with weaker teams at home, far too early to conclude so far.

[The Kraken]

Based on one game this season, its difficult to know whether this is a worrying trend or not. I don't recall Saints resorting to "hitting high balls towards Rickie Lambert (and, now, Daniel Osvaldo)" on Saturday, at least not often. I think we showed plenty of invention on Saturday and on another day and with a different ref might have scored 3 or 4, but it is always going to be difficult to break down a team who go one up so early and then park the bus. The defensive lapse was unacceptable, but their scorer was very clever peeling off the back of the defensive mob, and made the goal because of his size not in spite of it. Lambert and Chambers did not react to what was clearly happening behind the backs of the defenders who were "marking" the main aerial threats and that is a lesson that we have to learn (and that our future opponents might try to exploit). Nonetheless if anyone is going to plug the leaks in our defence I would put some faith in MP. Only time will tell if we still do have a problem with weaker teams at home, far too early to conclude so far.

Agreed. If anything I thought the times we did cross it in towards the forwards were from decent areas. Lambert had a couple of really good headed opportunities, one a classic RL back post header where he isolated the defender and that he really should have done better from. JRod should also have scored his header from Osvaldo's cross. Aside from those decent efforts I don't think we were too direct.

 

I do wonder what our team would play like if we added someone like, say, Oxlade-Chamberlain or Walcott on one of the flanks. I'd love to see us give it a try and it's one way that I can see we can definitely mix things up and inject something into the side that we really don't have at the moment, a pacy player who can get the ball and take a full back on rather than have the team try to play through the opposition defence with intricate passes more of the time.

[aintforever]

Getting rid of players like Puncheon is not going to help. JWP had a good game but Puncheon gave us something a bit different. Hopefully we will get a decent pacey wide player in.

[Saint Charlie]

If we won all those other home games we would have been on the fringe of Champions League. Of course a team won't win all their home games.

 

I'm sure we will win more this year than last.

[rallyboy]

the justified fear of relegation has created a culture of anti-football teams - anyone want to see Stoke v Fulham?

 

Sunderland were a good example, AND we gave them a head start, they will be very happy with an away point.

 

I noted West Ham's main attack seems to be from free kicks in their own half, taken by their keeper.

He launches it into the penalty spot area and they hope for the best.

They will nick goals, and by playing nine across the back they will get points.

 

Sadly we don't get points for being pretty, but I think I would rather lose the odd game 4-3 by playing football than painfully grind out 0-0s and 1-0s all the time - as long as we stay up!

 

We are better than that, but we will come across a lot of sides that will waste time from the first minute and wrestle players to the ground unpunished at every set piece, so we need to be good enough to break them down and take the one chance.

That's where £12M+ players come into their own, or should do.

[Toon Saint]

Taken from The Guardian '10 talking points' blog: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/26/premier-league-10-talking-points

 

The suspicion grows that Southampton shrink as expectations rise. Drawing at home with Sunderland is not a disaster, not with so much football left to play. But it is part of a worrying trend. Last season Southampton dropped 32 points at home, too often failing to perform when the onus was on them. Those victories over Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester City are remembered but there were also defeats against Queens Park Rangers, Sunderland, West Bromwich Albion and Wigan Athletic and draws with Fulham, Norwich, Stoke and West Ham. It happened under Nigel Adkins and it happened under Mauricio Pochettino. Against sides who sit deep at St Mary's Southampton tend to run out of ideas, quickly resorting to hitting high balls towards Rickie Lambert (and, now, Daniel Osvaldo), and their defence remains vulnerable to costly sucker-punches. Allowing Emanuele Giaccherini, who is 5ft 4in, to score a header from a corner was unacceptable. Pochettino says that his side approach every game the same. But there is still a problem and Southampton's increased spending means they need to find a solution sooner rather than later. Jacob Steinberg

 

Fair comment? Obviously need to find ways to break through teams that sit back on a goal lead to protect or look for the draw, but a little OTT in my opinion - think the 'high balls' they mention are a lot more tactical than they make out, and the match-report itself was quite critical of Osvaldo's debut (much more so than any other write-up).

 

Definitely need to work on defending those corners though, still can't believe Giaccherini scored with Wanyama, Lovren, Chambers, Lambert, Fonte, etc., in the box. Absolutely criminal.

[corky morris]

Those teams come & park the bus. Think QPR, Sunderland, Wigan etc & try to hit us on the break. To overcome that we try & keep the ball & play through them. The other options are players like Messi whose trickery can create space & opportunities. No doubt we have gifted players who can try & d that too, but for me the real problem is a lack of pace.

What difference does that make when teams are deep?? Its simply another option. Another problem for opposition to deal with. Pace to get between defenders or beyond full backs. Pace also means we get more free kicks.

Have to say I thought Rickie's free kicks were very poor on Saturday. We need a left footer to take them on the right IMHO.

[Toon Saint]

Apologies, aware there is now another thread on this (there wasn't when I started). Mods please move.

[alpine_saint]

Yep, personally think this is a fair assessment of our situation.

 

And as has been said, loaning out Puncheon and having only an intermittent Ramirez or Lallana to rely on isnt going to help one jot.

[View From The Top]

Gaston running at the defence caused Sunderland no end problems and, to me, a bigger issue than pace, which I also think we need, is that we don't move the ball fast enough.

 

That said, we should have won by 2/3 goals. Jay missed a header that my Mrs said even she would have scored!

[Spudders]

Apologies, aware there is now another thread on this (there wasn't when I started). Mods please move.

 

Are you saying it took you over an hour to finish typing your first post then, as the other thread started an hour before yours

[ART]

Guess this one calls for bringing in the witch to fix the problem, although MP is known to go on pilgrimages walking barefooted to request help from the Blessed Virgin.

[Whitey Grandad]

Gaston running at the defence caused Sunderland no end problems and, to me, a bigger issue than pace, which I also think we need, is that we don't move the ball fast enough.

 

That said, we should have won by 2/3 goals. Jay missed a header that my Mrs said even she would have scored!

 

I think it's change of pace that we need, all the top clubs can suddenly turn it on when necessary. Of course, that means you need some fast players in your squad to begin with.

[Toon Saint]

Are you saying it took you over an hour to finish typing your first post then, as the other thread started an hour before yours

 

Ha, started posting it then had to go meet my academic supervisor. Came back and pressed send and obviously realized there was another thread exactly the same. Some of us have other things going on in our lives

[Bewildered]

The full backs are supposed to provide the pace and width to the side, but for me they didn't get forward nearly enough. Maybe it was a tactical move to try and prevent Sunderland countering but it forced us to spend much of the game playing too narrow. Clyne got forward a bit more when he came on, but still not really enough and we could have done with more direct wide player to bring on and add that element of width.

 

It's a shame Puncheon wanted to move to London for personal reasons, but Saturday underlined that he does need replacing.

 

Saying all that we still had 2 or 3 chances that really should have been finished better.

[Sour Mash]

The full backs are supposed to provide the pace and width to the side, but for me they didn't get forward nearly enough. Maybe it was a tactical move to try and prevent Sunderland countering but it forced us to spend much of the game playing too narrow. Clyne got forward a bit more when he came on, but still not really enough and we could have done with more direct wide player to bring on and add that element of width.

 

It's a shame Puncheon wanted to move to London for personal reasons, but Saturday underlined that he does need replacing.

 

Saying all that we still had 2 or 3 chances that really should have been finished better.

I think Puncheon's 'personal reasons' were wanting first team football, not living in London. Edited 26 August, 2013 by Sour Mash

[Spudders]

Some of us have other things going on in our lives

That's just crazy!!

[Torrent Of Abuse]

I think Luncheon

's 'personal reasons' were wanting first team football, not living in London.

Luncheon: now there was a hungry player.

[Cabrone]

I don't know what that journo as expecting but I for one never expected a walkover against an underestimated Sunderland side yet we still created enough chances to beat them comfortably.

 

Our main goal threat is Ossie and he must play up front with Ricky just behind in support. Not on the left or the right but right at the top. These two need games to start to read each other and when they click they will be potent.

 

JRod should be benched IMO, his biggest weakness is his lack of cutting edge. I suspect he's a bit too much of a nice guy, needs to look at how Ossie operates and get a bit more selfish. I'd use him as an impact player later on. Same with Adam.

 

Gaston should be put infront of the midfield in the creative role and Cork put behind in the protector role to allow the full backs to bomb forward and let Morgan\Victor to squeeze the life out of the oppo midfield.

 

Despite the article I saw a very good team in the making on Sat that just needs to gel together.

 

We are going to get hiccups on the way but this team has the makings of being one of our best ever given a bit of time.

 

Looking forward to this season but the prem is a tough league and we are going to have to fight for everything.

[Tony F]

Lets look for just a tad of perspective and consider where we are compared to the identical games last season.

 

WBA (A) - lost last season - won this season

Sunderland (H) - lost last season - drawn this season.

 

So match for match we are already 4 points better compared to last season's record......... I think I will go on the record and say, for Premier league, I'm happy with that so far. When Osvaldo starts really firing on all cylinders for us I am hoping for a whole new level of comparative satisfaction......

[Lord Duckhunter]

I dont think we move the ball quick enough against sides that park the bus at sms. We play in front of them, making it easy for them to put a bank of 4 and 5 and restrict our space. What also costs us is giving away soft goals. We have to score at least 2 against sides that are happy for a point. That's not easy as sides are fit, organised and well drilled.

 

puncheon seems to become the latest player that gets better and better in some posters eyes, once he leaves us. He was here last year, when we throw point after point away.He did ok, but he really isn't as good as some appear to be making out. We've signed players a level above puncheon, we've moved on. He really isn't the answer to this problem.

[Turkish]

What is concerning is our lack of goals, none from open play this season and I believe this is now only 5 from our last 8 premier league games.

Edited 26 August, 2013 by Turkish

[BlakeySFC]

Overly negative article from the Guardian in my opinion.

 

We're 6th in the Premier League with 4 points, our best start to a PL season ever.

 

We've improved upon results from last season (defeating our 'bogie' team of last season and bettering our home defeat to Sunderland) if we manage to get anything at Norwich this weekend it'll be absolutely phonomenal.

 

I think the problem is the lack of goals, we've only scored 4 goals in our last 7 PL games which is an issue. Puncheon contributed 6 of our goals last season (some extremely vital) and I think it's an absolutely insane idea letting him go out on loan.

[Wes Tender]

Lets look for just a tad of perspective and consider where we are compared to the identical games last season.

 

WBA (A) - lost last season - won this season

Sunderland (H) - lost last season - drawn this season.

 

So match for match we are already 4 points better compared to last season's record......... I think I will go on the record and say, for Premier league, I'm happy with that so far. When Osvaldo starts really firing on all cylinders for us I am hoping for a whole new level of comparative satisfaction......

 

A lot more perspective you have shown than that so-called Sports journalist. He makes his assessment on the basis of one home match of the new season and includes WBA in his list of teams that we lost to at home last season. Well, if he's going to base his opinions on such a small results sample, then he might as well conclude that our away form is showing signs of significant improvement, based on our loss to WBA last season, and they finished s creditable 8th.

 

And if he is so keen to make assumptions about our onward performances based on such flimsy evidence, then the idiot might as well consider that those extra four points we now have that we didn't have last season, are sufficient to raise our position in the league 3 places, if all the other points gained remained the same.

[CB Fry]

A lot more perspective you have shown than that so-called Sports journalist. He makes his assessment on the basis of one home match of the new season and includes WBA in his list of teams that we lost to at home last season. Well, if he's going to base his opinions on such a small results sample, then he might as well conclude that our away form is showing signs of significant improvement, based on our loss to WBA last season, and they finished s creditable 8th.

 

And if he is so keen to make assumptions about our onward performances based on such flimsy evidence, then the idiot might as well consider that those extra four points we now have that we didn't have last season, are sufficient to raise our position in the league 3 places, if all the other points gained remained the same.

 

Classic Wes Tender. Clueless ranting against a short piece which makes some excellent points. We clearly struggle at home to the "lesser" teams, as we haven't beaten one since Adkins beat Reading last December. Clearly not "flimsy" evidence.

 

Add to that the point made by others on here that we are struggling to score, esp from open play and MP has some things to address.

 

But you carry on grizzling that a sports journo infinitely more clued up than you refuses to just parrot how super duper the super Saints are.

[sandwichsaint]

I thought the Guardian piece was fair comment, the writer was writing for a neutral audience and was putting out there what we all know, our home record isn't great and for the money spent, the ambitions of the owners and the general feel-good vibe around Saints as a team 'on the up' it needs to be much better.

 

I am surprised how relaxed people are with a 1-1 draw at home to Sunderland who by all accounts were pretty dire. I know it's all aunties and uncles but if we had lost 0-1 or even drawn 0-0 at WBA would we all be so incredibly relaxed with Saturday's result? WBA was a cracking result and we should have followed it up on Saturday.

[Turkish]

Classic Wes Tender. Clueless ranting against a short piece which makes some excellent points. We clearly struggle at home to the "lesser" teams, as we haven't beaten one since Adkins beat Reading last December. Clearly not "flimsy" evidence.

 

Add to that the point made by others on here that we are struggling to score, esp from open play and MP has some things to address.

 

But you carry on grizzling that a sports journo infinitely more clued up than you refuses to just parrot how super duper the super Saints are.

 

Add this we only beat 3 of the bottom 10 at home last season, which is pretty poor considering home form is key for clubs like us. Still, is flimsy evidence from a so called journalist who is talking nonsense and doesn't know what he's on about. we're brilliant, end of.

[Barry Sanchez]

This is why we need a winger, pace and a great outlet, pace is something no football team has ever learned to really cope with whether its with a tricky winger or the ball through or over the top. its a brilliant option to have,

[Turkish]

This is why we need a winger, pace and a great outlet, pace is something no football team has ever learned to really cope with whether its with a tricky winger or the ball through or over the top. its a brilliant option to have,

 

De Ridder has pace, he's gone because he's sh*t. Teams can cope with sh*t players with pace. Good ones with pace, well there ain't many around.

[Turkish]

It's got nothing to do with fan expectation, the players know when they're favourites. Saints are a side who should be doing well at home, same as any half decent top flight side. We prove we can do it against top sides, it's not an ability issue clearly. But consistently fail against weaker sides. That's not disrespectful, it's just a fact that Stoke, Sunderland, QPR, WBA etc aren't as good as Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool.

 

I'm not convinced the players can handle being favourites yet. That's going to be down to MP. He got lots of praise for a fairly unimpressive points haul, the praise was all about performance, and rightly so in many games. But this season he can't keep struggling in these home games. If he does, he won't last very long.

 

Pochetino didn't beat a single team below 7th at home, Adkins beat 3 of the bottom 10 with the same players so its not even we can't handle being favourites. What it shows to me is that we can't handle teams that come to defend, we can't break them down and aren't strong enough defensively to not concede for 90 minutes and shut the back door, so to speak. Of course we've added Lovern and Wanyama to the squad to shore things up at the back and Osvaldo to help up top so this season its too quick to judge. Last season though we were undone by teams the played on the counter, look at QPR, awful but Redknapp out thought MP tactically, which worries me. MP seems a bit of a one trick pony. The worry is that QPR didn't do anything special, defended competently and a long ball into th channel between the full back and centre half and they scored twice that way, Newcatle beat us that way too, WBA beat us on the counter attack, plenty to work on there but we don't seem to learn from it. For all the back slapping as to how good we are Sunderland also had two very good chances in the second half which thy could easily have scored, again they came from balls In behind, are we learning? it seems not. Defend deep and well, get it forward quickly and there is a good chance you'll beat us. It seems a little bit too easy for a team that is meant to be so good.

Edited 26 August, 2013 by Turkish

[Jonnyboy]

^ I would've written that but I'm too lazy.

[shurlock]

The writer does bundle together a bunch of unconnected games. I don't think the home games against Wigan and Norwich shine much light on our current woes. Even the QPR game, as a nervy six pointer, has limited value.

 

Saying that there were issues at the end of last season that have spilled over into this one, though we've dispensed with the slightly more defensively minded Davis which should have helped.

 

IMO, wee've been carrying the likes of Jrod and Lallana and they've faced little or no competition given Gaston's form and MP's freezing out of Punch. Lambert does what he does but he's never going to pull defenders out of position with his movement -and when he does, he tends to empty the box, dropping off into predictable positions.

 

Don't think it takes much to resolve now that Osvaldo is here -his urgency and energy made an immediate difference. had he started, we would have beaten Sunderland comfortably. Also dont think JWP is suited at home on the right, esp if either Clyne or Shaw is injured. Has a lovely delivery but, like Davis last season, is a slightly negative move. With Morgan and Vctor bossing the middle, we surely can afford to take a few more chances.

 

Ideally would like one new face before the deadline - am firmly and squarely in the camp that a decent wideman who can commit defenders would open up space for others that would unlock sides that come to park the proverbial bus.

[The9]

Fair comment in the article, although as a Saints fans we might say he's stating the obvious.

 

Two separate issues as I see it. One is not "breaking teams down" and creating anything. The other, as per Saturday I thought, is not taking the chances we do create. Had Ron Davies in his prime been on the end of Osvaldo's precision cross rather than Rodrigues (who tamely headed it to the GK at a height he did not have to even stretch for) then things might be different.

 

Would have been nice if the ball hadn't been too high for Rodriguez to head it in, of course. There were some much weaker headers from certain other players than Rodriguez's skilful redirect when he was stuck well under the ball.

[shurlock]

Pochetino didn't beat a single team below 7th at home, Adkins beat 3 of the bottom 10 with the same players so its not even we can't handle being favourites. What it shows to me is that we can't handle teams that come to defend, we can't break them down and aren't strong enough defensively to not concede for 90 minutes and shut the back door, so to speak. Of course we've added Lovern and Wanyama to the squad to shore things up at the back and Osvaldo to help up top so this season its too quick to judge. Last season though we were undone by teams the played on the counter, look at QPR, awful but Redknapp out thought MP tactically, which worries me. MP seems a bit of a one trick pony. The worry is that QPR didn't do anything special, defended competently and a long ball into th channel between the full back and centre half and they scored twice that way, Newcatle beat us that way too, WBA beat us on the counter attack, plenty to work on there but we don't seem to learn from it. For all the back slapping as to how good we are Sunderland also had two very good chances in the second half which thy could easily have scored, again they came from balls In behind, are we learning? it seems not. Defend deep and well, get it forward quickly and there is a good chance you'll beat us. It seems a little bit too easy for a team that is meant to be so good.

 

We were undone by QPR's long ball because of an individual slip up between Fox and Yoshida - the personnel is now different, though whether Fonte adds much more than Yoshida is debatable. Sunderland was completely different - we were aggressively chasing the game and any team would have been vulnerable. Wouldn't put it down to MP's tactics at all.

 

WBA was worrying but let's not forget how we dealt more than comfortably with other direct/counter attacking sides like Wham and Stoke both of which caused us far fewer problems than say Swansea. With Vic in the side, I'm even more confident that we can deal with these kind of sides.

Edited 26 August, 2013 by shurlock

[PhilippineSaint]

"Sadly we don't get points for being pretty, but I think I would rather lose the odd game 4-3 by playing football than painfully grind out 0-0s and 1-0s all the time - as long as we stay up!"

 

 

Do people not remember the Arsenal team of the 70's, 80's and 90's or as they were properly named Arse nil they were boring boring and some said even boring. George Graham has a lot to answer for.

 

And I agree with the first statement by somebody else on this thread.

[Batman]

So, we are now not better than arsenal and an assault on the top 4 is now not happening?

[stug76]

So, we are now not better than arsenal and an assault on the top 4 is now not happening?

 

Is this the best you can do?

 

 

Like everything Saints in the NC era, I would expect progression this year and our home performances will improve. We are stronger defensively, and that should make us less vulnerable to the smash and grab defeat from those teams who sit deep and hope to pick us off on the break. Only time will tell, of course, but on another day we probably should have beat Sunderland with the chances that we created. When Osvaldo settles, I'm sure we will be in a better position to break down these teams.

[shurlock]

So, we are now not better than arsenal and an assault on the top 4 is now not happening?

 

Well done dulldays.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Learning how to break down stubborn and well organised teams that are determined to keep ten men behind the ball at all times is one of the most difficult problems in football - as any Man City fan will confirm this morning. As (hopefully) the reputation of our team grows then we may well see even more opposition sides adopt those tactics against us - so we'll have to learn then.

 

But the gist of the article is correct, we did end up lumping long balls into the box v Sunderland far too often, especially during the first half. The good news however is that (atypically for Southampton) two very late goals scored already this season suggests that MP might just have gotten the squad to a level of fitness we have not seen for some time.

 

If you're are fit enough to keep plugging away for 93 minutes and if your squad is 'deep' enough so that you have real quality on the bench too, then - more often than not - the pressure will eventually be rewarded.

[Turkish]

We were undone by QPR's long ball because of an individual slip up between Fox and Yoshida - the personnel is now different, though whether Fonte adds much more than Yoshida is debatable. Sunderland was completely different - we were aggressively chasing the game and any team would have been vulnerable. Wouldn't put it down to MP's tactics at all.

 

WBA was worrying but let's not forget how we dealt more than comfortably with other direct/counter attacking sides like Wham and Stoke both of which caused us far fewer problems than say Swansea. With Vic in the side, I'm even more confident that we can deal with these kind of sides.

 

newcastle also scored a couple of their goals against us this way. Sunderland wasn't different, their first clear chance came in virtually the first minute of the second half, another ball in behind for Ji to run onto luckily his finish ws powder puff otherwise we'd have had to aggresively chase the game even more and where would that have left us!

 

Im confident too that with Wanyama and Lovern there we are better equipped to handle counter attacks and long balls but there is still work to be done, as was blindingly obvious from the saturday.

 

As for your comment on how well we handled Stoke and West Ham compared to Swansea, remind me how many goals those two clubs scored against us compared to Swansea last season.

[Wes Tender]

Classic Wes Tender. Clueless ranting against a short piece which makes some excellent points. We clearly struggle at home to the "lesser" teams, as we haven't beaten one since Adkins beat Reading last December. Clearly not "flimsy" evidence.

 

Add to that the point made by others on here that we are struggling to score, esp from open play and MP has some things to address.

 

But you carry on grizzling that a sports journo infinitely more clued up than you refuses to just parrot how super duper the super Saints are.

 

Classic CB Fry, with his usual superior (in his mind, anyway) supercilious, attempt at a put down.

 

Firstly, as WBA came 8th last season, they are clearly not a "lesser" team. And also clearly it is ridiculous to draw conclusions based on the team's record following significant changes during the transfer window when there has been just one home match since.

 

It is irelevant how clued up the journalist is, that doesn't mean to say that an opinion (for that is what it was) from him has to be right. Neil Allen is also a Sports Journalist, but I expect that you would agree that every utterance he makes is not unchallengeable, although even he is quite possibly more knowledgeable about the game than you.

 

Just for the record, so you know in future, I don't grizzle about journos for refusing to parrot how super-duper we are, but I reserve the right to express an opinion on them when I feel that they have not been balanced in their views.

 

Is that OK with you?

[Turkish]

Classic CB Fry, with his usual superior (in his mind, anyway) supercilious, attempt at a put down.

 

Firstly, as WBA came 8th last season, they are clearly not a "lesser" team. And also clearly it is ridiculous to draw conclusions based on the team's record following significant changes during the transfer window when there has been just one home match since.

 

It is irelevant how clued up the journalist is, that doesn't mean to say that an opinion (for that is what it was) from him has to be right. Neil Allen is also a Sports Journalist, but I expect that you would agree that every utterance he makes is not unchallengeable, although even he is quite possibly more knowledgeable about the game than you.

 

Just for the record, so you know in future, I don't grizzle about journos for refusing to parrot how super-duper we are, but I reserve the right to express an opinion on them when I feel that they have not been balanced in their views.

 

Is that OK with you?

 

it's not an opinion though Les is it it's a fact, we haven't beaten a team in the bottom half at home since November and Pochetino never has in this country. In fact the only team in the bottom half he has beat home or away based on last seasons positionings is Reading, who had lost something like 5 in a row already when we played them. There is cleary a problem there somewhere. Maybe the new players can help address this but early signs against Sunderland suggest there is still a lot of work to be done. Still struggling to break down teams who come and defend deep and still suseptable to the long diagonal ball in behind.

Edited 27 August, 2013 by Turkish

[Mystic Force]

We had a hard time breaking through the defence that is for sure and both matches so far have been like that. The difference between us and the teams we aspire to be with is that they can break them down. Until we figure it out we will not be a top half side.

[CB Fry]

Classic CB Fry, with his usual superior (in his mind, anyway) supercilious, attempt at a put down.

 

Firstly, as WBA came 8th last season, they are clearly not a "lesser" team. And also clearly it is ridiculous to draw conclusions based on the team's record following significant changes during the transfer window when there has been just one home match since.

 

It is irelevant how clued up the journalist is, that doesn't mean to say that an opinion (for that is what it was) from him has to be right. Neil Allen is also a Sports Journalist, but I expect that you would agree that every utterance he makes is not unchallengeable, although even he is quite possibly more knowledgeable about the game than you.

 

Just for the record, so you know in future, I don't grizzle about journos for refusing to parrot how super-duper we are, but I reserve the right to express an opinion on them when I feel that they have not been balanced in their views.

 

Is that OK with you?

 

Whether or not you class WBA as a lesser team or not is irrelevent as we lost to them anyway, so the fact that we struggle against "lesser" teams at home still stands.

 

So that little piece in the Guardian is based on a clear trend stretching back to well before Christmas 2012, and thus far has continued into 2013-4. Pretty balanced to me.

 

Boo hoo the nasty journalist man.