Apparent chemical weapon attacks in Syria

[pap]

Wow, thats utterly bizarre.....

 

Of course, Russian motives in the Middle East are completely altruistic; Russian foreign policy comlpetely trustworthy....

 

We'll come back to this discussion in a few years when Putin has turned the gas off to Europe, controls oil from the Middle East and people in the West are dying from the cold and food supply disruptions...

 

Good luck on trying to hang those opinions on me, sir.

 

I've already said that I'm fully aware that Russians have their own agenda. Thing is, they haven't been going around invading or striking Middle Eastern countries. It is frankly amazing with their p!ss-poor reputation from the likes of us, who actually remember when they were the Cold War enemy, that they're able to present themselves as peacemakers. That's on US foreign policy, and the number of people who have died as a result. It's not like the Russians have set up a fluffy bunny petting zoo and organised free travel for the world's fluffy bunny aficionados.

 

They're just not as aggressive as the US.

 

However, the "crimes" you accuse them of are nothing but. Would I be a criminal if I denied the use of my car to someone who wanted it, even if they were willing to pay? Nope, I'd just be someone withholding a resource. It might inconvenience the potential traveller, but then it's not my job to provide transport for strangers, just as it isn't Putin's job to provide energy security for countries who lack capacity.

Edited 12 September, 2013 by pap

[alpine_saint]

Good luck on trying to hang those opinions on me, sir.

 

I've already said that I'm fully aware that Russians have their own agenda. Thing is, they haven't been going around invading or striking Middle Eastern countries. It is frankly amazing with their p!ss-poor reputation from the likes of us, who actually remember when they were the Cold War enemy, that they're able to present themselves as peacemakers. That's on US foreign policy, and the number of people who have died as a result. It's not like the Russians have set up a fluffy bunny petting zoo and organised free travel for the world's fluffy bunny aficionados.

 

They're just not as aggressive as the US.

 

However, the "crimes" you accuse them of are nothing but. Would I be a criminal if I denied the use of my car to someone who wanted it, even if they were willing to pay? Nope, I'd just be someone withholding a resource. It might inconvenience the potential traveller, but then it's not my job to provide transport for strangers, just as it isn't Putin's job to provide energy security for countries who lack capacity.

 

Jesus, you'll try to justify anything.

 

If you signed an agreement to supply then fabricated a story about stealing, etc to justify bully-boy tactics, then yes, you'd be a criminal.

 

"They're just not as aggressive as the US". Who the f**k are you trying to kid ?

[pap]

Jesus, you'll try to justify anything.

 

If you signed an agreement to supply then fabricated a story about stealing, etc to justify bully-boy tactics, then yes, you'd be a criminal.

 

"They're just not as aggressive as the US". Who the f**k are you trying to kid ?

 

I feel that we're hitting diminishing returns here, Alpine.

 

When you descend into faux-cluelessness to push your points, you are truly damned.

 

Perhaps you just don't know.

 

Since the end of the Cold War, the US had invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, helped the UK and France turn Libya into hell on Earth, and conducts drone strikes on civilian populations every day.

 

For Russia, I'm looking at Chechnya and South Ossetia.

 

The US is way ahead on body count. I'd advise that you bring some facts to your next post. You're shaming the barrio with this nonsense.

[pap]

 

Gotta love George

[Picard]

I feel that we're hitting diminishing returns here, Alpine.

 

When you descend into faux-cluelessness to push your points, you are truly damned.

 

Perhaps you just don't know.

 

Since the end of the Cold War, the US had invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, helped the UK and France turn Libya into hell on Earth, and conducts drone strikes on civilian populations every day.

 

For Russia, I'm looking at Chechnya and South Ossetia.

 

The US is way ahead on body count. I'd advise that you bring some facts to your next post. You're shaming the barrio with this nonsense.

 

By South Ossetia do you mean the time the US backed Georgia attacked South Ossetia?

[Verbal]

The UN inspectors report their findings very soon, possibly as early as Monday. Let's suspend the preposterously amateurish stabs at understanding Middle Eastern geopolitics until then. Finding out who committed the atrocity in Ghouta - if the inspectors go that far - is critical to having informed public views about the next steps by the UN and the international community (especially the Americans and the Russians) in Syria.

[Picard]

The UN inspectors report their findings very soon, possibly as early as Monday. Let's suspend the preposterously amateurish stabs at understanding Middle Eastern geopolitics until then. Finding out who committed the atrocity in Ghouta - if the inspectors go that far - is critical to having informed public views about the next steps by the UN and the international community (especially the Americans and the Russians) in Syria.

 

So after the report comes out we can return to our amateurish stabs at understanding Middle Eastern geopolitics?

[pap]

By South Ossetia do you mean the time the US backed Georgia attacked South Ossetia?

 

That'd be the one, but thought it worth mentioning in case anyone thought I was labouring under the misapprehension that Russia had been entirely inactive on the combat front.

[pap]

The UN inspectors report their findings very soon, possibly as early as Monday. Let's suspend the preposterously amateurish stabs at understanding Middle Eastern geopolitics until then. Finding out who committed the atrocity in Ghouta - if the inspectors go that far - is critical to having informed public views about the next steps by the UN and the international community (especially the Americans and the Russians) in Syria.

 

I thought you'd indicated that the UN inspectors weren't allowed to assign blame.

 

I do like your attempts to command the forum though.

 

I'll do one.

 

"Let's all laugh at Verbal's attempts to tell the forum what to do".

 

Easier than I thought. Rather fun, too

[alpine_saint]

I feel that we're hitting diminishing returns here, Alpine.

 

When you descend into faux-cluelessness to push your points, you are truly damned.

 

Perhaps you just don't know.

 

Since the end of the Cold War, the US had invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, helped the UK and France turn Libya into hell on Earth, and conducts drone strikes on civilian populations every day.

 

For Russia, I'm looking at Chechnya and South Ossetia.

 

The US is way ahead on body count. I'd advise that you bring some facts to your next post. You're shaming the barrio with this nonsense.

 

Yes, because the only way to bully and intmiidate nations and pursue "national interests" is open military activity, isnt it ? Yet again, how bizarre that people lecture about the US "industrial military complex" where the military is used to advance commercial interests, but ignore Russian arms supply to the Middle East, turning off Ukraine's gas supply, etc.

 

What a cosy convenient definition you've established in your head. I could argue that at least the US is more open and honest about it... And I dont give a flying f**k what you and bell-ends like Pilger, Fisk and Chomsky would say, I do believe that humanitarian grounds does play a small role in US thinking, something I wouldnt even dream of accusing Russias Chief Thug of.

[alpine_saint]

The UN inspectors report their findings very soon, possibly as early as Monday. Let's suspend the preposterously amateurish stabs at understanding Middle Eastern geopolitics until then. Finding out who committed the atrocity in Ghouta - if the inspectors go that far - is critical to having informed public views about the next steps by the UN and the international community (especially the Americans and the Russians) in Syria.

 

How do you work that one out then ? I beleive that UK and US polls have indicated that knowing who was to blame wont make a jot of difference about supporting military intervention.

[Viking Warrior]

AS they say on the battlefield

 

Gas Gas Gas

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Articles like this one underline why we shouldn't be involved. It's written by an Italian journo captured by a rebel faction

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/15/domenico-quirico-my-hostage-ordeal

 

Comments below the article suggests he's written another piece in which he claims to have overhead rebels claiming responsibility for the gas attacks.

 

Whatever IS the truth, it is one massive **** sandwich and we shouldn't get involved.

[pap]

Articles like this one underline why we shouldn't be involved. It's written by an Italian journo captured by a rebel faction

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/15/domenico-quirico-my-hostage-ordeal

 

Comments below the article suggests he's written another piece in which he claims to have overhead rebels claiming responsibility for the gas attacks.

 

Whatever IS the truth, it is one massive **** sandwich and we shouldn't get involved.

 

He overheard a Skype conversation with his captors in which they claimed that Assad was not responsible for the attacks. His fellow captive, a chap called Piccinin, reported this on Belgian TV on his release.

 

Quirico has been less sure about whether the conversation was truthful than Piccinin was. The latter believed that the conversation was genuine.

 

Interestingly, Quirico has distanced himself from the rebel cause. Said that the secular revolution of Aleppo became something else. He's quite right in that regard.

[Jonnyboy]

So are all the pro-airstrike people still campaigning for us to get involved?

[pap]

Absolute clusterf**k.

 

Obama assures Assad attacks against ISIS will not also target his regime.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-09-25/u-dot-s-dot-reassured-syria-s-assad-in-back-channel-message

[Jonnyboy]

Presumably Alpine_saint would have us bombing Assads side and also ISIS, basically any armed Muslim in Syria is fair game.

[Jonnyboy]

Anyone heard of Genie Energy? Some interesting shareholders and directors.