Saint-Armstrong Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Interesting... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2397451/Arsene-Wengers-tired-formula-just-doesnt-add-anymore.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Don't mess with big Nic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 wow. never thought contracts would go into that much detail seems odd. then again, I suspect many extras in contracts are very creative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Shrewd!!! More fool on Arsenal's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Surely it's up to a point though? Not indefinite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Surely it's up to a point though? Not indefinite? It's not that much - it's a million for every hundred appearances. Peanuts really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Surely it's up to a point though? Not indefinite? Go on then, get your calculator out. Probs best to let MLG do the sums in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 The fact that Wenger is putting him on for less than the allotted minutes would suggest that perhaps it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 It's not that much - it's a million for every hundred appearances. Peanuts really. nice little earner though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Except he's now out for 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downthe36 Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Oh sweet Jesus that's the funniest thing I have ever read, I really struggle to believe it's true, but if it is Cortese has absolutely shafted them on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 19 August, 2013 Share Posted 19 August, 2013 Except he's now out for 6 months. He's probably got that covered in some way or other, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 So we obviously got a bucket of money when he signed for them, which if reports are true we demanded in full "in cash", then we stick this little gem into the mix. The cover photo on the Leeds programme, the Saturday before the deal was done on the Thursday, of Cortese standing in a purposeful slightly menacing manner takes on even more significance. Surely it screws the maximum earning potential of Oxo which in turn will impact on his Mum & Dad as their greed in cashing in on their son led to the move in the first place. It also sends out a message to any other parents thinking along the same lines as the Chamberlains, who took Alex for a medical at Arsenal during the season he exploded onto the scene with us. They thought they being clever by sneaking him up there, but Saints knew it had happened but obviously kept their powder dry. It certainly is a sting in the tale. It will probably make sure that the player will open his mouth if any other parent or agent comes up with the same bright idea as the Chamberlains: as it must do Alex's head in not to able to play full games. Apparently Man Utd are playing games with the Lad Jones (sure its him) Who they got from Millwall he has an appearance payment trigger condition as part of the deal when he was sold, which Man U were Weaseling about with last season............... This also makes a mockery of the England selection process as both these lads are in and around the first squad choice yet they are very unlikely to get 20 minutes for their team!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 If only Nic was around when we sold Bale - we'd probably get a pay out every time a team was even linked with him in the Media !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 Excellent! Shame he's out for 6 months! How much do we get every time he plays for England I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 (edited) Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading). Arsenal’s accounts department were stunned to receive an email from Southampton demanding payment for the appearances, with the south coast club justifying their argument based on stoppage time. Eventually Arsenal agreed to pay for the appearances and the story worked its way around the offices at the Emirates with bafflement among staff. You can just imagine Cortese sitting there with his stopwatch in hand. Move over Fergie... Stoppage time shall now be called "Cortese Time"... Edited 20 August, 2013 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouldy Coat Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 That's hillarious if true. Arsenal deliberately bringing Ox on after the 70 minutes has gone to avoid payingh 10k only to find big Nic fecks them anyway for stoppage time. Should hopefully send a message to clubs trying to pinch our best players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 You can just imagine Cortese sitting there with his *ETERNA* (The Official Timekeeper of Southampton FC) stopwatch in hand. Move over Fergie... Stoppage time shall now be called "Cortese Time"... Corrected for you ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 ........ I am sure that I read somewhere, possibly on here (which dilutes this somewhat) that we also stitched a 25% sell on clause into the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 Been snorking about this for past 15 mins as well. (Also that article in full paints a real mess at Arsenal AND gives some credence to the Transfer Committee/Back Up Staff way of the world now. Also, another source of mirth is that we seem to have become The Fail's favourite Soccerball Team all of a sudden, getting an article each day and often 3. The world's gone bonkers in the last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Saints Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 More brilliance from Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 All hail our Chairman, what a brilliant clause to have. It stuffs the opposition club up from using the player to their maximum or if they do so,potentially pays one of our better players weekly wage, very clever indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 The next time that Arsenal shake hands with Cortese over a deal, I advise them to count their fingers afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 If this is true then I'm not sure that it's a great idea. This will really not be help Ox develop as a player. We want to be the club that parents want to send their children too, not the club that screws young players over when they leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 If this is true then I'm not sure that it's a great idea. This will really not be help Ox develop as a player. We want to be the club that parents want to send their children too, not the club that screws young players over when they leave. why would it hamper him? arsenal are disgustingly rich. as said, it will take 100 games where he plays over 20 mins to get £1m. I bet other clauses have that money paid in far less that AT LEAST 100 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 why would it hamper him? arsenal are disgustingly rich. as said, it will take 100 games where he plays over 20 mins to get £1m. I bet other clauses have that money paid in far less that AT LEAST 100 games The article implies that Wenger was trying to play him for "Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading)." I agree that the sums don't seem that high compared to other transfer-related monies. It just seems that on this evidence the deal has reduced Ox's playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 The article implies that Wenger was trying to play him for "Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading)." I agree that the sums don't seem that high compared to other transfer-related monies. It just seems that on this evidence the deal has reduced Ox's playing time. that article showed about 5 games in the last 2 years where he came on as sub with around 20 mins to go. hardly news, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 The article implies that Wenger was trying to play him for "Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading)." I agree that the sums don't seem that high compared to other transfer-related monies. It just seems that on this evidence the deal has reduced Ox's playing time. I'm not disagreeing but aren't most (non-injury) subs on or around the 70 min mark anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 I'm not disagreeing but aren't most (non-injury) subs on or around the 70 min mark anyway? Yep, there's probably a fair amount of newspaper-looking-for-a-story here. My point is only that Cortese obviously negotiates very hard (which is good) and that he should consider the player's career. If I was deciding which club to send my 10 year old promising player to then this sort of concern could be a deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 If this is true then I'm not sure that it's a great idea. This will really not be help Ox develop as a player. We want to be the club that parents want to send their children too, not the club that screws young players over when they leave. The article implies that Wenger was trying to play him for "Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading)." I agree that the sums don't seem that high compared to other transfer-related monies. It just seems that on this evidence the deal has reduced Ox's playing time. Surely the implication here, if any, is that it is not a good idea for young, developing, players to sign for Arsenal - as they are too tight-fisted to pay for their playing time. If Wenger wanted him so badly because he was such a good player who would win the Arse matches then he would be played for as many minutes as the manager needed him on the pitch. I doubt 'The Don' held a gun to Arsenal's head as they signed the sale agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 If this is true then I'm not sure that it's a great idea. This will really not be help Ox develop as a player. We want to be the club that parents want to send their children too, not the club that screws young players over when they leave. Yep, there's probably a fair amount of newspaper-looking-for-a-story here. My point is only that Cortese obviously negotiates very hard (which is good) and that he should consider the player's career. If I was deciding which club to send my 10 year old promising player to then this sort of concern could be a deciding factor. If a parent's concern over sending his son to Saints' Academy is that if when the boy turns 17/18 and wants to sign for 'one of the big clubs' (thereby, not staying at and playing for Saints - should he be good enough at that stage) but 'Nasty Nic' might do a tough deal to make this (and the players onward development) difficult to happen then I am happy for their child to go and 'use' another academy for their own good/greed. Oh, and if your son is 10 then he might too old anyway - Saints recruit at age 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 If this is true then I'm not sure that it's a great idea. This will really not be help Ox develop as a player. We want to be the club that parents want to send their children too, not the club that screws young players over when they leave. This is really not our remit anymore, it was us that offered him the best bed for a footballing development and it was Ox's dad that decided that Wenger was the best man to get that out of him. Now I have little doubt that he would not have been an England player as soon, nor would he have been involved in some European games but he would have got gametime and our coaching really is top notch. We are not the ones that can be charged with ruining young players, we are just looking after our own interests. The clause is a good one, and we were not to know that Wenger would have tried to be so 'prudent' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 I think we al realize that football deals these days are much more complicated than yesteryear. When Keegan left Saints, it was a groundbreaking deal that linked His Newcastle salary to season ticket sales. What I did find just as interesting, is that it seems are deals are negotiated by an external team By then Oxlade-Chamberlain had, unknowingly, been the subject of a complicated economic formula established by the Harvard business boffins employed on a sizeable retainer by the club It does seem that we go for the very best in every aspect of the Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 I think we al realize that football deals these days are much more complicated than yesteryear. When Keegan left Saints, it was a groundbreaking deal that linked His Newcastle salary to season ticket sales. What I did find just as interesting, is that it seems are deals are negotiated by an external team By then Oxlade-Chamberlain had, unknowingly, been the subject of a complicated economic formula established by the Harvard business boffins employed on a sizeable retainer by the club It does seem that we go for the very best in every aspect of the Club. That bit in bold refers to Arsenal and the article itself is really having a Pop at Uncle Scrouge (Wenger) That Boffin Committee comes up with numbers that then make Arsenal look stupid and also delays bids timing wise WWenger is a cheapskate and micro manages everything - the article was probably written by a Spud it scores a lot of points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 Yep, there's probably a fair amount of newspaper-looking-for-a-story here. My point is only that Cortese obviously negotiates very hard (which is good) and that he should consider the player's career. If I was deciding which club to send my 10 year old promising player to then this sort of concern could be a deciding factor. Personally, Ox and his father forced through a move to leave the club that had given him everything. I'm glad he got shafted to be honest. Will encourage future players to stick with the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 Personally, Ox and his father forced through a move to leave the club that had given him everything. I'm glad he got shafted to be honest. Will encourage future players to stick with the club. how has he been shafted exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 What an unbelievable article. Serious, fundamental upheaval needed at Arsenal if large parts of that are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 Apart from the AOC bit , £55k a week to go home for Nicklas Bendtner ... wtf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/24/alex-oxlade-chamberlain-admits-frustration-at-arsenal-selection-policy-3557745/ Wonder if AOC actually knows the deal ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 I feel sorry for AoC if thats the case, if Wenger really has not been playing him just to avoid that clause that's really poor, i always wondered why he wasnt getting more game time there As far as i see Wenger has pretty much ruined a lot of careers at Arsenal, that club is going to implode shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 For AOC read Skacel and Rasiak in our Division 2 seasons Didn't we not play them because it would have triggered bonus payments to the clubs we bought them off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 For AOC read Skacel and Rasiak in our Division 2 seasons Didn't we not play them because it would have triggered bonus payments to the clubs we bought them off?? Similar to Bent at Villa I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringwood Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 So pay full price for a player that you then won't play for 77% of the available game time, nows theres being shrewd and being daft 10 miilion player but only available for 23% of the game time, blimey must be a game changer worth 40 million then, we got stung on the deal in that case ! Seems to good to be true that you can effectively limit the use of a player by contract terms and think it says more about Arsenal's thinking than Saints regarding player development, its Arsenal that are stiffling the players development , and it could be said that they don't have the confidence in the player to back the financial commitment to put him on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 that article showed about 5 games in the last 2 years where he came on as sub with around 20 mins to go. hardly news, really Counting does not appear to be your strong point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 Yet somehow no-one has come to the conclusion that we're doing the same thing with Guly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 For AOC read Skacel and Rasiak in our Division 2 seasons Didn't we not play them because it would have triggered bonus payments to the clubs we bought them off?? Not quite the same situation as when you're in financial crap and trying to cut all expenditure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 That (if true) is a wonderful story. That transfer would have to be the gift that keeps on giving. On the one hand, we got a serious amount of money for the transfer itself. Second, we'd get a decent sum every time he played a slice of the game. Thirdly, if they limit his game time then it sends a wonderful message to young players that Southampton and not Arsenal are the home of young first-team football (thus encouraging a new generation of players to come here instead of there) and lastly, if there is a sell-on clause then we get money even if they sell him on. All it would take to make it better would be for Cortese to request Arsenal loan him back and then (due to the fine print) tell them that Arsenal also have to pay Saints £10,000 if he plays more than 20 minutes for us too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 "All it would take to make it better would be for Cortese to request Arsenal loan him back and then (due to the fine print) tell them that Arsenal also have to pay Saints £10,000 if he plays more than 20 minutes for us too." Genuinely, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeintheslowlane Posted 20 August, 2013 Share Posted 20 August, 2013 I love it. It may not amount to much but it is "niggle money"...that irritating reminder that they don't hold all the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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